Lostpedia
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'''Arguments For'''
 
'''Arguments For'''
 
*At the end of this episode, a bewildered Jack gets rescued from the bombs by the Man in Black. If you look carefully, Jack now has a bleeding wound on the left side of his neck. When he awakens on 815 in "LA X Part 1", he gets up and goes to the bathroom, where he notices the same wound.
 
*At the end of this episode, a bewildered Jack gets rescued from the bombs by the Man in Black. If you look carefully, Jack now has a bleeding wound on the left side of his neck. When he awakens on 815 in "LA X Part 1", he gets up and goes to the bathroom, where he notices the same wound.
 
* Agreed. Thinking in linear terms, the FLT occurs AFTER the OT. A "reset" happens at the end of the OT (series finale) that transports the Losties to the Oceanic 815 flight in the FLT. However, there are other people (i.e. Richard, Ben, Widmore) who will be transported to other "times" in the FLT before the Oceanic 815 flight. Their actions leads to different circumstances (think Butterfly Effect) for the Losties in the FLT. In order for the "course correction" to stick, Desmond needs to make sure that the Losties in the FLT realize that the OT existed (for what reason - don't know yet).
   
   
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**Clare hasn't had her baby yet in the FST. That proves the two realities are not on the same timeline.
 
**Clare hasn't had her baby yet in the FST. That proves the two realities are not on the same timeline.
 
***This presumes the FST is reality. While this might be the case, this has not been proven.
 
***This presumes the FST is reality. While this might be the case, this has not been proven.
* Agreed. Thinking in linear terms, the FLT occurs AFTER the OT. A "reset" happens at the end of the OT (series finale) that transports the Losties to the Oceanic 815 flight in the FLT. However, there are other people (i.e. Richard, Ben, Widmore) who will be transported to other "times" in the FLT before the Oceanic 815 flight. Their actions leads to different circumstances (think Butterfly Effect) for the Losties in the FLT. In order for the "course correction" to stick, Desmond needs to make sure that the Losties in the FLT realize that the OT existed (for what reason - don't know yet).
 
   
 
* Guys dont forget that alternate sideline Ben (as well as others) were at some point on the island.. probably left at the mess before the bomb exploded
 
* Guys dont forget that alternate sideline Ben (as well as others) were at some point on the island.. probably left at the mess before the bomb exploded

Revision as of 19:35, 21 April 2010

Main Article Theories about
The Last Recruit
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The Last Recruit

The last recruit is Jin and Sun's baby- Kwon

    • Evidence? The baby was hardly mentioned in this episode, and not at all mentioned in the OT, just gently mentioned in the FST (and its not even born yet).
  • The last recruit is referring to Jack, as he is the last one left on the main island with MIB.
    • Plus, Jack is informed that he's now with MiB.


  • Jack is both "The" Last Recruit and "The" Candidate
    • The show has been Jack-centered since the pilot, this is the only obvious thing about Lost
    • Jacob shows Jack special attention, telling him he "has what it takes" and showing him the lighthouse
    • The MIB is obsessed with Jack
    • In Everybody Loves Hugo the MIB pays Jack all the attention when the camps merge
    • MIB has a special talk with Jack
    • All of the candidates escape on the boat but MIB is happy because he has Jack who is by far the most important
    • MIB has been trying to get Jack off the Island since White Rabbit because he knows Jack is "The" Candidate
    • Jack now believes he is "The" Candidate. He came to this realization following the Lighthouse and the dynamite on the Black Rock
    • Jack has transformed from the "man of science" to the "man of faith", resembling the real John Locke
    • Jack has the greatest sacrifice to make. All of the other characters have their temptation in both timelines (ex. the Kwon's have their baby in both, Sawyer is accepted as a good guy in both, Desmond has Penny in both, Sayid has/had Nadia in both etc.). Jack has to sacrifice his son who only exists in the flash sideways. Jacob's job is one for a solitary man, and by sacrificing his son Jack would be choosing a life of solitude on the island unlike anyone else who also have their loves in the OT
      • Locke would have to accept his own death in place of FST life. Ben would sacrifice his daughter who now only exists in the FST. There are other equal-greater sacrifices out there.
    • If it was already essentially decided that Jack was THE Candidate, Locke would not have been so concerned about him after the bombing. If Locke truly believed that Jack was THE Candidate, it would've been in his better interests to just let Jack die. The only reason he doesn't kill him (or any of the other Candidates) is because he can't, as stated by the rules. But letting Jack get blown to smithereens by Widmore would not be breaking the rules.
      • In stating that Jack is both "The" last recruit and "The" candidate I mean that he is the one who is most coveted by both sides in their battles for people's "souls". It is precisely because Jack is "The" candiate (i.e. Jacob's choice for replacement) that MIB is so very interested in turning him to the dark side. If MIB allowed Jack to die he would not be able to seduce Jack to darkness.
      • Jack is "The Candidate" to take either Jacob or MIB's place. All J and MIB know is that these people are possible replacements for them, once their morals have been tested extremely.
    • Jack is "The Candidate" to take MiB's place (not to replace Jacob) as Desmond has appeared to take Jacob's place in both the FST (giving people a small push in the right direction) and the OT (Desmond presumably talked Sayid out of killing him showing he has become just as persuasive as Jacob had been).
      • I am not sure Desmond DID talk Sayid out of shotting him. The previews for this episode showed sayid firing into the well
      • We have not yet had any indication that MiB needs or wants to be replaced. He wants to leave and has stated that he needs to leave with all the candidates. Jacob, as the cork holding MiB in, needs a replacement. Besides if there was anybody what would swap places with the MiB isn't widmore the more likely person?
      • I wanna say MIB, with only one candidate left, wants to make Jack take over his role. The candidates being Jacob's list is a lie. MIB can only make it out of the island if he manages to find a candidate to take HIS spot. Essentially the game being played was that MIB would get all those candidates to the island and knock them off, proving Jacob wrong and granting his freedom. Jacob saw MIB was taking the easy way out, so "touched" those "Numbers" candidates so that MIB couldn't kill them (ala Sawyer when the mysterious kid told MIB killing him was against the rules). It's why he wanted to round up all of them at once and basically force one to stay behind (especially someone like Jack, who, for some reason, wants to).
  • The Last Recruit is Claire, the final one to join Sawyer's little band.
    • Claire was the first to join the MiB - she said that she had been with him since everyone else left.
    • No. For what? A recruit for a group that just was formed in this episode? A group immediately losing one member, Jack? No, the last recruit is definitely Jack.
    • The last recruit is referring to Claire. I think most people are reading this episode wrong. Jack started the episode opposed to MIB and ended it opposed to MIB. He jumped off the boat not because he had been "turned" but because he disagreed about how to deal with what both he and Sawyer agree is an enemy. He specifically bases his decision to stay on the idea that it runs contrary to what MIB wants. Sawyer's group is considering flight, Jack is going for fight. Furthermore his sideways flash was pretty bland, and this season's titles tend to refer to both timelimes. Claire made the changes in this episode - She decided to go against MIB and get on the boat (despite Sawyer wanting her out and Jack being ambivilent), and she was the last to make this choice and get on the boat. She was also the last major character that Desmond had to go get in the sideways timeline. Hurley had been visited last episode, and the other characters were already on a collision course with each other (Sawyer had arrested Kate and was about to arrest Sayid, Sun knew who Locke was and was with Jin, and Jack was about the operate on Locke) but Claire was about to drift out of the picture, and Desmond had to go get her and his actions directly resulted in her meeting with Jack. Don't confuse Recruit with Candidate. Candidate has a specific meaning in the Lost lexicon, but recruit is just someone you need to sign on to your agenda.
    • I'm inclined to agree with this. Also 'love' is a big part of this series and maybe Claire maintaining her love for Aaron (even creating a proxy for him - however macabre) whilst in the midst of darkness has kept the 'infection' at bay and stopped it getting quite to her heart, allowing her to change sides.
  • The Last Recruit is Sayid. He is the only one who is still on MiB's side
    • We don't know for sure that Sayid is still on MiB's side. It is still unknown if what Desmond said from the well caused Sayid to change his mind.
    • Last Recruit seems like a poor choice of words for "only one remaining" and is more fitting of "last to change" or "last to agree". ^As said above he is likely working against MIB now (they wouldn't kill Desmond offscreen) and he has the least important sideways flash of all, at least Kate's had some exposition.
  • This episode really opened my eyes to the fact that Jack has tooken the place of Locke. He is now 100% confident that the island needs him, and isn't done with him yet. He believes in "Destiny." LIKE LOCKE!! Locke was going to replace Jacob for sure, but when MiB manipulated him to go back and get the others, he was able to check that candidate off the list. He now realizes that Jack is now the strong candidate, and he is going to try to turn him to the dark side. Try manipulating him as well
  • The last recruit is not Sayid or Claire. Claire pretty specifically stated that they sort of became followers of the MiB when they let him speak to them. As I mentioned elsewhere, Claire already admitted to having befriended the MiB since the other Losties left. Sayid was given very clear instructions on not letting the MiB speak to him, but he did. This negates most theories on who the last recruit is. Claire may be Sawyer's last recruit, or she may be playing double agent and trying to find ways to get the MiB off the island, who knows.
  • If Claire is Sawyer's last recruit doesn't that make her a possibility for being "The Last Recruit"? Why does last recruit have to come from the viewpoint of MIB? Couldn't it just as easily be the last person recruited to fight against MIB? She would be the last recruit (to the anti-MIB line of thinking) even considering Sayid, since MIB leaves the group to check on Sayid, which is what allows Jack and Co. to sneak off - so Sayid was turned first.
    • It doesn't have to be from the MiB's point of view - you're right. I was just operating under the assumption that this episode would follow of theme of every other episode in the season that the MiB is trying to build a team for himself. Structurally it doesn't make much sense to change this theme now, but it is a possibility. If Claire really was the last recruit, that can't mean anything good for Sayid.

Desmond's Master Enigma

You would be a fool to think that the battle that rages on the island isn't a war between black and white. good and evil that is. Syaid approaches Desmond with intention to kill but faces the stark reality that Desmond is in fact an embodiment of Jacob. In many ways this represents the relationship between black and white as the white always must win. Another instance in which we see this reality is with Walt a Vincent. Walt is taken by the others but Vincent is in fact an embodiment of Jacob. Walt never returns to the island, forever banished for the sins of his father. As Jack rises to the final plateau as the next Jacob he will no doubt require a visionary cunning man equivalent of Richard Alpert. That man is Desmond. Desmond Hume is the sole actor in a great series of events leading to the collapse of the secondary space dimension and the barrier to the devision Man in Black plans.

Desmond's plan

Assuming we believe the previous theory about how the FST characters start remembering the OT events if they experience an emotional momoment in their lives(near death experience, feeling of love, recognizing a stranger etc), we see that Desmond is "pushing" people so that they can remember the OT events:He runs over Locke so that he has a near death experience.

He pushes Claire so her meeting with her half brother for the first time ever could provoke some incidents from the OT. However, while that didn't succeed for Jack, in the end he was asked to operate on Locke, and discovered that the very man who he could fix was the paraplegic on his flight from Sydney. In essence, Desmond is now reuniting Oceanic survivors so that they can return to one single timeline by merging the two timelines now that they remember both.

Interestingly enough, Desmond's actions run hand in hand with philosopher David Hume's idenity theory. David Hume states that the self is nothing but a bundle of interconnected perceptions linked by relations of similarity and causality. Sound familiar to what Desmond Hume is trying to get the Oceanic 6 to realize? Not all the philosopher's names in the show are random.

Desmond

Desmond has become just as persuasive as MiB

  • It appears as if he was able to talk his way out of Sayid killing him. If Desmond was able to talk Sayid (who had been claimed) out of killing him; this shows that Desmond may be the next protector of the Island.
    • Sayid may have been turned to the Light.
    • This is further supported by Hurley innuendo about people always being capable of coming back from the dark side. -aeterno
  • He was able to convince Claire to see his lawyer.

Desmond appears to have taken Jacob's place in the FST. Just like Jacob with Jack, Desmond is giving people a small push in the right direction.

    • Jacob did not interfere with people on the island. That became Richard's job.
    • Desmond ran down Locke knocking him out of his wheelchair and over the car into the pavement, that was more than a push.
    • Desmond ran down Locke, knowing that it wouldn't kill him, but that he would be rushed to the hospital and greeted by the best spinal surgeon around, Jack. Desmond obviously knows something that none of the rest know, so he is trying to do what he can to make them see it, or steer them in the right direction. I suspect that because Desmond ran over Locke; Jack will not only save his life, but give him the ability to dance at his wedding.
  • Desmond took Jacob's place. MIB sent Sayid to kill him. Desmond did what Jacob had done to Richard. He gave Sayid immortality. So Sayid was replaced for Richard.

Desmond is not the candidate, he has a different role

  • We have been discussing the show as if there are two major roles to fill - Jacob and MIB. I posit that their is a third "super entity" that is represented by the child. While Jacob and the MIB represent the sides of good and evil, the boy representes the observer (and possibly judge) who bears witness as a third party to the battle of good versus evil. Desmond's destiny is to take over this role.
    • Desmond has become passive on the Island and just "goes with the flow" of whoever is around (Widmore, Sayid, MIB). He can question people (like Sayid) and this can have dramatic effect, but ultimately he does not physically intervene but just bears witness as each individual struggles between choosing good or evil.
  • Desmond is the next Jacob. He is pushing people just as Jacob did. Jack will be the new Richard; his spirit has been broken and is learning to follow orders.
  • Sorry guys... Is Desmond a candidate?
  • Desmond is going to be the replacement for Richard as advisor to the new Jacob.
    • Evidence - Along with Richard, Desmond is the only one who we have not seen age since we first saw him in the season 2 premiere "Man of Sciance, Man of Faith".
    • Evidence - Desmond arrived on the island in the same fashion as Richard did, shipwrecking on the island.

What Sayid Did With Desmond

  • Sayid let Desmond live because Desmond was able to talk Sayid out of killing him.
  • Sayid let Desmond live because he realizes that he cannot gain Nadia love or respect by hurting people. Sayid has somewhat "turned to the light" but will continue to seek redemption through killing people (like shooting childhood Ben) because violence is the only thing he knows.
  • Violence is not the only thing Sayid knows.He is also good at electronics. And he is one of the most friendly people to his friends. He never hesitated to help his friends. He shot little Ben because he wanted prevent him to be Henry Gale.
    • The only evidence (aside from Sayid's testimony to Locke) that supports the notion that Sayid actually did shoot Desmond is that the Promo clip for The Last Recruit showed Sayid firing his gun while standing above the well. Whether or not the scene was simply modified for the purpose of the promo to show him firing and thereby building suspense is not known at this point.
      • If you look closely at the preview clip, there is a gunshot sound and what I recall as being a fairly poor gunshot visual effect added over top. It stood out to me because I don't recall seeing any recoil. Maybe someone with access to the clip can verify, but I rememember thinking at the time that it was faked (fairly poorly) and was intended as you said, to build suspense. Good call.--HOTDON 15:53, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
        • I verified this last night because I had the same conclusion. Sayid did not fire the gun, the ABC promo department did. It was bogus and misleading.
  • Not only did Sayid not kill Desmond, but he had a moment of revalation when he realized that he bluffed MIB and MIB believed him. Sayid realizes MIB can be tricked and lied to and smiles with satisfaction because knowing this will allow him to help defeat MIB for an ultimate redemption (what sayid has always longed for).
  • Sayid also knows that the MIB is afraid of Desmond because when ask if he killed desmond he said yes and go check for yourself and the MIB didn't.
  • No one is dead on LOST unless they show them dying. Sayid did not kill Desmond.
    • Don't forget about Isabelle, her death was never shown.
      • Isabella's death was shown back in 1867 after Richard got home with the medicine.
  • Sayid did not kill Desmond. Hurley's Anakin reference is foreshadowing Sayid's return from the Dark Side.

Locke's Surgery FST

  • Upon seeing the x-ray, Jack knows he can fix Locke's back so Locke can walk again. Jack believes in miracles and has become a Man of Faith.
  • Jack has seen this kind of surgery before, involving a dural sac, which is the surgery he told Kate about, the same surgery right before he met Jacob. So he knows he can handle it, presumably by counting to 5.
    • Do we know that Jack ever performed the dural sac surgery on the girl in the FST?
      • They have not specifically said - however when he told Kate about it he said it was one of his first (or his first?) surgeries by himself. Take that for what it's worth in the FST, Jack is still a surgeon so maybe his first few surgeries and learning experiences were the same.
  • At the moment that Jack cuts into Locke's spine (or at the moment that Jack experiences his crisis moment with thinking that Locke is going to die, like he did in the original timeline), all of the candidates will be present in the hospital, thanks to Desmond. Jack's dad won't be there, so he'll have to pull himself through it. At this moment, the two timelines will merge, also due to the events taking place on island. Desmond will be involved in this as well, creating the necessary warp in the magnetic properties of the island with Widmore.
    • I don't remember Hurley and Sayid being at the hospital, but they are candidates.
    • Claire isn't at the hospital, nor is Kate (I forgot exactly if they were candidates)

Jack died like Claire did in "The Shape of Things to Come"

Jack died because of the bomb. Like Sayid he resurrects. Similar was seen before with Claire. And she is claimed. Plus, Flocke's words towards him seem to point out that he has been claimed too, meaning that he died.

  • Jack never seemed to lose consciousness, and if he did, it was only for a moment. If he re-awakened AFTER Locke touched him then maybe that would support this, but he was awake and watched Locke walk up to him.
    • Sayid and eventually Claire didn't needed to be touched. So why should Jack needed to be touched?
      • Claire could have been touched by MiB in the body of Charlie. When Sawyer goes to rescue her from the destroyed house, she asks for Charlie.
      • Still, Jack arguably never ever lost consciousness, and if he did, it was only for a moment. Claire at least was motionless and under a pile of broken house for a while before getting pulled out by Sawyer, and Sayid was legit dead for a LONG time. Jack never seemed dead even for a moment.
    • It was never confirmed that Claire died in The Shape of Things to Come.
      • Thats why there is an "eventually" in Front of Claire ;)

What Sun Meant

Sun was in a near-death state while being rushed to the hospital and was therefore flashing between timelines. She thought for a moment that Locke in the FST was "Locke" from the OT.

  • This would explain Juliet's words: "It Worked". She was having flashes of the FST moments before dieing, while Sun experienced the oposite.
  • Perhaps Locke *is* the MIB in the FST?
  • This is supported way back when Locke and Jack talk in missing items area of the FST. Locke tells Jack that his father's body is not equivalent to where he really IS. This could have been a hint that the real John isn't in John's body.
    • In addition we still don't know for sure what Locke had been doing in Australia.
      • Yes we do, he went there for the business trip, skipped all his business stuff and tried to do the walkabout and was rejected.

The Flash-Sideways Occurs AFTER What We Are Seeing on the Island Now

Arguments For

  • At the end of this episode, a bewildered Jack gets rescued from the bombs by the Man in Black. If you look carefully, Jack now has a bleeding wound on the left side of his neck. When he awakens on 815 in "LA X Part 1", he gets up and goes to the bathroom, where he notices the same wound.
  • Agreed. Thinking in linear terms, the FLT occurs AFTER the OT. A "reset" happens at the end of the OT (series finale) that transports the Losties to the Oceanic 815 flight in the FLT. However, there are other people (i.e. Richard, Ben, Widmore) who will be transported to other "times" in the FLT before the Oceanic 815 flight. Their actions leads to different circumstances (think Butterfly Effect) for the Losties in the FLT. In order for the "course correction" to stick, Desmond needs to make sure that the Losties in the FLT realize that the OT existed (for what reason - don't know yet).


Arguments Against

  • This does not explain the time discrepancy between the FST and OT. 815 was 3+ years before the events currently going on in the OT. If the reset transported everyone to 815 in the FST, it would be in the past. There is no evidence that the 815 of the FST takes place in the future.
  • Does this mean to say that Jack's mom is lying about his appendix scar? And that he has a child he didn't know about originally? Or that Charlie never died? The FST may occur after but definitely not in a "straight" sort of timeline sense.
    • Haven't thought that far ahead, but one thing I speculated was that the entire FST is some sort of collective subconscious / dream world, and thus anything someone having little/nothing to do with the island says is and example of unreliable narration - the 815ers just "coming up" with explanations for that which they cannot explain.
    • Clare hasn't had her baby yet in the FST. That proves the two realities are not on the same timeline.
      • This presumes the FST is reality. While this might be the case, this has not been proven.
  • Guys dont forget that alternate sideline Ben (as well as others) were at some point on the island.. probably left at the mess before the bomb exploded

The Flash-Sideways has been running alongside the OT all along

  • Everyone always looks at the major events when debating the point that the timelines split (the Incident, failsafe, turning the wheel), but what if it started when Oceanic 815 crashed? From the producers point of view it would be great since people dont usually turn to the early episodes of the show for answers.
    • The timelines could not have split around the crash. Benjamin Linus, who lived on the island for most of his life in the OT, didn't stay on the island in FST. Most of the characters in the FST have major deviations from their OT counterparts pre-crash. Sawyer and Miles are cops, Faraday is a musician, Desmond never met Penny, etc. This suggests that the two timelines diverged at an earlier point, if they do have a convergence point at all.
  • From the very beginning they said "two players, two SIDES, one is light, one is dark..." The two SIDES are the OT and the FST. So what if the Island is Jacob's "board" and the FST is MIB's "board."
  • When Jacob and MIB bring people to the island, they are trying to prove a point to eachother. I thought maybe Jacob's argument was that if you took technology out of the picture (they always said he hated it), took all outside influences out of the picture, and made people face their biggest issue and over come it, they could be good. Who knows what the exact argument is, but either way they would need some other "simulation" to have something to compare it to.
  • The function of the lighthouse could be to "check the results." People suggested that the lighthouse was a "what if simulator," and they would be partially right, except its not a simulation, but an alternate universe.
  • This would make sense if they were arguing what the actions of the Losties would be, or what choices they would make. If they were running side by side, you would have seen Jack save Charlie on the island, and Jack saving Charlie on 815 (same result). You would see Ben sacrifice Alex to save himself, and Ben sacrifice a job to Save Alex in the FST (different result). Who knows how they compare these results, what the desired results are, and what is being argued, but this would make sense.
  • Also, when you see the LOST promos and they show the title against the backdrop of the island...the reflection of the island into the water is a city skyline...not the trees from the island. I noticed this way back when. Perhaps this is representing the two timelines occuring at the same time.
  • This could explain why Locke couldn't talk after Desmond turned the failsafe key. Perhaps his FST self was bleeding through due to an electromagnetic anomaly and at that point Desmond had just hit him with his car. It just seemed eerily familiar when Locke made that face and couldn't speak at the end of last week's episode. Also, Sun not being able to speak English would support this, since we now know that the FST/OT can "bleed" into eachother.