- Anyone else think it would be a good idea to split the characters into "characters stranded on the island", "characters of the lost experience", "DHARMA initiative characters" and "the others". Instead of the main/minor division we've got going at the moment? --Peephole 02:16, 14 June 2006 (PDT)
- We've removed the characters that are not from the creators of Lost (TPTB), such as the ABC marketing department's abc.com diary, and the novelizations. When we get a chance, we can make a separate nav for the characters that don't have a nav yet (the noveliztation characters should already have a nav). -- 16:44, 2 October 2007 (PDT)
- If editor strongly post rationales to feel otherwise, we can add a separate "deuterocanon passengers" section to this nav-minor. -- 20:54, 2 October 2007 (PDT)
Should this template be renamed Supporting Characters? Just because they aren't top-billed doesn't necessarily mean that they play a minor role in the story. --Elvis 19:58, 14 June 2006 (PDT)
- I moved Nancy, Eli, Jim, Male Tailie, Blond guy, Curly-haired guy, German tailender out of the category "Joined the Others." In fact, only Nancy and Male Tailie actually have a face directly associated with their character, and the rest were only mentioned in dialog. Nancy and Male Tailie have never been seen as part of the Others here (Nancy is not the same as #10, as some fans mistakenly claimed). The other 5 are not associated with a face, so it is possible they are #8 and #9, it is also possible they are not. There are numerous other tailies (extras) who disappeared during the course of "the Other 48 Days" that do not have articles (because they were not mentioned in dialog). Therefore it is fan speculation to add these to "joined the Others", and therefore they were removed fromt his section. Admittedly it is also speculation to add them to "deceased", so I added the tag "presumed deceased", since it seems cumbersome to create a new category "Fate Unknown", although that remains an option. -- 12:13, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
- Because the entire ambiguity results from the fact that these characters are actually background extras, and therefore not fully considered for their own sake in the creation of the storyline, it might be more accurate and meaningful to create a new section entitled "Background" for this table. -- 12:16, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
- Alternatively, storyline details (such as currently alive, off-island, on-island, deceased, others, etc.) should be removed entirely from this template. A template's purpose should be navigation, and not detailing information that belongs in the articles. In that case the categories might be changed to: Main, Prominent, Minor, Expanded Universe. Therefore we avoid issues of storyline (i.e. is curly haired an other or deceased or MIA?; is Sonya a crash victim or alive but unseen or an extra?, etc.). These storyline issues belong in the article (as facts, unanswered questions, or items in the theory tab) but do not belong in the template which serves to obscure navigation. Doing it otherwise and consistently based on facts rather than 'fan speculation' seems impossible to me. If we wish to track the "current condition" in the most recent narrative of all main and minor characters (assuming what we have been calling "flash forwards" to be "current", a fact that may or may not hold for Seasons 5 and 6), then it should be done in a separate article, similar to character appearances. -- 18:21, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
- Furthermore, adding storyline issues into a navigation template has allowed main characters to creep in, and these belong in Template:Nav-SurvivorsMain. Currently however, these two navigations are redundant, and often appear in the same article. -- 18:23, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
COMMENT: Seriously, Nancy, Eli, Jim, Male Tailie, Blond guy, Curly-haired guy, and German tailender should be considered a part of the Others. So what if they aren't seen with the background Others cast. Maybe the actors are unavailable, or the producers don't want them seen so it adds to the mystery. It is more than safe to assume they are apart of the Others. They disappeared when the Others came in The Other 48 Days, and Ana Lucia claimed that the Others captured 9 people the second day. THat more than explains the disappearance of these characters and is valid verification that they are apart of the Others. --20:37, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
Although it is true that no actor can be connected with the characters of Jim, Eli and Nancy, as well as the blond, curly-haired and German guys, I'd say it's secured that they have joined the others.
From the transcript of The Other 48 Days:
- Nathan: Look, 3 of the people are missing -- the blond guy, the curly-haired guy, and the German who was helping us with the injured.
- Voice: They took Jim and Eli!
- Libby: Nancy's gone. They're gone.
IMO, that would be sufficient info to regard them as having (unwillingly or by choice) joined the Others - especially since we know that the other tailies who was taken (Zach, Emma and Cindy) have joined them. Pierre80 06:08, 12 June 2008 (PDT)
- That's exactly the problem. If you use the words "assume" or phrase "IMO" it's your (fan) speculation. Undoing. Will change the format of the template so it's a non-issue. If the dialog said, "Nancy joined the Others", then things would be different; besides more Others were "taken" in that episode than the ones that have articles. This level of discussion belongs in the tail section article and talk page, not the nav template.-- 19:56, 12 June 2008 (PDT)
- OK, storyline elements were removed from the template, other than identification of middle section vs. tailsection-- this distinction too may be removed from the template too in the future. Only descriptive elements classifying the characters into types (unseen, background uncredited, credited by ABC Medianet, or expanded universe) are used instead. Arguments and discussions about storyline level items do not belong in the template. The template is only to be used for navigation. Also the template was redundant with Template:Nav-SurvivorsMain, so those items were removed. In this manner we may avoid unproductive discussions what amount to be differences in fan speculation. -- 20:25, 12 June 2008 (PDT)
- Great change (although several character were listed in the wrong box). Pierre80
- Thanks for your edits Pierre80. -- 12:54, 16 June 2008 (PDT)
This template should be merged with the Oceanic Six template and include main crash survivors (like it did before). There should by ONE all inclusive template that includes ALL the survivors (deuterocanonical, expanded universe, unknown, main, background, etc). This makes it much more easier to navigate through all the survivors and looks better to have all the survivors in one template. --18:07, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
- No, you still haven't addressed why the main characters were removed: 1) This is a MINOR survivors template (see template title), and 2) Main characters would be redundant with Template:Nav-SurvivorsMain. On the point of redundancy, we might remove the use of some templates on the articles for main characters, as they are often overloaded with templates. For example we don't need a template for every plot point, such as the Oceanic 6. -- 20:49, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
Use a New Template
I think that this new template should be used instead of Template:Nav-Minor. It's MUCH less confusing and is more inclusive. It includes the prominent survivors as well. There should be ONE all inclusive template to include ALL the survivors of Flight 815. -- 13:54, 22 June 2008 (PDT)
Seth Norris has been creditted, hasn't he? Not as Seth Norris, but he was in the very first episode. Why is he in the unseen/uncredited row? Crash815 21:32, 5 September 2008 (PDT)
- Explain? If he is credited, there should be a listing for the character & actor name in the ABC Medianet press release for the episode. These should be reflected in the Lostpedia infoboxes for each article (only ABC Medianet-credited actors should appear in the infoboxes). Otherwise the appearance is considered "uncredited". -- 15:39, 8 September 2008 (PDT)
- oh the pilot. Yes, he is clearly credited by ABC Medianet, and the character is intended to be the same in the storyline (i.e., was later given a name). Will move to credited. -- 15:41, 8 September 2008 (PDT)
Should the dead characters (,i.e. Doug, Mars, Gary, Joanna, etc) be in itallics? Isn't that how most of the navigation templates go? Crash815 21:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, I added italics. -- 23:27, 7 January 2009 (UTC)