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Renaming discussion 2007

As Ben's page isn't "Benjamin Linus (Henry Gale)", Tom's page's title shouldn't include his "alias". That's why I added a section to the Others' infobox where you can write their alias. I think To'm page should be "Tom (Other)".  ODK Talk   Sandbox 14:24, 31 January 2007 (PST)

  • Agree-Mr.Leaf 14:35, 31 January 2007 (PST)
  • Word! (I agree) --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:36, 31 January 2007 (PST)
  • Agree--lewisg 14:39, 31 January 2007 (PST)
  • Agree--Princess Dharma (banned)
  • Disagree Based on Santa's comments below. --Princess Dharma (banned) 09:03, 6 February 2007 (PST)
  • Disagree - The parenthetical is not intended as an alias; rather it is there as a disambiguation from other incidences of "Tom". Note that other articles with a different history of names have been simplified, e.g. "Persephone" became "Rachel Blake (Persephone)", which was then subject to the argument above, and renamed to "Rachel Blake". However since (Mr. Friendly) is intended to function as a disambiguation, your argument that "an alias is not necessary in an article title" is true, but not applicable here. If you provide another argument that 1) a disambiguation is not necessary (for example if we discover his last name), or 2) a different disambiguation is preferable, then I will reconsider my opinion. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  20:55, 1 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree - Comedy240 11:32 3 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree--Gonzalo84 08:59, 6 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree -- This title should be updated. "Mr. Friendly" doesn't refer to the story. Obi-Dan Kenobi's suggestion of "Tom (Other)" is better than the current title. But my first choice would be "Tom", because that is how the character is currently known in the story and a parenthetical is not appropriate in this case because there exists no other article with the same title "Tom". (Articles that merely have a word in common as part of longer titles don't have the same title.) -- Cheers 10:21, 6 February 2007 (PST)
  • Disagree - It should stay as-is until we know his true name. Mr. Friendly is the production name for the character and when the character was introduced he was listed in press releases as "Mr. Friendly". Current press releases name him as "Mr. Friendly/Tom". --   Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 15:11, 6 February 2007 (PST)
  • Disagree - People who started watching the show late deserve to be able to find articles too. -BearDog 15:17, 6 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree - People can still type "Mr. Friendly" into the search box and are redirected to this article. Also, as he is never addressed as "Mr. Friendly" on the show, why would new viewers be typing that into the search box anyway? I highly doubt they would actually seek out ABCMedianet press releases from a year ago...ShadowUltra 16:34, 7 February 2007 (PST)
  • I don't know if your argument satisfies the case of using "Other" vs. "Mr. Friendly" for the following reasons: 1) New users will type in "Tom" which redirects to this page. 2) Any users who somehow happen onto Tom (disambiguation) will see "Others" noted in the disambig line. 3) Note also that we have precedence for using official names, such as Patchy, which is not a name used in an episode. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  16:47, 7 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree: for the reasons mentioned way above by Obi. Although I quite agree with Santa that it is successfully doable the other way around, IMHO Tom (Mr. Friendly) will remain a misleading factor to new Lost fans or less aware ones, who might very much belief that this is a nick that was actually used on the show events. Given that I'm a post-season 1 fan, I recall myself falling for that at my early days with the show because of this article's label.-- 01:58, 11 February 2007 (PST)
  • Agree: My reasoning is a little bit different. I believe "Mr. Friendly" was just a nickname given in the American podcasts, and was primarily a US based fan name. So if the argument to keep Mr. Friendly in the parentheses was more so that international viewers behind S2 finale could find the page, not sure if it would make sense, because I suspect they are not even that aware of the fan name (and they can still find it with redirects if they are). Unfortunately, we can't really cater to the international crowd that doesn't stay up to date anyway, as per the spoiler policy, LP is updated for US show dates. Also, if they are confused about where to find this guy, they can go to Others and see the thumbnail gallery to know where to find his page. --PandoraX 04:30, 11 February 2007 (PST)
  • I see little difference between calling him Tom (other) and Tom (Mr. Friendly). Both are titles of disambiguation, and I prefer the status quo since that is how the character is listed in press releases.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 10:30, 15 February 2007 (PST)

So, right now there are 9 “agree” and 4 “disagree”. I basically agree with the new reasons Nomad and Pandora brought up, and it seems that there are enough reasons to change. Although I understand Santa's reasons, I think we should follow the format that is being used in Jason (Other) and Adam (Other)'s articles.  ODK Talk   Sandbox 10:55, 17 February 2007 (PST)

  • Remember these are not votes, these are discussions. The summary of arguments include:
  • Agree:
    1. Consistency with other articles on Others with parenthetical disambigs (e.g. Adam (Other))
    2. Post-season 1 consistency
    3. Is not known as a name internationally
  • Disagree:
    1. Official name by the creators of Lost (e.g. similar to Patchy)
    2. Functions fine as a disambiguation (i.e. it's not that an alias is tacked on), and the listing on the disambiguation page reads "one of the "Others"", which will cover users for whom "Mr. Friendly" alone is insufficient do disambiguate.
  • Some debunked points:
    1. Search box terms are irrelevant because of existing redirects
    2. Agreed that aliases do not, in themselves, belong in article titles (but here the alias serves as a disambig).
Feel free to edit this summary outline.
Agree, but with Santa's note above --Blueeagleislander 00:59, 19 February 2007 (PST)
Agree: "Use noncanon nicknames only as a last resort, when canon names are not known" - taken from MOS. It does say, "If the character goes by a very common nickname, maintain it in quotes (")", but (Mr. Friendly) is neither a very common nickname, nor is it in quotes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Triptolemus (talkcontribs) .
Keep in mind that the MOS is a proposed policy and referred to the use of quotes as a middle name, such as Hugo "Hurley" Reyes. When the article title is used for disambiguation the general practice here is to put it in parentheses.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 15:15, 21 February 2007 (PST)
Agree The name Mr. Friendly is getting too old. --James W. 11:10, 23 February 2007 (PST)
Agree - No one calls him Mr. Friendly any more. It should just be added to the trivia section and the article renamed. -Chris[dt7] 11:10, 24 February 2007 (PST)
Agree Dt7 has a point no one calls him that. BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 14:44, 2 March 2007 (PST)
Agree as no one calls him it --Nintyplayer 14:51, 2 March 2007 (PST)
Agree and make Mr. Friendly as a redirect. --User:Jakovexc0
Agree - I have never heard him referred to as "Mr.Friendly" ever since we found out his real name. The nickname is probably outdated and obsolete, --Gateboy42 14:50, 9 March 2007 (PST)
Agree Wasn't Mr. Friendly just a production name anyway? It used to bug the crap outta me when I saw the name on cast listings and was left wondering who the hell it was. --Goodwin's Ghost 16:38, 11 March 2007 (PDT)
Agree - His name is Tom... Mr. Friendly was just a nickname the writing staff made up for him before they gave him his real name in last year's finale. "Mr. Friendly" was NEVER used in an episode.--Catalanowned 22:48, 15 March 2007
Agree We all know that he is one of the others and it don't need to be said in the articles name. And as someone else said, make mr Friendly as an redirect.--Wilbraham Williams 09:35, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

(PDT)

Agree It's a shame we never found out his surname. But I think Tom is the correct name for this page.--Baker1000 16:37, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
Agree Tabula rasa 19:15, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

Page-move to correct title: Tom

There's 0 reason to have Tom redirect to Tom (Other); the reverse should be the case. We don't have Benjamin Linus named Benjamin Linus (Other), do we? We only use parenthetical disambiguation when an article isn't the primary topic; thus, for example, we only have Adam (Other) because Adam's too minor of a character to outshine the many other Adams listed at our disambiguation page, Adam. If Tom were a disambiguation page, we'd be justified in our current title; but since it simply redirects here, due to Tom's primary importance, we should go with the simplest title: just Tom. -Silence 02:12, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

Whilst I don't agree with the forceful tone of this statement, I agree that this should be on the Tom page. We don't need to call him "Tom (Other)". There is a disambiguation link at the top. Kind of a redundant addition, that "Other" bit  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:18, 18 July 2007 (PDT)
I apologize if I seemed forceful. It's hard to convey calmness on the Internet, and I was trying to be concise since some of my recent posts have been a tad overlong. ^^; -Silence 04:21, 18 July 2007 (PDT)

Own Nav Template

I believe Tom needs his own Nav template. Having so many feature on the bottom looks terrible, and seeing how important the character is (Only Other to appear in every Season of the show) I believe he should have his own navigation. Thoughts? -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  05:54, 21 March 2008 (PDT)

I agree. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  09:43, 21 March 2008 (PDT)

"gay member of the Others"

Doesn't it seem a bit much to have Tom's character suddenly be defined as the "gay member of the Others" as his bio now puts it? His sexual preference was handled in such an understated way on the show that it seems weird to foreground it like that here.--Timmythegreek 08:14, 25 March 2008 (PDT)

Is Tom's sexual orientation important to the plot? Of course, he is dead, but the revelation may lead to something else in a flashback/flashforward yet to come. Otherwise, were the producers only pandering to the gay community?--Gaarmyvet 09:46, 27 April 2008 (PDT)

Pandering to the gay community? Come on. Presumably they were just being realistic. Statistically it would be highly improbable to have no gay characters.--TechNic|talk|conts 16:00, 7 May 2008 (PDT)

Bearded man

Why does it say "For the bearded man in "Eggtown", see Bearded man" at the top of the page? Do we really need to to disambiguate the two? Seems particularly unnecessary given that the bearded man was only onscreen for a matter of seconds and is a fairly inconsequential character.--TechNic|talk|conts 23:58, 6 April 2008 (PDT)

Rename

(to Tom Friendly)

The enhanced version of Meet Kevin Johnson refers to him as "Tom Friendly, an Other". Since the enhanced episodes are actually appearing to be part of canon (see here), I suggest to rename the article for the same reason as Goodwin Stanhope. Malachi 03:01, 18 April 2008 (PDT)

This shouldn't need concensus to Rename because it's official now, as per Malachi. Changed first line with cleanup to reflect same. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 10:12, 19 April 2008 (PDT) Will go with majority as compromise, reserving the right to say "I told you so" ;) -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 09:49, 24 April 2008 (PDT) And I TOLD YOU SO!!!!! :P :) ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 13:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Change to Tom Friendly. --Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
No way, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And this article is wrong, the producers said the popups were like "cliff notes", they never said they are canon. --Minderbinder 10:48, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
But Cliff Notes are considered an authoritative source for any given subject. By referring to the enhanced captions as such, they give credibility to them. Now if Cliff Notes were ever considered to be unreliable, then that would be a different matter. In fact, the main criticism of them is that they are so comprehensive that it means students don't have to read the source materials.--TechNic|talk|conts 10:59, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Are they?
I just don't consider that a definitive enough statement. If they want us to treat them as canon, they can come out and say that they consider them canon. --Minderbinder 11:05, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Well that would help wouldn't it? But they were asked directly about them and not only did they choose to compare them to a well respected study guide, but also made no comments to suggest their content was in any way questionable.--TechNic|talk|conts 11:11, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
That's all well and good, but the fact remains that they didn't come out and say they are canon. --Minderbinder 11:17, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
strong disagree - Even if he was called Tom Friendly in the enhanced episodes, we have no way to know if this was meant to be an actual name or simply a reference to the many times previously he had been called "Mr. Friendly" by various people. It sounds too silly to take seriously. Dharmatel4 11:22, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
It may sound silly, but the Exec. Producer is called Bender! And I had teachers called Mr. Brownsword and Ms. Wigglesworth. Just because it sound weird, doesn't mean it can't be so. Furthermore, we don't about about his background yet. Many cultures take their 'surnames' from character traits or occupation etc so there is a possibility that if he is an Island native, his name was bestowed on him by his community.--TechNic|talk|conts 11:38, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Sorry for the cross post, but I think this would be better addressed on enhanced, or better still on canon, rather than on various article across LP. Cliff Notes = study guide = canon. Otherwise, we are falsely accusing the producers of promoting and supporting error, and I don't think any of us wants to do that. Could we pick this discussion up on one of those, rather than on separate articles? As for the information specific to Friendly, it was used twice three times in the same episode in the popups. I don't see how clearer they could have made the point: "Mr. Friendly is staying at the Hotel Earle"; "Friendly will soon return to the island where he will be shot and killed by Sawyer", and finally the most convincing, "This is Tom Friendly, an Other and the man who kidnapped Walt from the raft." -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 13:34, 22 April 2008 (PDT)

"Cliff Notes = study guide = canon" That's your assumption, nothing more. --Minderbinder 13:35, 22 April 2008 (PDT)

  • Another reference: ABC.com—Dave Campbell, ABC writer's blog "Tom Friendly" [1] ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 13:40, 22 April 2008 (PDT) Mindbender, I'll be happy to discuss my "assumption" on canon, where the rest of the discussion is located. Thanks 13:42, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
While that's on the ABC website, it says that Dave Campbell is a freelance writer. He doesn't seem to be involved with the production of the show. --Minderbinder 13:54, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Change. There's no way they'd let that one slip through. They liked the nickname and probably just said, "Oh, whatever. Let it be his last name." I'd say other than word of mouth from TPTB, you aren't going to get something much more definitive than what we saw in the Enhanced episode. Then again, the same episode's claim about the timing of Michael's flashback has many of us scratching our heads about how closely these are filtered. There was also a gaffe in the Enhanced text of "Through the Looking Glass" that said it had been 91 days since the Losties had heard Rousseau's message (assuming this happened the day of the crash) when what it meant was it had been 91 days since the crash. I do however feel for some reason that names and places given in the Enhanced text are more authoritative, and carefully monitored, than the Day # stuff. Hmph. --Castaway815 15:56, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Comment: Actually, the enhanced text said "And based on the iteration count in the tower/the survivors have been on the island/for 91 days", which doesn't say it's been 91 days since they heard Rousseau's message. If the difference in the iteration from day 2 to day 91 is correct at 90, adding the first day for total of 91 days isn't incorrect. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 22:28, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Touche. Your correction points in the direction of canonicity with regard to the Enhanced episodes. --Castaway815 08:38, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Absolutely not: This is one of the most ridiculous and stupid things I've heard so far thanks to these non-canon, created during the writers strike TV shows  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:50, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

What is ridiculous about it? That Tom's last name is "Friendly"? Where was the outcry when the "Goodwin" article was renamed "Goodwin Stanhope" based on the exact same premise? And to your point below, Lostpedia is made by the fans. The Enhanced episodes were made by the company that makes LOST. Add that point to TPTB's point that the Enhanced episodes serve as show Cliff Notes, and I think you can only come to one conclusion about the accuracy of the information contained in the pop-ups. The only time it's struck me as grossly inaccurate (or somehow misleading) is when we saw the comment about Michael having been off the island for 2 weeks. --Castaway815 08:38, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
The outcry is at Talk:Goodwin_Stanhope#New_Rename_Strawpoll, did you bother to look there? --Minderbinder 08:48, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
All kinds of ridiculousness. We've met Goodwin's wife, whose surname was "Stanhope" so there is at least valid justification for it. I didn't realise the Enhanced episodes were made by Bad Robot Productions, I could've sworn they were made by Met|Hodder, who have been commissioned by ABC to make it and not the shows "powers that be". Cliffs Notes themselves aren't always accurate either. There is no conclusive proof from TPTB that Tom's surname is "Friendly" and until it is confirmed we should always err on the side of caution.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  03:05, 24 April 2008 (PDT)
I must have missed it as I passed "Act-Like-A-Jerk Alley." Oh, bother! My point was that if it was OK for that article, it's OK for this one. If not, then they should both be cropped to first name only.  :) --Castaway815 09:55, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
Its easier to assume that the wife of a character would share his surname, than a third party company hired by ABC during the writers strike being given access to the writers and their work during strike conditions  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  03:05, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Disagree on the rename because the episodes are not confirmed as canon. For more on this, please see Talk:Canon. Jimbo the tubby 09:30, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Comment. I find it funny there is argument over whether to include something shown on the screen in the enhancements, but Talk:Steve_Jenkins#Rename Steve retains the last name Jenkins based on something which never made it into the episode. *sighs* -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 10:26, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Taken out of context. Steve Jenkins is mentioned in a shooting script for Lost, written and approved by TPTB. Tom Friendly was, once again, and I'm getting sick of having to repeat myself... Mentioned on an enhanced episode, created during the writers strike, and created by a third party company without any contact with TPTB.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:47, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
It's not that anyone doesn't understand your point, some just disagree about the necessity finding an intimate connection between this public naming of Tom as "Tom Friendly" and Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. The "Tom Friendly" argument is certainly based on inference from the "Cliff Notes" comment, combined with what we read in those "Cliff Notes." It's not an outrageous thought process, nor is it "stupid" as you so gently put it. Some just do not agree that we need to hear this information from TPTB for it to be true, and feel that the mention of the name on the Enhanced episode, taken in conjunction with the recent video podcast, is enough to justify the change. It's not like the world will come to an end if we find out his last name was actually "Smith" two years from now. --Castaway815 09:41, 25 April 2008 (PDT)

Disagree There is a very clear difference between this and things like Colleen Pickett or Goodwin Stanhope. (Questioning Goodwin makes sense only because it sounds like a last name, but it has always been presented as his first name). Mr. Friendly was a fan nickname that passed into the vernacular. People aren't advocating changing Mikhail's last name to Patchy (despite knowing Mikhail's real last name) or Neil's last name to Frogurt. These are just nicknames. The Rachel Brennan, Colleen Pickett etc. are logical extrapolations of the facts at hand. Married couples tend to have the same last name and it serves us better to have the last name's when available as can be seen in the many disambiguation pages. Wikistoriographer 12:51, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

I suppose that makes sense for now, with the small quibble that "Mr. Friendly" was not a fan nickname, but a nickname among the writers. That gives it a little more legitimacy. --Castaway815 15:49, 28 April 2008 (PDT)

ABSOLUTELY NO - Tom Friendly? I don't think so. --CTS 18:21, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Do not rename: And I think consensus is against it. Personally, I think its a writer and fan nickname that can be mentioned in the article, but shouldn't be the article's actual name. Irregardless, people seem to agree with me, and this discussion has been on over a month and I'm putting the result as keep. --Nickb123 (Talk) 09:13, 6 May 2008 (PDT)

Friendly Tally

Official mention:

Disputed canon in two enhanced episodes

Tally: 7 podcast mentions (3 by Damon) and 6 disputed mentions. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 09:57, 3 May 2008 (PDT)

Just finally got a look at this. We know he's been called "Mr. Friendly" but only once here is he referred to as Tom Friendly, and thats in the Enhanced episodes.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  12:30, 28 May 2008 (PDT)

This "his name is Tom Friendly" argument demonstrates about as much common sense and critical thinking skills as calling Sayid "Capt. Jarrah" because Sawyer calls him "Captain A-rab". - Tvb 19:26, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

Comic-Con Video

  • In the video at Comic-Con, the following names were listed: "Gary Troup, Captain Seth Norris, Dr. Leslie Atrz, Neil "Frogurt", Roger Linus, Tom Friendly, Ethan Rom, Ana Lucia Cortez, Elizabeth "Libby" Smith, Nikki & Paolo, Karl Martin, Danielle Rousseau, Alex Rousseau, Shannon Rutherford, Boone Carlyle, Charlotte Lewis, Mr. Eko, Michael Dawson, Daniel Faraday, Charlie Pace." Notice that Libby and Karl are also given last names here as well. Nick2010 19:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support, Obviously. What a wasted opportunity to give Paulo and Eko official surnames as well though ... --LeoChris 21:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support If Libby and Karl's articles were renamed, then Tom's should be as well. Plus it doesn't make any sense to have Tom Friendly's article called just "Tom" when there are other characters with the name Tom, so this article should have been moved to Tom (Other) ages ago, but I digress. Now that we have a canon surname (at least as canon as "Libby Smith" or "Karl Martin", which everyone seems to have accepted already), I don't see how anyone can argue the point that his name isn't Tom Friendly, unless they're also suggesting that Libby and Karl's names are non-canon, in which case those two articles should be reverted as well (and I don't think anyone's making that claim, am I right?)--Numquam Periit Amor 03:39, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support It was in the video and Gregg Nations said something like "how do you know you don't already know [his last name]" on the fuselage, so unless we find a source refuting it I vote for renaming to "Tom Friendly". Nick2010 02:30, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting supportAs per the the Memorial Video. Whether the name sounds ludicrous or joke-like for some (or many) is irrelevant.--Gonzalo84 03:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support I was initially against the change to "Tom Friendly" on the grounds that it sounded silly. But after it was confirmed at Comic-Con, I have completely come around on the name. Still silly, yes, but now, silly and official. Marc604 15:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Question regarding removal of two points

Contrary to my understanding of LP consensus, Dharmatel4 removed my trivia edits and is insisting on consensus before they can be replaced for a dispute that supposedly arose after the fact. I'm looking for a compromise to avoid any more tension, so therefore, does anyone dispute the inclusion of the following trivia points? Note these are separate from the consensus needed to rename the article. :

  • "Friendly" was used three times in the enhanced captions of Meet Kevin Johnson:
    • "Mr. Friendly is staying at the Hotel Earle"
    • "Friendly will soon return to the island where he will be shot and killed by Sawyer"
    • "This is Tom Friendly, an Other and the man who kidnapped Walt from the raft."
      • In an April 17, 2008 conference call, the producers described the enhanced episodes as "cliff notes" for the show.

This compromise of my original wording does not state or indicate canonicity. I would also find it acceptable to exclude the three examples, especially as it would be closer to my original edit. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 01:13, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Whoa... Hold on there. We don't need consensus to remove content if we believe that it is not in the interests of the article... There is a duty on EVERY person to edit, and we don't need consensus on every edit. There is no need to be pedantic if you don't like what he has done. You raise a discussion. Individual edits don't need consensus but a disputed edit needs to be discussed.

Now, on with that... The Enhanced episodes are not canon. They were described as "cliff notes"... but then again, so could Lostpedia, and we have no connection with TPTB, like Met|Hodder's enhanced episodes don't.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:48, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

  • Sorry, but I think you missing what actually happened. The removal was not reasoned as not being in the interests of the article, but because it's under dispute, a supposed dispute which occured after my edits. Therefore, saying consensus needs to be sought after it's been blanked out, reverted, removed, your choice of words, whatever, is reversing what we discussed is the consensus proceedure. It smacks of one rule for one, and another rule for another. Regardless of canonicity for a moment, the edit stated before, and my suggested revision above also states, where it came from, an embedded footnote, if you will. Removing them before the conclusion of discussion which started after I made the edit is just wrong. Supporting it as I now need to achieve concensus to put it back in is equally wrong. That aside, does anyone have a specific objection to the above points in the article? -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 05:43, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
  • No. No problem with the content at all. Sorry I seem to have gotten things wrong there... You don't need consensus to edit an article, nor to put Lost Enhanced information on the article, as long as its clear that the canonicity is under dispute.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  07:29, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Lostpedia could be described as cliff notes for the show, but the difference is that we're the ones doing the describing in this point, and the producers were the ones doing the describing on the more relevent point, the enhanced episodes. Why is everyone so opposed to this? Just because Friendly seems like a silly last name? I had a high school English teacher named Schenck (pronounced "skank") but that was his real name. Furthermore, you can search U.S. Census records from 1990 and you will find that "Friendly" is a real last name (ranked #28,992 out of 88,799). Also, I seem to remember that Goodwin's last name being Stanhope was strongly disputed, but was decided (if not unanimously settled) due to information from an Enhanced episode. --- Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
  • Once again... The producers of the show were not involved in the production of The Enhanced episodes. The majority of them were created by Met|Hodder during the writers strike. The producers had nothing to do with the production of the content.
  • Once again, the producers of the show approved the content of the Enhanced episodes. I'm sure that if there was anything erroneous about these episodes' content, the producers would have pointed this out in the teleconference instead of showing wholehearted approval for them. -- Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
We could go for an even better example thats just as relevant here. The wetpaint Lost Wiki. That USED to be the official Lost wiki officially sanctioned by ABC, but NOT the producers, so any information placed on that, should that now be included as "canon"? The difference between Goodwin and Tom, is that the name Mr. Friendly has never been used in the show itself. The name Stanhope was used for Goodwin's wife, like Pickett was used for Danny, but not his wife (yet we gave his wife the name Pickett) so it can be assumed that they share their name... Mr. Friendly is the name the producers gave to Tom in the early days of his character, its never EVER been used in the show itself.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  07:29, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

I have no problem with putting in a trivia entry saying that the enhanced episodes give his full name as Tom Friendly, but it must be pointed out that this information is from the enhanced episodes, and is disputed as to its canonocity (is that a word? spellcheck says no... then again, it also says "spellcheck" isn't a word). Refusing to include information that comes from an official source (ie: ABC, note that I'm not saying that the information is canon, just commenting on where it comes from) is ludicrous. The information is out there, and should be mentioned, not swept under the carpet. I'm not arguing that we change the name of the article to Tom Friendly, nor am I arguing that we change cast credits or anything of that nature. In fact, if it came up, I would argue against that. But to oppose including relevant information in the article is counter-productive. And before someone makes the argument that including potentially false information in the article is counter-productive, that's exactly why I say we should note the source. Jimbo the tubby 09:35, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Spellcheckers aren't worth shirt (yes, it's a word). -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 09:48, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Tom gets an Nosebleed off island in New York when Michael hits him with a champagne bottle. {{SUBST:User:jdray/autosig}} 08:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Possible Name Confirmation

At the Fuselage here, Gregg Nations suggests that his last name may actually be "Friendly", unless he was joking. Nick2010 06:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

There's another use of it on the season 4 DVD. M.C. Gainey himself calls the character "Tom Friendly" during the Lost on Location for Meet Kevin Johnson. -- Zinc Saucier 09:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
"Tom Friendly" backed up by the "Memory" video from Comic-Con.--Nevermore 21:29, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
It is now canon that he's "Tom Friendly"; just as canon as Karl Martin or Libby Smith. Should be changed. --Golden Monkey 21:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
  • I still don't think his real last name is "Friendly". Granted, they used it in the Comic Con memory video, but c'mon. Do you really think his last name is Friendly? The nickname "Mr. Friendly" was coined by the producers because of his friendly persona, not because it's his last name. I think they merged "Tom" and "Friendly" for the video simply because Friendly is a recognizable fan name for the character. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 02:32, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
    • I've searched Friendly on Facebook and got quite a few people with that surname listed. I know it's not a reliable source, but why would *all* of these people make up a surname ? Is there some kind of surnames database we could check ? Granted, it's *unusual* but ... --LeoChris 02:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit : I've found this link --LeoChris 02:44, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

    • It doesn't matter if his surname was Wacko, "Tom Friendly" was what was on the memorial video, so that shows what his last name was. If it was just a nickname, it would've looked like this: Tom "Friendly", or Tom "Mr. Friendly" just like how Frogurt's nickname was in quotation (Neil "Frogurt"). I knew a kid who's last name was McCool, and after that I dont doubt last names anymore. We really should change it to Tom Friendly and put this debate to bed.--Joshtopher27 05:23, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
    • We have to accept Tom Friendly; else, we have to get rid of Libby Smith and Karl Martin, since they came from the same source. If it was a nickname it'd be in quotes, like "Libby" and "Frogurt" were. It's his last name, the video proved that. --Golden Monkey 05:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
    • Pictogram replyPictogram voting support I have to agree w/Golden Monkey, had the producers of the memorial video not used parentheses in "Frogurt" and/or had used them for Karl then I would agree w/CTS. The second valid point is consistency, and doing the same for all the name changes.- MRMIKE T  C  E  05:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
    • I agree, even though i don't like it. They did mispell Arzt though but you can't rename Libby and Karl based on that video but not Tom. Either rename them all or don't. Picking and choosing though should not be an option --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 12:54, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • It's all or nothing --LOST-Hunter61 20:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Yeah - rename to Tom Friendly. --Pierre 21:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Just like with Alex, why hasn't his full name been properly changed? We don't need to know that his name was revealed at Comic-Con and how long it's been speculated. Put that stuff in the trivia section and change his name already. --Joshtopher27 09:35, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
    • I tried changing it, but CTS said that there wasn't consensus...despite the fact that there is consensus that his name is Friendly, everyone except CTS agrees that it is. This is silly; we all agree his name is Friendly but it hasn't been changed yet, just because one person refuses to accept it. It should be changed now.--Golden Monkey 19:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support I was initially against the change to "Tom Friendly" on the grounds that it sounded silly. But after it was confirmed at Comic-Con, I have completely come around on the name. Still silly, yes, but now, silly and official. Change it! Marc604 15:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Change it to Tom Friendly. who cares if its a silly name, it must be done! --Frw22 22:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Tom = candidate

"Friendly" is Candidate #109 on the lighthouse dial. Jethelred 05:07, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

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