Talk: Timeline:Post-return

Day 2???

The events that are currently listed after the vote to kill Sayid should be listed under Day 3 and the events currently on Day 3 should be made into Day 4. If we look at "He's Our You" we see that they voted to kill Sayid, Sawyer attempted to let him go, and then THE NEXT MORNING Kate, Hurley, and Jack have breakfast together and Hurley tells them that Sawyer and Juliet are living together. Then it's THAT NIGHT (on Day 3) when Ben sends the flaming bus as a distraction. --Crash815 Talk 00:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

• But that morning at the breakfast table, Kate said Jack talked to Sawyer last night which was day 1. So that must have happened on day 2. The breakfast meeting was before the vote and before the visit to Oldham. Here's the order of the episode:

MORNING:

-Ben brings Sayid another sandwich and a book

-Horace visits Sayid

-While Juliet and Sawyer are having breakfast (Sawyer: "I think your bacon's ready"), Horace visits (Sawyer: "Mornin' H")

-Sawyer visits Sayid

-Hurley, Jack, and Kate have waffles and discuss Sawyer and Juliet (Kate: "I thought you were at Sawyer's last night.")

-Roger meets Sayid

AFTERNOON:

-Sayid is taken to Oldham

-Sayid talks

-Juliet and Kate talk

EVENING:

-Dharma folk vote on Sayid

-Sawyer offers to let Sayid escape

-Kate and Sawyer talk, cue burning bus (Sawyer: "Three years--no burning buses. Y'all are back for ONE day...")

-Ben breaks Sayid out

-Sayid takes Jin's gun and shoots Ben

JamesyWamesy 01:04, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the breakfast scene is way before the vote. The vote is after the interrogation, and when they come back from the interrogation, Juliet and Kate are talking. For some reason the "He's Our You" page states that the breakfast scene is after the vote. That really is not the case, because right after Sayid tells Sawyer he has found his purpose, Sawyer seeks out Kate and asks her why she came back. So it is actually the episode article which needs correcting, not this one.--Baker1000 01:10, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

The Orchid

The Orchid scene from Because You Left takes place after Faraday's return in Some Like It Hoth. Pierre wakes up to the baby Miles crying, thus the earliest it could have happened was 3 months before Flight 316. Daniel's DHARMA jumpsuit has the name "Joe" on it, but no one yet has been hiding their first names. (This next one's weak, but...) When Jack asks if Faraday was there, Sawyer replied, "Not anymore" as if he's been gone long enough not to expect him back, else he probably would have said "He just left." When Faraday returns, he says to Miles, "Long time, no see." Less than three months would probably not be considered a "long time". It seems to me (just a theory) he would have left shortly after arriving in 1974 possibly with young Charlotte to get her off the Island.

When the Orchid is seen in Because You Left and in Some Like It Hoth they look near identical as if only a few days have passed between the images, rather than a couple months. Therefore unless Daniel's been gone for only a few days, it must have happened a few days after his arrival. Baby Miles also looks to be about the same age in the two episodes. Anyway, that's my take on it: Daniel in the Orchid takes place a few days after his arrival on the sub. Take it or leave it.

-JamesyWamesy 22:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• Agree From all the explanations I've heard this one sounds the best and it's what I'm speculating right now. --Crash815 Talk 23:28, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
• Disagree I can't argue with the first point, I just feel it was in the 3 months before. Daniel hiding his name isn't evidence for either it occurring before 316 or after. Why would Sawyer have said "He just left"? It is 3 months, not 3 days. "Not anymore" is an entirely reasonable response for a person who has been gone for 3 months. Faraday didn't seem to be saying "Long time, no see" in a serious manner, but more in a chummy friendly way; I've certainly said long time no see to people when either I, or they, have been away for a few weeks, let alone a few months: especially with them spending three years together.

I don't see only a few days as having passed, I see a longer time between the two Miles' with the one on the right - the one from "Some like it Hoth" looking older than the "Because you Left" one. --Sirrontail 23:47, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• • They're using infants to do the scene. Similar to what they've done with Aaron, they probably aren't too worried about using the same baby, because they grow fast. It's a good point, but I don't think it's a "make-or-break" point. We'll have to wait and find out i guess. --Crash815 Talk 23:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
    • I do see the point about infants ageing, but I think they would have taken more care in choosing another child who looks the right age. I mean with Aaron, as far as I recall, the kids playing him always looked like they were ageing with the same time line as Aaron was. But you're right, it's hardly a major defining point in the "Lostiverse". --Sirrontail 16:27, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
• I get what you mean about the "Long time, no see," Sirrontail. That works for general conversation, but I think that to put it in a show it would mean what it is: a long time, ie. a few years. Just my opinion. -JamesyWamesy 17:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

May 25

I had removed the statement that the events in 1977 take place after May 25, but they were put back, so I'll bring it up here. Hurley's reference to Star Wars doesn't definitively place the events after May 25.
HURLEY: It's 1977, right?
[Miles nods.]
HURLEY: So Stars Wars just came out.
He only asks about the year, and there's no indication that Hurley knows what month or date Star Wars came out. That's not a strong enough basis for setting the earliest date as May 25. -- Graft   talk   contributions  03:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

• I would say he knew the date (he didn't question that), probably in the summer - "just" came out, just wanted to double-check what year it was. Don't you think if you were around for 3 days you'd have figured out the date. As hardcore a Star Wars fan that he was, he likley would have known what date the movie came out. Also the writers probably put that note in there as a hint to the date, why else would they have put that phrase in the show? It seems pretty strong to me. -JamesyWamesy 03:43, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
  • "Probably" he would know -- perhaps. But also maybe not. I can see Hurley not knowing what date it came out; just seeing 1977 on the copyright each time he watches it. "Just" in this case could be more relative, as he recently traveled 30 years into the past; so from the perspective of 30 years, anytime within a year could be considered "just". And I don't see the writers necessarily using it as a clue to the earliest month/date; I think the year is the significant allusion they were going for. Again, I just think it's too presumptuous here. More conclusive evidence is needed. -- Graft   talk   contributions  04:30, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

• OK, how about we change it the line to read "probably occurs after May 25"? -JamesyWamesy 17:10, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

December 2007?

I understand where people are getting December 2007 from, but where are you getting the exact dates (i.e. 28th, 29th, etc) --Crash815 Talk 14:20, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Day 119x?

I think day 1190-something just looks strange. I think we should start renumbering from the last crash again. It's a lot simpler. -JamesyWamesy 15:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

• Agree. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 00:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

2007 or January 2008?

Darlton confirmed in the last recap that flight 316 landed on the island in present time, so it is January 2008. I know that the previous recap said it was 2007, but I think it was a mistake (they barely did 2004 + 3 = 2007). If not, it means that Bentham's passport is wrong and then the whole December 2007/January 2008 timeline will have to be corrected.  Nico  15:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

• However twice it has been confirmed that the Island's "present" is 2007. First in Lost: The Story of the Oceanic 6, then again by Darlton themselves in one of the recent podcasts Unless the time difference between the Island and the real world has greatly widened... -JamesyWamesy 20:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
  • OK, I wasn't aware of the second as I don't listen to the podcasts. Actually, the problem is that we cannot seriously have a 1 month time difference between the island and the "real" world. So, I'm pretty sure that either there is a mistake on Bentham's passport or the writers made a mistake. On LP-FR, I "chose" to consider that the writers made a mistake… but I let you decide what to do on LP-EN. :P  Nico  20:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
• If the flight had skipped back in time then Jacob couldn't have told Hurley how to get Ajira 316, because he was dead. ("The Incident, Part 1") cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 18:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
• Yes, but we all know Hurley can talk to dead people. {{User:brandrone} 09:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
• So do we now have a consensus that Ajira 316 took off from LAX in 2007 and also landed on the Island in 2007? I thought for sure this debate was settled months ago, yet the article still says the plane took off in January 2008. I think we have enough reason to change it. --Celebok 00:08, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

2007: Merge Day 1 & Day 2 ?

Is there any opposition in merging Day 1 and Day 2 on the 2007 timeline ? I dont see any continuity errors with the evening events that are currently listed as taking place on the night of Day 2 occuring on the night of Day 1 instead. Sun, Lapidus, and Ben can still head to the main Island on Day 1 in the afternoon and still have all the events from TLADOJB take place that evening. Furthermore, as listed now, Ben is KO'd by Sun on Day 1 and is not woken up by Locke until more than 24 hours later ? That's a stretch considering the injury.

Lastly, I like the concept of the events from the perspective of the 2 factions of the O6 (Sun & Jack's group) happening at "the same time". As it stands now, the 1977 storyline now stands at 4 days since Jack's arrival, but Sun's timeline is 5. I think the Jughead detonation happening "coincidently" (give or take a few hours) with the "Locke"/Ben/Jacob confrontation is in fact the intention of the producers. LEHLegacy 16:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• The "present" events of "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" start in the dark and continue in the daylight. Ilana also mentioned that Frank and Sun took the canoes in the middle of the night (even though we saw it was daylight). Most of the first day must have passed before Locke made himself known, he told his story on the second day, then found Ben. It still could have been mid-morning, only about 16 hours after getting knocked out. -JamesyWamesy 20:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• Yes you're correct. Perhaps I forgot about the Ilana/Locke convo because it's not included on the timeline ;) Just another note about the time one is KO'd for. Similiar situation for Lapadis when Ilana knocks him out on Day 4 (have to assume in the morning b/c he leaves the main Island on Day 3 at night) and he dosen't wake up until Day 5. Again assuming Frank wakes in the morning considering Ilana's group has to travel to the cabin then to the statue all in one day. PERHAPS, they go to the main island on Day 4 in the afternoon (which would clean up Frank being KO'd for far too many hours) and they spend a night on the main island someplace before they head to the cabin on the morning of Day 5. LEHLegacy 21:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC) LEHLegacy

• It's possible, but I doubt it. Since it showed Locke and co. leaving the Others' beach camp on Day 5 earlier in the episode, I would say the remainder of the episode is Day 5 as well. They don't usually skip back and forth in time in one episode. If that scene wasn't there first, I may have agreed with you. I guess we just have a bunch of weaklings getting knocked out. -JamesyWamesy 21:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• I agree that Day 1 & Day 2 in 2007 should be merged. First of all, because it makes more sense that the amount of days should be the same in 1977 and 2007. Ajira 316 crashed during daytime (perhaps morning) as seen in 'Namaste'. Sun and Lapidus leave immediately and by night they already are in the barracks. Caesar and Iliana see John at the beach also at night time. And I highly doubt and see no point why a whole day would've passed between those events and John looking up Ceasar in the office. I think those events are a direct follow-up. So the events of Day 1 and Day 2 happen on the same day. --Boumie 18:10, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

• Day 1 & 2 are definitely separate due to the night time conversation between Ilana and Locke at the campfire on Day 1. The following day Locke talks to Caesar, then visits Ben. If we needed to merge two days, I would think Day 2 & 3 perhaps. -JamesyWamesy 04:13, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

• You were correct, Day 1 & 2 should remain seperate, I also forget about the scene between Locke and Iliana during the daytime when she offers him mango. Maybe it should be added to the timeline. It happens on the second day, then at the evening follows his conversation with Caesar, who brings him to Ben. But Day 2 and Day 3 also can't be merged because Locke and Ben travel on the third day to the main island and it't daytime again. And it's only on the 4th day Ben confronts 'the monster'. --Boumie 20:43, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

• James, I think we should actually consider this merge. In 6.01 Jacob tells Hurley that he dies an hour ago. Now as I argued above, I think it was the writers intention in Season 5 to have the 77 and the 07 storyling happening side by side in time from the perspective of the castaways. What makes more sense ? That the detonation on Day 4 sent them 30 years plus 1 day in 2007 or that exact time 30 years later and the survivors were KO'd for an hour after the Incident. I vote #2 LEHLegacy 14:37, February 8, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• Which merge LEH? Day 2&3? --JamesyWamesy 20:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

• Either 1&2 or 2&3. Whichever makes most sense - I'm just trying to point out that from the Jacob/Hurley convo I mentioned above, it's pretty clear the events from the diverged timeline in the 2nd half of Season 5 happened coincidently.LEHLegacy 21:21, February 8, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• What makes the most sense is counting the days we've actually observed in 2007 since the Ajira crash. Evidence given above is enough to convince me that none of the days can or should be merged. --Celebok 09:04, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
• So then it's a continuity error ? Is it possible we are short a day in the '77 timeline, then ? LEHLegacy 14:49, February 9, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• Why do you say it's an error? I see no reason to assume there's a rule that time-split groups of people have to experience the exact same passage of time from the time they split to the time they re-merge. If the 1977 group did re-merge at the exact same number of days since the Ajira crash as they experienced, then yes, it would make sense, but since that's not what we've observed, it just means it's apparently not the rule. --Celebok 00:20, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
• Are you not reading what I wrote above regarding what Jacob told Hurley ? Sounds silly to me that the survivors would skip 30 years into the future plus 1 day so that to get to the same present time as the Ajira/Flocke crowd. Plus the hour Jacob has been dead for is corvered from the survivors perspective neatly by how long they could have been KO'd for from the bomb blast.LEHLegacy 15:45, February 10, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• Yeah, I read what you wrote before. Jacob told Hurley that he died an hour ago. The Losties at the Swan crater probably flashed through time to the moment Jacob died. And jumping into the future 30 years plus 1 day sounds silly. So what? Just because you think it should work a certain way and that it sounds silly for it happen a different way doesn't mean that the writers are in error if they don't work under that same rule. Nothing on the show has stated that time jumps have to happen only in yearly increments or that people have to experience the same amount of time in different time periods. The truth is, we don't know why the Losties even jumped from 1977 to 2007 in the first place, so all we know is that the Island placed them around the moment of Jacob's death, without regard to the number of days since the Ajira 316 crashed. It's not an error, it's just how it worked. --Celebok 01:17, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Time Travel Back to 2007

I am a little confused as to the statement that 316 traveled back to 2007 at all. I mean yeah, the transitions from Dharma times (which was definitely in 1977) stated that the two periods were 30 years apart. Sensible conclusion. But also, in The Variable, they show the same transitional statement between Dharma times and Desmond being in the hospital, which should be happening in 2008. Since in this case, that "30 years Ago" statement really translates to "About 30 Years Ago", why can't this be the case with the plane itself (along with Locke, Ben, Sun, etc.). Doesn't it just make more sense that when the flash occured, it yanked Team Jack-off the plane into the past and the plane did no time travel at all (besides ending up in a situation where it was sunny instead of dark...which we've seen happen before in The Constant while they flew to the freighter).--BeyondLimitation 23:43, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The off-island events leading up to the Ajira flight also take place in 2007. This was confirmed by Lindelof in the 5x01 DVD commentary. LEHLegacy 13:50, February 24, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

The Substitute = Day 6 or Day 7?

Hey guys so far this season i've been updating this article with each new episode and I'd like to get input from a couple others. Now it seems like at the least the scenes with the "statue group" occurred on day 6. Flocke however, mentions Jacob having died "yesterday" indicating it may be day 7, unless Flocke and Ben literally spent the entire night chilling in the four toed statue. Also I think it may be day 7 just because it seems a little too ridiculous timewise for instance if it is still day 6 we are led to believe that since sunrise Sawyer has completely buried Juliet, presumably close to the swan site, been taken ot the temple, left the temple, went to the barracks, spent some time getting drunk, then sobered up and went with Locke to the cliff, all while it is still the middle of the day. What do you guys think? InflatableBombshelter 22:04, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

• Jacob died on the night of Day 5, so with UnLocke saying that Jacob died "yesterday" that means that he is in Day 6 still. --Crash815 Talk 23:13, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
• It does feel like at least that Sawyer is in day 7 when MIB arrives. He buries Juliet on Day 6, ends up with the temple folks, leaves, Kate follows him, and ends up at the barracks, and its still day 6, when he and MIB travel to the caves. I know UnLocke said it was yesterday, but timeline wise it doesn't make sense for all that to happen to Sawyer in one day really. Buffyfan123 01:52, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
• Based on the timelines involved in such events as Kate's journey from the Temple to the Barracks, and on Lost's pre-existing penchant for ending an episode at or near to the end of the day, my personal contention is that Day 6 ends with only Kate's arrival at the Barracks still to come in What Kate Does, and before everything from the beginning of The Substitute on except for Claire freeing Jin from the bear trap in Lighthouse. Rtozier (talk) 10:31, November 14, 2014 (UTC)

Still Day 6

• I still find it hard to believe that its been 5 episodes and were still on day 6, surely the temple folks have approched day 7 now, even the trek with Hurley and Jack to the lighthouse. I understand no night scenes have been shown, but timeline wise do you think its day 7 for the material with Hurley and Jack at the lighthouse and Sawyer and Flocke going to the caves. ~ Maybe it is still day 6, but wow so much can happen in one day. The way its going the series will end with just 10 days in 2007. Buffyfan123

  FLOcke told Sawyer that Jacob died yesterday so I believe all these events are happening in the same day. Kate and Jack's group leave the Swan crater at night and must sleep for a bit and arrive at the Temple first thing in the morning while Sawyer buries Juliet. I imagine after being captured Sawyer quickly moves to leave the Temple and days so. Given if the Barracks/Temple/Cave are all relatively close to eachother it can still be the same day. LEHLegacy 13:48, February 24, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegcy

• I see thanks, just was wondering as it took the losties days to reach barracks in season 3. But they sure heck have done so much in one day. Buffyfan123 22:58, February 24, 2010 (UTC)
• During the temple massacre in Sundown, Miles tells Sun that Jin "took off yesterday". It seems a second day has passed by this point. There may be no way to know exactly which events in the past few episodes have occurred on which of the two days. Indigowombat 02:51, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
• I heard that too, and I think time a day has passed since Sawyer buried Juliet. No idea when a day passed between Lighthouse and Sundown. Illana's group may have not reached the temple in less than a day from travelling from the statue to the beach camp to bury Locke and then to the temple. I think most likely a day passed between Lighthouse and Sundown, as we didn't see Illana and the group travel to the temple, they were already there. So some time must have passed between Lighthouse and Sundown. Buffyfan123 11:44, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

• It's very unlikely that a day passed between Lighthouse and Sundown, because in Lighthouse, Jack and Hurley ran into Kate right after they left the Temple, and Hurley gave Kate simple directions on getting to the secret passage, like it was right there. In Sundown, Kate still hadn't reached the Temple when she ran into Sayid. Can anyone see a problem with a day passing between The Subtitute and Lighthouse, or between What Kate Does and The Substitute? --Celebok 14:33, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

• I think night happened between "The substitute" and "Lighthouse"

Day 5: Losties arrival to the temple at daybreak, Sayid resurection and "What Kate does" events, Ilana, Sun, Frak and Ben go to the beach. Afternoon: "The substitute" events, Locke's burial and Jin fall inconscious. Day 6: Jin wakes up in Claire's tent. "Lighthouse" and "Sundown" events. This two episodes' events obviusly are happening in the same day: Jack and Hurley sees Kate near the temple, and Sayid sees her going inside the temple. Jacob sais "some bad is arriving to the temple". victormo

• The main problem with most of this is that after Sawyer talks to Kate at the Barracks, he says 'You should be able to make it back to the Temple before nightfall.' We need to square this with Miles' statement that 'Jin took off yesterday' and Flocke's statement to Sawyer that 'Jacob died yesterday'. The only way I can see this fitting together is;

Day 5

• 4am. Jacob killed.
• 5am. Losties flash to 2007. Jacob speaks to Hurley. ('I died an hour ago.')
• 7am. Flocke kidnaps Richard and heads off from the statue. Juliet buried.
• 9am. The Other redshirts are fed up and leave for the temple. Ilana leaves too.
• 11am. The seven Losties reach the temple (it takes a while).
• Noon. Ilana and co reach the beach camp. Burying Locke takes a while.
• 1pm. Sayid comes back to life. ('You were dead for two hours.') A few minutes later Sawyer leaves for the barracks with Kate and Jin following later.
• Afternoon. Sayid is tortured, and Jack fails to give him the pill.
• 3pm. Ilana and co leave for the temple.
• 5pm. Kate and Jin escape from Aldo and Justin at late afternoon having travelled for ~4 hours.
• 11pm. Sawyer reaches the Barracks at night.
• Kate and Jin spend the night in the jungle (separately). Kate continues to travel towards the Barracks whereas Jin more or less stays put.

Day 6

• 7am. Aldo and Justin wake up during the night. Once day breaks, they are able to find Jin and accost him. They meet Claire. Flocke chats to Richard having made him spend a bad night in a bag.
• 8am. Kate comes to the Barracks early in the morning. Sawyer sends her away. Knowing it took him about 10 hours to get to the Barracks, he tells her she ought to be able to make it back to the Temple before nightfall.
• 9am-noon. During the morning Flocke comes to the Barracks and takes Sawyer to the cave. ('Jacob died a little over a day ago.')
• 12.30pm. Jin comes round and Claire kills Justin. Jack (having had a lie in... well, he missed a night) tells Dogen his friends aren't coming back. Dogen nods; it's been a day.
• 1pm. Flocke rushes across and comes to Claire and they travel towards the Temple. Jack and Hurley leave the temple for the lighthouse.
• 3pm. Two hours from the temple Jack and Hurley pass Kate. The Other redshirts reach the Temple but have nothing useful to tell Dogen.
• 4pm. Sayid fights Dogen. Jack and Hurley reach the caves.
• 5pm. Flocke and Claire turn up at the temple. Dogen sends Sayid to kill Flocke but he is claimed instead. Kate arrives back having passed Sayid ~5 mins from the temple. Jack and Hurley reach the lighthouse. Jacob tells them an attack is about to take place and that it's too late to stop it.
• 6pm. Flocke launches his attack on the Temple at sundown. Ilana and Sun turn up, and Miles tells Sun that Jin took off yesterday.

Can anyone see any major problems with this? If not, I guess we should implement it. Mark J 16:23, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

• That's pretty solid except that you have FLocke telling Sawyer Jacob died yesterday on Day 6 when he died on Day 4. What is the issue with the way it is right now aside from Miles comment to Sun ? Also, considering that Locke is buried by Ilana's group during the day, in this scenario you have them taking + 24 hours to get to the Temple from the beach camp. Seems a bit long.LEHLegacy 17:56, March 8, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
  • Yeah, Flocke visiting Sawyer on Day 6 and saying that Jacob died "yesterday" pretty much throws a wrench into what would otherwise be a good solid timetable. I think we need to pay more attention to character dialog than how long we think it should take people to move from one location to another, since we've already seen many instances that the show is inconsistent with the Island's geography. Thus, because Flocke tells Sawyer that Jacob died yesterday, and Miles tells Sun that Jin took off yesterday, this means that Kate did not reach the Temple by nightfall like Sawyer said she should, and Ilana's group took also took their time walking from the grave site to the Temple. We need to split the days accordingly. --Celebok 20:57, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Uh, slight edit conflict I think. But yeah I think this line is more defensible; if someone died at 4am and it was by now 9am the following day, you might well say their death was yesterday. Also Kate reaches the Temple c. 5pm so in your line she fails by practically 24 hours to meet Sawyer's deadline! I hope you don't mind me pushing this, it's just that it seems to work so well in my eyes it would be a pity not to use it. Cheers, Mark J 21:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
      • Well, I'm not necessarily trying to derail your efforts, and maybe your idea does work in theory, but in creating the official timeline, I'd rather apply Occam's Razor and go with the simplest explanation. I looked over it some more today, and it seems to work if we simply put a day split between "The Substitute" and "Lighthouse", with the exception that the very last scene of "What Kate Does", where Justin and Aldo find Jin and get shot by Claire, happens on the same day as "Lighthouse", since that basically shows the continuation of that scene. As for Kate's journey from the Barracks back to the Temple, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. First, Sawyer told Kate, "If you leave now, you can make it back to the Temple by nightfall." But Kate didn't "leave now". She followed Sawyer back to the Barracks, refilled her water bottle, watched Sawyer go back inside his house, and who knows what else she did before finally leaving the Barracks. And second, she wasn't even heading to the Temple at all! When Jack found her, she said she was looking for Claire and was planning to head back to their beach camp! It was only after Jack told her what Dogen had told him about Claire that Kate decided to go to back to the Temple. So what likely happened, if we go with my timeline proposal, is that it was late afternoon when Kate left the Barracks, she spent the night in the jungle, then started making her way toward the beach camp the next morning, and just happened to cross paths with Jack and Hurley when she stopped at the creek near the Temple. --Celebok 09:44, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
        • I think this is the most believable. Unfortunately, I think the action from 06x07 will be during daylight so I don't think we will receive any further information regarding the day break we are looking for. Just to note, I'm not one to say how far things are apart from each other but part of your theory has to relay on how far the Barracks are from the sub dock (another debate I have put a lot of time into). If they are close, which I believe, I see now issue with this timeline.LEHLegacy 18:07, March 9, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
        • Dude, thanks for going into this because that line is entirely plausible (but I'm not sure if it's any better). The reasoning about Kate's journey back is good thinking because you're right, she was probably blundering around in the jungle looking for Claire rather than making a beeline for the temple. However it's still a bit off of Sawyer to say that she could make it back before nightfall and if it was late afternoon when she left that doesn't leave much time for the whole cave visit. Jin spending the night in Claire's tent is plausible (but it means Flocke/Claire spent more or less the whole of day 6 travelling to the temple.) What you say about travel times makes sense, you're right, the show has given us contradictory information in the past, but given that my line allows for uniform travel times and doesn't contradict any in-show information... I guess it's a toss up because yours is simpler but requires a bit more 'timeline forcing'. Any chance of a third opinion from someone? Mark J 12:34, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
          • I think we should keep it as is until we have reason to believe otherwise. We should be basing the timeline one what we're given, not our speculations about what we're given. In other words, keep "LA X, Parts 1 & 2" through Sundown as Day 6, but as of any daytime scenes in tonight's episode, it'll be the next day. So unless we have reason to believe otherwise (other than our own speculation) we should keep it like this. However, if Miles did say that Jin left "yesterday" then we should change the timeline accordingly. --Crash815 Talk 14:14, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
            • Dude, I would love to keep it the way it is, it's much simpler. But to be blunt, Miles did say that (check the Sundown transcript). So night definitely happened sometime. We're kinda arguing about when, but maybe we should just put a note in saying 'Night happens sometime around now'. Mark J 15:56, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
              • Yes, Miles's comment made our lives a whole lot more difficult. In fact, if people wanted to argue that Miles's comment was a continuity error, I wouldn't complain. --Celebok 23:11, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
          • Okay, I thought about this some more, and I have what I think is an even simpler alternative. Put the day split between "What Kate Does" and "The Substitute". Effectively, this means that Sawyer spends the night binge-drinking, Richard spends the night inside Flocke's pinata, and Kate camps out somewhere in the jungle shortly after leaving the Barracks, all of which makes sense to me. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that Claire leaves Jin stuck in the bear trap overnight and waits until the next morning to free him. Alternatively, we could put the day split just before the last scene of "What Kate Does", which then raises the question of why Jin hadn't reached the temple by the end of the day. Either way, I don't think there's a way around having at least one minor logic flaw somewhere. I haven't completely rejected your original idea, either, but I'm still just trying to find a way to make a simpler day-split work without having to scramble the order of events too much. --Celebok 23:11, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
            • Don't think scenario #1 can work, Celebok. In "Lighthouse" when we first rejoin the Jin/Claire story Claire is walking towards them and checking the bodies in a sense that one would believe that this is picking up directly after the last scene in "What Kate Does" left off. I'm starting to think the best way is to leave it as it is now and treat Miles comment as a continuity error - it wouldn't be LOST's first LEHLegacy 18:55, March 10, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
              • Yeah, I also had the sense that the Claire freeing Jin from the bear trap was a continuation of the last scene of "What Kate Does". Okay, my last ditch effort to fix this time line is: Claire shoots Aldo and Justin, then frees Jin from the trap and carries him back to her tent. The next day contains the events from "The Substitute" and "Lighthouse", with Jin waking up in Claire's tent. I basically just moved one small scene out of sequence (Claire freeing Jin from the trap). --Celebok 00:33, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
                • Sounds pretty good to me. It ties in with Miles' and Flocke's statements but (not really) Sawyer's. However it is pretty simple and the places that people spend the night are sensible. I think we should go with this. Mark J 00:47, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
                • But that doesn't work with FLocke's statement b/c in "The Sub" he tells Sawyer that Jacob died yesterday which would be incorrect if you add a day there. Either Miles is wrong or FLocke is wrong with their use of the word.LEHLegacy 18:11, March 11, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
                  • Not necessarily. See Mark J's original idea above in which Jacob is killed at 4am. The fact that Jacob was killed at night gives us the liberty of saying that maybe it was actually early morning the next day, which would make Flocke's statement still possible if he visits Sawyer the day after that morning. --Celebok 23:27, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
• Good points, thanks for the response. To be honest since it is light when Flocke emerges from the statue I assumed the whole killing of Jacob episode took place shortly before dawn on Day 5 (how long do you expect Richard to stand out there once he gets freaked out by Locke's body?). Also if the cave events took place on Day 5, then so did Sawyer's meeting with Kate, which means that Sawyer's statement to Kate can't possibly square with it definitely being Day 6 by Sundown and Kate's return. If you follow me. So that alternative line doesn't work. Also although Miles' statement is but one statement, I don't think we should be in the habit of directly contradicting things on screen if we can possibly avoid it, and in this case we can, without reaching any wildly offbeat conclusions.

Thanks for pointing out the ~30 hours travel time to get from the survivors' beach camp to the Temple. This does seem a bit long. However ever since S3 (when it took the Losties about 2 days to get to the Barracks) I've been under the impression that the places on the island are actually pretty spread out, so maybe it isn't as unreasonable as all that. My timeline ends up supporting this premise allowing ~10 hours to get from the Barracks to the Temple in both directions (although this may be contradicted later). Mark J 21:28, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

• Well we know that the Temple is in the Dark Territory near the Black Rock. In "Exodus" the Survivors were able to get from that same beach camp to the Black Rock and back to the Swan hatch (15 min from camp) in one day so +24 hours for Ilana's group to get to the Temple is a stretch. truth of the matter is the show has presented countless inconsistencies in this matter it's probably a fool's errand to try and make this work that will satisfy all evidence.

LEHLegacy 23:26, March 8, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• Anyway, I think episodes 6x02 to 6x06 have to happen in two days, because there were so much events and character traveling to many differents places to happen in less than 24hours (dawn to sundown... 16-18 hours?). I don't think Miles' comment was a continuity error, because is logical that all this episodes occours in two days. If we can't decide if the night happens between "What kate does" and "The substitute", between "The substitute" and "Lighthouse", or if Jin and Claire scene happened in the same day than the other scenes from 6x03 or it was shown there because argumental convenience but it happened at the next day... If we can't decide because the show was unclair, I think we have to put all this events in "Days 5 and 6" and explain with a note that the night was not shown but it obviusly happened in some moment from 6x03 to 6x05. By the way, sorry if my english is not good, i'm Spanish >.< Victormo 23:38, March 10, 2010 (UTC) victormo
  • You know something? I kinda like that "Days 5 and 6" idea! Clearly this discussion shows that we simply don't know when a daybreak occurred and we're all trying to make stuff up to get it to work. And after all this analysis we've done, I have to agree that all those events did take place over two days. I still think it totally makes sense that Richard spent the night dangling from the tree, and Sawyer spent the night getting drunk on Dharma whiskey. And Kate probably spent the night in the jungle at some point, but we've been given no clues as to when. As discussed above, a day split between "What Kate Does" and "The Substitute" almost works, except for the fact that Claire rescuing Jin becomes split into two separate days which makes no sense. --Celebok 00:42, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree with pretty much all of this. My suggestion is to have a "Day 5" section for those events that we can be sure took place then, a "Day 5 or 6" section for events which cannot be definitively tied to a specific day, and a "Day 6" section for events that we can know took place on that date. My $0.02. Indigowombat 09:45, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
      • I disagree with this approach - this accounts for too many revisions and the point of LP is to be as accurate as possible, doing a "5 or 6" approach is laughable from an accuracy perspective. Trust me, I understand that's it's been almost impossible to know for certain but LP should be avoiding scenarios like this.LEHLegacy 18:26, March 11, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
        • I'd say my proposed solution is more accurate, but less precise, than the type of approach you advocate, given the data we currently possess. It would be entirely accurate to describe certain events as taking place on one of two days, but more precise (though not necessarily accurate), to claim a specific date based on our best guess that can be inferred from the available data. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, if precision is to be valued over accuracy. If accuracy is to be valued over precision, however, I'd say that the approach I describe would be the preferable option. So the question becomes, which is more important, maximal precision or maximal accuracy? Indigowombat 04:09, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
      • 8Two cents of gold my friend. This is a good suggestion and it shouldn't be too difficult to work out which events go in the middle section, in Day 5 or 6... We should go with this, at the very least as a temporary solution. Mark J 13:14, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
      • Well, it sounds like it's now down to two choices: the "Day 5 or 6" approach, or the split between "What Kate Does" and "The Substitute" with adjusted bear-trap rescue (described above). Which do you prefer? --Celebok 23:35, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
        • I can be satisfied with either, but to me it seems best to ensure accuracy rather than trying to infer a more precise date from incomplete information. As a side note, we should also be mindful of the discussion in the next section below. Someone merged Days 2 and 3 several days ago, and the discussion below concludes that this was done in error. So when that error is corrected, my solution becomes a "Day 6 or 7" approach instead of "Day 5 or 6". Indigowombat 04:09, March 12, 2010 (UTC)
          • Okay, I made the edit and went with the "Day 6 or 7" approach (after also re-inserting the Day 2 split as discussed below). I agree that while this approach doesn't look as good, it's better to stick to factual information than to try to guess the most likely scenario from incomplete information. I'm pretty sure I got things right as far as what's definitely Day 6 and what's definitely Day 7, but feel free to make any corrections you think are appropriate. --Celebok 01:32, March 14, 2010 (UTC)
• Well Miles said Jin ran off yesterday from the temple to Sun in Sundown, and Illana's group took 24 + hours to reach the temple from the statue to the beach camp then back to the temple, that was probaly alot and I highly doubt they could do all that in one day. So Day 5 clearly ends between The Substitute and Sundown. I think a day passing between Lighthouse and Sundown maybe, but then we have to assume the lighthouse was pretty far away, for Hurley and Jack to get from there to the black rock and back to the beach camp by probaly sunset. Which would be almost 2 days if there was a day passed between episode 3 and 6. Buffyfan123

08:53, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

• • But Ilana's group in this sceneior taking more than 24+ hours to get to the Temple is problematic now b/c in "Dr. Linus" we see that Richard/Hurley/Jack can get from somewhere around the Lighthouse to the BR (which we know is in the Dark Territory along with the Temple) and back to the Beach camp in a day's time before it is even dark out.LEHLegacy 18:15, March 11, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

I've tweaked a bit of information, Ilana and co. left the Statue at day 6 but the corresponding events (with Sawyer) in he episode appear to be later than that. Kate's events appear to interweave with Ilana's events in the Substitue but not with Sawyer's. I'm not sure about Jack's pill but it appears that that happened in day 6.--Edible8 20:52, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

• While I appreciate the effort you took in figuring this out, my main issue with the edits you made is that you're really making a lot of assumptions and guesses as to which days certain events happened, and you've placed a lot of the events out of order that they appear on the show, based on your assumptions. The simple fact is, we don't know which days a lot of these events took place, which was why we discussed the whole "Day 6 or 7" approach above. --Celebok 05:13, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Seconded. I was about to say basically the same thing, by way of apology to Edible8 for messing with all his hard work when I put the "Day 6 or 7" section back, but you beat me to it, and said it more concisely than I could have, too. It would be nice to be able to be more precise than this, but when we have Kate bumping into Jack and Hurley occuring before her meeting with Sawyer in 6x03, I think that's a sign that we're overcomplicating things. Keeping events grouped by episode until proven otherwise is best, I think. Indigowombat 05:49, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

• Ah, I think I must've posted my comment while you were making your edit. Anyway, I see that your "Day 6 or 7" section encompasses more events than mine originally did, but I guess the whole point of the Day 6 or 7 section is that if there's any dispute over which day something happened, then it belongs in that section, until there's a convincing enough argument that it happened on either Day 6 or Day 7. I also think it's reasonable for us to agree that if anybody moves something out of the Day 6 or 7 section without giving a reason, we can immediately revert it. In fact, I'll start a new "Day 6 or 7" section on this talk page for that very purpose, as I've got my own thoughts on certain events that I think can be moved out of that section. --Celebok 18:35, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I took a conservative approach there. I think that creating the new talk page section was a fantastic move, thanks for doing that. I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestions on what the policy for edits to the "Day 6 or 7" section should be. I'll post my own thoughts below shortly. Indigowombat 21:56, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Day 2 and 3, 2007

I am not sure about the time when Locke sees Ben and Ben wakes up but I'm guessing that it all happened during the same day (Day 3). I think the way it was shown, 3 episodes made it looked like it happened a little longer.--Edible8 14:26, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

• Same day I believe, as Sun and Frank were waiting for Locke as seen in Dead is Dead, and It was still night. Buffyfan123 23:22, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
  • Actually, it was night again. Sun and Frank have been waiting for 24 hours at this point. If it had been a day between FLocke finding Ben and Ben waking up, then Sun and Frank would have been waiting for even longer, 48 hours. Indigowombat 02:54, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think the way we have it now is actually right. Miles giving us a critical piece of info cleared this all up LEHLegacyLEHLegacy
  • The events of Day 2 need to be split up like they were before. Locke talks to Ilana on the beach on Day 2, then later, Caesar shows Locke where Ben is sleeping. Locke watches over Ben for some time, and then Ben wakes up the next morning, on Day 3. --Celebok 08:43, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • So Sun KO's Ben on Day 1 when it's still light out and he doesn't wake up till the morning of Day 3 ? You can't possibly be serious. It's a smack in the head from an oar swung by a frail woman, not a sledgehammer from a bodybuilder. Why can't Ilana/FLocke beach convo followed by the Cesear/FLocke convo with introduction to Ben be on the same day (morning Day 2) ? That way Ben is KO'd in the afternoon on Day 1 - wakes up Day 2 morning and follow that with the events from Dead is Dead. Works to meLEHLegacy 17:50, March 8, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
      • Because after Flocke talks to Ilana on the beach, he later goes to talk to Caesar in Ben's office at night, then Caesar takes him to Ben's unconscious body. Caesar later tells Ben that "he was watching over you," which suggests that this was occurring for some time. This means Ben probably woke up during the night of Day 2, placing the events of Dead is Dead on Day 3. What we observe overrides what theoretically should happen if a woman hits a man on the head with an oar. --Celebok 20:38, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
        • What evidence do you have that supports the FLocke/Caesar conversation happens at night ????? I think you will point to it appearing dark in the window outside, but to me it doesn't appear all that different from the view we are given when Ben & FLocke are having their discussion. Regarding Caesar telling Ben he's been watching over you for sometime is a faulty evidence b/c that is completely relative to Caesar. Knowing what we now know about the motives of Ilana and FLocke, moving the first half of events from Dead is Dead to Day 3 makes the plot of Day 2 woefully short and unsubstantial. Consider that it is breakfast when FLocke shares his story with Ilana - how long could that possibly take ? I would put it at minutes considering what we now know about Flocke why would he share information about his past with a anyone less a follower of Jacob. Now if you have the FLocke/Casear convo happening at night what exactly did FLocke do for the remainder of Day 2 ? He has a plan and needs to get it moving. Lastly, if FLocke and Ben don't arrive to the Barracks until nightfall Day 3, that means Frank & Sun have been waiting there, just doing nothing for 2 full days (1 day is already far too long given the circumstances when you consider Frank wants to get back to Hydra Island). There is just far too much evidence in the favor of having the first half of events in Dead is Dead take place on Day 2. I think an issue you are having is you aren't thinking about the ripple effects of creating another day when there is other evidence to suggest that Jacob dies on night 5 (see what we discussed above about the '77 flash to one hour after Jacob's death. As I see it your only evidence for Day 2 and Day 3 split is a dark office with a somewhat dark window while I have 4 strong peices. I believe it needs to stay as currently isLEHLegacyLEHLegacy
          • Actually I went back and watched the very end of TLADOJB and it looks like you were right. After Ben kills Locke and they show his hanging body we flash back to Hyrda island and we get an outdoor shoot and it's dark outside LEHLegacy 21:56, March 9, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
            • I just want to say, I really appreciate your dedication and the effort you've put into analyzing all the facts in order to get thing as accurate as possible. I was planning to just concede that you were right about the whole not-night thing until I had time to go watch the episode for myself, but you ended up beating me to it anyway! I actually forgot about the quick nighttime shot of the Hydra Island. I remembered being pretty certain that the Flocke-Caesar convo happened at night, but I couldn't remember why. But anyway, if there are no further objections, I'd like to get the timeline adjusted accordingly. --Celebok 23:59, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
            • Yea, I wish you weren't right though, haha, it just would all work so much better with the way I suggested. I just have major issues with Ben being KO'd from Day 1 afternoon to Day 2 at night and Frank and Sun hanging at the Barracks for a full 2 days sitting on their hands (although Ilana tells FLocke they left in the middle of the night but we see later it was during the day). This show just presents so many contridcatory pieces of information on this front it's mind boggling Oh well, the evidence is the evidence and we should know this kinda stuff isn't the stuff that really matters to Darlton. LEHLegacy 04:30, March 10, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
              • Yeah, I do remember when Flocke and Ben first found Sun and Frank waiting inside Ben's house, I thought, "Wait a minute, how long have they been waiting there??" But one thing that's hard for many of us to remember is that inconsistencies like these are way more noticeable to people like us who actually look for details to keep track of for this wiki. Damon and Carlton don't care about details like how long it should take for Sawyer to get from the Temple to the Barracks, because they figure most of the viewers don't care. They just want to focus on the story. As far as I know, they have one person (Gregg Nations) keeping track of continuity details, and you can imagine that one person can easily get things wrong, considering it often takes us a lot of debating back and forth to get things right. --Celebok 18:03, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
• True they can get things wrong, I've always find the timeline odd, since back in season 3 it took Kate, Sayid and Locke days to reach the barracks from the beach camp, and now this season, it seems they can travel to all these places in just about a day. Buffyfan123 23:18, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

The "Day 6 or 7" section

The "Day 6 or 7" section was created for the simple reason that Miles told Sun that Jin "took off yesterday", yet we were not shown when nighttime occurred between the time Jin left the Temple with Kate to the time Sun arrived there. We all have our opinions as to which day certain events probably occurred on, but until we have an agreed upon consensus about placing an event on either specific day, those events should remain in the Day 6 or 7 section. If you feel an event should be moved out of this section and into either the Day 6 section or the Day 7 section, you should discuss it here. In fact, I'll start:

• I think that Kate and Jin escaping from Justin and Aldo, and everything shown before that in "What Kate Does", happened on Day 6. I find it highly unlikely that Justin and Aldo would've agreed to stop and make camp for the night, right after leaving the Temple to go bring back Sawyer, when Dogen emphasized how important it was to bring him back.
• I think most of the events in "Lighthouse", except for possibly Claire rescuing Jin from the bear trap, happened on Day 7. Jack and Hurley, shortly after exiting the Temple, ran into Kate. Hurley gave her simple directions to the secret passageway, suggesting it was nearby. In "Sundown", Kate still hasn't reached the Temple when she runs into Sayid.

--Celebok 18:48, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree that both of those arguments are reasonable, and probably correct. I won't oppose moving those events as you describe, but I also don't want to be counted as a vote in favor of moving them at this point, simply because I personally prefer to take a more conservative route for the time being. Let's see what thoughts other people have, and see if a consensus can be determined. Indigowombat 22:02, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
• On second thought, I do want to vote "opposed" moving any of Claire's storyline from "Lighthouse" to Day 7; your argument is a good case for moving the Jack/Hurley storyline to day 7 seems to hold water pretty well but I don't think it can apply to any of the Claire/Jin scenes in "Lighthouse", though I'm certainly open to being persuaded otherwise if a more compelling argument is presented. Indigowombat 22:14, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

• After thinking (obsessing) about this some more, I've decided to retract my argument for moving "Lighthouse" to Day 7. While we could otherwise conclude that the Jack/Hurley storyline takes place on Day 7, it's just as reasonable to conclude that at least the first part of the Claire/Jin storyline takes place on Day 6. And the thing is, LOST is not in the habit of switching back and forth between two different days without at least a "whoosh" sound and/or a "X days earlier" or "X hours ago" title card, so the fact that "Lighthouse" uses standard scene transitions suggests that these events are happening on the same day... which I personally think is a continuity error, but I have no way to prove it for certain. I suppose it's also slightly plausible that Kate ignored what Jack told her about Claire and spent another day looking for her before running into Sayid; it would explain why she asked Sayid, "What did I miss?" right after she had seemingly just run into Jack and Hurley. Either way, the more I think about this, the more I think the writers simply lost track of what day it was and wrote whatever worked best for each of the characters' stories, hoping we wouldn't notice. --Celebok 00:48, March 17, 2010 (UTC)
  • Kate already told Jack and Hurley that she wasn't going back to the Temple. So there is no error in showing her encounter with Jack and Hurley one day, and showing her change her mind to go back to the Temple the next day. --MrLockeIsAWarrior 16:14, July 7, 2018 (UTC)
  • Fair enough. Personally, I don't think the writers are above playing fast and loose with the supposed simultaneity of the "A" and "B" plots in a given episode, while knowing full well exactly what they're doing, as long as the events of each storyline are entirely independent of one another such that the casual observer wouldn't be able to pick up on what they were doing. Personally, I'm 90%+ sure that the Ilana & co. burying Locke storyline happened a full day before the FLocke recruiting Sawyer storyline in "The Substitute", and they were interleaved in the same episode simply because it was a Locke-centric episode and those two storylines could be thematically tied together by the dead Locke/live FLocke correspondence. I think that the writers are perfectly willing to tell asynchronous stories like that and sweeping it under the rug so only us nitpickers will notice, as long as it suits the storycraft of a particular episode. Thus, the predicament we find ourselves in. Indigowombat 02:26, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

My English is bad, sorry. I think the episodes LAX second part, What Kate does, the Substitute, the Lighthouse and Sundown, occurring the same day but in different time lines: at LAX and find the temple resusita Sayid, Juliet is buried and Sawyer and Miles are trapped by the Others. Then in the next episode of the temple is Sawyer and Kate, Jin, Justin and Aldo van behind him. Kate is with Sawyer and Jin with Claire, I think that Jin and Claire, which occurs in the next chapter, passes to the meeting while Sawyer and Kate. What happens at the same time is also examining Sayid. also what happens at the same time Locke's funeral. After this false Locke's encounter with Sawyer, while Hurley is visited by Jacob and Jack leave the lighthouse. And then comes the end where Sayid falls on the dark side and the false Locke invade the temple. With regard to the sentence of Miles Sun, yesterday I saw your husband alive, it might as it is night, and has passed the next day that if they could be part of the day 7. In my opinion the above happens on Day 6 User:Adrianppaez10:49 March 18, 2010

• Hello, Adrian. Thank you for taking time to talk about this here with us. I understand your confusion now. When Miles says to Sun, "Your husband took off yesterday," the sun has just set a few minutes ago. In English, using the word "yesterday" right after sunset can only refer to the day that was a full 24 hours previously, not to the day that has just ended. If Miles wanted to talk about the day that had just ended, he would still have called it "today." There is no other correct way to interpret his words in English. Thank you for explaining your thoughts! I will have to change the entry back again, because in fact "Sundown" was the second day after Jin left the temple in "What Kate Does." Please do not try to change it back into just one day again. :) Indigowombat 16:01, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
• Indigowombat is correct. Although the above events may have otherwise seemed to occur on the same day, Miles' "yesterday" comment to Sun happened a few minutes after sunset, so we have to assume this is a different day from the day Jin left the Temple. --Celebok 16:34, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

There could not participate in a topic that I find interesting. Perfect let that Jin left the day before, but it seems illogical that Sayid takes a day to demand an explanation to Dogen. So then we can say that the 6x02 and 6x03, occur on the same day, with part of the 6x04, which bury Locke (Day 6). The Day 7 is the other part of the 6x04, 6x05, 6x06 and 6x07 principle. What do you think? On Day 6 or 7 do not really like. We try to match that on day 6 and that 7 is better so the timeline. Thanks for listening. I promise not to change the timeline until we agree. Sorry about my English. `User: Adrianppaez 13:27 March 19, 2010

• Thanks for your comments on this topic. The problem is, from what we've been discussing, it's not enough to say that it "seems illogical" for somebody to do something, as your proof that it didn't happen. All of us, including me, have our ideas as to what things happened on Day 6 and which happened on Day 7, but the truth is, we have no real proof of what happened on which day, because nighttime was never shown between the two days. I agree that the "Day 6 or 7" section doesn't look as good, but it's more accurate to what we actually know for certain, which is the purpose of this wiki. (See the above section titled "Still Day 6" for the discussion that led us to this agreement.) --Celebok 18:05, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

While I still advocate the Day 6 or 7 policy we've been discussing for the official timeline, I've created a page in my own user space that shows my version of Days 6 and 7: User:Celebok/Days_6_and_7. Just for anyone who might be interested. --Celebok 18:22, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with the distinction of days 6 and 7 does Celebok, it seems interesting to have it in mind to pass to the official timeline Lostpedia. What do you think? (My English is improving but still bad) User: Adrianppaez 19:00 March 20, 2010
• Nice work on that timeline variation, Celebok. I also agree with keeping the "Day 6 or 7" policy for now, but your work looks like a good starting point for working on building a consensus, if we can come up with fairly solid arguments for each group of events to back any such consensus up with logic, rather than our intuitions. As far as specifics, only two things jump out at me that I would have differently than in your timeline. After looking at your work, I actually prefer putting most of the Claire/Jin storyline from "Lighthouse" on Day 7 after all, from Jin waking up in the tent onwards. That's based on FLocke's appearance at the end of that group of scenes; I don't like putting that bit before FLocke's scenes with Sawyer in "The Substitute." My earlier concern was based on not wanting to put those scenes on Day 7 just because we had the Jack/Hurley storyline on day 7 as well, since it seemed to me that the writers were jumping around a bit in the timeline within episodes, at least with "The Substitute." But I do think they would show us each individual character's scenes in the order of their experience, so I don't like putting FLocke's scenes out of order as you have it currently. I see you have split up "The Substitute" island storylines into separate days as I indicated a preference for. Shall I take that to mean that you've come around to my way of thinking on the likelihood of the writers playing fast and loose with synching up the timing of separate plotlines within an episode? My only other change I would make to your timeline is fairly cosmetic; although I agree with keeping the events on each day blocked together by episode, even if this probably doesn't reflect the exact linear sequence of events, my preference would be to put the block of Day 6 scenes for "The Substitute" earlier in the queue. Having it between "LA X, Parts 1 & 2" and "What Kate Does" would be my preference. That keeps Ilana's group's departure from the statue reasonably close enough to that group's "LA X, Parts 1 & 2" scenes to suit me. But putting it between "What Kate Does" and "Lighthouse" would work too, especially since that's the order of the episodes anyway. So, there are my thoughts on your work. Thanks again for putting that together for us to look at, and sorry for my chronic long-windedness. That's an issue of mine that it's very difficult for me to change. Indigowombat 09:59, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

• Thanks for your comments on my timeline mockup. The thing is, I don't even have full confidence in my own timeline being accurate enough for the official timeline, as I don't have evidence that's much stronger than that for any of the other suggestions that have been presented. It's still mostly based on what I think makes the most sense for the characters to do, as opposed to evidence for what actually happened. That said, I'll just give my reasoning for why I arranged things the way I did. The thing that convinced me to move the Claire/Jin storyline to Day 6 was the fact that Claire found Justin nearby "just pretending to be dead". Now, if Justin was conscious the whole time, why would he stay there overnight? You'd think he'd run away as soon as Claire wasn't looking. On the other hand, if the bullet wound was severe enough to knock him unconscious, then it's unlikely he'd recover without some medical aid. (The Island only tends to heal non-life-threatening wounds that have been treated, except in rare miraculous cases like Locke and Rose.) There's always the possibility that the bullet simply knocked him back and caused him to hit his head on a rock, knocking him out for several hours, but there's simply no evidence for that, so it's much simpler to assume that Claire found him alive on the same day that she shot him. As for Flocke's appearance in Claire's tent, I did consider the fact that this is shown after his adventure with Sawyer, but I basically figure I can ignore that fact, for the simple reason that this reveal was not shown from Flocke's point of view. I think it's entirely plausible that this could've taken place before he approached Sawyer, since Sawyer wasn't shown when Flocke entered Claire's tent. As for Ilana's group carrying Locke's body from the statue to the gravesite, I'm still undecided on that. I put it on Day 6 just because I don't see why they would just hang around at the statue for a whole day after the Others left. So as you can see, these are all pretty much just arguments for things that I think make the most sense, and not so much evidence for what actually happened on which days, which is why I didn't necessarily present it as suggestions for the official timeline. --Celebok 20:31, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Just wanted to say that if Hurley and Jack left the Temple for the lighthouse on day 6, they certainly didn't stay there until day 8. Currently, we have Hurley waking up on day 8 and Jack and Hurley leaving the lighthouse is listed under either day 6 or 7. If this is the case, then shouldn't Hurley waking up in the morning by the lighthouse and setting off with Jack "to the Temple" be on either day 7 or 8? I realize this would just make things much more confusing, but I thought I'd point it out. --SethFlight815 16:51, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with this point, and I would say it's good evidence to conclude that the Jack/Hurley events in "Lighthouse" take place on Day 7, moreso than complicating things with a "Day 7 or 8" for Jack's dynamite stick challenge. This would mean, however, possibly separating the Jack/Hurley events from the Claire/Jin events in "Lighthouse", as I don't think we have enough evidence to move the Claire/Jin events out of "Day 6 or 7". But I'm okay with moving the Jack/Hurley events to Day 7 if there's a consensus. (Actually, I just noticed I already suggested it above, way back on March 15.) --Celebok 04:22, March 29, 2010 (UTC)
  • Honestly, Celebok, is the only (or at least the primary) reason we currently have the Day 6 or 7 section and not having all the events from LA X through Sundown on Day 6 the "Jin left yesterday" comment Miles made to Sun ? I'm just thinking that at this stage it is highly unlikely that we will get any further information from the show about if this was one day or two since the show has progressed through another Day and I don't think it would be responsible of us Lostpedia editors to not at least definitively guess which day events take place on. An encyclopedia is meant to provide people with definative information as best as possible - not an either or scenario. If Miles comment is the main reason why we have the Day 6/7 section, I would vote to ignore that comment and put all events from LA X through Sundown on Day 6. Again, I just don't think the show will give us anymore light on this, and we can't responsively leave it as is forever. What do you think ? LEHLegacy 13:51, March 29, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
    • As far as I know, we weren't waiting for the show to provide more information about what events happened on which days. I'd pretty much assumed that we had all the information we'd ever have to work with on those two days. Sure, we want to provide accurate information as best as we can, but in this case, we can't narrow it down to the exact day, so as Indigowombat argued above, it's better to indicate what we do know, rather than try to guess. If you look at the timeline for December 2004, it has a "Day 75 to Day 80" section containing a bunch of off-island events that we know happened sometime in that time period, but we have no way of knowing exatly which days they occurred. It would be ridiculous to try to claim an exact day that Michael tried to kill himself or Miles got recruited, without any evidence to indicate the day, so we give it the best narrowed-down range of days that we know it could've happened. And yes, Miles' comment about Jin taking off "yesterday" is enough evidence to indicate that a day has passed, because there is no other conflicting evidence to indicate that all those events happened on the same day. --Celebok 17:34, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
      • I find your comments here, Celebok, to be quite contradictory. You say it's better to indicate what we do know rather than to guess, but by creating an extra day in light of Miles' comment to Sun all you are doing now is in fact GUESSING when the day break occurred and which events occurred in Day 6 and which occurred in Day 7 - follow me ? Since the confusion over this matter, the show has shown us two more full days complete with day and night scenes. Do you really think they just had no night scenes on Day 6 as the time line currently indicates ? This is a show that has without question presented contradictory information in the past and so therefore I think it's completely plausible for us to throw away Miles' comment and keep all events from LA X through Sundown on Day 6. Can we have a vote on this ? (I don't know how to do the voting buttons) LEHLegacy 12:47, March 31, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
        • It's not contradictory at all. The whole point of the Day 6 or 7 section is to avoid guessing, for the cases that we don't know. But you're arguing for keeping all of those events on the same day, based on the lack of an observed nighttime scene and a subsequent assumption that Miles' "yesterday" comment was wrong. To me, Miles' comment overrides the lack of a nighttime scene. Just because we didn't see night doesn't mean it didn't happen, whereas we heard Miles say that Jin took off "yesterday". If there was something else blatantly contradicting the notion that an extra day had passed, then we could argue that Miles was wrong, but as far as I know, there isn't. If you wish to further argue this point, then please start a new section on this page. This section is for suggesting which events belong in the Day 6 or 7 section and which ones don't. --Celebok 17:29, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Day 8

Is looking long too. If we are to presume the show only shows us events in linear fashion, consider the following. On the same day Jack travels from somewhere near the Lighthouse, to the Black Rock and back to the beach camp (as shown in Exodus S1 finale it takes a full day to walk to the Black Rock and back alone). Then again, if the show is linear before night falls we get all of Sawyer's adventures in Recon - going to Hydra and back - AFTER THE EVENTS OF DR LINUS all by nightfall when he talks with Kate by the campfire and a similar scene plays out on the main island. So, did the show mean to show the events of Recon as happening simultaneously with the events of Dr. Linus ? I would agree - therefore that could add some validity to Celebok's notion of putting some of the events of the Subsitute out of order with it's adjacent episodes. LEHLegacy 16:13, March 24, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

Day 9 or Day 10

• I want to make the argument here, that the we saw a scene out of order in Ab Aeterno and The Package. When Seamus is watching Widmore's camp prior to abducting Jin at the beginning of The Package, I believe that this is the night of Day 8 (the same day that Sawyer had his convo in the sub with Widmore) and that this event is happening roughly at the same time th Richard storms off from the beach camp in Ab Aeterno. In this scenario, Richard and Hurley reach the grove on the morning of Day 9 at around the same time that Jack is having his convo with Sun in the garden.

A counterargument has been made that since it was morning at the end of Ab Aeterno and that we saw an evening to start The Package that an entire day has passed in which we did not see anything. This is problematic across many levels, mainly that in this scenario, Richard take the entire Day 9 and a night and some of the next day to arrive back at the beach camp (it's defiantly early morning when Richard arrives at the grove as the sun is low). Secondly, it seems safe to assume that when Sawyer brings Kate 'cocco' at the beginning of 06x10, this is happening immediately after the convo they had to end 6x08. The show has a history of jumping around in time and I make the argument that in this episode alone, the Sun and Jin story in the sideways world starts on Sept 22, 2004 when we know undoubtedly that previous episodes this season in the flash sideways world have progressed as far as 2 days later. LEHLegacy 12:37, April 1, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

• Unless we are specifically told otherwise we are to assume that present day events in episode 10 would follow present day events in episode 9, rather than occurring simultaneously. Assuming they occur simultaneously is 100% conjecture and speculation, and events don't magically happen at the same time in different episodes just because you want them to. Also we have no idea how far inland Richard's cross was buried, so it's perfectly acceptable that it took a day or two for he and Hurley to get out there and back. If we are told different that's another story but for now it is what it is, and we need to follow the chronology of events, which places the events of 6x10 after the events of 6x09 by simple logic.

Also, just because I see this all the time and it bugs the crap out of me, it's "definitely" not "defiantly." InflatableBombshelter 14:56, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with LEHLegacy on this issue. In this case, it is just as much speculation to say that Jin's capture occurred a full day later than it is to say that it happened on the night Richard ran off into the jungle. The reason is simply that "Ab Aeterno" gave no coverage of Flocke's group's story, so we can deduce that "The Package" is picking up where that story left off at the end of "Recon", This is, in fact, consistent with how the various characters' storylines have been presented this season -- Ilana's group is at the statue in 6.02, not seen in 6.03, then 6.04 picks up where that storyline left off. Claire finds Jin in the bear trap at the end of 6.03, then we continue that storyline two episodes later in 6.05. Jack and Hurley are not seen in 6.06, so their story picks up in 6.07 where it left off in 6.05. Flocke's group in 6.10 would be no different. Putting the raid on Flock's camp after the morning of the Hurley/Richard/Isabella encounter means that basically nothing happened with either group for a full day. --Celebok 17:44, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • Doh! I think I might've shot myself in the foot when I claimed that "Ab Aeterno" has no coverage of Flocke's story. I forgot that Flocke shows up for a few brief seconds, standing alone on a ridge at a distance after Hurley tells Richard that they have to stop the Man in Black. If Flocke left his camp the night before to go talk to Sun, then his standing-on-the-ridge scene happened either while he was on his way to talk to Sun or on his way back, which is a bit confusing. He could be multitasking, but... ugh... I don't know now. --Celebok 20:56, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Celebok, I don't see any issue with FLocke overseeing the Richard Hurley convo on the way to/back his recruitment trip with Sun. His is a smoke monster after all who can fly around so time to distance traveled isn't really an issue for him. That was really compelling evidence to leave the timeline as is in regards to the Ilana's group - thanks for pointing that out. The show has done that for season's where we don't see a group for a while and we have to assume when we pick them up again that we are at least picking them at a reasonable time after we saw them last. One very good example comes to mind with Locke at the start Season 3. We don't see him in the season till 6x03 (after the Sun/Jin/Sayid v Others shootout and Jack and company's first day at Hyrda), but we have to presume that Locke's story is picking up the day after the hatch explosion when Charlie tells him that he's been gone a whole day (hatch explosion happens at night). LEHLegacy 12:22, April 5, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

Outrigger Use

I am trying to document the use of outriggers on an event by event basis, for another purpose.

I understand that the outriggers are not people, but they are an important line to follow in the documentation of events, as they provide 'infills':

• (a) How did Flocke get to the Hydra in the first place? Was this on a canoe?
• (b) How were there two canoes for Sawyer & Juliet to steal at the Beach camp?
• (c) where did the canoe come from that Sawyer, Flocke & Sayid took to the Hydra? Was this one the canoe left at the Dharma Barracks by Sun?

Any objections to incorporating some of this?--Sean Sheep 12:42, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

• Well Frank came back to the Island in the outrigger that he and Sun used to head over to the main Island in Namaste, however I believe this same outrigger is the one Ilana and her group use to the Locke's body and Frank over to the main Island in the Season 5 finale. Therefore by my count there should be 1 canoe still at the DHARMA dock (the one FLocke and Ben used) and one at the shore wherever Ilana and her group disembarked, so yes I believe there is a problem here. LEHLegacy 14:41, April 1, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
  • There were three canoes together on the Hydra island at the time of the Ajira crash. Frank and Sun took one to the Barracks dock. Flocke and Ben took another one and docked it at the same dock. (We see Frank and Sun's canoe still there.) Frank takes the first canoe back to Hydra Island, arriving just in time for Ilana to knock him out. Ilana takes the third canoe (not the one Frank just brought back) with Frank and the Ajira crate, to some random beach on the main island and leaves it there. The next time we see the Barracks dock (when Sawyer throws the ring in the water), Ben and Flocke's canoe should still be there, but it isn't. This canoe has mysteriously gone missing, so we need to assume either it drifted off, somebody took it, or it's a production error. Flocke's group later makes camp near the canoe that Ilana came in, and this is the canoe that Flocke, Sawyer, and Sayid use. How Flocke got to the Hydra island in the first place has yet to be explained. Since Frank and Sun heard the smoke monster when they got to the Barracks on the first night, the same night that Flocke is discovered by the Ajira survivors, he had to have somehow taken another boat of some kind without being seen. And obviously, we still have yet to see any canoes show up at the original beach camp in order for the time-travelling chase to play out. --Celebok 18:02, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree about the canoe at the Barracks Dock. That seems to have gone missing. I suspected that this was the canoe that Sawyer and Locke are using to get over to the Hydra, and this would be explained by the fact that Flocke brought it over. However, we can't be sure. You might be right in thinking that that one was Ilana's. You are certainly right that the Ilana canoe ended up at some random beach and not at the beach camp. There is still a canoe on the Hydra somewhere. Maybe this is being used by Zoe's team.
    • At some point, 2 canoes have to end up at the beach camp, one of which will be taken by the time-travelling losties (Sawyer & Juliet & Miles), and the other by either Ilana's group, Locke's group or Zoe's group who chase them, and one person gets shot. The canoe taken by Sawyer & Juliet then ends up near to where Danielle's crew landed. However, that was 1988, and it would mean that the canoe has been around for 16 years, and is still seaworthy. If it is, that could also account for the canoe which is being used by FLocke. It travelled back in time. This complicates things no end, because it means currently there are N canoes; when the time travelling event is reached, one of these will disappear, and there will be N-1. --Sean Sheep 23:09, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

• • Did you just expand the timeline to Day 13 ?!?!?!?! Days 1-5 happen CONCURRENTLY b/w 1977 and 2007 - pls change it back.LEHLegacy 12:59, April 1, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
    • not as far as I am aware; I merely changed a few Hyrdas to Hydras. Not me guv.--Sean Sheep 13:11, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
    • I believe it was Kriton--Sean Sheep 13:13, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
      • I agree - I just reached out to him LEHLegacy 13:25, April 1, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

Season 6 Varying Length of Days

Just to point out - how ridiculous is it that the first 6 days episodes of the season only spanned 1 (or 2 depending on what camp you are in) days while the last 4/5 have taken place in just as many days. The worst offense was in "The Candidate". The group from the Elizabeth is captured by Zoe and by the time they are brought the polar bear cages on small Hydra Island it is dark out. The Monster comes and they are freed and the next scene it is the next morning as they travel towards the plane. When all goes down on the submarine and the remaining survivors wash ashore it is dark out. Now the distances traveled could not be far since they all occur on Hydra Island and the sub drama could have only played out for just a couple of minutes given the circumstances - I believe we say all that had happened. So how the heck was this day so short ? LEHLegacy 18:10, May 5, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

Are we really sure of the date of Ajira 316?

Please see the discussion at Talk:Ajira_Flight_316#December_28.2C_2007. I'm not convinced that we have enough conclusive evidence for an exact date of Ajira Flight 316, and someone has edited the timeline to reflect the suggested date. --Celebok 23:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

• That's interesting. Now let's say we entertain the notion that 5x01 takes place on Dec 23, wouldn't that give a little more creedance to Locke's passport ? That would be two ODDLY UNIQUE prop errors to just throw aside...LEHLegacy 21:14, June 25, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
  • Not really. Locke's passport was dated December 12, 2007, just 11 days before the proposed date of 5x01. Jack said that Locke visited him "about a month ago". This is what led people to conclude that these off-island events took place in 2008 in the first place, which we now know is false. --Celebok 18:09, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
    • I know it's just a really strange coincidence. TLADOJB was shot in Late 2008 I presume, so they wouldn't just use the Dec 2007 dated passport without a reason. But i know for DL said that off-island is 2007, so either the date on the passport is unforgiving wrong (how can they go out of their way to present a date on the passport that is wrong?) or Jack's about a month ago is way off. LEHLegacy 14:02, June 30, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
      • It is entirely plausible that the prop department would make that particular mistake and for it to slip through. Damon and Carlton probably just told the prop department to create a Canadian passport with Locke's picture and the name Jeremy Bentham, and when asked what the date should be, they probably just said, "It doesn't matter, just make it sometime in 2007." And with more important things on their minds, it probably didn't even occur to them that they needed to consult Gregg Nations to make sure the date didn't conflict with any other details. And voila, we end up with a December 2007 passport. --Celebok 03:50, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

New Man in Charge

Where did we get the date of 2010 for this episode from ? MR IRISH 22:30, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

• I'm guessing whoever added it interpreted "Present Day" as the actual present day, 2010. Unless there's some other official source that I'm unaware of. --Celebok 09:48, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
• Watched the episode again, there's a print out with a 2010 date on it in the first part of the episode. MR IRISH 14:28, September 19, 2010 (UTC)