Talk: Through the Looking Glass

Flashback

What is so significant of "Jack" that he should get a season finale that's two hours long,, I don't see how his back story would support this... Last season we got an unknown character to be (Desmond) to have the whole finale,, but Jack.. It should be one of the others or DHARMA its self... I know we will get an episode about Ben before the finale,, but we won't see Jacob or the DeGroots (according to the cast call),, what do you think ? --mo-- (^Talk | ) 16:30, 23 April 2007 (PDT)

I'm crossing my fingers that we get Jack flashbacks about his time in the barracks before Par Avion. I don't know if they could do two hours of it, but they could probably think of something interesting. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 16:32, 23 April 2007 (PDT)
Agreed. How many flashjacks do we really need? HelloJohn 14:28, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

Why also do people suddenly think Jack is going to die in this episode? There really would be no reason for him to, and if he wasn't signed on for season 4 we'd know about it by now. Also, Jack's time in the barracks seems like it could be rather uninteresting. I feel as though, unless Jack is hiding something and he's working for the Others or something of that nature, he could have easily already told us all that happened while he was there: they cut him a deal and he waited to be let off the island. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Imm427 (talk • contribs) 10:45, 27 April 2007 (PDT).

You hit the nail on the head with that last sentence, which is why I think Jack is almost certainly loyal to The Others at this point. Lindelof said that the finale would "seal (the writers) fate" as far as the direction of the show, so they clearly have some major paradigm shift planned. It would be structurally appropriate if the info revealed to the viewers is the same info that causes Jack to defect...possibly involving Room 23 or Jacob. Speaking of which, is there any precedent for a guest star to be uncredited for surprise value, i.e., might Jacob or John Terry still appear in this episode? --Rowsdower 08:47, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
- Buddy TV ran a recent interview with Francois Chau, who plays Marvin Candle, and he said that when he first appeared in the orientation films, he was not credited as such to add to the mystery of his character. So they have done it before.
It's worth noting that the credits for the season finale include Two Doctors, a Pharmacist, a Customer, and a Funeral Director. Sounds to me, especially considering the Funeral Director, that we'll be getting more insight on the events following his father's (Christian Shephard's) death. Then again, this could be another case of misdirection by the producers. Timbenj77 16:14, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
The only other thing to consider is that characters tend to die in their own centric episodes, e.g., Shannon, Ana-Lucia, Eko.

I wisht that it would be an everybody flashback like exodus part 1 and 2--ConnerXcountry57 06:37, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The flashback this episode confused me. It is supposed to be a flash-forward but Jack made several references about his father, which just confuses me. I think that was the reason why the producers didn't decide to make a podcast after this episode. --|MMORTAL /\LIEN 20:54, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

It is possible that Jack is dellusional due to his drinking/oxy use that he doesn't remember that his father is dead.

Alice reference

The title is, I think, a reference to the Alice in Wonderland sequel, Through the Looking Glass. --JohanTenge 07:45, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

The only other title my friend an I can think of is the white rabbit. This episode Through the Looking Glass, and The White Rabbit, both have coffins in them. How often to coffins appear? --d34dl0k1

There is much more to it than that. The characters in the book are chess pieces with Alice agreeing to be the white queen's pawn. The book is full of mirror analogies and pairs of things (opposites and twins). Alice is caught up in a chess game run by powerful yet irrational beings which she cannot control and cannot understand.

It also deals with notions of irregular time and memory (something like the flashes):
---(From Chapter 5 - Alice and the Queen)----
I don't understand you,' said Alice. `It's dreadfully confusing!'
`That's the effect of living backwards,' the Queen said kindly:
`it always makes one a little giddy at first --
`Living backwards!' Alice repeated in great astonishment. `I never heard of such a thing!'
` -- but there's one great advantage in it, that one's memory works both ways.'
`I'm sure MINE only works one way.' Alice remarked. `I can't remember things before they happen.'
`It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' the Queen remarked.
`What sort of things do YOU remember best?' Alice ventured to ask.
`Oh, things that happened the week after next,' the Queen replied in a careless tone. `For instance, now,' she went on, sticking a large piece of plaster [band-aid] on her finger as she spoke, `there's the King's Messenger. He's in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn't even begin till next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.'
`Suppose he never commits the crime?' said Alice.
`That would be all the better wouldn't it?' the Queen said, as she bound the plaster round her finger with a bit of ribbon.
Dharmatel4 08:32, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

Just watched The Man Behind The Curtain, and when Ben saw his mother through the sonic barrier, i thought she looked a bit like Alice, and that was before i new the title of this episode Wilko 08:52, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Sarah Shephard

Julie Bowen should be added to the cast list. --Presariocompaq 08:53, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

Episode synopsis is out

The synopsis is out, and will come on abcmedianet sometime around next week or so. This probaly have to be a Jack-episode as mention before.

"Jack and the castaways begin efforts to make contact with Naomi's rescue ship" Source: WCHSTV

Press release

Question: does the ABC Medianet press release come out tomorrow (May 7) or next week? Thanks. Evil-pineapples 11:18, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

It should be out tomorrow. --Marik7772003 11:19, 6 May 2007 (PDT)
Do they usually release the guest cast list? To keep finale's 'hush hush'? --Lewis -Talk-Contribs 03:28, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
What time does it normally come out?--Presariocompaq 11:54, 7 May 2007 (PDT)
SEASON FINALE

JACK AND HIS FELLOW SURVIVORS BEGIN THEIR EFFORTS TO MAKE CONTACT WITH NAOMI'S RESCUE SHIP, ON THE SEASON FINALE OF ABC'S "LOST" "Through the Looking Glass" - Jack and the castaways begin their efforts to make contact with Naomi's rescue ship, on the season finale of "Lost," WEDNESDAY, MAY 23 (9:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

"Lost" stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Elizabeth Mitchell as Juliet, Dominic Monaghan as Charlie and Terry O'Quinn as Locke.

Guest starring are M.C. Gainey as Mr. Friendly/Tom, Tania Raymonde as Alex, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Blake Bashoff as Karl, Andrew Divoff as Mikhail, Ariston Greene as Jason, Sonya Walger as Penny, Mira Furlan as Rousseau, Brian Goodman as Pryce, Marsha Thomason as Naomi, L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Sam Anderson as Bernard, Lana Parilla as Greta, Tracy Middendorf as Bonnie, James Lesure as Dr. Hamill, Nigel Gibbs as funeral director, Loreni Delgado as pharmacist, Larry Clarke as customer and Kate Connor as doctor.

"Through the Looking Glass" was written by Carlton Cuse & Damon Lindelof and directed by Jack Bender.

"Lost" is broadcast in 720 Progressive (720P), ABC's selected HDTV format, with 5.1-channel surround sound and Spanish audio via SAP. --Presariocompaq 12:40, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Link to press release ABC Medianet LOST Season Finale Press Release-- Daniel Helen talk contribs email 12:45, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Thanks we'll update the pages immediately --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:49, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Penny's grouped with the islanders!!! --Blueeagle islander 01:52, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

OMIGOSH she is! Right in between the Others and Rousseau! How cozy! =] (Isolation815 07:57, 15 May 2007 (PDT))

Problem

"Jason" should be linked to Jason (Other), not the disambig page --Blueeagle islander 01:56, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

Christian Shepard

anyone notice someone missing from the guest cast? -brianopp 12:33, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

I saw that an actor is credited as "funeral director" so was associating that with Jack's father's death and assumed his flashback is sometime after Christian Sheppard has died. Maybe before he goes to pick up his father's body he makes the arrangements? Who knows, just guessing at this point. --Stripes 19:29, 15 May 2007 (PDT)
- The funeral director is really Jacob! --Zicsoft 12:17, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
By the way, with Christian, Jack said he was in the same hospital as him, and that the supervisor should see if he's as drunk as Jack is. If this was a flash forward episode, Christian wouldn't be there. Right? Well, I believe that Jack was so hopped on oxy and alcohol, he simply was a little nuts and not thinking straight. I just wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way.The-room 23:17, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Greta and Bonnie

Whoever these two are, they appear in both Greatest Hits and Through the Looking Glass.--Theslate 13:24, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

They are most likely Others--Phil (talk) 13:45, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

They are most likely not. --Apollo Candy 07:18, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

They are most likely human. --KennyRogersDairyChallenge 21:38, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

They are the Two Women that were in the looking glass--The one and only ConnerXcountry57 06:34, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Episode Title Incorrect?

This Entertainment Weekly Article states that the season finale is entitled "The rattlesnake in the mailbox'", not "Through The Looking Glass". KC 14:41, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

QUESTION: Is it true that the season finale for this season has been given the codename The Rattlesnake? LINDELOF: The rattlesnake in the mailbox is the full name.

I think that Lindelof's sentence means: "'The rattlesnake in the mailbox' is the FULL NAME of our CODENAME, and not only 'The Rattlesnake'". I also think that "Through the Looking Glass" title is confirmed by ABC. --Andreapasotti 23:52, 8 May 2007 (Italy)

Yeah, "Through the Looking Glass, Part 1" is the title of the episode. Check the press release. --Marik7772003 14:54, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

Also, "The snake in the mailbox" is the codename for the climax SCENE IN the season finale. --Darkmaster 16:08, 8 May 2007 (PDT)

If you've listened to any of the podcasts, Carlton and Damon say they always name their finales with a code name. Last year it was "The Challah". Some type of Jewish bread, of all things. This year they named it "The rattlesnake in the mailbox" because Carlton equated the finale with someone putting a snake in your mailbox - something sick and twisted and way out there for someone to do, and also what they have planned for the finale.

The question is: Is the rattlesnake metaphor a reference to the fact that the Losties are planting dynamite in their tents, or something else?

Its not the dynamite in the tents. Its something else. In the podcast yesterday they said that some things will be clear after the episode but other things will be open to interpretation. They also made the comment that if Jack's plan with the tents were successful, he would have personal reasons to regret it later. Dharmatel4 08:26, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Penny?

So, Penny's in the cast list. Do you think she's in the episode or Jack's flashbacks? Either way it's pretty interesting. Arrowoftime 13:37, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

There is also the ship floating out there. Dharmatel4 21:07, 13 May 2007 (PDT)

Penny in a Jack flashback?

I can't see any reason for this!Because the only time they came close to meeting,was outside the stadium,before Jack met Desmond,and you can see him pull up when Desmond is taliking to Penny,and given that they were complete strangers at the time,and judging by the personal nature of Penny and Des's exchange,he wouldn't have just randomly gotten involved.Jack may have recognised her upon seeing her again at a later time,but given how invested Penny was in their conversation,it is unlikely that she would be paying attention to what was going on in the background,ergo she probably wouldn't have noticed anyone coming or going,so probably wouldn't recognise Jack,and furthermore,how would she know if Desmond had talked to Jack,or if they even interacted on any way?Thats why I strongly believe that Penny will finally find the island.She'll find it,but may get stuck there with everyone else.At least if that happens,Desmond will cheer up,and stop being so bloody intense!

--Lorcan 03:05, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

We saw Penny in the finale last year at the very end, she was not in anyone's flashback and was not on the island. She was in bed at home answering the phone call from the guys at the arctic station who had detected the anomaly. So it could be something similar.

Fear

I was reading press realeases.

In ABC 5-09-2007 you can read "[...] with the series concluding in 2009-10 with a highly anticipated and shocking finale".
From Entertainment Weekly Article. QUESTION: "Will the flashback structure be part of the show going forward?" LINDELOF: Let's have that conversation after the finale."
Cuse and Lindelof saying that we'll know why the show can't last more than 48 episodes.

In my opinion they are related, and not just because they are about the season's finale. I think the most disturbing thing is the "highly anticipated", in ABC press. It's like this season's finale will be interrupted by a "time-travel" and we will know the ending only in 2009-2010's finale.

...But what about the "flashback structure"? We can interpret Lindelof's comment in, at least, two ways: in the next seasons there will be no more flashbacks or that what we call (and appears like) flashbacks are something other.

...Besides there is the "game-changing" thing (related to one of the major characters)...

-- Andreapasotti 15:56, 12 May 2007 (Italy)

They have run out of flashbacks for the major survivor characters. And the reaction to Nikki and Paulo means they can't introduce new minor characters with flashbacks among the survivors. They can still do flashbacks, but probably not at the old rate. Dharmatel4 21:05, 13 May 2007 (PDT)

Evangeline was on Regis this morning and she said that the finale would be a total game-changer, and you would then definitely know in that reveal where the story was headed. (Isolation815 10:28, 21 May 2007 (PDT))

In response to Dharmatel4, I sincerely hope the Nikki/Paulo debacle hasn't scared TPTB into not introducing new crash survivors anymore. They could still pull it off, only they'd need to be much -- MUCH -- more careful about how they handle it. With Nikki and Paulo, you got the distinct feeling that they'd just been plopped in there with no fanfare or anything. If something momumental were to happen involving a new crash survivor in the very episode they were introduced, then they would be much more interesting. Especially if they were treated like guest stars (a la Arzt and Ethan from season one) beforehand. Just how I would run the show... And pertaining to the main topic, I agree that it seems they've run out of flashback stories, unless they're holding back something huge. Sayid's mysterious incident in Basra, Desmond's dishonourable discharge, and perhaps Sawyer's involvement in the Tampa Job are all the major stories I can think of that they have left. If Michael and Walt do end up coming back as is rumored, then there's some serious flashback potential there (and not just because they've been gone all this time; they have a surprisingly empty backstory when compared to the other characters). Incidentally, has anyone else noticed how dry Kate's flashbacks have become as of late? Evil-pineapples 13:49, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

I'd just like to point out that there are several background characters on the show already who have serious flashback potential - Richard Alpert, Tom, and Naomi for example, not to mention other characters like Ben who have had one or two flashbacks but still have a wealth of flashbackage to explore. They could easily find 16 episode's worth of material, but hey, maybe they want to quit while they're ahead.

'Twas the night before Christmas?

I'm betting the events of this double-episode will occur on christmas eve. As I'm writing this "The Man Behind the Curtain" has just aired which takes place on December 22nd and early December 23rd. Personally this would have lead me to believe that the season 3 finale would occur on christmas day but in the 3-30-07 Lost Official Podcast they confirmed that the survivors will celebrate christmas sometime in season 4. Who else can see something shocking and final happening in this episode (most likely a death or two, maybe a minor war) which will lead to either a very sad or very joyful christmas day celebration in season 4 episode 1? --Laika 02:30, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

As I mentioned in the Greatest Hits discussion page, I'd like to remind everyone of what happened on the 26/12/04 too: check here... They haven't ruled out including this in the islands events... --Sixtyten 08:01, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

Unless the Island moves into the Indian ocean, I dont see the relevance. I don't remember the Tsunami or the earthquakes affecting the western pacific. Dharmatel4 09:11, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Well, how did the beechcraft disappear over the ATLANTIC and end up on the island??? (Isolation815 00:05, 16 May 2007 (PDT))

Who it says it disappeared over the Atlantic, it could of disappeared once it left Nigeria. --Blueeagle islander 00:16, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

There is no way to explain the beechcraft right now. The plane doesn't have the range to fly anywhere useful over the ocean from Nigeria. Even if the Island can move, there is no good explaination (yet) for how the plane could get there. Dharmatel4 11:11, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

The island is apparently controlled by an organization that can create a wrecked plain at the bottom of the ocean - complete with bodies. Assuming they can read minds to some degree, how hard would it be for them to get a beechcraft to the isand and fill it with drugs and a corpse dressed as a priest? --Doc 10:51, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Confirmed (sort of)

My friend got the Official Lost Magazine the other day and someone on set (Matthew Fox?) is quoted saying that Jack would have another flaskback before the end of the season... Will try to confirm/find out more. =] (Isolation815 07:54, 15 May 2007 (PDT))

NO SPOILERS ON THE THEORIES PAGE

This is getting ridiculous. Many people keep posting spoilers and/or theories based on said spoilers in the theories page. Please, please post these spoilers on the designated spoilers page instead of in the theories section. The theories section is for just that: THEORIES. Thank you. Evil-pineapples 18:25, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Flashback confirmation?

Everyone keeps talking about how this episode features Jack flashbacks. Has this been confirmed anywhere official? I'm just wondering, because it doesn't seem like a unique way to do the flashbacks as they've done in the past two seasons (ie: every character getting a flashback, and Desmond getting flashbacks). And, to be frank, I'm kinda tired of the ammount of flashbacks Jack gets. Maybe Sarah will be showing up from someone else's POV?Jimbo the tubby 01:27, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Due to some recent spoilers, there's a fair chance they will be Jack-centric, but they'll give the series a whole new look. If you don't mind spoilers, check out Season 3/spoilers and look at the bottom of the table --Blueeagle islander 01:38, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Although the page for the episode lists the "centric" information as being unconfirmed, Jack's page lists "Through the Looking Glass" as one of his flashback episodes. If there is a contradiction in that, there's about 30 hours to correct it at this writing.

Promo of the Episode

Trailer on YouTube

Evangeline talks about finale, says reveal gave her "goosebumps."

Interview here. (She went blonde!) This finale is gonna be SO AWESOME... (Isolation815 07:41, 17 May 2007 (PDT))

Canadian airing

From the Lostpedia page: In Canada the show will air in two parts, Part 1 at 7/6c and Part 2 at 10/9c, either side of the American Idol finale. Not true, CTV affiliates aren't syndicated. The western half of Canada pushes the Idol finale back an hour and airs Lost at 11/10c, right after it finishes on ABC. Basically, Canadians should check your local listings, as CTV can't seem to find a timeslot for Lost (it gets bumped around every week. For western viewers anyways.) Also, "Lost: The Answers" airs at 10:15 central on CTV tonight. (Isolation815 09:35, 17 May 2007 (PDT))

YES this is so true for example its on at 6PM in the St. John St. Steven area or NB on CTV its very tempting to watch at that time. I live in the states however CTV was part of my regular lineup at college.

Wouldn't it be awesome if you lived up in Montana or North Dakota or something, and you could watch LOST two hours earlier than everyone else on the CTV signal picked up from Manitoba? Evil-pineapples 13:51, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Tsunami

The date during this episode corresponds with the date of the Tsunami. If the Tsunami dosnt hit or they dont feel an earthquake, maybe then it would prove that time passes diferently on the island!--ConnerXcountry57 07:53, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Or it would prove that the productionteam forgot about of it, it's a little farfetched. --TiZon 08:35, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

As has been said before, the Island isn't in the Indian Ocean or near Indonesia. Unless the Island suddenly moves around in the ocean to be near the area where the Tsunami occured, it will have no effect on the Island at all. Dharmatel4 09:09, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Well there is a Sri Lanka orientation video , it would be awesome if the island was what caused the tsunami !—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Suricate (talk • contribs) .

Well, the tsunami happened on December 26, 2004 [1]. But the day Greatest Hits happened was December 22. In order to match the tsunami, four days should pass in this episode. Also, it should be noted there are hints that Christmas (December 25) will be celebrated in season 4. So the tsunami can't really happen in this episode. Roozbeh 11:33, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

A tsunami. Can you imagine a huge wave powersledding over Locke. He hears a rustling in the bushes. He takes out his knife and turns around... and then a huge freaking wave of water and broken strewn DHARMA-labeled miscellani knocks him right on his butt. Cue to black. End of season. --Mindfucker 14:24, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

UK Airing

The Sky One listings show that the finale will start at 10:00pm and end at 12:00am Sky One Lisitngs. But there is no mention of an airing of Lost: The Answers at any time during the week. -- Daniel Helen talk contribs email 09:21, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

It's also in two parts (UK also has "Live Together, Die Alone, Part 1" and "Exodus, Part 2" in two parts). >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 01:43, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Are these things usually shown on UK television? I'm not sure they are. They're usually just clip-shows and filler anyway.Liquidcow 04:53, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

According to Airdates, all clip-shows were aired other than "Lost: Revelation" and "Lost: Reckoning". Don't think the ones that were shown were ever aired with good timeslots though. >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 07:08, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

No we dont usually get the clip shows, we got the last one but i dont think it did too well in the ratings, so i think we just wont show them anymore. Maybe we can follow lost better than you guys who need reminding every few weeks :p (joke!! :D)--Lewis -Talk-Contribs 08:40, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Claire

It's gonna be a Claire flashback. You can take that to the bank.

Why-oh-why are you so sure? My bank tells me 'insufficient funds available', and that Claire info is the problem. Most signs are pointing to a Jack flashback, but I kind of hope you're right, as it would be nice to see a less central character having a nice twist to their backstory (other than Claire being Jack's half-brother and all that jazz). --[Lewis] 12:32, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Highly doubt that the FINALE would be Claire, but she might be incorperated into it.

--Apollo Candy 06:25, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Well, I took it to the bank, and now my account's overdrawn. Thanks a lot. Fat Burger 12:30, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Their's no rule against having two people flashback. Since Claire and Jack are related, they could do both if they wanted to. That's what we call creative freedom.

Actually, I think revealing the Claire-Jack relation would be plausible.. Although one out of many. --Joffeloff 17:24, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Trivia

"Through the Looking Glass" (2002) is also an album by the band Toto. Diamon 06:03, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

WHY DID CHARLIE CROSS HIMSELF WITH HIS LEFT HAND??

Did any other recovering Catholics catch that?---Ersatz723 21:04, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Portals in the Looking Glass

Now, Charlie is a skinny little guy, why does he not swim out the porthole that exploded after the grenade? I understand he couldn't while water was pouring in, but once it equals out, he would have been able to fit, I'm waiting for screen shots, but I'm fairly certain it was large enough for him. Any thoughts? --Suddud (Talk) 21:05, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

I was saying the same thing to my girfriend while we watched it (she was too busy bawling over Charlie's death to notice).--Spacemonkey420 22:25, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The more I think about this, the less I like it. The room's airtight, I guess, which is the point of Charlie closing the door to keep the water out of the rest of the hatch. So, once Charlie closes the door, the only way for air to get out is the window. So, once the water level rose above the window, bam, no more water could come in. It's the same principle as the sub dock. Plenty of air to breathe. Now they did do a bit of homework. Charlie had to shut the door, because a hole in the side of the hatch would mean air would go OUT that way as the hatch flooded through the sub dock, and it would have been fast and catastrophic. But for Charlie's solution to work, he would still have air at the top of the room. And when the water stopped entering, he could have hyperventilated and headed for the surface. Neither he nor Desmond had any guarantees that someone else wasn't on the beach waiting for Mikhail, but Charlie wouldn't have chanced it? Of course he would.Boloboffin 04:48, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Flashback vs. Flash-forward

Did anyone else get the feeling that this was shot to give the impression that the events taking place on the Island were actually the flashback, and Jack was in real-time? Wondering if this may be a new format for some episodes in Season 4. I recall someone stating the creators were going to be doing things in new format, and jumping the show into the future and then flashing back to the Island would be one way of doing this. Not sure if you could pump out 2 more seasons worth of showing how the survivors deal in the real world after rescue. Just a thought. --Suddud (Talk) 21:19, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The funeral-home where the unidentified dead man's wake was held: Hoffs/Drawlar. Anagram hidden in the name? "Flash Forward." Brilliant. — Tonyfuchs1019 01:02, 24 May 2007 (EST)

Whose funeral?

Can anyone tell from the newspaper clipping whose funeral Jack was attending. At the very start of the episode, it looks like the paper is in position to read it, but I can't make anything out on a 32 inch screen. Maybe someone out there with a bigger screen can enlighten? AmarilloLostFan 21:26, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

From what I could make it out, the obituary says something like, "Man found in lot" and under the headline there is a name that begins with a J. I'm betting Sawyer. Though the coffin looked really small. Themildassassin 21:31, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Yea, I just watched the scene where he pulls his vehicle up to the funeral home, and it confirms that it was a man. I'm still trying to pause it just right to be able to read it all, or at least a name. I can also make out the words "downtown" and "Los Angeles" from the newspaper clipping. AmarilloLostFan 21:34, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

It's bent right at start of the name so you can only make up the J, they defiantly set the shot up to give us alittle but not too much. John Locke or James Ford, both would have empty wakes, no family/no friends. My mother also pointed out that it looked like an African American community, but I think that just misdirection. Themildassassin 21:41, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

As best as I could make out in HD and 120" screen, the article said:

LOS ANGELES

Man found dead in downtown loft.

The body of J(o/e)-- ---antham of New York was found shortly after 4 a.m. in the ---- of Grand Avenue.

The -----------------------------at The Tower?- --(unreadable) loud (unreadable) -- loft C --- (unreadable line) --- the --- a beam in the ---. unreadable line --- unreadable line --- --- condition (unreadable)--- unreadable line --- unreadable line ---

That was all I could make out for sure. There is a out of focus, straight on shot of the article when Jack is listening to Nirvana and the first name appears to be short like John, but I can't make out the letters.

The Listening Station

I think that Charlie turning off the jammer is what those guys saw in the last season finale. The sky turned purple and that was the time they ";;;missed" and this time the jammer didn't turn back on right away and penny woke up and was able to communicate with charlie. Anyone else think of this? Poppin' Fresh 21:31, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Interesting, but how would this describe the "electromagnetic anomaly detected" that the guys in the Listening Station read off their monitor? AmarilloLostFan 21:40, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Jack's Motorola RAZR

Did anyone else see that Jack was using a Motorola RAZR when he was trying to call Kate? When I noticed that I was thinking, "That must've been a production error, RAZR's have only been around since 2005." But as it turned out, it actually did make sense for him to have a phone that was released after the plane crash since this all ended up taking place in the "future". So you could say that this was the first indication that these were not events that took place before the crash, which may be why the camera focused so much on the phone itself in the first place. –Nahald 21:44, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Makes sense to me. --Starpatroller 21:49, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

His phone is a KRZR K1M which has been out since late last year. --Ahigee 22:44, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Aha! These sneaky LOST producers love putting in new/unreleased phone references. Think iPhone-Sat Phone and Jack's phone.--Freebert 23:02, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Major questions arising from the finale's last scene

Is anyone else in a state of shock? I know we've been forewarned that this episode was going to change everything, but the whole flash-foward thing really shocked me. The main questions I can think of right now are: 1) How and why is Jack's father alive? Was Jack's father ever on the Island? 2) Do only certain people get rescued from the Island while others are forced to stay? 3) Are Jack and Kate (and presumably others) being forced to lie about other people surviving the crash and still being on the Island? Is this what is causing Jack so much guilt and pain? 4) If #2 is true, why would only certain people be rescued and others not? 5) Who was in the coffin?

Please share any others questions you can think of! --Starpatroller 21:50, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

1) Why do you think he is alive? From what I recall, he was only mentioned as being alive when Jack tried to get more oxycodin. Doesn't mean that Jack's father is alive, just means that Jack will say anything to get a fix. 2) Hmm, obviously this was some kind of "official" rescue, unlike Michael and Walt, since Oceanic Air gave at least Jack free airline trips as part of their compensation package (BTW, is that standard operating procedure for airlines to offer free airline travel, presumably for life, to survivors of air crashes?). So I think that at least most of the surviving crash victims were rescued. 3) Hmm, Jack could be suffering from survivors guilt... I just took his depression to mean that he hasn't adjusted well to returning to society, that his experience on the island left him so emotionally scarred, that he couldn't relate to people who didn't go through the same experience he had. Hense, part of the reason he reached out to Kate. 4) Again, I think all the remaining survivors were rescued, per Oceanic's response. 5) Given the likely hood that Kate is with Sawyer, I place my money on either Locke or Ben (two people that after tonight's episode, are probably not going to be looked on with...love).

My only question is whether Kate is still on the run. Just because she survived a plane crash doesn't absolve her of murder. --Volcanopele 22:30, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

1) Perhaps Jack is so messed up from his drinking/drug use he forgets his father is dead 2) None of the Others (beside Ben) would have been "rescued" because Ben sent them somewhere else, also I don't believe you could force John Locke off of the island. (When Jack contacts the freighter you see John turn around and walk away, presumabley into the woods) 3) I believe Jack is in the shape that he is because he realizes everthing Ben told him before he made the call is true and their is truley nothing left for him in regular society (the same can be said for many of the survivors) 4) N/A If my #2 is correct this doesn't apply. 5) Ben (my guess). He was tied to the tree when the surviors contacted the ship, so it is fesable that he would be taken back with them, also he would have no friends or family in the "real world" so no one would attend his showing. Jack would also consider him neither friend nor family, which is what he tells the funeral director. Finally, Ben's death could've triggered Jack's attempted suicide as he would have decided that Ben was his best shot of finding the island again.--Spacemonkey420 22:23, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Actually, Jack's dad is referenced as being alive TWICE in this episode (once during the prescription fiasco, and again during his fight with the other doctor, saying "Go upstairs and look at my dad and see if I'm drunker than him" or something to that extent. I still think that not all of the Losties got rescued. I don't know. This finale just left you with so many questions...thanks for the input though! I love hearing what other people think. And don't forget Locke didn't have friends or family, either! --Starpatroller 22:36, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The prescription fiasco doesn't mean Christian isn't dead. Jack walks when the pharmacist suggests calling his father - the game is up whether Christian is alive or dead.Boloboffin 04:56, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Yes, but Jack's supervisor gives him a very worried look when he suggests going upstairs and getting his father. In retrospect, I think this is one of those nice little touches that alters the viewing of the scene after the reveal.

I don't think Locke would ever leave the island.--Spacemonkey420 22:54, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

If Ben is right, Locke might not have had a choice.Boloboffin 04:56, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Good point, spacemonkey. I just don't know. This episode has me reeling with my head spinning. --Starpatroller 22:56, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Sun on Plane in Flash Forward

I'm sure I saw Sun sitting behind Jack in one of the flashes. Am I crazy? --jestaib

I'm going to have rewatch and find out, because I keep hearing this! --Starpatroller 21:50, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

There's an Asian woman sitting behind Jack on the plane, but it definitely doesn't look like Sun. AmarilloLostFan 21:56, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Screenshots? jestaib

comments on the episode

1) Charlie's death could have been set up better. Its not clear to me why he threw his life away. Even with the portal blown, he and Desmond could have got away.

2) It was sad to see Tom go the way he did. He was a good character for the show and a whole lot more interesting than Jin or Bernard.

3) The whole thing with Sayid, Jin and Bernard not getting killed was lame. It was the worst kind of tease and was inconsistant with the situation. It would have been a whole lot more meaningful if someone (anyone) had died in the situation.

4) The scenes with Ben and Alex walking across the island were really good. I wish they had done more of that earlier in the season because the estranged parent/child relationship is really interesting.

5) In his absolute hour of total failure, Ben was a real leader. He kept his daughter safe, sent the remainder of the Others probably to safety and sacrified himself trying to do (in the end) what seems to have been the right thing.

6) Locke once again was a coward. Every time the Island has trusted him to do something, it seems like he fails. He throws a knife into Naomi's back without hesitation but he can't even bring himself to shoot Jack in the arm or leg to stop him. Dharmatel4 21:55, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

I think calling Locke a coward for not hurting Jack is a little harsh. And I for one am glad Sayid and Jin didn't get killed, but I can understand your point about that being an unneccesary tease. --Starpatroller 22:03, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

But Locke being a coward seems to be a reacurring theme in the show, perhaps something he must overcome before he is able to fulfill whatever "role" the island (is Jacob a manifestation of the islands will?) has in store for him.--Spacemonkey420 22:30, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

1) Desmond told Charlie that his drowning would bring rescue to Claire and Aaron. He obviously believes this and carries out his fate. Do you watch the show?

2) Not really.

3) I'm glad none of the Losties died.

4) I agree.

5) Ok.

6) I think he knows that Naomi is a fraud. Of course he didn't kill Jack. Jack isn't the enemy here. But, yes, maybe he could've shot the phone out of his hand. If he did that, he probably would have been jumped by 40 people though. ElekJappa 22:59, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Ummm...just one thing, you do realize that Alex isn't REALLY Ben's daughter right. She is the baby that the Others snached from Rousso 16 years ago.--Spacemonkey420 23:12, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Am I the only one who was absolutely excited by the way they did the Others killing Jin, Sayid and Bernard scene? I mean, we hear gunshots over the radio then nothing. Jump to Tom arguing with whats-his-face about how they shouldn't have followed orders and it wasn't the "right" thing to do. This makes you believe Tom was against the killing of the Losties (thus living up to the off-screen nick "Mr. Friendly"). But then they slap you in the face by having the other Other explaining that it was Ben's order to shoot at the sand and you're all like, "Whiskey tango foxtrot?" Then Tom profoundly states that they should have actually killed them and we pan to see the three Losties still alive. This is just a huge, and awesome, smack in the face because we wouldn't expect that from good ol' Tom. Beautiful. -- macosx 23:41, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Weak, lame and pathetic. This episode was full of more holes than a warehouse full of Swiss cheese. It's like the writers have given up on the show and just threw a bunch of garbage on to slips of paper. I don't know where to begin, so I won't. It would take me all day and I've wasted enough time on this stinker. IMO, this has to be one of the worst season finales in television broadcast history. 'Lost' has jumped the shark. I will probably never watch another episode. If I sound angry, I am. I've been a loyal viewer from day one and to be handed this piece of crap for a season finale just pisses me off. --Bytme 04:56, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

I hate to agree, but I do. This finale was underwhelming to say the least. I found it to be completely unsatisfying. There were definitely some great parts (the fake execution was brilliant, for all the reasons Macosx above stated) but there were so many other parts that left me thinking 'meh'. The "we gotta go back" part was extremely lame, and I'm not just looking for the snake in the mailbox we were promised...I'm looking for the actual mailbox. Part of the interest was wondering if they would get rescued, now that we know that Jack & Kate do where is the excitement in that? 2 characters I'm not really interested in anymore, because the danger of them being killed or stuck on the island is now removed. I understand that things could change drastically with the next season, but I'm not left in obssessive anticipation over the next year like I was with seasons 1 & 2. I'm definitely waiting for the new season of "The Office", and figure lost will come back when it comes back. I'll still watch it, because I do like it, but I'm not so jazzed about it anymore. --Camper 05:30, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Charlie's Death

The question of why Charlie sacrificed himself has been removed from unanswered questions. Is there any satisfactory, generally accepted answer?

He sacrificed himself so Claire and Aaron could get off of the island, as said in "Greatest Hits". --Marik7772003 23:40, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
- That doesn't hold up. He had shut down the jamming field already and done what he had to do. In the end, he didn't sacrifice himself, he committed suicide. Dharmatel4 23:56, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
  - It's not suicide when a man condemned to death chooses his fate. Charlie, it has been made abundantly clear, was going to die. Maybe Des's presence in the LG made survival an option, but he chose it to be on an occasion that gave the best opportunity to see Claire rescued. Dharmabum 00:42, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Please follow the Unanswered Questions rules

1. Do not answer the questions here.

2. Keep the questions open-ended and neutral: do not suggest an answer.

With regards to the kinds of questions included, edits must be of direct relevance. For example, a question arising from "The Man Behind the Curtain" "How can only Ben see Jacob?", is acceptable as it is clearly something which has not yet been answered. However, the question "Is Ben the Monster?", would be deleted as it is a leading question and theory - and so belongs under the article's theory tab. Likewise, a question where part is leading will be deleted, such as "Why is Jacob invisible, is this connected to the Island being invisible?" (i.e. the latter clause is leading). Finally, rhetoricals like "Will anyone return to the Arrow station?", should be deleted as it is not necessary a pressing or direct unanswered question, it is simply a random presumption.

Other examples of bad questions might be: Is Ben connected to the Adam and Eve skeletons? Why did Locke stop Sayid from contacting help? Is it because he believes the Island is sacred? Will the black rocks hold any significance to the mysteries of the Island?

Too many rules make discussions no fun...

Go nuts on the discussion page, just don't put it on the main page. Duggie 23:23, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The Beard...

Was anybody else a little bit distracted by Jack's beard? I kept expecting him to yell "This IS SPARTA!" to the people around him... Jimbo the tubby 22:53, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Wait. I thought all drunk, emotionally distraught, painkiller-addicted men had full beards. --Freebert 23:07, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Sure they do, but they aren't usually so obviously fake, which is what I found distracting, myself. Dharmabum 00:43, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

The news paper of dead person

Well I just confirmed its a male at least, that narrows it down a bit also confirmed the location of where jack was, Los Angeles

look closesly at the note in the scene jack drives up to the funeral home

All I can read from it is this:

Los Angeles: Man found d --- downtown ---

the body of (worthy)? after

rest is illegible

here is the image if you dont believe me

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6113/thescrappaperwz5.jpg

We need a 1080i screencap of that newspaper. That is, the image above is only 624x352. It is possible to get HD screencaps that are much larger than that. I am waiting for those for the paper, the radio tower, the inside of the looking glass, etc.

Satellite phone receiver

What was the name of that guy, Mozkowski? The article states "Spokowski" at the moment, I somehow doubt that.--Samideano 23:45, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

out of character

Some things seemed really odd to me, the character's actions didn't match what you would expect from them.

1. Yes Charlie's willing to put his life at risk to save Claire and the rest, even willing to die if necessary. But with the task accomplished, why wouldn't he avoid his death and try to get rescued along with Claire?

2. Ben's master plan to change people's mind about leaving is "go back and live the rest of your lives here with us constantly terrorizing you, or else you'll hear a sound which may or may not be the deaths of 3 people"? It's a terrible plan, very likely to fail, and just plain dumb... the complete opposite of all of Ben's other plans. I can only assume this was intentional by Ben and he has more cards to play.

3. For the short time Bonnie appeared, almost everything she said was about putting full trust in Ben, how the minute they stop trusting him then all their work was for nothing... she gives the impression she'd do anything for their cause, even die if necessary. Then she gets shot, and Charlie even reminds her that Ben ordered Mikhail to do it... and then she gives up information anyway? If she did want to get back at Ben, then why were all of her actions demonstrating that she has full trust in Ben? I'm wondering if the code Charlie entered has effects other than unblocking the transmissions.

4. Locke will walk across the island and throw a knife into Naomi to stop the phone from being used. Seems like it's something that's pretty damn important to him. But then he won't take any further actions at all? Not wanting to kill Jack is one thing... but he could have shot him non-lethally, he could have attacked barehanded, he could have tried to destroy the phone. Instead he just leaves?

One other thing I'm wondering about... gunshots (as well as dynamite) seem extremely effective at killing people (other than Locke). Many characters in the past have died instantly from gunshots. Greta is shot and dies instantly, Bonnie is shot in the back and dies before long. But other types of injuries are often recovered from easily (Naomi's punctured lung and even Mikhail's spear to the chest).

I think Naomi is not dead, and Locke knew the knife wouldn't kill her. Why else would he throw a knife instead of firing his gun? This is strongly hinted at minutes earlier, as two gunshots result in two deaths, but a spear to the chest doesn't.

Now that I think about it... Jacob doesn't like technology. Guns are technology, maybe Jacob prevents those types of wounds from being healed (again Locke being an exception)...

On (2), there is another way to look at what Ben was doing. By keeping them alive, he had chips remaining to play in case the losties thought about killing him in retaliation. His plan wasn't very good, but he was playing a losing hand the best he could. He sent the Others away to presumably a safe hiding place. And he may have saved Alex from whatever bad is going to happen on the Island. He reunited her with both Karl and her real mother. And he put his own life on the line for the plan. Dharmatel4 00:12, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Fight Club references

Jack walking in front of the car was shot similarly to Marla walking in front of the bus.
Jack mentioning every time a plane hit a pocket of turbulance he hopes for its crash is mirrors what Ed Norton's character said in Fight Club.
The plot of Jack hitting rock bottom is a main theme of Fight Club.

Star Wars reference?

Someone added that Charlie talking to Penny was a reference to the scene in Star Wars when Solo attempts to convince a superiour officer that everything is okay in the prison block where Leia is being rescued. Other than people talking over a communications device, what's the reference? It's been awhile since I've seen Star Wars, was the dialogue lifted from it? Dharmabum 01:02, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

If you watch the scenes you'll notice a lot of similarities between them, including the way they are framed, the mannerisms of the speaker (they way they're stuttering, for instance) and so on. Also, the producers mention several times that they're big fans of Star Wars, so it doesn't feel like a stretch that it was shot as an homage, even though plot-wise there isn't a direct connection between the two.
- Fair enough; I know that Star Wars has been referenced many times in the series, but nothing about this scene seemed very reminiscent, and framing and mannerisms are a pretty thin comparison. The scene in Lost was also completely bereft of humour, while it was probably the funniest scene in the film. Not saying this doesn't belong as a theory, but as a definite cultural reference it seems pretty shaky. Dharmabum 01:23, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
To me the whole episode felt like Return of the Jedi.Veridicum 01:38, 24 May 2007 (PDT)
- More Lucas references: Richard Alpert going to "the temple" was obvious a reference to the Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, and Mr. Friendly and the rest of the dead Others were obviously references to Storm Troopers, with their lack of shooting skills. :)

Grand Avenue Project?

Isn't this presumptive beyond what we have been given? The street name Grand Avenue is the last thing written in that paragraph of text. Since Grand Avenue is a street in Los Angeles (predominant one at that) the only thing we should take from the newspaper article is that the body was discovered somewhere on Grand Avenue.Veridicum 01:56, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

The Temple

Ben sent all the others to "the temple" - what is it? where is it? etc...--Raeinar 02:42, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

"2-hour episode" is misleading

When, in fact, the duration of the parts are 40-45 min for each part of the finale, bringing it around 83 min of total running time. Unless the subordination to the ads doctrine means that ads are now considered show time. -- Phnk 03:37, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

You should probably take this up with ABC. There is little we can do about it here. On a related note, though, I opened a new box of cereal this morning, and it only appeared to be 3/4 full.--paulski 05:03, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

So, um....Jack is Hasidic Jewish House!

Thoughts?