Talk: This Place Is Death

Can we edit the name?

Hey guys, I was just wondering if we can change the "is" in the title to "Is?" ABC.com lists it with a capital I and it's consistent with the "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead" title. Also, we all know the press releases aren't completely reliable. They're the only place to list "There's No Place Like Home" with a part 3 in the title. Thoughts? Alexisfan07 12 February 2009

Can we agree that this was Sun/Jin Centric?

• Disagree. No "centricity". --Xbenlinusx 04:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Agree. The episode started with Sun's eye.

This episode was totally Sun/Jin centric.

I don't know how anyone could possibly think that this episode didn't have a centric. If anything, Because You Left didn't have a centric. --Bish-Fiscuit 04:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Neither episode had any centricity. Without flashbacks/forwards focusing on specific characters, the very definition of centricity doesn't apply.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  04:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Damon and Carlton said you would be able to tell clearly who it was centric of. Its Jin, not Sun. All the Sun scenes really deal with Jin btw. Four4elements 04:08, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm thinking Jin centricity. Sun's few scenes were mostly her yelling at Ben and sitting in a car with Jack. Jin was the focus of the episode. ShadowUltra 04:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

It's definitely Jin and Sun, with no flashback to distinguish between the two, it's both of them. And with the way the camera cut in between the two constantly. Flashbacks have become less essential, so we can still have character centrics without them and can still have a denotation without them. Alexisfan07 12 February 2009

• Agree. Damon and Carlton did say that. I take back my initial claim that it was Ben-centric (as the episode teaser test suggested). Upon further thought, this was definitely Sun/Jin, or if not, then just Jin. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

Just follow the whoosh...it has always been the sign of whose centric the episode is. It went from Sun, to Jin, and back. Plotwise, the episode was about Jin time traveling and reuniting with the group, and off island it was about Sun learning that Jin is not dead, and agreeing to go back to the Island. Also Jin's wedding ring was an important symbol in the episode (MaxMoney37 04:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC))

Max, did you follow the whoosh in "Because You Left?" Was there a character featured more before and after the whoosh? Alexisfan07 12 February 2009

I did follow the whoosh in "Because You Left" and the fact that it was not focused on one or two characters meant to me that it was non centric, the key here is that it did move back and forth specifically between Sun and Jin. (MaxMoney37 04:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC))

Agree with Jin and Sun, but just Jin would be better than "N/A." Just because there's no flashbacks or flashforwards doesn't mean there can't be a centric character. I thought that was the reason for switching to the designation "centric" instead of "flashback/forward".-- COMPOSSIBLE  Talk  Contribs  04:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Agree. A the very least it should be Jin centric. The idea that centricity can only be cited if there is a flashback or flashforward is ridiculous. By the definition of centric, Jin, and maybe even Sun as well, are the centric characters. Centric, meaning the episode largely centers on them. A flashback/flashforward isn't required to determine centricity.--HaloOfTheSun 04:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's about the character development and it's good that we changed it to character centricity. It fits this season much better. I still say it's both of them. Alexisfan07 12 February 2009

• Jin centric, because it felt like it was all about Jin, and was there for Danielles story, so I think its Jin centric. The episode moved from off/on island between Jin and Sun the same way it did with And Found, so I can see how people think its a Sun/Jin episode, I think we should label it Jin, because Suns story seemed connected and all about Jin. Buffyannesummers23 05:03, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I think it's a Sun episode too because they flashed between them back to back and she led the off-island story. I mean, Kate and Sayid were barely in it and it was clearly not Jack or Ben off-island centric. Alexisfan07

• Agree that is is indeed Jin and Sun-centric. We have to remember that since there are no traditional flashback/forward episodes for now -- and when there are, only in the first five minutes -- we have to use other means of determining that quality. While I was watching, I definietly assumed this would be considered a Jin & Sun ep.--Jeff 05:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Although the previous 3 episodes had an actual flashback focused on Hurley, Kate and Desmond, this one didn't, but there were cuts between Sun and Jin on/off Island, and the focus had alot to do with them. Unlike the season premier, where the focus was everyone, and the Oceanic 6 plus Desmond, all were doing there own stories, so it was various/multi. This one felt like a Sun/Jin focus on/off Island. Buffyannesummers23 05:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Agree that it is Sun/Jin-centric, at least during the first half. The episode began with the focus on Sun, then switched over to Jin when the story jumped back to the island. It was a little harder to tell closer to the end of the episode, because there seemed to be a good deal of focus on Charlotte, too. Dman176 06:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Other I think it would be more precise to seperate the concepts of flashbacks and centricity. All the previous episodes had flashbacks or flashforwards, and the infobox should reflect that. This episode had only centricity, so it should be the first infobox to use the 'centricity', but it should also specify that flashbacks/forwards=none. The previous episodes should use flashes, since they actually had them, and it's easier to just list the flash than debate centricity when we don't have to. For this episode I would say it's a Jin & Sun centric episode. --Jackdavinci 07:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Agree Definately felt like a Sun/Jin episode. Tranquility 10:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• If we were to get extremely technical, the opening scene with Sun's phone call is technically a flashback, since the linear off-island story ended in "The Little Prince" with her getting out of the car. --Pyramidhead 12:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  • That's exactly the way I saw it.--Baker1000 12:26, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Agree. I think the only question is whether it is "Jin centric" or "Jin & Sun centric." --michael_is_NOT_in_the_coffin 14:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• It was Jin centric all the way.
• Jin AND Sun centric. It may devote more time to Jin, but the fact that Sun decides to switch allegiances between Widmore and Ben at the end of the episode seems crucial to me.--Forloyo 18:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• It seems to be unanimous. At least for the time being, can a SysOp/Admin please update the character centricity on the Season 5 nav box? --michael_is_NOT_in_the_coffin 19:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Agree. It is obviously Jin and Sun centric. The intire episode dealed with Jin's suposed death, and Sun's search for him. --Caio_wgm
• Agree The on-island plot focused on Jin, and the off island plot dealt with Sun. It was Sun/Jin-centric, if not, Jin. Can an admin please change it?

• Agree Sun and Jin-centric. I'm not really understanding what's going on here. Now the Season Nav says Various and the episode picture has been changed to a non-Sun/Jin picture (when we generally use the centric character for the pic), but it still says Jin and Sun in the episode info box, and the Sun and Jin navs are still at the bottom.--Baker1000 21:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, uh, "Various" is only marginally better than "N/A".--HaloOfTheSun 21:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Agree Jin was definitely the main character of this episode, more than Desmond was of Jughead and Kate was of The Little Prince. Sun/Jin would be better, but Jin only would be ideal.

Yeah, let's change the picture back and change the "various" to Jin and Sun. Alexisfan07 12 February 2009

• Agree 100%. I came in this discussion just to propose as such. --   Dee4leeds  talk  contribs  all  22:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Agree Please change it to Jin and Sun, its clearly their episode. The episode technically even starts out with a sun flashback, since it starts moments before the last episode ended (I know thats a stretch), after this scene with Sun, it goes right to a close up of Jin. Plus the whole story with the ring, carried their story throughout the whole episode.Mattfarley1008 22:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Agree Both plotlines almost always follow Jin and Sun. The island plotline follows Jin during the time he is with the French team and only switches to the rest of the Losties when he meets up with them. The LA plotline follows Sun and leaves the other O6 behind when she goes with Ben. Smarmon 12:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree This episode is OBVIOUSLY Sun/Jin-centric. Can someone change it already? Bennn 13 February 2009

Futurama Similarites?

Did anyone notice that the flashes becoming more frequent was similar to what happened in "Time Keeps On Slippin'", an episode of Futurama? Nick2010 04:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Great catch. See also: Katey Sagal who plays Helen did the voice of Leela. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 04:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Wasn't that what the show Quantum Leap was all about? IMO, I don't think there's enough to credit Futurama with the idea.--Lucky Day 01:12, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Damon Lindelof is apparently a fan of The Simpsons, (and maybe Futurama) but I was just noting an interesting similarity, there isn't really any evidence of a connection. Nick2010 01:44, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

2007 or 2008?

It's time to settle this. People keep switching the present-day Oceanic Six events on all season 5 pages between 2007 and 2008. Which is it? As the Jeremy Bentham obituary is seemingly canon (or at least deuterocanon), I say we go with 2007. ShadowUltra 04:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

It's impossible to tell whether it's late '07 or early '08. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  05:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Then something needs to be done other than using an inconsistent dating format. ShadowUltra 05:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  05:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The best hint we have is Desmond's stroll through a street in England looking for Theresa Spencer. It was plainly autumn. Unless we're in late 2008, this had to be late 2007. Robert K S (talk) 05:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I've been under the assumption that it was mid-to late '07 since the first flash to this time period in season 3. Let's just play it by ear ... I know that doesn't make the people who edit the calendar articles too happy, but better to be safe than sorry, right? Also, in the articles, instead of listing it as 2007 or 2008, we could make the header read "Approx. three years later" instead :) --Jeff 05:37, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I know it's not canon, but if 815 crashed on 22 Sept 04, the date of Lost's premiere, what if we assume until we hear differently that the first flashforward, when Jack tells Kate at the airport that "We have to go back!", was 23 May 2007, the same day that Through The Looking Glass aired? That gives us 3 years and change after they left the Island. We may never get a more precise date from the show itself; it would just be our best approximation. --Emissary23 06:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I've been going by the "Three Years Later" and "Three Years Ago" blurbs at the beginning of certain episodes, taking into account that the Oceanic 6 were rescued during the first week of January 2005. Plus, even Penny and Kate have specifically mentioned that they've all been off the island for 3 years. I agree that until the exact year or date is specified by Damon and Carlton (possibly via a Q&A in one of their podcasts), it might be best to edit the headers to read "Off-Island: Three Years Later" or something similar. Dman176 06:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree Since we cannot yet pinpoint the year, "three years after rescue' or somesuch is advised. --Jackdavinci 07:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

If we know they were rescued in January 2005, and previous episodes have said "three years later" after showing a rescue scene, wouldn't it be January 2008? --LOSTinDC 13:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Something that happened in January '05 compared to something that happend in say Oct. '07 or March '08 would still be ABOUT 3 years, and most people would round up or down. I asked this somewhere else on the site but I can't recall where: does anyone remember if the Bentham obit had the newspaper's actual date on it? Since these events are taking place just days afterward.--Jeff 15:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Production notes section request

No one has yet (as of this writing) but: Can we refrain from putting any notations about this being Rebecca Mader's last episode or anything like that yet until after next week's episode airs so we are sure? I'm thinking since Ian Somerhalder, Michelle Rodriguez, Cynthia Watros and Adewale Akkinoye-Agbage were each credited a few more episodes after their characters died. Maggie Grace was too .. but as a "guest" for playing her corpse, hehe. But anyway, let's wait until her name is officially removed from the credits.--Jeff 05:37, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Lets wait until her name is removed I agree, we dont know if her dead body or if she will appear as a vison/ghost like Ana did after death, yet. I shall not list it as last episode yet, until we see in the new 2 or 3 episodes. Buffyannesummers23 05:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Transcript

The transcript for this episode finishes at the end of act 1. For anyone who has seen the episode, can you please flesh it out a bit more?

Korean and French help?

For our friends that have foreign language talents (Klingon excepted), and who have the episode recorded, please fill in the [Speaking Korean] and [Speaking French] in This Place is Death transcript. Kamsa hamnida et merci ! Robert K S (talk) 05:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Did Charlotte actually speak any Klingon? One reviewer thought she did when she was all addled but I thought she was speaking Korean before she announced This Place Is Death. (I think in Klingon the proper phrase transliterated would be "This is a Good Place to Die" and some subtle context could be missed if not careful).

Translated the Klingon for "This is a Good Place to Die", if I got it correctly it should be Heghlu'meH QaQ lanvam

Also, is anyone able to translate some of the hieroglyphs on the Temple?

--Lucky Day 17:54, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I translated french parts of the Act I... I am one of the admin of the french part of Lostpedia... I can help you ! Desperate july 20:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Because You Left

In Because You Left, Jack asked Ben "When was the last time you saw him? I mean Locke." Ben replies "On the island.". So I don't get it when Jack says towards the end of this episode, "You said John never came to see you." Ben replies, "That's true, Jack. I went to see him." Is that just Ben up to his old tricks? --Makiwolf 08:19, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Ben can go to see a dead person, but a dead person cannot go to see someone.

Also, Locke, at the time, was moonlighting as Jeremy Bentham. SO semantically, Jack was asking the wrong question. --Frenk Melk 16:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps Locke never gave Ben the ring. And perhaps they never met again. Perhaps Ben took the ring from Locke's body, as he's a clever guy and thought it might be useful. And all of this might be wrong, we don't know. But we cannot assume that Locke and Ben met again just because of the ring, right?--Salvora 00:27, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

When Ben asked Jack if Locke had said what happened to the rest of them when the Island moved, and Jack said no, he hadn't, Ben's response sounded a bit suspicious. He said, "then I guess we'll never know." But my guess was that he asked Jack in the first place because he wanted to see if he could hide something from Jack, and if Jack didn't know he'd continue to hide it. Made me think that Ben may have had a hand in something evil related to this.

Too Obtuse?

I added this episode reference: "Christian tries to tell Locke the name of his son but Locke is teleported away before he can finish. (5x1)" because a very similar thing happened to Desmond when Daniel tried to tell him his mother's name. Kajillion 09:21, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Good one --CharlieReborn 10:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Ben...

Is anyone else starting to finally really feel a little bit sorry for Ben? (BTW, I think Michael Emerson did an amazing job in the van scene) You really get the sense that, despite whatever else he's been up to, he is at least now trying to help them, and that he knows he's been guilty of a whole hoard of things, but he's isolated himself in his quest for control over everything to the point of utter loneliness. He seems to be a real tragic Gollum sort of character. Dude, Ben, you should have been honest and upfront with them (oh, and friendly) from the start and none of this would have happened...--NotAnOther 11:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Ever since we learned the Wheel was knocked off axis I wondered if this was something Ben did on purpose and if he is responsible for putting everyone in danger in the first place... perhaps he knew this when he stole the job of turning the Wheel in the first place. I think back to promising Jack one thing then allowing Locke to blow up the submarine. He would have created the time skips to force the O6 to return to make things right. On the other hand, I wonder if he stole the Wheel man job so he could leave the island and avoid dying like Charlotte.--Tymes 18:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

It may have just been ego. Ben thought he was so important to be banished (when in fact stay or leave it meant no difference), Locke thought he wasn't important enough to make a difference in moving the wheel. Once Locke heard Jacob I would have thought it would have been in Ben's every interest to get Locke off the Island. Its also possible Ben would have outlived Charlotte if she was amongst the first group of Darma's to get to the Island. Its also does not appear that absolute time on the Island matters as Sawyer and Juliette get nose bleeds at the same time despite Juliette being there longer.--Zaggs 21:22, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I have had sympathy for Ben for a long time. I think he's done a lot of bad things, but I suspect his goals may be perfectly honest and decent. I'm confident a better side of him will be revealed. ( I also think that the worst thing he's done, was to kill Widmore's soldier, but that he did when he lost control over his emotions. And I suspect he will never kill Penny - or any other Widmore's child, if there are others). --Salvora 00:30, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Locke and the wheel

If Locke stopped the island skipping in time why do the rest still have to get back to the island —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Simo9852 (talk • contribs) 2009-02-12T07:41:51.

First, do we know that Locke stopped the island skipping in time? I guess, if he did, we don't know when they are. If they have, hopefully this will take us to the Dharma period that started off the season. --Makiwolf 17:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• • Doesn't Christian Shepherd tell him directly it will? Once he turns it, the wheel will move normally again.--Lucky Day 01:08, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The Wheel of Time

Thanks to this episode we now know there is a direct connection between the donkey wheel and how time moves on the Island.

Time moved slower on the Island than outside of it when the wheel was frozen and time was skipping when the wheel was skipping itself.--Lucky Day 18:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Time DIDN'T move slower or faster. It moved at the same pace. Recall The Constant and the freighter calendar, and also the aprox. time when the Oceanic6 appeared at the outer world. I'm with the theory that entering the island at a wrong bearing will "instant-shot" you to a determined time (think Daniel's payload and Ray's body). The frozen wheel was FROZEN, time was struck also and nothing anormal happening with it. --Comfortably.Floyd 22:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• • This question has been going round and round. Time moving slow is a popular theory that explains such things as Young Walt and Old Walt? I thought the writers confirmed slow time theory in an interview. Has something different been confirmed that I don't know about?--Lucky Day 01:09, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Again, some of the unanswered questions are merely that

For example "Why does Daniel, at some point in his future, tell Charlotte to never return to the Island?" is by far too obvious. Dan knows Charlotte dies in the current timeline, so later he travels back in time to warn Charlotte (say, in the same time he visits the orchid) to never come back to the island so she doesn't die. Also I believe the answer to the question "Why is the donkey wheel "broken" when Locke finds it?" is kinda given by the conversation Christian and John have down in the cave. Locke should've turned the wheel and not Ben, so now the wheel is malfunctioning. --Timich 13:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

A set of weekly edits and why they were removed:

• Why does Daniel, at some point in his future, tell Charlotte to never return to the Island?
  • see above--Lucky Day 01:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
• Why is the wheel "broken" when Locke finds it?
  • its obviously connected with the time skipping - a living metaphor. since Locke is being told he had to do it and not Ben and he needs to bring up those who left they are connected as well.

How does Robert know about the Monster?

• • he went into the Cerberus Vent and learned of the Monster, or was changed by the Island
• How does Robert know about the Monster?
  • see above

--Lucky Day 17:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the following unanswered question should be removed: "What happened on the Island and to Locke after he turned the wheel?" This is kind of like asking: "What will happen next week?" --LOSTinDC 18:04, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

"Why does Daniel, at some point in his future, tell Charlotte to never return to the Island?"--this question is bad for a number of reasons, but the one not yet pointed out here is that it doesn't even have proper antecedent basis in the facts as presented in the show. That it was Daniel who was the scary man who warned Charlotte was Charlotte's theory. We haven't seen the scary man and we don't know for sure it was Daniel. Robert K S (talk) 18:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Something that's been bugging me for the last few weeks: Write your questions in present tense! I keep noticing questions written in past tense and it's getting frustrating to keep fixing it over and over again. Please see LP:EMOS.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  21:29, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• Why was the wheel not frozen when Locke entered the chamber?
  • because Ben released it and now its off its axis skipping. This answer couldn't be plainer and implies the Wheel acts outside normal timestreams.
  • I'm pretty sure the chamber and wheel were still very, very cold, even though the wheel wasn't frozen to the wall. DavisJ3608 04:50, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

One of the green flashes, showing icicles on the walls of the chamber

• I'm tempted to remove the question on Christian Shepherd and why he can't help Locke. The obvious answer is he's dead (hence the lamp to be seen) but I don't think we fully know the answer yet as he could even be the Smoke Monster. Anyone else agree or disagree?

--Lucky Day 01:04, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Answers to Continuity Errors

I've removed the following answers to these questions:

• Danielle shoots Robert, turns and spots Jin. Attempting to shoot Jin, she draws back the bolt of the rifle to extract the spent casing and load a fresh round. She then fired several rounds in quick succession. Much too quick to reload the bolt action weapon.
  • It's possible to fire a centerfire bolt-action rifle at a similar ROF as a semi-automatic rifle; one only needs to extract and chamber a new round as the firearm is recoiling from the previous shot. There's enough time for someone to fire two shots in the time allocated when Danielle fires twice at Jin as he is running away, and subsequently the third too.
• Jin says he knows how to get to the Radio Tower, but in "Through the Looking Glass", he was one of the three people to stay in camp to ambush the Others. Furthermore, he joined the other survivors at the 815's front section and then went back to the beach camp. Jin never went to the Radio Tower.
  • However, that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't know how to get to the Radio Tower. Jack's plan was for the three shooters to join the others after their job was complete.
    • Jin never directly says that he knows how to get to the radio tower. He confirms that he can get back to camp from the tower which doesn't require him to know where the tower is. It would be much easier to find the well known location of the camp from an unknown location as opposed to the reverse.

They might be legitimate answers but I hesitate to remove them as errors just yet. I'll leave that to someone else smarter than I am.--Lucky Day 01:21, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Episode references, Montand's arm

How is Montand losing an arm a reference to Exodus, Part 1?--Tfox846 14:08, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• On the trek to the Black Rock, as they were entering the Dark Territory, Rousseau says, "This is where Montand lost his arm." It was such an arbitrary and random comment that it had bugged many fans since, then so I'm happy they answered it Hansvon 14:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC).
  • Okay, thanks. I didn't remember that and there's no mention of it on the Exodus, Part 1 page. Should there be, to clarify how this references that episode?--Tfox846 15:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Does Vincent find this arm and bring it back to the camp? What episode was that ? kb1pkj

Close, but no ... Vincent found Roger Linus' arm. It still had the van's keys in its hand. --Jeff 15:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah , yes... Good point. Now I remember the van rolling down the hill and the Credence 8-track --Kb1pkj 15:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Three Dog Night, not CCR. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 21:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Could the whole severing-of-the-arm thing possibly be a reference somehow to Beowulf (i.e. when Beowulf rips Grendel's arm off during the first conflict)? Dreams in irish 19:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Mysterious Box

So I just rewatched Charlotte's death on the abc player, and I saw something strange. Call me crazy (others have) but did any one else see about 10 seconds of a box on the side of the creek right after Charlotte died? There's a perfect wooden rectangle propped up on the bank, upright of Daniel. Starts at 34:35, is visible until 34:44. I was thinking Casket, but that might be just because we saw Christian S. right after. --Omglocke 16:20, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Just looks like a plank of wood to me.--Baker1000 17:42, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Removed blooper

Removed this blooper:

• Danielle gives the date of arriving on the island as November 15th 1988. In "Pilot, Part 2", Sayid says the message Danielle left had been playing for 16 years and 5 months as of the day following the crash of flight 815 (September 23rd 2004). Furthermore in "Through the Looking Glass" we also find out that Danielle had left the message at the radio tower 3 days before Alex was born which would have been 2 months after Danielle first arrived on the island. Therefore the message had been playing for approximately 15 years and 7 months.

Sayid did the math in his head and since that time everyone had just take him at his word. If anything, it would have been a blooper had he been spot on. Hansvon 14:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought she said she left port on that date. Robert K S (talk) 15:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• I typed that up. I'm putting it back because i still think it's an important piece of information. From the beginning of the show we have been told she had been on the island for 16 years and 5 months. Even her very own first words were "16 years, has it really been that long". By his own account, Sayid admitted he was skilled at mathematical equations. Given this episode was not written by the original writers of the pilot it is clearly a blooper that can be masked as a mistake by Sayid. If someone wants to incorporate it into trivia or explain that Sayid's math might have been off then go for it --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 17:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• I thought, too, that Danielle told Jin they left on November 15. Also, we know Danielle is 7 months pregnant, but did she deliver Alex at 9 months? --Makiwolf 18:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Sayid based his calculation on the length of the iteration of the distress call in Pilot Part 2. Perhaps he didn't take into account that the length of time it took to recite the increasing iteration number would make the iteration interval longer as time went on. It takes a lot longer to say 1,000,000 than it does to say 1. That means the original message would have been shorter than 30 seconds.--Rsf0000001 18:27, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Also take into account the 30 seconds was an estimate, not a stop-watch to the microsecond perfect timing. And over thousands of multiples any error in accuracy even very slight will translate to days and weeks over the long term. --Kb1pkj 20:00, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this a blooper?

Jin says he knows how to find his camp from the radio tower. However, Jin was one of the five survivors who never went to the radio tower with Jack in "Through the Looking Glass, Part 1." Instead he stayed behind at the beach to shoot the dynamite traps.

• Jin, Sayid, and Bernard were to follow the group to the tower after they ambushed the Others. Jin doesn't know where he is on the island to know which way to go to get back to where he thinks the camp would be. He would probably know how to return to the camp from the radio tower. At the very least, he would have his bearings. --Makiwolf 18:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
  • They never went to the tower. Altogether, they joined in the plane front section. --Comfortably.Floyd 23:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Maybe you could say Jin could find his way back from the tower, but considering he wouldn't really know how to get there in the first place since he's never been there sort of throws that out the window. Except now all of a sudden he knows where it is.--HaloOfTheSun 03:56, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The Temple

Can we totally state that the ruins that Jin and the science expedition found were The Temple? Because The Temple, as we know it, was the place were the Others headed for shelter in Season 3, and it would be strange that this "safe place" was the same as the one that the Monster protects so viciously. I just can't imagine the Others living with the Monster, as they don't control it. These could be other ruins, as there are many of them scattered through the Island. --   Calick    talk    contributions    email   15:25, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it was the safe place precisely because the Monster protected it? Maybe they know the tricks to avoid being torn apart? Robert K S (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the fact that they lived within the temple makes them Others. The Science expedition members seemed normal in most ways, however they turned into psychopathic killers. Danielle's lover tells her that he doesn't want anything to harm her or the baby , yet in the next moment tries to shoot her. --Kb1pkj 15:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Danielle's lover says: "It's not a monster, it's a security system guarding that temple." Now, there could be multiple temples, but it seems more likely that the safest place on the island is the place that the smoke monster protects, not that there are two temples - one for the monster; and another one that Ben sends his people to. --LOSTinDC 16:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. There is no confirmination that the area where the monster came from is actually the temple that Ben represented... also why does it have a Dharma logo? --     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email   22:31, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Latest audio podcast confirms that this is not the actual temple.--HaloOfTheSun 03:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Centrictity trivia

"This is the first episode featuring centricity without flashbacks or flashforwards." The Constant technically didn't have any flashbacks or flashforwards, only time travel, yet is a Desmond centric episode. Does that count as well? --Golden Monkey 16:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Everything in this episode was either a flashforward or a flashback. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

I agree, this should be removed--Lucky Day 17:50, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Is Jin the first Other?

According to Danielle, the others were the carriers of the sickness. In this episode, Danielle acusses Jin of being the carrier. Could it be in Danielle's mind, Jin was the first Other?--Dawgmatic 18:02, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Doubtful, because she also says she never saw The Others, and she had face to face interaction with Jin.--Jdavyd 18:56, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

No dude, remember that when something didn't happen, returns to the 'past person mind' in their present, just like happened with Desmond when Faraday talked to him about his mother. So, in the 'real present' Rousseau said that he never saw The Others, but in the new remember, she remembers Jin in 1988... the only problem is that in the real present, she is actually dead.

Says who? As far as we know planted memories only apply to Desmond. Daniel specifically calls Desmond unique and says the rules don't apply to him.--Dawgmatic 20:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. That does not explain why Charlotte suddenly remembers Daniel being the weird person that told her not to come back to the island. --You Get A Star 23:28, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Cabin Fever Reference

In Cabin Fever, we never hear exactly how Christian tells Locke to "save the island". All we get is the following dialogue between Locke and Ben (emphasis added):

BEN: Did he tell you what we're supposed to do?

LOCKE: He did.

BEN: Well?

LOCKE: He wants us to move the island.

Seems that if it was really important that Locke move the Island rather than Ben, that Christian (or Jacob or whoever he is) would have been a bit more clear about it.--Eyeful Tower 19:22, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

If the avatar known as Christian told Locke "you must move the island" then he was only talking to Locke as only Locke and Claire were in the cabin. Locke wrongly assumed that Ben had to be involved and that it was the action, not the process, that was important. Locke probably also wrongly assumed that only after he left Ben was still in charge of the Island when obviously once Locke heard Jacob, Locke was in charge of the Island.--Zaggs 19:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

How much time has passed?

When Jin recovers from the first flash of this episode, he is alone. Well, he has Montand's arm to keep him company. I don't have the skill to determine how long the arm has been there, but it looks like it has been there awhile, with the bone exposed and the fabric rotting. There are two scenarios, neither of which is of theory quality:

• Several days have passed. Jin walks through the jungle. When he returns to the beach camp, the French have had time to build at least one shelter (for Danielle?). The raft is nowhere to be seen. Someone has killed Brennan and Lacombe (LaCombe?) and their bodies, both with two arms, are lying next to each other high on the beach. Flies are buzzing around the bodies. He hears an argument and watches the still-pregnant Danielle shoot Robert. Throughout, Montand is not seen and there is no sign of a grave for Nadine.
• Several months have passed. Jin walks through the jungle. When he arrives at the second beach camp, the French have had time to build at least one shelter (for Danielle?). The raft is nowhere to be seen. Someone has killed Brennan and Lacombe (LaCombe?) and their bodies, both with two arms, are lying next to each other high on the beach. Flies are buzzing around the bodies. He hears an argument and watches the pregnant-again Danielle shoot Robert. Throughout, Montand is not seen and there is no sign of a grave for Nadine.

--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I would say a couple months. Not sure on her story but didn't she say they continued to the Radio Tower and the Black Rock, and on the way back encountered the Others and that's what got her team sick, and then after she killed her team she went back to the Radio Tower and changed the message, then gave birth 3 days later?. Hugo815 21:02, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The Transmission

Did anyone notice that the transmission of the numbers (in the beginning of the episode) sounded like Hurley's voice? --NotTHATben 21:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought that too, actually. But I don't think we should add it to the article without any sort of confirmation.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  21:17, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

The Sickness

Robert, Danielle's lover says "Please, don't do this" after Danielle has begun to lower her weapon. I believe he is verbalizing the inner struggle with whatever control the sickness has over his mind. He is asking the sickness not to proceed with what turns out to be his final act in life, trying to murder his lover and their child. --Kb1pkj 22:21, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Monster Speaks As Montand?

Should it be noted that after Montand's arm is severed and he is pulled into the cerberus vent, it's not likely he was actually speaking when his voice is heard asking for help. After having his arm sliced off, it's unlikely he would be able to say "Hey guys, help! It's gone". Can it be assumed that the voice is the monster using Montand's voice, as it has done previously? --Tman930 23:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• • I was wondering this too and I think its a good question for Unanswered. I'll put it there.--Lucky Day 01:22, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Charlotte Speaking as a Child

When Charlotte tells Jin not to "bring her back to the island", I originally assumed she was referring to Sun. But after Charlotte tells Daniel that she thinks she remembers Daniel, in the past, instructing her not to come back to the island (or she would die), could it be that Charlotte was not actually speaking directly to Jin, but instead reciting verbatim what she remembered Daniel saying to her mother (or someone else) in the past, regarding herself? In other words, Charlotte's mind was in the state of herself as a child when she said that, and was not referring to Sun, but to herself. Anybody else think this? Bird1234 00:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• This didn't initially occur to me, but it sounds plausible. --Crash815 03:57, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Could we please throw Charlotte a bone and give her the main image for this article? The poor girl died

• Yeah, so did Charlie, Jin, Anna-Lucia, etc. and we all saw them again as well. It doesn't mean she isn't coming back. They are traveling through time as well, so I am almost positive we will see her again.--Srsnyder5885 04:38, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Rapid Flashes

Should the random flashes of light be mentioned in the summary? I realize that they're not long enough for a single section each, but we should mention when the sky lights up. --Crash815 04:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC)