Talk: The Other Woman

Typo - shouldn't it say "sixth episode"? Fat Burger 22:00, 8 February 2008 (PST)

They copy+pasted the info from ep 5 and just changes the ep's name - date and number are the same:)--Avudim 04:21, 9 February 2008 (PST)

Centric

The Other Woman is a Juliet-centric episode.--Mikexchanger 09:14, 13 February 2008 (GMT)

This information isn't posted on the article/talk pages until after the episode airs as it is considered a spoiler. This information (as well as the centric characters up until episode 8) is already on the season 4 spoilers page. Jimbo the tubby 09:14, 13 February 2008 (PST)

Press Release

From ABC Medianet:

JULIET IS PAID AN UNWELCOME VISIT BY SOMEONE FROM HER PAST AND ORDERED TO TRACK DOWN AND STOP CHARLOTTE AND FARADAY FROM COMPLETING THEIR MISSION, ON ABC'S "LOST"

"The Other Woman" - Juliet receives an unwelcome visit from someone from her past and is given orders to track down Charlotte and Faraday in order to stop them from completing their mission -- by any means necessary. Meanwhile, Ben offers Locke an enticing deal, on "Lost," THURSDAY, MARCH 6 (9:00-10:02 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.

"Lost" stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Elizabeth Mitchell as Juliet, Terry O'Quinn as Locke and Harold Perrineau as Michael.

Guest starring are Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Alan Dale as Charles Widmore, Andrea Roth as Harper, M.C. Gainey as Mr. Friendly/Tom and Brett Cullen as Goodwin.

"The Other Woman" was written by Drew Goddard & Christina M. Kim and directed by Eric Laneuville.

--Avudim 13:10, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Normally I try not to read the cast list (I always fail), but I'm thrilled with this one. M.C. Gainey's back! --Chester Kilburn Talk | Contributions 09:54, 17 February 2008 (PST)

header Information

Someone with formatting skillz needs to change the episode link template to show that Juliet is the flashback character, and also to change the information on the Season Four article. I have no idea how to do either of thse things and i really don't have the spare time. Billytrousers 19:14, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Sam?

When I first watched, I thought the man being beaten by Widmore was Sam Thomas of Find 815. I thought the hair looked like his. I'll double check on Tivo later.--Theslate 19:17, 6 March 2008 (PST)

File:Widmore beating.jpg

Guess not.--Theslate 04:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Could it be the Desmond of the past? (totally dressed the part) -- what is "our men on the outside" are characters who have achieved their "constant". (what if Juliet is Ben's Constant! *gasp*) --PMcgrath 12:37, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Froglars 23:23, 6 March 2008 (PST)

badly done

That was really badly written. Michael Emerson gives all those interviews last fall talking about respecting his character and not making it "arch"....and then we get mostache twirling over the dead body of goodwin. After after all the things they set up in Juliet's backstory last season, they have her showing up for dinner with ben as if nothing has happened. And they abandon everything they might have done in terms of Goodwin's interest in Ana Lucia in favor of a new disposable ex-wife character. Dharmatel4 19:49, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Some of Ben's lines were hilarious though. Ben does some pretty insane things but given his diabolical nature and his rather traumatic childhood, I think it's understandable that he's a little off balance. Generally speaking, I thought this episode provided some nice comic relief. Except for the poison gas. And Goodwin's corpse. --Beardedjack 19:56, 6 March 2008 (PST)

You're a moron. This episode was amazing. I'm sorry if you can't see that. dposse 05:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Is the name calling really necessary? This one definitely seems to be getting a very wide range of responses from fans, some love it, some think it's the worst of the season. I thought it was good but not great. --Minderbinder 11:48, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Very informative, but lacking. Eggtown still reigns supreme as the least entertaining episode of the season (as with all Kate-centric eps in their respective seasons). Anyone else not liking the "the freighties are good, no wait bad, nope good" thing? I felt from day one that Charlotte was diabolical in some way but that Daniel was generally a good person. Then when Charlotte interacted with Daniel in the past few eps I thought maybe she just seemed bad because she was captured by Locke. Now it's like "why the heck didn't she just tell Kate she was saving everyone's lives?" Also, from the spoilers and the interviews, especially with Michael Emmerson, it seems like Ben's going to be right and the boat people will be evil and Ben will be viewed as the hero. But then we keep seeing that the helicopter people that Ben so badly wants to kill are good but their boss is evil (we now know who it is! woohoo!) and Ben is still kind of an a--hole. --macosx 15:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I totally agree with you, they are doing the same thing with Ben, making us think he's good, then that he's evil. Frankly i'm getting sick of this game the writers are playing with us, we have reached the point where it renders the character's words usless. It's not entertaining, it's just annoying. (they've done the same thing with Alias, where they had the "big boss" that was mainly evil, but from time to time came to the rescue, and then went back to he's evil ways. it was the same with the main character's mother, and then a cliffhanger that had the viewer believe her boyfriend was evil, in the last few episodes). If any of the writers read lp, please stop this! --CharlieReborn 18:50, 7 March 2008 (PST)

"You look just like her"

Ben's childhood friend Annie? they grew up became lovers, she got pregnant and died in the island. Juliet reminds him of her. If sayid is the man in the freighter...Is it just me or this show is getting really stupid? (unsigned)

If you remember last season, Juliet supposedly looked like Sarah Shephard too. She doesn't look anything like Annie. So is/was Sarah seeing Ben or does someone else look exactly like Juliet/Sarah. With so few episodes left, there is nowhere good for this to go. Dharmatel4 20:12, 6 March 2008 (PST)

I hope the "her" is either Ben's mother (although that wouldn't make much sense) or Annie, because if it turns out to be Sarah that would be beyond stupid.--HaloOfTheSun 23:46, 6 March 2008 (PST)

We've never seen an older verison of Annie, so who's to say Juliet doesn't look like her? I'd say it's a much better bet that Ben seeing Sarah. hatetodd 21:14, 6 March 2008 (PST)

I think it's his mother; check out Ben's Painting--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 21:33, 6 March 2008 (PST)

That's just creepy -- LOSTonthis darnisland 04:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

What it is, is Oedipal.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 09:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Annie is a young blonde white girl, Juliet is a grown-up blonde white woman. That's all it takes to make the statement Harper made. Look at serial-killer profiles, they tend to go after women with all the same hair colour, without any further connection and its often because they were hurt by a woman with that colour hair. Plus, the casting of Annie and/or Juliet probably wasn't in line with a comment to be made by a yet uninvented character in a yet unshown Season 4 episode. I'll admit though that its either Ben's mom or Annie, I just wanted to contest the idea that Juliet couldn't look like Annie. Wikistoriographer 11:02, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Actually, Annie has brown hair. From a story perspective, I think it would make the most sense if Juliet looked like a grown up Annie, but if that's the case, they did a terrible job of casting young Annie if we're supposed to buy that she ended up looking like Juliet when she grew up. Based purely on looks, Juliet looks much more like Ben's mom. --Minderbinder 11:52, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Is hair color really the only thing that's supposed to match for someone to resemble another person? What if a grown up Annie looks just like Juliette, only with brown hair? I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just saying that basing a theory purely on hair color is not that solid. -- blacxthornE t a l k f l a s h b a c k 12:04, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm not basing a theory solely on hair color. I'm just saying that if their intention was that Annie grew up to look like Juliet, it seems more likely they would have cast a blonde kid in the role - if that's what it turns out to be, there will certainly be people who will point out the difference in hair color. Unless they do something silly and stick a brown wig on Elizabeth Mitchell to play grown up Annie in a flashback. --Minderbinder 12:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I too believe "her" is supposed to be Ben's mother Emily. An Oedipal complex is just fitting for Ben. His Mother died giving him life, his father always caused him immense guilt because of that, blaming him to have murdered his wife. Ben kills his father to take revenge but certainly never looses the feeling of guilt. Going by how he followed her "ghost" into the unknown jungle, his mother must seem like an Angle to him, not least because his father most likely told little Ben only how good and beautiful his mother was and how much she wanted that child. Juliet resembles her so much and Ben must feel like his mother came back to him, a moment he secretly craved for all his life. He mistakes the pure love of a son for his mother for real love or better: the love of a son transformed into real love for this woman. He might not even consciously realise why he is drawn to Juliet, he just follows his heart. It would be dumb by the producers not to play the Oedipal card on Ben. It's just so logical. Annie is just a ruse. Roger 13:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Another vote here for mother. They do look similar, after all. --Litany42 19:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

How 'bout Libby? They do kinda-sorta look alike. We all know Libby is due for some development, so maybe there's a connection there. I don't think it is Libby, personally, but at this point it is possible.--Vico 21:05, 7 March 2008 (PST)

The Man On The Boat

I'm almost dead certain that Ben's 'man on the boat' is Michael. Why not? He told Locke it was going to be a shock (his words were 'you might want to sit down for this') Ten bucks says its Michael. Also speaking of Michael, are we ever going to learn about Walt's 'special' abilities? Or is that just another season one dropper?

Well, first off, we're obviously going to learn more about Walt's abilities. If you watched the mobisodes or even last season finale, you know that he's still important. Second, I'm now pretty sure that the man isn't Michael; the promo man said we would be seeing a face we had never expected to see again, and Harold Perrineau has been in the credits for most of the season, and we've been expecting to see him pretty much since he left anyway. Of course, promos can't be trusted, so my other thing is: How would Ben have gotten hold of Michael again? The man's off the island with his son; Ben has no more chips to play there. I think it's Mikhail.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 21:26, 6 March 2008 (PST)

But keep in mind that the promos arn't really made for "us". They are made for the average audience members like my mother who would never pick up on the fact that Perrineau's name has been in the credits all season without me there to point it out to her. :) hatetodd 21:36, 6 March 2008 (PST)
Also, if it were Mikhail, he would have to have been traveling to from the boat during the early stages of all this. He was seen at both the Other's camp and in the Looking Glass after knowledge of the frieghter being off the coast was given on the show. hatetodd 21:52, 6 March 2008 (PST)
Ben could have some influence on Michael if Ben helped him after he left the island. Michael wouldn't be able to go back to his old life because he would have to answer questions about the plane crash, etc.. He and Walt would need money and new identities, and as we know from the closet o'secret identities, Ben's good at procuring both. --Emily76 22:04, 6 March 2008 (PST)
Also, in the official podcasts, didn't Lindelof and Cuse confirm that Mikhail is dead? Maybe this is how they're introducing their zombie series, lol. Lindsaynickel 22:34, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Carlton Cuse has said that "Mikhail is dead at least twice.", and that "dead does not mean that you can’t reappear". -- blacxthornE t a l k f l a s h b a c k 09:07, 7 March 2008 (PST)

INDEED, Michael is almost certainly Ben's 'man on the boat.' Who else could it be?? Ben told Locke he ought to be sitting down; therefore, the 'man on the boat' is someone Locke knew. And who else could it be? I can't think of any former cast members besides Michael (and of course Walt) who didn't DIE. IT COULD ONLY BE MICHAEL. And truth be told, I don't think he's with Walt anymore. I think those evil bastards are continuing to use Walt to play Michael like a pawn.C.m. 08:56, 7 March 2008 (PST)

As for the possibility that it's Mikhail, I don't think that would call for Ben to tell Locke that he'd better be sitting down. There is obviously going to be some emotional SHOCK to the revelation of who the "MOTB" is. It might be *surprising* to Locke that Mikhail was on the boat, but not shocking; after all, Mikhail was Ben's employee.C.m. 09:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

One could argue that it would be shocking to hear that the man on the boat is someone you've recently killed. We do not know if Locke knows about Mikhail returning once to save Naomi and another time to stop Charlie. -- blacxthornE t a l k f l a s h b a c k 09:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think the man on the boat is Walt. Whether the time anomaly affected him, perhaps he is all grown up. -- Perhaps the split in time and the ability to manipulate the furture across time lead Walt to become the captain!. --PMcgrath 10:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I think it would have to be Michael at this point, but here's an interesting tip that some of you may have seen on another Lost site: It's not so much about WHO the man on the boat is, but HOW. The opening credits for the last 5 weeks have had me convinced it could be Michael (or possibly Regina, since she always seems sketchy on the phone), but if it's him, the HOW Ben manipulated him into doing it is now the more interesting story for me.--Jeff 10:44, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Maybe it's Helen. Or possibly someone else from Locke's past.--Vico 21:16, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Plot Twists in Episode

I've notice that a few plot twists were taken out the section. C. Widmore being behind the frieghter seems like a pretty good example of a plot twist to me. I also think that the fact that Ben is now freed to live among the survivors in the Barracks would be considered a twist in the set plot as well, if for nothing else, while it may not have suprised us as a audience it suprised the characters of the show (Sawyer and Hurley) and ended the episode. hatetodd 21:34, 6 March 2008 (PST)

"The prologue begins like a flashforward, with Juliet apparently off the Island and subject of much publicity like the Oceanic 6, only for Tom to walk in and establish it as a flashback to her time with the Others."-quote

It never even occurred to me that this was a flash-forward. My wife either. I think this is a user's opinion, and not ness a plot twist.--moss ryder 09:58, 7 March 2008 (PST)
- It was very clear they ment to make look like she is one of the O6, but again, it was poorly written and badly preformed.
  - Actually, I think that was their intention, but I'll bet it didn't even occur to some people because they have completely ruled out the possibility of Juliet being O6 - why would she be, if she was never missing and went to the island voluntarily? --Minderbinder 13:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm so glad that it's Widmore's boat honestly, it's starting to tie things together more. Plus I was worried that it might have been BEN'S boat -- that he might have sent it after himself as kind of a mindf*ck on the castaways, and I wouldn't have put it past him. ... so, with the realization that it's Widmore's boat and last week's scene of him bidding on the Black Rock manifest from the estate of a Hanso -- despite the fact that Hanso and Widmore were rumored to be allies -- is it safe to assume that Hanso and Widmore might be at odds w/ each other? Or am I completly off-base. --Jeff 10:48, 7 March 2008 (PST)

The Tempest = Imperial Bunker on Endor's Moon?

When I watched "The Other Woman" it looked like the Tempest in both appearance and function was paying homage to the bunker near the end of "Return of the Jedi." Both are power generators, have a broken front entry panel, front doors that open sideways, in the forest, and while the events are going on in both another character is redeeming himself (Darth Vader and Ben). Do enough people agree to add it to the cultural reference section of the main article? Also, I'm sort of new to posting on Lostpedia and I don't really know how this User Talk system works, so I hope this gets added correctly :) --Cronikeys 23:29, 6 March 2008 (PST)

BASE jumping

Removed blooper about BASE jumping per http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmZyB_ghpa0 http://www.justviralvideos.com/viralvideos/16614/Base_Jump_From_Helicopter.htm and wikipedia:base jumping. -- LOSTonthis darnisland 02:57, 7 March 2008 (PST)

That is still not accurate, but so be it. By definition, BASE refers to a jump from a fixed object, either natural or man-made. Thus, helicopters do not qualify. Youtube videos are hardly a source of information. But even in the second video link (which is one of Felix's jumps) you will see that he lands on top of a building and then jumps off again. That is the real BASE jump there. He just couldn't find any other way to get to the roof. Go figure

Valve?

The computer screen in the Tempest repeatedly has the word "Valve". Is this a reference to the Lost easter egg in the Valve game HalfLife 2: Episode 2? The number of times that word appears on screen is very unusual. Tin 04:34, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm sure the machines containing the gasses would have dozens of valves. wikipedia:valve. Froglars 04:57, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Daniel's Map

If someone taped the HD broadcast maybe we'd be able to read some of the lettering on this..

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1868/danielmappm5.png

--Joffeloff 07:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Other then the word Unknown is that the symbol for the Tempest?

The Numbers References

In the recurring themes, they call the lock combination a reference to the numbers. I think with only 1 out of 3 of the safe combo numbers being one of The Numbers, this is decidedly NOT a reference to the Numbers. I think we're trying to de-code too hard.Wikistoriographer 08:34, 7 March 2008 (PST) Ben tells Locke the safe combination: 36 15 28. (The Numbers)

I agree that it is not a meaningful reference, but you can't tell me that the producers and writers "randomly" or "accidentally" added 15 to the combination, or that it is incidental (especially in a show whose major theme is about free will vs. fate). I think that anytime one or more of "the numbers" is used, it is a reference however large or small. Trying to de-code too hard would be pointing out that 36-28=8... --Litany42 09:54, 7 March 2008 (PST)
- Actually, I disagree with your statement. Pointing out that 36-28=8 gave those two numbers at least a little significance. Numbers come up all the time and every time 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 or 42 occur should not be pointed out. When these numbers are in proximity, the reference gains creedance, like the jersey numbers on athletes shirts in the airport or police car numbers. Just hearing the number 15 in the show should not be considered a reference.Wikistoriographer 10:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Harper's disappearance

It's really easy to run away into the jungle at night when everyone is looking very intently in the other direction. Harper's "disappearance" isn't an unanswered question, unless you're trying to suggest that she did it supernaturally, which in my opinion is theory baiting. Thoughts? Jimbo the tubby 09:08, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Its not baiting. Her whole appearance and disappearance has no easy explaination. Dharmatel4 09:43, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Beat me to it. I think as an isolated incident, it might be theory baiting, but it is part of a series of strange events: the whispers, the question of how Harper talked to Ben when he's been locked in a basement, the question of why Harper and why now, and Juliette's reaction to Harper. Is this an instance of Harper "appearing" like Walt does? Or is she real? That's the question her sudden appearance/disappearance raises. --Litany42 09:47, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Rewatch that section; Jack looks totally confused at Harper's sudden disappearance. --Spiral 10:36, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Its certianly an unanswered question. The way she pops up behind Juliet really shows that she was meant to come out of nowhere. If Harper had really just snuck up out of the jungle her body language would have been totally different. She was standing as if she'd been there all along. I'll admit her disappearance would have been easy to just run away since Jack turned all the way around for a significant amount of time, but the overall scene shows we were supposed to see her as appearing and disappearing out of nowhere. Wikistoriographer 10:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)
- Theres something to the whispers and the travel methods of the Others. This is probably just a way to remind us of what the others can do. I for one was becoming complacent with the new personality of The Others. I was starting to question why they seemed so normal now when they used to be able to travel without leaving a trail or their seemingly superhuman strength. Wikistoriographer 10:45, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Harper is likely dead, maybe off island (boat? perhaps?) and is now part of the collective consciousness that manifests in the smokemonster/jacob... like Sawyers' boar, Jacks' father, Kates' horse, etc. I'm also not sure that this impression of Harper is actually in contact with Ben.--PMcgrath 10:50, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I still disagree, but I guess I'll go with the consensus on this one. Although, I'm curious... PMcgrath: how do you figure that she's likely dead? I saw nothing to suggest that. Jimbo the tubby 11:05, 7 March 2008 (PST)

- It seems to be Dead things/people that appear in the whispers - and these things seem to manifest to manipulate the people on the island. There are cases where the death is unconfirmed (like Hurley's mental friend) -- but I guess that the black lawyer is a member of the slave ship... but this show is full of theories. :-)--PMcgrath 11:25, 7 March 2008 (PST)
  - I don't know if there's any evidence to support it, but the vibe of her appearance gave me (and the other people I was watching with) the impression that she was appearing as a vision, like walt or Jack's dad, and not a real person. It doesn't seem like that's the case based on the rest of the episode, but it was odd how they handled that scene. --Minderbinder 11:59, 7 March 2008 (PST)

- Ben's mom appeared in the jungle after being dead, there were Whispers there too. check out the transcripts. there is even one where you can hear Boone say "Hi sis" right after Shanon dies.

I don't really like this question being on the unanswered questions section. What I think it's really getting at is whether or not it was Harper or an apparition of some kind (maybe the monster), which is certainly a valid theory, but it's a bit too speculative/theory-baiting to go in unanswered questions.Liquidcow 16:11, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I changed it to "How is Harper able to suddenly appear and disappear into the jungle?" because I think that the other wording implied more of a supernatural answer. I believe that the whispers and the Others are completely separate, until it's proven otherwise, so I'd rather not imply that the two come from the same source, even if they're often seen/heard together. Jimbo the tubby 20:03, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Henry Gale's Balloon and Boat Race

Henry Gale (the real one) arrived on a hot air balloon with a "Widmore Labs" logo on the side. Could this have been another one of Charles Widmore's first attempts to find the island, along with the boat race that he organized that Desmond was on? --Narte 10:31, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Check the theory pages for the balloon and boat race, I'm sure that theory has been on both for a long time. --Minderbinder 12:00, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Ratings

Hello all,

Last night's episode in my opinion was great, not as awesome as some of the previous ones. It just could have been better. Although, It got me excited to find out that Charles Widmore is behind the finding of the island, plus seeing a new station was cool. The story and flashbacks of juliet were unnecessary... I did not need to know about her past, I felt it was a waste of an episode. Just like Eggtown. They need to do better, otherwise the ratings will go down.

I have some unfortunate news to tell you guys. The Other Woman was rated fairly low by the fans. As you can see in the image below:

What do you guys think??

-- Nusentinsaino talk contribs email 10:37, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I dont think that the flashbacks were unnecessary. It was more that they were badly plotted and written. Turning Ben into a cartoon villian standing over a dead body telling Juliet that she belonged to him was lame. The whole dinner scene was pathetic too. And the writers didn't quite catch the irony of Juliet's new man (Jack) being an alcoholic stalker. And creating a throwaway character like Harper out of nowhere was lame. And finally, playing up the freighter people with "maybe they are good after all" twist endings at this point is DUMB. The episode failed because it was badly written and not true to the characters. Eggtown was similarly bad because the writing was bad. The only thing I can think of is that they rushed some of the scripts because of the strike last fall. Dharmatel4 11:09, 7 March 2008 (PST)

To comment on the last bit, I think that's a significant point - as we're getting into the last few episodes filmed before the strike, they are more likely to be filmed after the strike started meaning the writing may have been rushed, and they weren't able to do rewrites. I'd be curious to find out exactly which episodes were shot during the strike if anyone can find the info anywhere. Considering the circumstances of this season, I think it has been pretty damn good so far. --Minderbinder 12:03, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Well, to me, it seemed like one of the best episodes in S4 so far. Well, I got a flu right now, so that might be it, but I really liked it. Altough I start to hate Locke more and more and more - and I thought it is not possible to hate him more when I saw him enter 77. Wel, it is possible. --Running 12:34, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I really liked it too. I liked seeing that about the freighters, and really hoped Daniel would be a "good guy". I don't think that they're entirely good or bad. Here we have Ben and Widmore against each other. I think each is "bad" and that neither can really be trusted. So neither is really a "good side". Everyone else is trying to figure out who these people are and who's right. I think Daniel and Charlotte have their own agendas, their own reasons for being interested in the island, and that doing some of these things Widmore wants is just a way for them to be there. I liked seeing that they were helping, and I liked seeing more about Juliet. I didn't see anything as untrue to the characters. Lindsaynickel 14:20, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I liked this episode, too. Why must people keep comparing one episode to another? If you feel it was "untrue" to the characters, maybe it's because you've already judged and made up your mind about the characters. Character arcs are fun little hooks. If you stop taking the show so seriously for two seconds, maybe you could appreciate that. I guess all I'm trying to say is some peoples' expectations are way too high.

Timeline Thoughts and Analysis for this Episode...

This seems like it's going to be tricky to pinpoint exact events in this episode... Here's my attempt at a Juliet/Ben flashback timeline.

[Before Day Zero / Plane Crash]--------

3.16 - Juliet arrives on Island, Meets Ben

4.06 - Juliet with Harper / Ben gives her the house

4.06 - Juliet loses a patient (Henrietta), Meets Goodwin

4.06 - Juliet researches with Ben, Goodwin brings sandwich / Harper harps

3.16 - Juliet loses a patient (Sabine), Goodwin comforts her / Ben makes deal with her to save Rachel from cancer

4.06 - Juliet and Goodwin on the beach

3.16 - Juliet and Goodwin in bed, Ben visits with x-rays, Juliet calls him a liar

3.01/3.16/MP12 - Juliet burns muffins, shows Amelia the envelope, holds book club

3.01/3.16/4.06 - Flight 815 crashes, Ben deploys Ethan and Goodwin / Ben takes Juliet to see Mikhail and shows her Rachel

[Day 12]--------

2.07 – Last of the Listed Tallies Kidnapped

[Day 21(ish)]--------

4.06 - Ben Holds a "Dinner Party," discusses the Tail Section with Juliet

[Day 27]--------

2.07 – Goodwin is Killed

[After Day 27, Before Day 49]------

4.06 – Ben shows Juliet Goodwin’s body, declares her to be “his.”

[Day 49]------

3.14 – Ben and Juliet visit the Pearl Station and spy on Jack. Ben finalizes his plan to kidnap and “break” Jack. Juliet thinks he’s cute.

[Day 58(ish)]------

2.14 – Ben found in Danielle’s trap

SO the tricky spot, timeline-wise is the “You’re Mine” scene. It was probably not long after Day 27, but who knows…

I wonder at Juliet putting up with Ben in the “Expose” scene after such a traumatic experience with Goodwin… You know what I would LOVE, if she very casually tricked him into getting caught in Danielle’s net and left him for dead :) … now THAT would be a great Flashback ending, and it could parallel island events that show her truly being “free” of Ben’s hold. --DesmondExMachina 11:23, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Ben has to show Goodwin's body to Juliet before Day 47. We see Goodwin's severely decomposed body on that day. Given the state of the body when Juliet sees it, I would say it has to be within a week of death at most. (Day 34). Dharmatel4 11:35, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Good call on the timeline - you could also add the other mobisodes if you wanted, one about walt, and one with Michael, as well as Exposé, which showed Ben and Juliet in the Pearl station. --Minderbinder 12:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

the list and the kids

there is interesting dialogue between Ben and Juliet - I will try to rewrite it here:

B: I wanna thank you for how wonderful you have been with Zach and Emma
J: They are really sweet kids. (pause) Ben, they have been asking me about their mother in Los Angeles.... I am not really sure what to say.
B: They will stop asking in time.
J: They are children. Do they really belong here?

*B: They are on the list, Juliet. Who are we to question who is on the list and who is not?

J: Now that we have everyone on the list from the tail section, what about Goodwin?

(....and so on....)

well, what can that mean? who creates the list? and so on.... --Running 12:44, 7 March 2008 (PST)

The show has already made mention of a list from Jacob. Based on the "who are we to question" comment, Jacob seems likely for this particular list. --Minderbinder 13:07, 7 March 2008 (PST)

yes this conversation was quite interesting tho there was mention of Jacobs list, the reshowing of the crash from the perspective of the bunker and ben saying that he wanted lists from Ethan and Goodwin leads me to believe that there is more then one list out there. I still dont get that whole list thing i hope that it comes to light soon.

There are quite a few lists, I'd recommend reading the article Lists. --Minderbinder 13:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

too much quoting

The synopsis section is full of quotes, most are unnecessary. Just thought i'd point this out since I'm too lazy to convert/delete them myself. --CharlieReborn 13:24, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I totally agree. Starting with the quotes, it needs to be simplified.--Vico 21:41, 7 March 2008 (PST)

the whole valve code

I don't know if this is interesting enough for the article, but I (as a unix geek:) ) have watched the Tempest part few times and as I have watched the "computer" part, I have noticed that there is this code repeated more times (never in whole, always only some part):

>:set valve 21B = close
V21B NOT RESPONDING

>:BC22 reset
BC22 RESETTING ..... RESET COMPLETE

>:set valve 21B = off
VALVE 21B REPORTS CLOSED
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CROSS FEED ASS 16 OVERPRESSURE ALERT!

>:set vent C = open
VENTC REPORTS OPEN
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CROSS FEED ASS 16 OVERPRESSURE ALERT!

>:master caution reset
MASTER CAUTION RESET
 
>:telnet tmpst4
CONNECTION REFUSED
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TES/31 VAPOR PRESSURE 81%

>:set n-p/hgd tank cooling = MAX
FMNT TANK COOLING = MAX
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TANKS 1, 2, 3, 4 INTEGRITY FAILURE.
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
NEW ALARM
TES3/31 VAPOR PRESSURE 100%
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.

>:set valve BC22 = open
VALVE NOT RESPONDING
MASTER CAUTION AND WARNING!
CONTAINMENT BREACH IMMINENT!
EVACUATE NON-ESSENTIAL PERSONNEL.

>:set valve BC (something)

In the end, when they save the world again, the code is the same to last "set valve BC22 = open", but it ends with

>:set valve BC22 = open
VALVE BC22 REPORTS OPEN

>:master caution reset
MASTER CAUTION RESET
NO CURRENT ALARMS
SYSTEM PRESSURE WITHIN NORM PARAM
TANK INTEGRITY TEST REPORT SECURE

On the more "colorful" monitor, there is:

some random, big red numbers, changing every moment (too lazy to find some pattern in it)
some random small numbers with letters, also changing
the time to detonation
the sign

CONTAINMENT PRESSURE MONITOR
SYSTEM 2.6 V1.0.2
.....
PRESSURE OVERLOAD: ENGAGED
PRESSURE LIMITER: OFF

and the output from "shell" from the "green" monitor :)

Ïf you think it is useful, include it into the article :)

--Running 13:59, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Oh well, maybe I will at last :) --Running 14:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I'm having a problem understanding why they sent an eccentric physicist to do complex process work using what seems to be an early 80s computer system. (Did they even have computerized process systems back then...?) Is it simply a secondary mission that Daniel is *most* adept at out of the people sent to the island? Anyone out there know enough about process systems to fill us in? --Litany42 19:18, 7 March 2008 (PST)

dunno but thx for all the work in getting all this logged!--J.nc 20:49, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Dollar Bill

Did anyone else think that the bill Locke gave to Ben was actually Henry Gale's $20 bill with the note to his wife on it? Seems like an odd item for Locke to keep after the crash otherwise (unless it's from Ben's secret room). --Hugo815 14:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

It definitely looks like a single to me. I agree that it was weird for him to have it on him, especially since it looks like it was the only bill he had. --macosx 15:27, 7 March 2008 (PST)

It could also be the $1 Ben lost to John from the bet he told Sayid about. I thought he was joking though. --Hugo815 15:39, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I wondered if there was something significant about the bill, whether there was something written on it perhaps. Maybe, maybe not.Liquidcow 16:16, 7 March 2008 (PST)

I assumed it was one of the bills from Ben's secret room. Locke is giving him the bill to let him know the room is no longer a secret. --Litany42 19:10, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Cultural Reference to King David

There is a similarity in Ben's action to leave Goodwin undercover with King David's sending "Uriah the Hittite" to his doom in order to take his wife, Bathsheba.

While Ben doesn't include instructions to abandon Goodwin, like David did with Uriah, he did hope that Goodwin's end would come so that there would be no competition for Juliette. --Vorpar 15:40, 7 March 2008 (PST)

Interesting but a little tenuous perhaps to go in the article, unless you can find a more direct reference somewhere that might prove they had the King David thing in mind.Liquidcow 16:14, 7 March 2008 (PST)

clarifications

"Suddenly, Tom appears, and wants to take her to Ben." Wants to take Juliette.

"When Juliet says "You didn't have to do all this, I mean, I'm only here for six months,(quote moved to after comma for US standard English) ' Ben responds, suspiciously, 'Right. We just wanted you to feel at home.'" This is not exactly what Ben says, so do not use full quotes.

He said "Right. Of course, but we want you to feel at home" --Hugo815 17:31, 7 March 2008 (PST)

"The man then gets beaten up and killed." This is implied but is it certain (as much as anything in LOST is certain)?

Notinpdx

Unaswered Questions removal

How was Goodwin's injury caused?

I got the impression the important bit about this is that Goodwin lied about the injury. if he works in a chimical factory, he is likey to get burned. please agree/disagree below.

Then why would he lie about it. Why keep it a secret?