Uncategorized discussion

Wow, I like your theory, it makes sense. However, I'm almost wishing I hadn't read it. It's so good, it may have spoiled the epilogue for me. I didn't realize the epilogue had a title now. Just a thought, I know this is just a theory, but it's a very good one and I'm wondering if there should be a note warning others that may not want to know too much before viewing the epilogue. Looking forward to the August 24th release. --Just Sayin' 12:25, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Why should there be a note? There is no such thing as a spoiler anymore; the spoiler policy is retired. And really, it's spoiled it for you? Really? It's just telling you who it'll be about, and what it'll answer. Not what those people will do, or what the answers are. --Golden Monkey 14:08, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

DUH! Yes, I know there's no spoiler policy and acknowledge I know this is just a theory. As stated, it's just a thought. After reading the theory, I just wished I hadn't read it. I MAY not be alone in that thought process, although anything is possible. And, yes it does offer some speculated answers to some questions left unanswered in the series. I really don't appreciate your judgemental attitude, simply because I'm not in the same thought process loop as you. TGFT....--Just Sayin' 14:23, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Uh? How does it offer "answers" of any sort? It just says something will be answered, not what the answer is. Jorge Garcia is the one who confirmed that it'll be answered[1], so it isn't a theory or speculation either. --Golden Monkey 16:27, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • I modified part of this page because I believe that the information you provided is not sensitive or considerate of the many people who would prefer not to be privy to such information. It is in our best interests to minimise as much "leaks" as possible, spoiler policy or no spoiler policy. --Dharmafolk 16:30, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • And now you added more inconsiderate information. Wonderful. Dharmafolk 16:33, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
      • Apologies for my sarcasm, the spoiler alert eases my concerns for the moment until a full discussion has taken place on the matter.--Dharmafolk 16:34, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Thank You for the Spoiler Alert. The point, we're making here is there is enough information, that in retrospect, I personally would have preferred to avoid until watching the epilogue myself. This is not intended to be anything personal toward anyone; just a another perspective to be considered in the discussion. I'll add my apologies for my sarcasm as well. --Just Sayin' 16:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Episode Number

How about 18 or 19? The End was 17/18. This comes after The End. So maybe the number should too. I'll put in 18 for now, if somebody objects feel free to change it. --Golden Monkey 21:37, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

  • 6x18 is The End, Part 2. Wouldn't using 6x18 twice cause problems with the templates? Besides, I'm not sure the epilogue was given a proper production code # by the production team. I mean... in terms of appearances / episode count, is it even considered to be part of Season 6? Or an episode for that matter? I somehow imagined this would be treated as a mobisode by Lostpedia, though I must admit I'm not quite sure what gave me that idea. --LeoChris 22:27, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • 18 works for now, but as LeoChris says 6x18 is actually "The End, Part 2". Then there is the fact that the finale apparently has an extra 20 minutes of deleted scenes added back into it, which brings it to enough for 3 whole 40 minute episodes. So technically there is a 6x19 knocking around on the DVD depending how they split it up. The mobisode articles say "Missing Pieces" for the the season, so perhaps we should call the season for this minisode "Epilogue" and just make it ep|ex01 on the template.--Baker1000 22:58, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  • Done --Dharmafolk 23:01, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
I personally will look at the end as having 3 parts and just put this epilouge into the episode as if it was always there I believe that was the writers intention but they couldnt get another half hour out of abc. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  23:01, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
We'll have to wait until the DVD to see if anything else has been added back into the finale. Before it aired I read that an additional 20 minutes would be added back in that they had to cut. Then after it aired I start hearing about this epilogue too. I don't believe the they would have ended the show with the epilogue scenes simply because they wanted to end the series with Jack's eye closing. That's why it is on the DVD and not aired on TV, because the final image was always going to be that. BTW I didn't realise but we'll need to make an "Epilogue" sectionbox like we have a separate one for the Missing Pieces. Otherwise the standard episode box tries to link to a season article. Or we could just use the MP template, but that might create problems with categories. Can't have this categorised as a mobisode, can we? I'll have a go at it tomorrow if no one else does, but feel free to beat me to it.--Baker1000 23:01, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
How about adding TNMIC after "The End" in the list, but without an episode number? It logically belongs at the end of the list, but giving it an episode number would be misleading. That also avoids having to decide how many episode numbers to assign to "The End". — Lawrence King (talk) 19:12, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Image released

DarkUFO has posted up a magazine scan with a first look from the epilogue. I've seen it, and I'm not sure if others will consider the image to be spoilerish. There is also a little bit of description about what's happening in that particular part of the epilogue. DarkUFO posted it on his homepage, so obviously he doesn't consider it a spoiler. Do we include it on this article though? Obviously we have a spoiler tag up, but it might not keep people from seeing it who don't wish to. I felt like this should be brought up before it just gets uploaded.--Baker1000 23:24, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the consideration Baker1000. It does sound exciting, and I can understand the hype around the coming of the epilogue. Personally, I would prefer to wait to see the images. However, for those who want to see it, maybe you could post a link to DarkUFO's website and magazine image. That way people can make their personal choice about whether they want to see it or not. Just a thought anyway. --Just Sayin' 23:53, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

Just another thought. When posting the link, perhaps a comment to not blog about this subject in consideration of those who don't want to know yet. --Just Sayin' 23:58, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
Well it's happened. A NEW BLOG about The New Man in Charge. Admittedly, I have not read it, however, there are some comments visible without going into the blog. I know there is no spoiler policy. But I do think it's important to make a statement there are some people attempting to avoid any spoilers about the epilogue, so either the dicusssions should be avoided until the epilogue comes out in August, or at the very least, consideration in these discussions are appreciated. Personally, I would prefer the former.

--Just Sayin' 11:16, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, the frequency is really picking up as far as blogging about the epilogue. Here's one to take a look at. I haven't read this one, but the length alone and some reactions, tell me it reveals a LOT of information. PLEASE TAKE NOTE: Not all of us want to get this much information before the expected release on August 24th. Isn't there something that can be done to avoid blogging epilogue spoilers?

Thanks! --Just Sayin' JSTalk LBC LBCTalk eMail 12:24, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Available online

Just a heads up thats its already floating around on the torrent sites, so watch out for spoilers. --Tirosh 17:36, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

It's embedded at - how is it a spoiler to watch the video in-full before it's released on a piece of plastic? --Jajasoon 19:22, August 6, 2010 (UTC) UPDATE: Clip has been removed for copyright issues and has been replaced with an "approved" clip. --Ncmacasl 20:35, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
It was a warning to those that didn't SEE it yet. Sorry i wasn't clearer. Tirosh 19:44, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
full 12 minutes are embedded at --Ncmacasl 01:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC) UPDATE: Clip has been removed for copyright issues. --Ncmacasl 20:35, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Why was this page locked?

I find it extremely hypocritical to see that this page has been locked and the synopsis deleted and then to see the same mod who deleted it link on the FRONT PAGE a review he WROTE that INCLUDES SPOILERS!! The hypocrisy of it is just unbelievable, not to mention that the Lostpedia spoiler policy has been retired as per the front page announcement.

Unlock the page and let us finish editing and while you are at it, add it to the season 6 episode bar.--Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 19:06, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Particularly, why was it locked by the same person who posted a review of it at tvovermind here[2] and then linked to that very review on the front page of lostpedia? Dogandpanda 02:13, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. It's not like it's a big secret anymore. Just about everyone has seen it now. DL and CC were talking about it on Twitter yesterday. The Lostpedia forums are full of discussion about it in the general forum and the mods there are not doing anything about that. It just seems pointless to lock this page --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 09:48, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not too fussed if we're allowed to add the content to the site yet or not, but if it's allowed to be discussed in the blogs (as per Jabrwocky), then surely we can't keep it out of the mainspace? It's gonna get real old reverting edits to the individual articles that epilogue gives us information about, particularly by bloggers who as far as they know are safe to do so. It shouldn't be one rule them and another for us. As for Sam's review, it mentions only two things that appear in the footage, but nothing about the story or answers given. So it's not like he's telling everyone what happens and then stopping them adding it to the article.--Baker1000 19:37, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
His review contains a fair few spoilers, including the picture. He names a MAJOR character that shows up that no one had any idea about before yesterday. Those are exactly the type of articles i avoided during the run of the show. Then he links it on the front page but deletes all the content of this article and locks it? Double standards much? It's saying one thing and doing another. He watched through an illegal source just like the rest of us. And if the spoiler policy hasn't been retired then why does it say that on the front page? Not to mention your comment about the blogs.--Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 19:59, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

New infobox

Instead of using the episode infobox, we could use the mobisode infobox for Missing Pieces, so it would look like (***CAST, WRITER, DIRECTOR AND EPISOSDE LENGTH SPOILER WARNING***) this (***SPOILER WARNING ENDED***). Agree? -  Rasmus Ni  Talk  Contributions  13:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense. I wish someone would comment on why it was locked though. Dogandpanda 17:08, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
Good idea, this is basically a mobisode since it features only a couple of people. Obviously where it says "mobisode transcript/images" we would need to have "epilogue trascript". Is there a way to do that for just this article without changing it for every mobisode?--Baker1000 20:22, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
I just edited the Infobox, so if you write | x=whatever then it removes Mobisode and writes whatever instead, so now it says Epilogue transcript and Epilogue images. The other mobisodes are not affected by the change. Better? -  Rasmus Ni  Talk  Contributions  19:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
Yep, much better. Now we just need the page unlocked...--Baker1000 19:55, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
The infobox is now added -  Rasmus Ni  Talk  Contributions  19:12, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

When can we add this?

So when can we add this. It's not like it's spoilers since it got leaked entirely so everyone can already see this but apparently people wanted to wait for the 24th so tomorrow it is the 24th, or actually tonight at midnight it's the 24th. So when can we add this?--NK-Metaltalkcontributions 09:37, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

  • At midnight tonight.

-- Julietfan2626 Talk Blogs

  • And at whose midnight would that be, since in 11 and a half hours it's midnight where I live, but for people living somehwere else it probably takes longer.--NK-Metaltalkcontributions 10:23, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
    • Midnight on the East Coast of America, the same time as we updated all the episode pages.--Baker1000 12:12, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

It's already 24 August!--Station7 07:20, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • What difference does it make, its already august 24, I mean its not like we gotta wait until more get it, we should be able to just edit it now, regardless. Buffyfan123 08:51, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think it's just that one of the SysOps hasn't been on to unlock it yet. I've been offline all day so I don't know who's been hanging around. Checking the history, it seems Sam McPherson has set the expiry time to 18:51 GMT (about 6 more hours) instead of midnight EST. Since it is August 24th, there is nothing to stop you adding the information to other pages.--Baker1000 12:14, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes we need to unluck the page. It's almost August 25 --Darth Stefan (Talk) 18:50, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Misc Comments

  • Santa Rosa is in Cali right? So why was Ben driving on the left side of the road? Also, I'd love to get my hands on that DVD booklet Ben had of all the Dharma films. Definitely loved the Betamax reference :) and how the Dharma workers acted like us fans. "We want answers!" No clue what my one question would be though. Will there be any further closure minisodes like this? Uzerzero 23:34, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
I think this was a one off. Not sure on the road laws in California, I'm British! And I believe the folder Ben had was actually the one from the Season 5 DVD DHARMA Orientation Kit. You can see the instructions for fitting the Jumpsuit patches which are included in the DVD set. Obviously the disc is not something from the set though.--Baker1000 00:11, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Santa Rosa is in California, and we drive on the right side of the road throughout all of North America. But we only saw Ben driving for a few hundred yards (meters). And he grew up learning to drive on the dirt roads of the Island, so he's probably not a very good driver anyway..... *grin* — Lawrence King (talk) 15:19, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone noticed that Ben lied (sigh) yet again when he told the warehouse workers the DI no longer existed? How could he be from the 'Head Office' of a company that no longer existed? That statement was a contradiction. He lied about the Lamp Post being unmanned for 20 years. Eloise Hawking oversaw the Lamp Post and as far as we know she was still minding that station in the 2000's. She was there when Ben, Sun, and Jack visited prior to their return to the island. 'Mysteries of the Universe' made a point of showing correspondence and bookkeeping records with Dharma logos dug out of the trash from the church above the station. When Ben tells the guys this lie, he words it a bit strangely by saying 'There hasn't been a human being at that location for 20 years'. Was that Ben's tongue-in-cheek way of saying Eloise was inhuman?

Another question - if I found out I worked for a company that didn't exist, the first thing I would like to know is who hired me, and who's sending me a paycheck? Ben's claim the food drops were automated doesn't add up, either. Using drones to drop the pallets fits with the story but the automation doesn't. Mikhail, in the Flame Station, had a control panel that allowed him to simply press a button and order a food drop. All Ben had to do was tell Mikhail to order a food drop and in a few days, it would arrive. Why does it need to be anymore complex than that? Perhaps Dharma did plan food drops 'in perpetuity' as the videos claim, but the 'Others' basically took over Dharma's operations on the island, they had a member minding the Lamp Post and paying the bills, why couldn't they take over the food deliveries?

Someone mentioned on here that maybe Hurley had something to do with the planning of the food drops. Based on the junk food included in the pallets, it looked like someone with a taste for that sort of stuff had a hand in the planning. A trained (Dharma) Nutrition expert wouldn't include a bunch of junk food and alcohol in such a package. --Wanda 02:59, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

He certainly was concealing a lot from them. But basically what he said about the seems to have been true about the Dharma Initiative: the DI hasn't existed for many years, and nobody from the DI has been in the Lamp Post. What he didn't tell them was that the DI was wiped out by the Others, who took over their records and most of their installations. So the Lamp Post has had no Dharma folks in it, but it has had some Others in it (Eloise). When he said "I'm from the Home Office", he didn't say it was the Dharma Home Office -- but he certainly let them believe that.
I don't think Hurley was responsible for the food drops. When the food drop landed on the Island in Season Two, it had a lot of junk food. And the Swan was stocked with junk food too. (See Apollo Bar and Dharmalars.) ("Adrift") ("Lockdown") ("Dave") And this was long before Hurley was in charge.
Maybe you are judging Dharma nutrition experts by 2010 standards? Or maybe Dr. Chang discovered that the unique magnetic properties of the Island aid in metabolizing the sugars and saturated fat which is unhealthy off the island? *grin* — Lawrence King (talk) 15:29, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
The posting I read about Hurley planning the food drops suggested he traveled back in time to arrange the food drops after he became the Island Protector. He had the money to pay for the drops made after the Hanso Group withdrew their funding. A trust fund could have been set up to pay the warehouse workers, to keep the Lamp Post functional, and pay for the food and supplies loaded on the pallets. Hurley could've taken a couple of 'hot stock tips' into the past, used them to support the trust fund indefinitely.
Hurley was a cook for DI during the 70's, and as far as anyone could tell, he was not a professionally trained chef. Nutrition standards haven't changed that much since 1977. My mom was born in 1914 and she knew that potato chips, cookies, and candy were bad for me - especially the store-bought kind. I think it's safe to assume the Dharma experts would have been 'in the know' about junk food.
I love the notion that the Island speeds up the metabolism but recall some comments other characters made about Hurley not loosing any weight while he was on the Island? He knew the stuff was bad for them but he also knew that people needed balance in their lives as well as their diets. Sometimes we need a little chocolate or peanut butter, even if it's not that good for us. Poor Desmond had a rough 3 years living in the Swan. Just imagine living in the Swan without an occasional Apollo Bar!
BTW, this parent article seems to have shrunk. What's going on with that? Are the vandals back to create mayhem?--Wanda 07:07, September 7, 2010 (UTC)


Right now it's listed under the categories for Ben, Hurley, Michael and Walt-centrics, although I suspect no real thought was put into adding those. The infobox doesn't have a centric. All the mobisodes have a determined centric, so this should too. It's got to be just Ben, right? Everything revolves around him and his role as the number 2. Hurley has one brief scene outside in the van. It's all from Ben's perspective.--Baker1000 23:44, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Ben-centric. We've conveniently already assigned it a photo of Ben. --- Balk Of Fametalk 23:59, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
It makes sense to be Ben-centric only; I'll change Hurley and Ben's centric info on the character page, right now they're each credited with a "shared centric" for it. --Jf518 00:07, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Dharma station

What dharma station were they at? Is it another off-island station or just a different facility? Lapidus7 03:30, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

  • I guess it was just another off island station like the lamp post
    • The subtitle tells you at the start. It's the Logistics Warehouse located in Guam. Just a warehouse, not a research station.--Baker1000 19:51, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


Can we create a navbox like the one's above all the other episodes. You know there is one for each season and this should either be given it's own one that links to the others (and vice versa) or added to the end of season 6's one. This is beyond my level of expertise. Mhtm 03:46, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

I would just like it added to the season 6 navbox after "The End". Afterall it is a part of season 6 and is on the season 6 DVD.--Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 15:46, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Chronology of training videos and continuity error

I added the following in the "Unanswered Questions" section of this page:

In the Hydra orientation film, Dr. Chang asks the viewer to keep his name secret, because "I wouldn't want to have to resort to using an alias in the future". However, Chang had been using aliases in orientation films prior to this time (he used one in the orientation film for the Arrow, which was made prior to the the Incident, whereas the Hydra film mentions the the Orchid station and was therefore made after the Incident). Assuming this is not a continuity error, why does Chang make this misleading statement?

Jf518 removed it, and wrote the following edit comment:

we don't know when Orchid station or Hydra station video was made, so they could be in the correct sequence for that comment to make sense

We do not know the exact date that the Hydra station video was made, but we do know it was after the Arrow video. Here are the details:

  1. We actually saw Chang recording the orientation film for The Arrow. He used the alias "Dr. Marvin Candle". ("Because You Left") This was in July 1977, on the fourth day after Jack and his party showed up. Immediately after making this video, he drove to The Orchid, which was still under construction, and was shown the X-ray of the donkey wheel for the first time. ("Because You Left") ("The Variable") Therefore, we can be absolutely certain that on this day, the frozen chamber with the donkey wheel had not been explored by Dharma, and therefore they had (obviously) not yet put any polar bears in that chamber. See Timeline:Post-return for more details.
  2. The Incident happened later that very same day. ("The Variable") ("The Incident, Part 2") See Timeline:Post-return for more details.
  3. In the training video for The Hydra -- whose full text can be seen here -- discusses The Orchid in some detail. For example, he states that "the electromagnetic levels at the Orchid have an extremely harmful effect on early term gestation," which clearly he did not know in July 1977. He also states that polar bears are being trained, given tracking collars, and then "transported to the Orchid station for the next phase of research." * Clearly he could not have made these statements prior to the Incident, because the Orchid was still under construction then.

In summary: The Arrow training video was made before the Incident; the Incident was before the Orchid station had become operational; the Orchid station became operational before the Hydra training video was made. Ergo, the Hydra training video was made after the Arrow training video.

And therefore, the fact that he uses an alias in the earlier video seems to contradict his statement about aliases in the later video. It's either a continuity error or an unanswered question. — Lawrence King (talk) 15:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Or it could be that, as the Hydra is on a different island, he only says to keep his name a secret because those guys will never meet Pierre. After all, it seems clear he doesn't agree with some of the experiments going on there and, seeing as his name is different in all the videos, it's hardly an alias like Kevin Johnson.
Other than this it could also be that higher ranking Dharma officals (like Pierre) did already know about the FDW and knew that the polar bears would eventually go on to turn the wheel, making it that the Hydra video could have been filmed before the Arrow orientation film. --Minty2057 16:32, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
That's not possible. As I pointed out in the chronology above, the Arrow orientation film was made before Chang even knew that the FDW existed. Remember, we saw the scene where the Dharma folks first discovered the wheel by sonar and showed the discovery to Chang. (See Frozen wheel#Discovery and Experiments by DHARMA for details.) — Lawrence King (talk) 17:07, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
The reason I removed it was because the pages for the Hydra and Arrow videos have no dates listed on them, so I assumed that those dates were not known. What you're saying makes sense though, but maybe the question shouldn't be so lengthy. It could probably stand to be condensed a little and then you can leave a note referring to this discussion so others don't do what I did. --Jf518 21:26, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
Good idea. I put some of this information into the articles The Arrow, Arrow Orientation film, and Hydra Orientation film. Then I shortened the text on this page. — Lawrence King (talk) 23:15, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Additional evidence

* In addition, when he says that polar bears are being used "at a secondary site where their comfort in cold temp...", I think it's pretty obvious that he is referring to the donkey wheel chamber. After all, that's the only frozen place we ever saw on the island, and we know from the Dharma bear in Tunisia that polar bears were used to turn the donkey wheel. This is even more evidence for the timeline. However, some editors might still consider this a "theory" rather that an established fact. In any event, even if we ignore this part, the timeline is still definitely established as above. — Lawrence King (talk) 15:47, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

This is a minor continuity error if anything, not an unanswered question. But it's really not even an error. We already knew Hydra had Polar bears before the incident. So DHARMA naturally made an orientation film before the incident. They'd probably make it first, since it's station one. They'd have to later add any details related to new Orchid discoveries. The Hydra film contains several obvious splices, and in the scene where Chang lifts the collar, his left arm is unseen and motionless. Let's say it's a prosthetic there. --- Balk Of Fametalk 23:40, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
He even changes lab coats at least twice during the film. It contains segments filmed at different times. --- Balk Of Fametalk 00:04, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Interesting. I didn't notice that. You know, given how advanced the Dharma scientists are, you'd think they could do a better job of 8mm film editing.... *grin* — Lawrence King (talk) 01:28, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Dr. Chang even comments on that in this 100% canon video.


How did Hurley and Ben were going from the Island, while all the DHARMA vans are on the Island? --Station7 16:55, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

A better question would be - how did they get a brand spanking new van, when the only working one we knew of was a rusted heap of junk? I thinl Hurley used his new powers to bring one to the Island, or even bring a mechanic.--Baker1000 20:41, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
Then again, Hurley had magical DHARMA van restoration abilities even before he gained his new powers. --- Balk Of Fametalk 21:21, December 18, 2011 (UTC)
That's true. I reckon he stuck a ramp at the end of that slope he used to jump start it. It took off smoother than Ajira 316 that's for sure.--Baker1000 00:06, December 19, 2011 (UTC)
Well, I still don't have an answer. Should make an unanswered question with it? --Station7 10:07, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

Does it have a logo on the front? It's been a while since I've seen it. Someone should check. If not then they probably just bought one of the same colour. If it does, then perhaps they still bought one and stuck a logo on it for old times sake.--Baker1000 13:10, December 19, 2011 (UTC)

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