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Talk:The Monster


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Damon/Carlton confirm Cerberus is "one name" for the Monster at Comic-Con: There are numerous sites reporting from Comic-Con, take your pick, but during the fan Q&A one fan asked if Cerberus was the name for the Monster and Damon/Carlton replied with something like "that's one name for it", and if I remember correctly, that's what DHARMA called it. We should merge or at least get rid of the Cerberus article and add the info here. ShadowUltra 08:40, 27 July 2007 (PDT)

merge

No merge cerebrus with monster until it is and if it is refenced to on the actual show as the same thing--Connor401 18:53, 27 July 2007 (PDT)

  • Yes merge. The words of the show's creators count as canon, since they determine what does and doesn't hold true in the show's universe. Even if the Monster is never called Cerberus in the context of the show itself, it's entirely appropriate to equate the two as long as all official sources external to the show consistently do so. If something couldn't be canonical until it appeared on the show itself, hundreds of pages of Lostpedia (e.g., everything from The Lost Experience) would be deemed non-canon. However, I do think that we should keep the title as "the Monster" after the merge, and just mention in the article's lead section that another name for it is "Cerberus". The reason this makes sense is (1) because, yes, it's never been called that in the show itself; but, much more importantly, (2) because the show's creators did not shout from the hilltops "The Monster's real name is 'Cerberus'"; rather, they made a very wishy-washy statement that Cerberus is one of the Monster's names, and did a lot to imply that Cerberus is not the official, all-encompassing, unequivocal title for the Monster—at least, not yet. For that reason, I think that although a merge is definitely warranted based on the comments at ComicCon, it may be wise to wait at least a little (until the name sees more in-canon usage or is more unequivocally endorsed by the Lost creators) before renaming the newly-merged article from the Monster to anything else. -Silence 19:00, 27 July 2007 (PDT)
Its a very difficult one on the basis that in the past we have amended articles on confirmation from the Official Lost Podcast, so similarly one could accept mere confirmation that the cerberus referred to on the blast door map is another name for the monster, as is security system etc - from Comic Con. It is a very weak spoiler, though admittedly a spoiler is a spoiler, and I don't think anyone would consider themselves "spoiled" if there was a paragraph about Cerberus and at the bottom one line saying "At Comic Con, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse confirmed that Cerberus is another name for the Monster, though added that this could simply have been the name given to it by DHARMA employees, namely Radzinsky" - or whatever. --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:55, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
If we're that worried about spoilers on this issue, why don't we just put a "spoiler" tag at the top of our Monster article to warn people away? I don't really think it's any more of a spoiler than the information we've gathered from The Lost Experience, though: just because something hasn't been revealed yet on the show doesn't make it a "spoiler", if it's some backstory that may or may not ever be revealed within the show, and was deliberately released by the creators to fuel speculation and anticipation for season 4. For that reason, I'd say that our the Orchid article doesn't need a "spoiler" tag anymore than our Hanso and DHARMA articles, which are full to the brim with information that people who just watch the show won't know about yet. So, we should definitely incorporate the information into the Monster; the only question is whether this revealed alias qualifies as a "spoiler" in some way that the Lost Experience does not. -Silence 14:36, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
  • Yes Merge Based on the evidence from 7-26-07: Comic Con San Diego when Damon says..."On the blast door map drawn by Radzinsky, C.V. stood for Cerberus Vents. That's Dharma's name for it, maybe. Cerberus is one of it's names." I think we have the proof we needed now --Hotgirl 11:48, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
I would say keep separate similar to The Others and The Hostiles. It should be mentioned in both articles that the Cerberus name was confirmed by the writers at Comic Con (no spoiler tag needed). A merge will then take place if and when we learn more i.e. is Cerberus its "proper" name, etc. There's a lot of info in the Cerb article that we can keep separate as information regarding specifically that given name for the Monster. --Nickb123 (Talk) 14:41, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
But The Hostiles and The Others aren't completely synonymous. If they were, then they'd be the same article, for the same reason that "the Natives" and "the Hostiles" are the same article. The Hostiles/Natives are a subgroup within the Others that predates the Purge; "the Others" is a more general term, encompassing the Hostiles/Natives as well as the later additions to the group (e.g., Ben and Juliet). In contrast, ComicCon confirmed that "Cerberus" is nothing more than a name for the Monster, just what certain people (almost certainly the DHARMA Initiative) call the Monster. That seems reason enough to do a merge for now. We can always re-split them again later if it turns out that they aren't completely synonymous, but right now it sure seems that way, based on all available official information. Any postulated difference between Cerberus and the Monster would necessarily be fan-speculation, so we shouldn't encourage it anymore than we encourage distinguishing "the Monster" from "the Smokemonster". But if we do keep around a Cerberus article, it should mainly be about the mythological dog, with a link to the Monster at the top; otherwise we'll just end up repeating the same information on both articles. -Silence 15:09, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
It already is mainly about the mythological dog as well as direct mentions to the dog on the blast door map and in the Lost jigsaw puzzle. And I'm not encouraging fan-speculation at all, I'm saying have them separate with Cerberus as "Cerberus is another name for the Monster (see main article). Here is information on Cerberus and when the name was mentioned in the show etc...." - until there is more information and a more thorough discussion on the show itself. --Nickb123 (Talk) 15:18, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
Cerberus is only currently mainly about the mythological dog because people didn't know until very recently that Cerberus was the same as the Monster. Now that this has been revealed, more and more redundancies between the two pages are likely to crop up over time as people fill the gaps in one page or the other. To avoid this happening, what about a compromise: have Cerberus redirect to the Monster, but move the current "Cerberus" page to Cerberus (mythology) so we can retain most of that information without making our Monster article overly long. The only other option seems to be the one you mentioned: leave the two articles where they are, but link to the Monster at the top of Cerberus. My only worry is that the latter would likely cause confusion over whether Cerberus and the Monster are the same thing; a redirect would leave no doubt. (Of course, a counter-argument would be that confusion is a good thing here, because it makes it easier to avoid spoiling people who do a search for "Cerberus": we could put a spoiler tag at the top of the Cerberus article so people can avoid having its identity revealed to them. But my inclination is that that's going way too far to avoid spoilers.) -Silence 15:28, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
The option I mentioned is better at the moment than a merge because the Monster article is huge without throwing in all the information from the blast door map, so its much more practical to have a section of the Monster article called Cerberus with the only key information we know at this point "its another name for the Monster say the writers". Then have a link to Cerberus article for more information on this name and where its been mentioned, to the casual viewer Cerberus is completely new to them having not seen the blast door map in detail like more Internet engaged fans. There's no point making a long article even longer when all there is to say is that its another name - we haven't even heard them say this name on the show yet. Thus, a paragraph about Cerberus linking to its own article with more detailed explanation about what the hell a Cerberus has to do with Lost is much easier all round than doubling one of our longest articles - and it isn't a question of condensing or anything like that - they are better suited apart when we know nothing. --Nickb123 (Talk) 15:36, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
I would agree with this if the cerberus article was huge, but it's pretty small and most of it has nothing directly to do with lost but is an explanation of what Cerberus is, wouldnt a wiki link do the same job?--Hotgirl 15:43, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
As we know that cerberus is only one of the names for the monster from info given by TPTB at comic con, will this then justify having a seperate page for each individual name? Wouldnt it be better to have them all on one page with information on the seperate names under seperate headings?--Hotgirl 15:21, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
  • Don't merge - Come on everyone, this isn't really a critical issue at Lostpedia to get fired up about. In this case we have a gray area of canonicity from a source external to the episodes themselves. In this case we have two: 1) a comment by Cuse in an official podcast earlier this year, and 2) a comment from the Lost panel at Comic Con 2007 San Diego. Lindelof and Cuse have been known to make comments that were later contradicted and proven untrue by events in the actual episodes. This is why the canonicity is a gray area, and therefore I recommend following the pragmatic recommendations that nickb123 cites in keeping the articles separate for now until fully confirmed by episodes. However, definitely insert a second trivia point in the Cerberus article about the quote from Comic Con 2007. -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  16:40, 28 July 2007 (PDT)
  • Disagree with Santa's proposal. If we're going to keep the two articles separate (which I still currently oppose), I agree with Nickb's proposal instead: ignoring the word of Lindelof and Cuse and relegating it to an obscure little trivia section is doing a disservice to our readers. Just because they aren't right 100% of the time doesn't mean they're not still one of the most reliable sources outside the show we have, regarding canon. And they're certainly one of the most important, so if nothing else we should at least say at the top of these articles that Cuse and Lindelof have claimed that "Cerberus" is a name for the Monster. Nickb's idea of having a subsection on the Monster for Cerberus is more reasonable.
  • However, the main reason I still support a merge is because, on reviewing Cerberus more carefully, it seems obvious that this is an exceedingly poor article (although a very pretty one, with all its images) that consists mainly of fluff and outright speculation. If we moved that speculation to Theory pages, as we should certainly do regardless of the outcome, we'll be left with exactly the right amount of information to make a nice little "Cerberus" section on the Monster, without risking over-inflating this article.
  • Let's look at the Cerberus article, piece-by-piece: "Greco-Roman mythology" is just a summary of Wikipedia, and it digresses randomly into talking about Typhon even though this article is only about Cerberus. The "Possible references" subsection is 100% speculation! We have no reason to believe that "there are dragons here", "free yourself from hell", "no safe location dharmatel servers/hub/cabling for infrastructure", "I think therefore I'm sad", etc. have anything at all to do with Cerberus. Likewise, the "Trivia" section is almost entirely speculation (with a dash of irrelevant references), albeit slightly better-supported speculation. Once we remove the mountains of speculative theorizing, irrelevant references (e.g., Typhon), and dubious Monster/Cerberus collages to a Theory page, there will barely be enough content left to justify a section, much less an article. For that reason, a merge seems much more practical. -Silence 14:04, 29 July 2007 (PDT)
  • I agree with this. We should note that the two have been identified as one and the same in the Monster's lead section (though not necessarily the first sentence; it may be easier to note it at the lead section's end), in addition to doing the merge. -Silence 22:24, 29 July 2007 (PDT)
  • I also agree with this, it should be merged. Nick2010 19:10, 10 August 2007 (PDT)
  • Note that I've rewritten our Cerberus article, expanding the lead section based on our new information, and removing a heck of a lot of speculation and irrelevant factoids from the page; we should probably remove even more information to the theory page, since so much of it is still speculative. However, it's much clearer now than it was before just how little real, factual substance there was in the article, and how extraordinarily easy a merge would really be. The article's excess of fluff previously gave the opposite impression. -Silence 22:24, 29 July 2007 (PDT)
  • No merge: It IS confirmed that Cerberus is one of the names FOR the Monster, so the logic is, if there is any merge, Cerberus should be merged with the Monster, not the other way, as proposed, but there is still no need for that, two separate articles linking to each other (in any ways: See also or sth like that) are adequate. --   Steff    talk    contribs    email   09:53, 17 August 2007 (PDT)

Merge- It is confirmed that it is ONE of the names for it. This implies that there are other names and Cerberus may not be the official or PRIMARY name. It should be merged as a subsection in the main article until we know more.--Connor401 17:47, 14 September 2007 (PDT) Merge but keep "Monster" in Title- I say Make the new title for the article to " Cerberus (The Monster) " maybe???--Jabadibah 18:24, 16 November 2007 (PST)

Merge but leave the title as "The Monster". Including "Cerberus" in it will only confuse the less-hardcore/casual viewers and isn't needed. --SilvaStorm
Merge but leave the title as "The Monster". Add Cerberus as subsection --Hunter61 21:41, 13 December 2007 (PST)

DO NOT MERGE

I'd go with not merging until Cerberus is confirmed as the Monster on the show. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pennyj (talkcontribs) .

I say merge and redirect Cerberus to The Monster, it seems to have more than one name so the main page should always be The Monster.--CharlieG 02:40, 15 January 2008 (PST)

  • Merge - keep the title as "The Monster" and expand the Cerberus section. The Cerberus article is quite thinned down compared to what it once was; it's not going to make this article out of control. Better to have all of the information in the same location. I don't see the issue regarding a gray area of canonicity when it's been covered in the Official Jigsaw Puzzle and stated by the producers. If the worry is that something might come up in an episode contradicting the connection of Cerberus and the Monster, then we would just separate out the articles at that point. But as it is now, we have the connection, so they should be joined. -- Graft   talk   contributions  22:47, 28 January 2008 (PST)
  • No, Do not merge - Keep the original because that is what all the characters on LOST call it, None of them ever mentioned or even called it "Cerberus". Leave it as it is please.     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email  
  • Merge - Its pointless to have two articles for the same subject. Just keep "The Monster" as title --Gonzalo84 16:46, 17 February 2008 (PST)
  • Merge - Agree with above post, just put in a subsection in "The Monster" --Mapleleaf50 14:03, 26 February 2008 (PST)
  • DO NOT MERGE -- Not until it's referred to as such on the show in a definitive way. Now that we know that there is something else that might travel around the island via vents -- i.e., the gas from the Tempest station -- we ought to wait until it is confirmed that Cerberus is, in fact, the monster. Just because that's one of the names used for it doesn't necessarily mean that the people using that name are accurately referring to it. They, like us, might have heard that term and assume it and the monster are one and the same. --Toasty 19:01, 10 March 2008 (PDT)
  • No merge until the refer to it on the show, because Ben said that they do not have a name for it. --Darth Stefan 17:45, 9 April 2009 (UTC)Darth Stefan
  • Yes. There is solid evidence by word of mouth from the creators of the show. Need any more proof? No.

Strong disagree The producers said "cerberus" was one name for the monster, but it's never been mentioned by any character on the island, it's referred to as "the monster" and that's how this article should be named. The fact that no-one has mentioned "cerberus" as a viable name for the monster is reason enough not to rename (yet). It'd be like renaming Mikhail's article to Patchy, just because that's what the producers called him. Beeth 12:17, 3 October 2007 (PDT)

  • No, it's more like putting a note in Mikhail's page that he was referred to as "Patchy" and deleting the "Patchy" page. Merge. --Doc 12:54, 3 October 2007 (PDT)

Contradiction

"In "The Cost of Living", the Monster once again manifested as Yemi. It appeared before Mr. Eko several times, and told him that it was time for him to be judged. While Eko made his way to the Beechcraft (and Yemi's resting place), the Monster could be seen as wisps of smoke, circling Eko like a shark. It followed Eko quietly, as if stalking him. To test Eko, it manifested as figures from Eko's past, who exclaimed that it was time for him to be judged.

When Eko rested at a riverbank, it crept up over his shoulder. It seemed about to envelope him when Eko saw it's reflection in the water and stood up sharply. It pulled back into the Jungle just as Locke burst out of the foliage, looking for Eko.

It was not seen again until the end of the episode, after Eko had refused to ask someone or something in the guise of his brother Yemi for forgiveness. Following the figure into the jungle, Eko was met by the Monster, which notably expanded to over 40ft in height. It seized him with tentacle-like appendange, and it slammed Eko around the woods. (Interestingly, the path in which it moves Eko is the shape of a cross. It first went up, then sideways to one tree, sideways again to another tree, and finally up, before slamming Eko into the ground.) Moments later Eko died from the encounter. The Monster disappeared when its siren drew Locke and the other survivors over. It is unknown whether the appearance of Yemi was somehow related to the smoke, or whether he was some kind of manifestation of it."

Do we know for sure fake-Yemi was the monster or not? --Nogard 11:19, 18 November 2007 (PST)

  • If the fake Yemi was the monster, was Yemi's corpse the monster as well? --Doc 08:56, 14 December 2007 (PST)

Novelization Encounter

In the Lost novel Signs of Life, a number of characters (namely Locke, Charlie, Hurley, Jeff, and Michael) encounter the monster while on a boar hunt that was not mentioned in the TV series. As the novel is separate from the show, but, to my knowledge, considered canon, should it be added to the article? If so, I'd be happy to update the article. Morian Smith 19:31, 24 February 2008 (PST)

I added it to the non-canon section --Jackdavinci 10:03, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

Via Domus information

I guess, since Via Domus is non-canon, the information of "A New Day" and "Whatever It Takes" should be moved to the Trivia section. It should not appear between the facts of actual episodes. Am I right? -- • Effgeh •   • talk •   • contributions •  16:35, 5 March 2008 (PST)

Defense against The Monster

The Monster can't get people hiding in between the roots of the banyan tree (or whatever they are) and I think I know why. I'm not sure how to describe this but I'll try and hope someone gets what I mean. The Monster's entire physical "being" can't fully pass through but parts can. Like I said, I don't know how to describe it but hopefully somebody can. MeatyDoughnut 16:14, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

I get what you are saying a bit, let me clearify. The Monster has been seen in small parts, these small parts seem like they can combine to make a bigger cloud. So when it's big and more complex because of it's individual segments it can not pass through the roots of the trees. If that helps.

Me thinks that it has more to do with mythology then simple physical limitations: Banyan Tree on Wiki. To quote that: "In Hinduism, the banyan tree is considered sacred and is called "Ashwath Vriksha." God Siva as Dakshinamurthy is nearly always depicted sitting in silence under the banyan with rishis at His feet. It is thought of as perfectly symbolizing eternal life due to its seemingly unending expansion. Also in Hindu culture, the banyan tree is also called kalpavriksha meaning 'wish fulfilling divine tree'. In modern parlance in the Hindi language, it is known as Bargad, Vatavriksh, and Barh."

Cerberus and Hydra - Siblings

Should it be noted on this page that one of Cerberus's siblings is Hydra? (considering one of the stations has the same name) --Mr couchman 09:40, 19 March 2008 (PDT)

Exposé

I think that the "Appearances" section should have Exposé listed in them. You can claerly hear the cricket like sound of the Monster before the spiders came and in a recent podcast Darlton stated that the monster had something to do with the Spiders (as well as Yemi which should be added to the Cost of Living section of the page). Some people have said that they joke a lot and it can't be taken seriously but if that is the case nearly everything confirmed in any pocast should be taken down from the site. At a side note Damon was being serious when stating that the spiders had something to do with the monster and the only jokes were the Jack and Kate's Horse one. HolySock92 13:13, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

I would like to argue against having Nikki listed as a "Victim" of the monster. The monster may have bit her, but she was still alive, and would still be alive, if she had not been buried alive by Hurley and Sawyer. It is my feeling that victims of the monster should be limited to those directly killed by it in its smokey form.

  • I still think they were joking about the spiders being THE monster. Those spiders actually existed on the island, as evidenced by the one Dr. Arzt kept. I don't even understand why people thought those spiders had to be something other than spiders in the first place. We've seen animals act strange before (Sawyer's boar), I think it's the island itself influencing the animals. --Beema 17:05, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

The Shape of Things to Come

  • I swear that when the monster first charges, it has a face. The first little crackle of electricity at the tip of the charging creature, when still-framed, looks kind of like one of (mythical) cerberus's heads. BeatlesLover 13:31, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
  • I found a screenshot: http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg162/getlostpodcast/4x09/smokey1.jpg BeatlesLover 16:21, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
  • When it rolls down from the sky, it looks like a train just about to mow some stuff over. --Avindratalkcontribs email  20:31, 27 April 2008 (PDT)
  • From that screenshot the face looks like that of a dogs, which is appropiate. I think it's safe to assume this was intentional. MeatyDoughnut 14:02, 1 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Finding shapes and faces in clouds is a popular pastime. The front of the Monster cloud billows as the Monster moves, taking on no particular shape for any instant. Any resemblance to a face in any single frame of this billowing is simply creative thinking, the same way people saw a face in that mountain on Mars or in that rock formation in New Hampshire people said looked like an old man. I defy anyone to point out the face in this screenshot. Robert K S (talk) 14:38, 1 May 2008 (PDT)

4x09 No face on the Monster

Season 4

Notice how this season every time a manifestation of smokey appears, there is a reference to it before hand? In episode one Hurley sees Charlie in the window. A minute before hand we see "NO SMOKING" on the door. In episode 9, right before Jack's father appears the SMOKE alarm beeps. In episode 11 right before Richard appears the nurse says "Excuse me, you can't SMOKE in here"

Although it is assumed Smokey can't leave the island maybe it's "true form" is Richard and uses this guise to leave the island. That's why Richard doesn't age or have a birthday. Sorry for turning this into a Richard thing but some people might have argued about him being a manisfestation in ep11. MeatyDoughnut 13:32, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

His complexion certainly is dark enough. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  13:40, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

Producer comments redux

  • There's been some edit conflicts so I went back to the Official Lost Podcast/March 21, 2008 and wrote a Partial transcript of the relevant portion of the podcast. Here's the relevant portion of the answers. For the full text, see the transcript page.
    • Ben's mother Emily = "Apparition."
    • Sawyer's wild boar = "Animal."
    • Medusa Spider that paralyzed Nikki = "Monster."
    • Hurley bird = "Oh, I'm not gonna comment on that."
    • Dave = "Figment of imagination slash apparition."
    • Yemi = "Monster."
    • Mikhail's cat Nadia = "Animal. And coincidence."
    • Walt = "Walt the person is a person. But there are apparitions of Walt that may not be Walt, and also monster related."
    • Boone in Locke's dream = "Dream."
    • Jack = Damon: "Heh. Jack is an apparation. That's gonna be the big twist at the end of this season. He's not only in the future, but he's not real." Carlton: "No, no. He's making a joke!" Damon: "Yes."
    • Kate's horse (and Yemi and Christian Shepherd)= Damon: "We have this, this is actually a funny story. We have this board in the um, in the, in the room. With all the actors in the writers room. With all the actors who are on the show. All of the Oceanic 815ers. But then, all of the sort of recurs, like Penny Widmore, and Charles Widmore and..." Carlton: "We have their headhosts. So we keep track of who we have on the show." Damon: "So everybody, they go into a door that says "deceased" once they die, we move them over there, and then there's the door that says "undead". And on the undead door there's only three pictures. One of them is Christian Shephard, and one of them is Yemi. And the other one is..." Carlton: "Kate's horse. So Kate's horse is undead."
  • Note: One user thinks Damon said "A monster" rather than just "monster" in reference to the spiders. I listened to it a bunch of times. He kind of slurs out the whole word and emphasizes the first syllable, so I could see why someone might interpret that as an "a" slurring into "mahhhn" (mons-). It would have to be an "a" rhyming with "pawn" and not with "babe". But I wouldn't personally interpret it that way. And more importantly, he says "monster" the same exact way in response to the Yemi question. So if the spider is "A monster" than Yemi is too.
  • Note: Assuming the spider is the monster, Nikki isn't it's victim in the fatal sense. She was just paralyzed. Her death was from burial. So while I would count the spiders as a monster appearance, I wouldn't list Nikki as a victim.--Jackdavinci 13:14, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
    THIS WAS A JOKE BIT. Damon is laughing all the way through and I think it's irresponsible to consider the idea that the spider is the monster as cannon.

Is Nikki really a victim of the monster?

From what I know she does get bitten/paralyzed by a spider but didn't that already have a logical explanation? She unleashed a spider on Paulo and then many other spiders, attracted to the scent of that spider, came to that location and she also got bit. Sure you hear the monster in this scene but does that mean the spider is the monster? I'm sure the monster was somehow related to the event be it spectating or encouraging the event but the idea that it manifested itself as an itty bitty spider when Nikki was likely to get bit anyway doesn't seem right to me. In every other instance the monster killing someone has been pretty direct. It killed the pilot, Eko, the mercs, etc as a cloud of smoke, not as a manifestation or anything like that. I wouldn't consider Nikki a direct victim of the monster. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eleo (talkcontribs) 2008-05-31T16:28:19.

I agree; I think somebody wrote that as a joke. Of all the things smokey can do, I doubt very much that he compresses his big smoke-like self into the shape of a tiny little spider that goes around paralyzing bimbos in an ironic fashion. Smokey is brute-force, and he really doesn't have the finesse to do anything that elaborate/silly. 73rd survivor 12:45, 4 June 2008 (PDT)
  • It was there even before I started making the tables for Smokey's vics. I didn't beleive that she was really it's victim, but after checking the podcasts I just asumed that it was true. Maybe we should just point out that Nikki death was indirectly the Monster's fault.--Orhan94 09:41, 9 June 2008 (PDT)

Nikki as a victim of the monster should definetly be deleted: this clearly is a theory and not a fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spoutnik 44 (talkcontribs) .

I think the only thing that can be said for certain is that during the spider scene, we hear monster noises. When I watched it, my impression was that the monster was lurking somewhere in the distance and the only purpose for the intentions of plot were that it seemed to distract the characters and put them off guard (and heighten suspense and surprise for the viewer). The podcast does indicate a link between the monster and the spiders but I'm thinking they either just meant the sound was there, or they were making a joke, or they meant monster in the more generic sense. In any case, even in the extreme case that every spider was a manifestation of the smoke monster, that still doesn't make her a smoke monster victim as she was merely paralyzed and not directly killed by the monster. Her cause of death was the same as Paulo's - buried alive. --Jackdavinci 05:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I've always thought it strange that Nikki was the only "victim" to die as a direct result of the Monster breaking itself into more than one creature. Poor Doc Artz had a Medusa in a bottle, so the spiders were real enough on the Island. The true cause of Nikki's death was greed. I think Damon and Carlton sometimes come up with answers designed to make us go away for a while.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:59, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Agreed with the above. See my comments under Expose. --Beema 17:10, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Pilot

Read all the discussion and archives - didn't find talk of the monster's appearance in the Pilot as the engine exploded on the beach. I know it's featured in a YouTube "lost secrets" compilation that may or may not be reliable, but in watching the actual episodes, I've seen the smoke monster zoom in and dive right as the plane's engine explodes - and possibly another one pushing the man (who I hear is the author of Bad Twin) into the engine. I'm thinkin the Monster was used to guide the plane onto the beach. Correct me if I'm just seeing things - I don't have the DVD's to look at, just ABC's site Prefect42 20:40, 10 June 2008 (PDT)

See Turbine explosion (debunked theory). --   Connor401    talk    contribs    email   07:25, 11 June 2008 (PDT)

Rose says the sounds the monster makes sound "really familiar." Then someone asks where she is from and she replies, "The Bronx." Some people keep saying that Rose says it sounds like something from the Bronx, but she says no such thing. Maybe this connection can be or is meant to be inferred from the answer she gives when someone asks where she is from, but she NEVER explicitly says it is a sound that she might hear in New York City. --Jpgwriter 23:30, 14 August 2008 (PDT)

  • Hasn't it been divulged that one of the sound effects used for the Monster is a recording of the receipt printer in an NY taxi cab? I always assumed Rose's comment was kind of an inside joke because of this. --Beema 17:09, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Delete confirmed?

Shouldn't the confirmed sightings of the Monster be moved or deleted from the Theory page? They're not exactly theories anymore.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 19:52, 12 July 2008 (PDT)

Yes, they should, but that theory page, like most others, is in need of serious clean-up. It's an unending task to keep the theory pages current. Dharmacakra Kevrock   talk  contribs   08:09, 14 July 2008 (PDT)

The Tempest

If we are relating Lost to the Tempest, are we saying that Prospero is Jacob, Miranda is Alex and Caliban is the Monster? Of course, Alex is dead; well, maybe....--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:47, 15 July 2008 (PDT)

Yeah, I was the one who added all the Forbidden Planet/Tempest stuff. Yes, you could make those connections. I always thought that would be a good candidate for a fleshed-out book/movie analysis article. Dharmacakra Kevrock   talk  contribs   15:47, 15 July 2008 (PDT)

Only one Monster?

I removed the definitive statement "There is only one Monster." from the article. While the producers have confirmed the Monster isn't a cloud of nanobots, I do not believe they have ever confirmed anything regarding how many Monster(s) there may be. Attempting to even number or identify the Monster, or any of its instances or incarnations, may prove to be impossible, if and when we ever get a final answer as to what exactly the Monster it is. It may even prove to be something intangible, like a force of nature, that can't be counted by any traditional method. Dharmacakra Kevrock   talk  contribs   12:20, 13 August 2008 (PDT)

Noted. I did that because there WAS a statement in Theories that TPTB had debunked a multi-monster theory. Personally, I like the one monster idea, but the statement in theories is now gone.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 07:57, 14 August 2008 (PDT)

I believe the monster can split into smaller individual parts and come back together to make a bigger whole, so there is one big monster but many small monsters make it up!!

The monster moves

I think it would be a good idea if we could post the segment of the Monster closing to contact from "The Shape of Things to Come". I don't think I have the software. The segment reminded me of two things:

  • A freight train
  • A sandworm from Dune - not in texture or substance - in the rounded head when the mouth is closed, in the pointed tail and in its menacing nature.

--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:36, 28 August 2008 (PDT)

I imagine it simply must have been described as a train in the script, for the CG guys to have put it together like that. I further imagine that Ben's description of the Monster as "not a train" in "Dead Is Dead" was a bit of an in-joke.  Robert K S   tell me  08:27, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Rename: The Monster

In this show, "The Monster" is called "The Smoke Monster", so why is it called "The Monster" on Lostpedia? I think you should rename it to "The Smoke Monster"--Pirakafreak24 DCWIKI 23:31, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Disagree: Well it is sometimes called the smoke monster, and it's also called "smokey" and "Cerberus". It is most frequently referred to as "The Monster" (although it's official name is Cerberus). -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 00:30, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Disagree: At some point, it may be appropriate to rename it to Cerberus, but not yet.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 01:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes I agree. I would even vote to rename it to Cerberus now, but it isn't as familiar with fans. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 02:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
I can see renaming to Cerberus if we get a few more people to sign up. Familiarity is not a serious problem. "The Monster" will automatically become a redirect.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Disagree Looking over the entirety of the series, as well as cast and crew comments and the fan community, "the monster" is the most used term. --Blueeagleislander 03:30, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Robot Chicken??

The Pissed Off Giraffe inside joke conjures up one specific image in my head. There's a Robot Chicken bit about a Giraffe in quicksand going through the stages denial, anger, depression, and acceptance. Is it possible that THIS is the inside joke? The part where the Giraffe is going through the anger stage is the funniest part of the bit and he yells "stupid jungle" twice. I believe I've heard that line on LOST as well.--Haven13 17:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Not in any season? - Cleanup Needed

  • Why does the info box say the smokey was in none of the show's five seasons? What's up with that? --Nintendo_Warrior 02:08, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
    • That line comes from some other templates buried in the project. It has to do with the Monster having a line entry in some table, I think. It's a question for one of the administrators.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:03, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
      • I don't think that's worth nominating it for clean-up. Let an administrator take care of the infobox, but the article doesn't need rewriting. Also, if it did, the cleanup template would go in the article, not the talk page.-- Roobydo  talk  contribs  23:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

The story of Hannibal and Melqart

Look what I found in Wikipedia. It's a legend on Hannibal and his god Melqart. This is a copy of what I found:

Just before setting off on his march to Italy Hannibal made a pilgrimage to Gades, the most ancient seat of Phoenician worship in the west. Hannibal strengthened himself spiritually by prayer and sacrifice at the Altar of Melqart. He returned to New Carthage with his mind focused on the god and on the eve of departure to Italy he saw a strange vision which he believed was sent by Melqart.

A youth of divine beauty appeared to Hannibal in the night. The youth told Hannibal he had been sent by supreme deity, Melqart, to guide the son of Hamilcar to Italy. “Follow me,” said the ghostly visitor, “and see that that thou look not behind thee.” Hannibal followed the instructions of the visitor. His curiosity, however, overcame him, and as he turned his head, Hannibal saw a serpent crashing through forest and thicket causing destruction everywhere. It moved as a black tempest with claps of thunder and flashes of lightning gathered behind the serpent. When Hannibal asked the meaning of the vision Melqart replied, “What thou beholdest is the desolation of Italy. Follow thy star and inquire no farther into the dark counsels of heaven.”

A black tempest? With flashes of lightnings? Sound familiar... what do you think?

"Episode Count"

I'm not sure exactly how the appearance thing works on the infobox, but the Monster did appear in the Missing Pieces. While we didn't see it, we heard it in "Arzt & Crafts".

Remove Desmond

Desmond heard the Monster in The Cost Of Living. He has never seen it, but it the monster. That's why Desmond has to be removed.--Station7 17:39, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

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