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Here's hoping it's not a Jack centric episode. The season finale for seasons 1, 3, and 4 have been his. Maybe this episode can focus on someone else, like season 2 did with Desmond. Marko14126 18:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm with Marko. --Managerpants 17:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I would hope that we get some flashes, so that there will actually be a central character. With this season, you just never know.--Steeletalkcontribs 11:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Whether it's Hurley centric or not, I don't really care. But, I would like to learn why Hurley got on Ajira 316 & what's in the guitar case. Is it really a guitar? Just a way to reinact Charlie on the flight? Hurley was willing to go to prison to stay away from Ben. He's the only O6 backstory (as far as why they got on Ajira 316) that we haven't seen.
NEVERGIVEUP Contribs Talk 20:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's safe to establish that this was a Jacob centric episode... who would have ever guessed?!? DesmondFaraday 03:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
No, we can't say Jacob; he wasn't in Juliet's flashback. I would vote for, "various." -- LightSpectra 03:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
He was the constant in all but one flashback, as well as getting one of his own at the very start of the episode. Even if they weren't from his POV - Cabin Fever opens with Locke's mother, but we still consider it a fully Locke episode. I don't know, but I lean toward Jacob-centric. KingK.Rool 03:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I vote Jacob. Yes, Juliet had a flashback without him, but there have been other times when other characters have had one flashback sequence (Libby in "Dave," Karl in "Greatest Hits"). Jacob was clearly the most important character in the episode. --COMPOSSIBLE Talk Contribs 03:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I vote for 'Jacob' as well. They basically replayed past events (like Locke falling out of the window) but added Jacob in it. He was the constant in nearly all the flashbacks. dposse 03:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Its hard to say with centricity.. I mean that one Juliet flashback didnt have Jacob at all but all things considered sicne he is in all the other flashbacks i too would have to say it is Jacob centric. Insane finale btw :/ InflatableBombshelter 03:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Either Jacob or Various ... I was kind of thinking everyone else was having flashbacks featuring Jacob, not the other way around, but I'm not opposed to Jacob-centric. --LeoChris 03:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
If last episode was Richard's, then this one should be Jacob's. --Uncertainty 03:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's everyone who had a flashback (Kate/Sawyer/Sayid/Ilana/Locke/Sun/Jin/Jack/Juliet/Hurley), not Jacob. Yes, he was a link between most of them, but they were all from these character's viewpoints. Does that mean whenever Jin and Shannon were in each other's flashbacks it was their centric? No. Hell, we didn't even see Jacob except for the beginning and end in real time, in which he died. Plus, I like giving Ilana a centric episode for this. Ok, at the very least, it should be Jacob centric AND all of these characters. Agree? Alexisfan07 13 May 2009
We can count the first one as Jacob centric and then count ALL of the other ones individually! I've got the compromise :) Alexisfan07 13 May 2009
It could be Jacob centric, but we have no information that who we saw interact with the losties was Jacob. He only looked like Jacob. We see that Jacob's enemy can look like John Locke. Why would Jacob want to bring on the events that lead to his own death?--IslandHopper 04:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
For the same reason Christ still entered into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday; Jacob has allowed his enemy this apparent victory in order to accomplish the destiny of all the other characters and bring about an even greater good.
We don't know that Jacob was trying to bring his own death. Jack and John have been at odds -- maybe the Incident, or whatever surrounds it, will help Jacob. Luminifer 04:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I think it's Jacob centric: we learn something about Jacob in the episode - even though there are all sorts of scenes, it really is about Jacob - it explains what he did to affect the other characters, how long he's been on the island - all sorts of things about him. In the every flashback (except Juliets - which may indicate something) we are shown something about Jacob. The opening scene also shows Jacob. While there's a lot going on, if we go by the literal definition of 'centric', and ignore manufactured technicalities like 'who is in one scene', the episode is definitely centered around Jacob. Luminifer 04:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC) (someone deleted this before!)
I agree, and keep it listed as Jacob in the main navigation bar, but I think it should read Jacob-centric and have all the flashbacks on the characters' pages. Alexisfan07 14 May 2009
Various. The only flashback that was definitively Jacob's was the very first one. In most of the others, he didn't even enter the picture until halfway through - I highly doubt that he was the one remembering Jack botching his operation, he wasn't even there. --Pyramidhead 07:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Various. Come on guys! they are individual flahbacks! only the first one was jacob. --Frw22 08:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacob Various people had flashacks, yes. But throughout Season 5, we are dealing with the centric concept. And Jacob was clearly the centric figure in all flashbacks but one (Juliet's). QuiGonJinnBe mindful of the Living Force... 08:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The only reason we ever used "centric" instead of "flashback" was in episodes where there were no flashbacks. That is not the case here. And either way, this is a Jacob-centric episode, so what's the problem? --Pyramidhead 09:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
You people are crazy. This is Jacob 100%. I think I'll be staying out of these talk pages next year, because I hate coming here and seeing that people didn't see the obvious. Marc604 10:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacob - that was obviously his episode. MauserContact 11:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacob - He may not have had all of the flashbacks, but the episode clearly centered on him. --Bish-Fiscuit 12:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Characters
From looking at the press release, there's a lot of interesting characters...I can't wait to see. This will be a good finale!--Mistertrouble189 19:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
You're right, what's the policy on talking about press releases? because I really am interested in discussing these characters....--AaronianKenrod 11:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it truely against the spoiler policy, considering the press release is on the main page for this episode anyway? And for me it's a week, I'm in the UK and my girlfriend makes me wait 'til our airdate :(--AaronianKenrod 13:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Rename
Shouldn't this page be renamed to "The Incident"? "Through the Looking Glass" is the same thing this episode is, and it doesn't have "Parts 1 & 2" on the title. -- Lucas Benicá | Talk | Email | 22:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The ABC press release lists it as such, and that is what we go by. Similarly, "There's No Place Like Home, Part 2" has "Parts 2 & 3" on the end, while "Exodus, Part 2" is just called "Part 2". I guess it's all to do with them counting each part as a single episode. They seem to have changed their episode naming system in recent finales.--Baker1000 23:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, actually, the press release lists it only with quotation marks around "The Incident". The "Parts 1 & 2" comes after the quotation marks, so it could be considered a descriptor outside of the title. Also, to note, the ABC website lists it only as "The Incident". -- Graft talk contributions 00:35, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree. It should be called "The Incident". dposse 03:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
It doesnt really matter what you guys think it IS The Incident Parts 1 & 2 even at the begining the credits for writing the episode are listed seperatley as part 1 and part 2 -- B1G CZYGS Talk Contribs 03:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I disagree totally. It's not 2 & 3, it's "The Incident, Part 1 and 2." Why the Jacob would it be parts 2 & 3?? Marc604 10:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Orange Juice
Sawyer mentions that it's time to drink their orange juice and start living in the real world. This mirrors the first flashforward of "Through the Looking Glass," where we first see Jack pouring himself a glass of orange juice when off the island. (Noting this now for article update later). Darmikau 01:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Check out the article Food. It lists some suspicious appearances of orange juice. --Cornprone 02:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The "time to drink their orange juice" is a reference to how Juliet came to the Island. Remember, she was given a choice: drink drugged orange juice or stay behind in the real world. dposse 03:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Exactly -- the oj has the sedative in it. He's just saying that he's going to go to sleep, wake up, and all that will be behind him. Though when Sawyer said that, I had a sudden flash to "drink the Kool-Aid"...--Litany42 12:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacob's Nemesis
Was the name of Jacob's nemesis listed in the credits or anywhere else? If not, my guess is that his name will be revealed as Esau in the final season (I'm not claiming their the actual sons of Issac, only that their names are allusions to the Biblical twins). -DesmondFaraday 03:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I just checked out the list of guest stars, and the character is played by an actor named Titus Welliver, who is listed as Man #2. As the theories page is not yet unlocked, I'm going to speculate here that his name is Esau and he has taken John Locke's appearance as part of his malevolent plot to destroy Jacob. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DesmondFaraday (talk • contribs) 2009-05-13T22:25:19.
No, it's definitely that ^ --Redheadguy719 03:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
It's definitely not Anubis. The statue had the head of a Croc/Alligator, not a Jackal. dposse 03:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Fair enough, but it's holding the same symbol thingy....idk i just heard of anubis a few episodes back, i'm not an expert or anything --Redheadguy719 03:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
At a discussion over here, a few people mentioned Sobek, which looks like the match. - Amiasha 03:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I highly doubt it's Sobek, as Sobek doesn't have the ears. Tawaret does. There's an image out there pointing out exactly how the features line up with Tawaret's. Also Tawaret ties in with fertility, and with having an evil force as a companion and keeping that force at bay. Also, Michael Emerson said recently that it was Tawaret and that Tawaret's mate was key to understanding the finale. The only evidence for Sobek seems to be the shape of its head, which, since it was seen from an angle, could quite easily be a hippopotamus as a crocodile, especially given the ears. Michael Lucero*Talk*Contributions
It only looks Egyptian. We have no idea if it actually is. It's speculation to say that it is Sobek until that name, or a direct reference to, is mentioned in the show. -- LightSpectra 05:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. I removed the names from the statue page, mainly because it's not been shown in full, not named, and we say Darlton said it's male, then name Taweret who is female. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 06:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when we saw the statue in Live Together, Die Alone, we saw it's LEFT foot, right? And then in this episode, we saw the statue close up, and it was the RIGHT foot, right?--Gibbeynator 11:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The Tempest
I'm not particularly versed in Shakespearean Literature, but can someone who is comment on whether or not the opening scene revealing Jacob was in any way an allusion to "The Tempest?" -DesmondFaraday 03:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In The Tempest you have Ariel (light and airy) and Caliban (dark and brooding) as the spirits that inhabit the island. Definitely see a parallel between the white and black garb of Jacob and the Dude. --Huckabees 03:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Have we seen Jacob before?
In the recap before the show, they were saying something like if we've met Jacob before, we don't know about it yet. I don't remember him from previous episodes, does anyone else?
I want to say that the big bright light seen by Locke in Season 1 was Jacob. I'm getting more and more convinced the black smoke is a manifestation of whomever this other gentlemen is. --Huckabees 03:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In Left Behind, the Monster took a "picture" of Kate and Juliet. So when Locke says he saw a "bright light" when he encountered the Monster, it was likely that. It's possible that Jacob "controls" the Monster (since we associate the Monster with Yemi's corpse, and Jacob with Christian's corpse) but to say that they are the same is unsubstantiated. -- LightSpectra 05:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Time of the opening scene?
It seems people think that the opening scene took place in 1845, and that the boat on the horizon is the Black Rock. Do we know for certain what time and which boat that was? Perhaps I missed something, but I don't think any clues were given. Should we rename to 'Some time in the past' or something equally undetermined?--Uncertainty 03:57, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Considering that the Oceanic 6 somehow landed in 1977, and considering that Jacob doesn't appear to age, and given the Egyptian statue mixed with Greek letters and hieroglyphics, we cannot assume that the Black Rock landed in 1845. Lovelac7 04:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I think that the boat is more than likely the Black Rock. Leaving the date as 1845 won't kill anybody. --Halcohol 05:25, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Why 1845 though? Even if it is the Black Rock (and I believe it is), why not put down 1840s or something? Do we know for fact that this scene happened moments before the crash? No. For all we know the boat crashed in like January 45 and the talk happened in Dec 44. - TheAma1 08:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Jacob's visits
I found it interesting that in all the characters that Jacob visited, except for Sayid, he gave them something (lunchbox, pen, candy bar, revival, blessings, guitar) and for Sayid he took something (Nadia). Does anyone else find this significant? --Gorbeh 04:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I'd argue that Jacob didn't take Nadia, but rather prevented Sayid from being hit by the car as well.--Jobberforlife 04:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
yah, i thought he prevented somthing as well.Omggivemaafningusername 04:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The book Jacob is reading during Locke's fall is Flannery O'Connor's Everything That Rises Must Converge'Italic textWhich is a quote from Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Teilhard conceived the idea of the Omega Point [1].--Penelopoop 06:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In EVERY visit, Jacob intentionally makes physical contact with the person who he wants to bring to the Island! They actually zoom in on his hand touching the person almost every time. Also, he doesn't make physical contact with anyone other than the people he brings. Thoughts?--Mrmagic522 06:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Right. He's not giving them each anything; he is saving each of them in some fashion. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 06:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure that giving Jack a candy bar saved him in any fashion. Jack's flashback was intentionally different from the others'... Jacob's presence in this flashback was extremely brief. The only thing Jacob did was hand him the candy bar and briefly touch Jack's fingers, which shows that the physical contact is the important thing to take from each flashback. --Mrmagic522 06:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Black/white
Does anyone think there was any significance to the show ending with a black on white LOST logo as opposed to the white on black one we've normally seen at the end of all the shows? Will it all be 'good' from now on?--Galaxie.cr 04:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
No significance at all, just more aesthetic then a the white on black Omggivemaafningusername 04:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
You're kidding, right? Of course there was significant. This episode was all about Jacob (white) vs. some antagonist (black). Two equal but opposite forces. This has been a theme since the beginning of the show. Of course something so obvious as switching black and white has significance. Michael Lucero*Talk*Contributions
You both got it wrong. What happened right before the inverted color logo? Juliet (most likely) detonated the bomb, thus making an Alternate reality where 815 doesn't crash, Desmond never lands on the island, Ben; Widmore; Elle; Alpert all die thus leaving the whole series to an alternate path to the whole series of the show, thus inverted logo. --LOST-Frink 07:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The Real Jacob
It looks like this episode was made with the express purpose of making an administration nightmare for lostpedia that might take until the next season to work out:
Is Christian really speaking for Jacob? Does this character now deserve his own page?
Is that cabin really Jacob's?
Was that Jacob we saw in the cabin with the beard, or someone else? Does he get a page now?
What actions of Locke's (as i Terry O'Quinn) really were performed by Locke, and how do we organize his page?
To answer your last question, Locke was always dead. He never came back to life. The person we assumed was John Locke was actually Jacob's enemy, the man we saw in the beginning who wanted to kill Jacob for some unknown reason. So, everything we assumed that John Locke did after his death must be transferred/copied to the Jacob's enemy article. dposse 04:58, 14 May for2009 (UTC)
obviously for clarity, a note should be added to Locke's page right after his "revival" post-316 linking to the imposter's page. Flashesb4ur8s 05:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Did Jughead Really Go Boom?
Ya know, I hate it when people get sticky about this and that. But I'm not convinced that the bomb actually went off. It seems pretty likely, but let's not forget that this is a season cliffhanger. It seems clear to me that this is supposed to be a "did it go off or didn't it?" type of question. If that is the case, I don't think we can definitively say that it did explode. --Litany42 05:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
the casing was broken, so it was only a conventional bomb that went off, but there was also the nuclear material that blew up. Omggivemaafningusername 05:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I understand where you're coming from. You're thinking that maybe the white flash was, say, the electromagnetic energy detonating or something like that? While it's a good theory, I think the entire purpose of us seeing Juliet at the bottom of the shaft was so that we could see her make the heroic sacrifice of setting off a nuclear explosion. The season ended at the bomb's flashpoint, hence the white title card. --Halcohol 05:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
There are two ways to look at Juilet setting off the nuke. The first (obvious) way to take it is the noble sacrifice to complete the plan that might just undo everything over the last 3 years. The second requires a bit more perspective of being that injured, being dragged 70 meters into the bottom of (effectively) a well, without a doubt breaking numerous bones, bleeding from every available orifice, in a tremendous amount of pain. All that being said, this all sounds much better if you work with the assumption that the white flash was the incident, and that the incident was the nuke going off: That the incident was the act of a desperate woman at the bottom of a well, who was looking to end the suffering. Discuss? Ahrotahntee 08:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
@Halcohol - All I'm saying is that usually on these pages we require absolute proof before we state explicitly that this happened. As I see it, there are three possible explanations for the flash: it's the bomb going off, it's the energy being released (both of which can be explained as "the incident") or it is a huge mindf*ck for the cliffhanger (which would be necessary if the storyline suddenly goes that the incident is avoided, and therefore destiny can be changed). Personally, I believe it is the bomb going off too. This could explain why the Others can't have children on the island (nuclear fallout). But until it is known for sure, perhaps it is not good to assume...--Litany42 12:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The main page keeps referring to the bomb in Jack's backpack as a hydrogen bomb. But if I remember correctly, Sayid said it was an atomic bomb, as atomic bombs are the sub-parts of a hydrogen bomb, when detonated together cause the fusion reaction. So, should those references on the main page be changed? TMC27 06:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
It was a hydrogen bomb. Sayid only referred to it as a nuclear bomb/device -- Plkrtn talk contribs email 08:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
A hydrogen bomb is a fusion reaction triggered by a fission reaction. The bomb Jack was carrying was the fission detonator and was an atomic bomb, but not a hydrogen bomb.
If it looks like a duck and swims like a duck...
Okay, I think most people would agree that the ship coming to the island at the beginning is the Black Rock. I understand that the episode description can't say that explicitly, but I think it is worth mentioning it looks similar to the Black Rock, especially given that it falls into the same time period. --Litany42 05:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I beleave its the black rock, but the time periods dont help your cause, because it looked like they where in ancient Egypt.Omggivemaafningusername 05:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The Black Rock didn't exist in 1845, when that scene takes place. Lancelot1 05:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
It looks identical to the Black Rock, and there's only one ship from that era in the forefront of Lost mythology. Seems pretty straightforward to me. They were clearly on the island, given the statue. And according to a previous episode (see Black Rock article) the ship disappeared in 1845. --Jackdavinci 07:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Should Locke's article be altered?
Being that the entity that has Locke's memories but is some sort of mystical clone of "Locke Prime", should everything after Locke's death to Ben be moved to another article; perhaps Jacob's enemy? -- LightSpectra 05:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
How does Richard know the answer to "What lies in the shadow of the statue"?
Why didn't Richard try to stop "John Locke" (Jacob's enemy) from killing Jacob?
How did Jacob revive John Locke?
Richard knew the answer because he's the Island's keeper. Richard didn't try to stop Jacob's enemy because he thought it was actually John Locke (though he probably suspected something was amiss, given his confusion over how John was resurrected). Jacob never revived John Locke, Jacob's enemy 'cloned' John's body and 'possessed' it. Lancelot1 05:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Carlson family book
During the Juliet flashback, the book on the coffee table was titled something like "Mysteries Of The Ancient Americas". Anyone catch that? --SparqManTalk 05:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
UQ
Was is Jacob or the entity that can take on others' appearance? - this question makes no sense. Spiral77 06:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
What is Jacob trying to prove his enemy wrong about?--Mrmagic522 06:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The Guitar
Is the guitar that Jacob gives to Hurley Charlie's guitar from the Island? Maybe something of Charlie's had to be on the plane to best simulate the conditions of O815... Much like Christian's shoes. But even so, did Hurley bring this on the plane? If this isn't the case, then what was the point of the guitar?--Mrmagic522 06:25, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was pretty clear: Jacob brought Charlie's guitar from the island to Hurley to show him he was actually from the island. Willo talk contribs email 06:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Did Chang lose his arm?
It looked like Miles saved him before his arm could be ripped off and all he got was a punctured hand. Kajillion 07:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes he did. This is the point where he loses it. Doesn't matter how it looked, the intention of the scene was to show you where he lost it. -- Plkrtn talk contribs email 08:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Do we have a screen cap of it? I only remember his hand being crushed as well. Perhaps Miles changed the future by saving his father? But I can see this going either way. --Uncertainty 12:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
That looks badly crushed, but not severed. Maybe he has to get it amputated when he gets back to Dharmaville. --Gibbeynator 13:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Who said his right arm in the Swan video was prosthethic anyway? Maybe his own arm was srushed so badly he couldn't use i anymore? MauserContact 13:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Patsy Cline song in Kate's flashback
Anyone know which song this was by any chance? It didn't sound like any of the Patsy Cline songs from previous seasons (at least not that I could tell). Fantastic finale, by the way! Just had to comment on that! :) Dman176 11:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Ilana's language
Does anyone know what language is spoken when Ilana is hurt and in hospital?--Salvora 12:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
The Nurse, Ilana and Jacob are all apeaking Russian in that scene. MauserContact 12:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Red Herring?
Is that what Jacob is eating? And if so..what is the OTHER use of that term?
I noticed that but removed it from the summary. Because that was a joke, right? I'm no fish expert, but I don't think that was actually a herring. --Cornprone 13:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
So...
Anyone else getting a serious Beast Wars vibe from the ending? In the season 2 finale, Megatron managed to blow Optimus Prime's head off, and that created a time storm that threatened to rewrite history and left the heroes in character limbo until next season.--Gibbeynator 13:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
