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Here We Go

Ladies and gentlemen, the end of our beloved show has come. First order of business: We should use a bit different wording than "121.5" to represent the fact that the episode is 2.5 hours long. ShadowUltra 03:03, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

And I have to work that Sunday evening.--Pittsburghmuggle 06:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
I agree, it's a little awkward to refer to it as "121.5". Plus, the DVD apparently will have an additional 20 minutes of deleted footage added back in. So that is around three blocks of 40 minute episodes on the DVD version. We may as well refer to it as hour #122. And just to say, why is the season nav stating this as just "#17"? We decided to split all the other finales and double episodes up on the nav at the start of this season, even episodes like "Live Together, Die Alone" which were titled as just LTDA by ABC, with no "part 1" or "part 2" added to the end. We have constantly been told that this season will contain 18 "episodes" (hours = episodes) and now we refer to it as just episode 17? I'm not sure how ABC had named the episode yet, but shouldn't we try to be consistent here?--Baker1000 19:37, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
I think the 20 extra minutes makes it clear they filmed three episodes worth of content, so for simplicity's sake let's count it as three. And I'm assuming the extra 20 minutes will be canon, since they'll be worked back into the finale instead of set aside as "deleted scenes". --Golden Monkey 19:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Reply They filmed two episodes worth of content. They couldn't cut it down to two episodes worth of airtime (~85 minutes) so they asked ABC for an extension. cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 00:30, May 20, 2010 (UTC)
I think its clear they filmed three episodes worth of content, early on they were able to get an extra hour from ABC (S6 was originally to have 17 not 18 hours) then they probably asked for one more hour but it was too late or ABC couldnt fit it in, w/e. If on the dvd the extra 20 minutes is worked into the episode and not on a bonus disc then it should be three seperate parts. I think its meant to be cannon just due to ABC restrictions it couldnt air as one. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  05:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Do we know for certain that the 23 minutes of Deleted scenes announced for the DVD are not the same 23 minutes that were added to the finale?MKLNK 15:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think that theres a chance we'll see some more characters in it that got cut, so how would be work on that. Say Libby and Penny who had no lines in the final, appear in the dvd cut scenes with lines, how would be work around that. Same for Walt. We just dont know. If you add the cut scenes to the final, doesn't that mean theres technically a 19th hour. Buffyfan123

Length

According to ABC, out of this episode's running time the show will have 50 minutes of commercials and 100 minutes of...well, show. The two parts will be 50 minutes each. So that's 20 some extra minutes to each finale. [1] Golden Monkey 03:43, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

In Israel the finale was broadcast without commercial breaks. Episode 17 was 53 minutes and episode 18 was 48 minutes. --Laminar 06:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Press Release linked to on page

Is not the episodic press release with guest cast and short 1-sentence description. It's not posted yet, but when it is the link needs to be changed. cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 00:30, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Day for Night?

The fight scene between Jack and MiB looked like it was filmed Day for Night, where you film in the daylight and then darken the tone to make it look dark (or stormy, in this case). Lots of sun glints off the water on them.--Pittsburghmuggle 03:49, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think that was to reinforce the idea that the island was falling apart, the light was out, etc. It was probably also connected to the fact that it was supposed to be dark, cloudy, rainy, so on. --FiremanV2 04:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Jack Bender said in an interview that scene was filmed at about 5:30 in the morning. Looks appropriate enough to me.--HaloOfTheSun 05:28, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Centricity

I'd go with none. Amazing finale BTW. I'll miss you, Lost. (Kdc2 03:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC))

No Obviously various. If something has flashes from multiple characters with a central one, we always count it as various; none is for episodes without any flashes or central character(s). This is no more non-centric than Exodus or There's No Place Like Home. I'd vote for at least Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Locke, Claire, Ben, Desmond and Miles (he didn't have much focus, but the scene where he spotted Sayid was from his pov). Probably others-Sun & Jin, Sayid, maybe even Charlotte. --Golden Monkey 03:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Various or everyone who "remembered" since the flashes were not organized as usual, Id say we should go with when a character remembers because it shows clear focus. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:55, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
How about..."everyone"? Because in the end no character was the focus of this episode. Not even certain groups of characters were the focus. Everyone was the focus. The story of Lost was the story of all of these characters and all of them deserve the centricity. ShadowUltra 04:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Various.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  05:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
everyone will disagree with me, and i don't think it'll matter but i have to put in my input (lol), Centricity: Jack Bassrockindrew 05:49, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Not only did the episode end with Jack closing his eye, emphasizing his obvious importance, most of the actual plot development in the finale centered around Jack (e.g. Jack was the last to remember and everyone was in the church waiting for his arrival, more or less). --Flyglue 06:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes with Jack. The flashes and "near-centricity" applies to most everyone (Locke, Sawyer, Kate, maybe Desmond), but the episode begins and ends with Jack and reveals that almost the whole series is "Jack-centric." Just like the first episode was centered on Jack, the last episode is, as well.--Tim Thomason 06:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
No I don't think it's Jack centric. I'd go with various, meaning everyone that has a flash-sideways (Kate, Miles, Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Ben, Hurley, Desmond and Claire) and everyone that has a series of flash-backs when they remember their lives (Jin, Sun, Sayid, Shannon, Charlie, Claire, Kate, Locke, Juliet, Sawyer and Jack).  Bringlibbyandcharlieback  Talk   Contribs 08:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
No Wayyyy too many flashes from the POV of people who weren't Jack to be primarily Jack-centric. Though he was the focus of the Island storyline and the last flash-sideways. --Golden Monkey 12:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I mean everyone had some sort of flash and focus even dead people, Its hard to really say who got what. Maybe we should just give everyone who appeared in the final a credit. Buffyfan123 10:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • In my opinion the characters who should get centricity credit are Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet, Hurley, Claire, Charlie, Locke, Jin, Sun, Sayid, Shannon, Desmond, Ben and Miles.  Bringlibbyandcharlieback  Talk   Contribs 14:18, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Various. (JohnQPoster 15:19, May 24, 2010 (UTC))

John Pyper-Ferguson

Who the heck did he play? I remember his name in the credits (mainly because I was trying to remember what he had been in that I'd seen-it was Caprica, by the way) but there weren't really any prominent guest characters in the flash-sideways and none on the Island. So...who was he? --Golden Monkey 04:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

He played the Oceanic Delivery man who delivered Christian's coffin to the church. --User:Sdegelia 11:05, May 23, 2010

Thank you. --Golden Monkey 04:18, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Removed

"The final episode of lost sucked. It turns out that they are all dead. The end." This is, in my opinion, 100% accurate. But it's not supposed to be on a wiki. --Golden Monkey 04:18, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone has to die eventually. Even Ricardus, perhaps. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 04:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
They weren't always dead. Whenever it is they died -- they went to the alt. (Kdc2 04:47, May 24, 2010 (UTC))
Oh, I see... you really sure about that? Because, I'm just like "What the hell happened here?" --FiremanV2 04:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Think about what Christian said. He said everybody died...some in the past, some in the future. For example, Hurley might have lived another 500 years as the new Jacob, but EVENTUALLY he did die. Hence why he told Ben he was a good #2. --RebbySc 05:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
So when we all die we all go to LA? (Good, I've never been there before!) What about baby Aaron? Does this mean he comes back as an infant? Or is this all some weird Jack fantasy?--Pittsburghmuggle 06:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
No, whenever it is we die, we reunite with all the people that we needed to connect with at the most important time in our lives, in a place we collectively create for that purpose. For the survivors that were in the church, that place was the flash-sideways version of LA and the people were the other people in the church. Note that some people were not present (Michael, Walt, David...); for these people the island was not the most important time in their lives, and those people were not the central people in their lives. It might also be argued that some people who might have been there were either not redeemed (e.g., Michael) or not yet ready to move on (e.g., Ben) but that's open to interpretation DrFrylock 06:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
It was pretty clear to me that Christian was the only one who departed directly from the church to the afterlife. Christian's conversation with Jack in the anteroom wasn't about Jack being dead in the flash-sideways, it was about Jack being dead in the Island timeline. Jack and the other Losties arrived at the church pretty promptly after the concert. They're not all going to depart for the afterlife directly from the church; they're going to leave the church and live the rest of their lives (not so long, in poor Rose's case), all enriched by the shared experience. David is hardly going to be abandoned by Jack, Claire and Juliet... Spikebrennan 12:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • No, it turned out that after they all died, they had to examine their time on the island. The events of the show were real and they were very much alive for them. How is the idea that they are in purgatory more unsatisfying than the idea that they were in an alternate universe?TheTaoOfLocke 06:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • The important part is NOT whether they are dead or not (everybody died - in the past and the future). The important part is the time they spent with all the other people and that they remember. This episode and some other episodes earlier where a lot about remembering.--Akege 09:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • WTF ! The creators always said that the characters were not dead were not in purgatory! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Black Jack Scarron (talkcontribs) 2010-05-24T04:48:18.
    • They said the real timeline characters weren't. Flash-sideways, anything goes.--Pittsburghmuggle 11:31, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Of course not. The flash-sideways timeline was Limbo, which is a very different place from Purgatory. ;-) -- Llywrch 21:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The ending was lazy writing. We were promised answers to long standing questions, instead we got sapppy text book happy ending wrapped in a dirty trick. No serious questions were answered. In fact, the promise to end it so follow on projects weren't possible was completely wrong. Personally, I feel so betrayed by the ending that I've changed my mind about buying the complete dvd edition. Xepol 2010-05-24 19:49 (UTC)

Image

6x17TheEnd

1(current)

MovingOn6x17

2


The image for this episode absolutely needs to be the shot of all of them sitting in the church with Christian walking out. I can't think of a better shot to illustrate this episode.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  05:09, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Yes Agreed. The shot of Jack's eye closing is somewhat powerful, and should be included somewhere in the article, but it doesn't, in my opinion, represent the majority of the episode. --LeoChris 05:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • No I like the eye closed, but am open to other ideas. Don't like the church one, though. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 05:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • YesI also like the church with Christian walking out. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
  • Perhaps have the image be of the plane flying overhead? It is the "departure" from the island, one of the final shots, and a fitting farewell image. --SilentSpy 06:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • NoI think the eye closing is perfect. The Pilot opened with Jack opening his eye and The End closed with Jack closing his eye in the same place.--Crazyoldben 06:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • No Jack's eye closing is perfect. We came full circle. :) --Phryrosebdeco23 06:43, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes Don't we set the image up to match centricity? An image like the church would match up nicely, but I agree wholeheartedly that the eye needs to be SOMEWHERE in the article, just not the main image. --Exer 505 07:25, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • YesI think everyone in the church is perfect, as Christian said, everyone in that church was important and they're all just as main as Jack is.  Bringlibbyandcharlieback  Talk   Contribs 08:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Full Circle all right, we came not knowing what has happening and we left the same too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Black Jack Scarron (talkcontribs) 2010-05-24T04:50:44.
  • No The eye is far more defining of the final episode than anything else imo. --Zenero 13:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • NoI think the eye should be added, can we also update the pilot with Jacks eye it would be much better. Buffyfan123 13:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes The eye only shows "The End" for Jack. The church shows "The End" for the main characters in general. While the closed eye is important, I don't think it represents very much of the episode. -- Deltaneos (talk) 14:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes Need a good shot of the church gathering & Christian. The eye can be incorporated elsewhere (as it should) but not as the main image. Hatchbanger 18:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes I put up an image of the church -- but it's low quality, as I'm not that great with editing images. If someone could clean it up that'd be great.(Kdc2 19:27, May 24, 2010 (UTC))

I took your image of the church down, Kdc2. It really shouldn't be changed when there's still a discussion about it going on. Hell, not even 24 hours has passed since the episode aired. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   19:42, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • So should we just keep switching it back and forth as the vote fluctuates, Jimbo? That makes absolutely no sense. It should stay as it was when someone first put up the picture. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   20:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes Jack was the "facilitator," but the episode was about all.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:31, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • No The eye is the first and last thing we ever see in the show (aside from the credits footage of the wreckage). It truly symbolizes "The End" of the show. I just don't feel that a shot that takes place off the island is appropriate.
  • No I don't like the church picture and I don't like the eye. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   20:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes The church makes me less sad, really. I like the idea of the image for the final episode being an up-note with everyone moving on together, reunited after death, rather than the down-note of Jack dying in the woods. --Amedeus8 21:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes The church image is absolutely perfect. The ending wasn't about Jack or even the island -- so where the location the image is portraying has no relevance. It was about these people. And at the end, they were all finally together again. Ready to move on. The church image is the absolute best choice. (Kdc2 21:51, May 24, 2010 (UTC))
  • No with the church image. It's a nice fit, and normally (if this were a regular episode) would probably work. But the main image for Pilot, Part 1 is Jack's open eye, so the one for The End should be his closed eye. Count me as a vote for the closed eye. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 21:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Improvements

I'd like to suggest a few improvements for the remastered 20-year anniversary version: Kill Ricardus - Before getting on the outrigger, it was implied he was mortal again. The question about who, during the time flashes, fired on our Losties from the outrigger was never answered. Somehow, it should have been Miles, Lapidus and Richard. Richard gets shot, dies. Sawyer kill Flocke - I don't like how Flocke went out. It was a grand duel between him and Jack, as it should have been. But then Kate (Who even likes Kate???) shows up out of nowhere and pops him in the back. That's about as lame as throwing a Sith Lord down a space station shaft. I propose Sawyer killing him instead. First, Sawyer has always been an antagonistic buddy of Doc. So, having his back would have been a nice partner move. Second, he needed redemption for killing Sun, Jin and Sayid. That's all I got for now. What would you do differently? -- Clayburn talk contributions email 05:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • It wouldn't make much sense that 3/4 people can row faster than the 7 or so Losties travelling through time. They were catching up to them. I think the outrigger had the best chance of being answered in Everybody Loves Hugo; they needed to get to Hydra Island, so a bunch of them pick up 2 outriggers. They then all go to the Black Rock for dynamite, they return and one of the outriggers are missing. Not happy, Ilana and most of the team give chase and Ilana gets shot by time-travelling Juliet. Answered. Phobia27 05:38, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Kate's not bad, but someone even more inconsequential would have been cool - like the Angel finale "You!? You don't kill me. Angel is the one that kills me. Not inconsequential you!"--Jackdavinci 06:58, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I like Kate. I'm not sure why you have a problem with Kate killing MiB. Why would it have been more fitting for Sawyer to kill him? --SethFlight815 13:31, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
This is content for the forums. Talk about it there. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  06:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Heart of the Island

Did anyone else notice how the water pool where the light is coming from is almost an identical (albeit larger) pool to the one Ben has behind his secret room at his house in Dharmaville? I mean, they both had stone plugs in the middle that had to be removed in order to drain the water. Maybe, since Ben thought it called the Monster, and the Monster came from the source, the reaction of water and energy from the pool(s) "tingled" the Monster in a way that he would know where the feeling came from. I'm not saying both pools worked the same way, but maybe they had a particular correlation. Draining the source made the Monster and Jack vulnerable to mortal death from each other, which is why Desmond had to drain it. He was the only one who could get to the plug without dying in order to drain it. Jack, then, had to replug it, knowing what it did to the protector if it remained unplugged. I know this is a lot, but I think this would be worth noting in a section of trivia, but I just don't know where. --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   05:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sunken Island

So why was the Island sunk in the sideways? A half hour before the end of the episode, I was sure I'd figured it out. I thought the Sideways world was the result of the Island sinking and MIB's plan succeeding, and that "leaving" it meant that they were going to go back and undo what Smokey had done and defeat him. But then they did the Purgatory thing. Which leaves the sunken Island bit a mystery. Any thoughts? Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

  • the way i interpret the sideways, and thats all it is is an interpretation, is that they had to experience what they THOUGHT they wanted in life before they could all let go. jack had a son, hurley was lucky, locke had a good relationship with cooper and helen, sawyer was a good guy, desmond had a good relationship with widmore, kate wasn't guilty, etc. they also thought that they didn't need the island. so in the reality they all made up after they died, they passed right over the island and continued their lives.Bassrockindrew 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • There was no Purgatory thing. In no way did any of the characters suffer for their sins in the flash-sideways. Just as Christian said, they all created it as a place that they could all be together again. Their time on and around the Island was the most important moments of their lives, and they all wanted to live it together. It was a construct for their souls. The Island being sunk in the flash-sideways only meant that they never had to worry about it ever again. Having it at the bottom of the ocean also ensured that, even in their construct, they would never have to go to it again. --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   05:58, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • The island was sunk because it was something that happened to the the castaways, and thus was real in their purgatory, but what they needed to resolve before moving on is what would have happened if they had never crashed. The island is sunken because they needed it to be.TheTaoOfLocke 06:30, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • The island was sunk in the 1970s because a hydrogen bomb detonated on it. We know from the flash-sideways conversation between Ben and his father that the island was above water within Ben's lifetime. Spikebrennan 13:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • The sideways was a place for the main characters to meet before advancing on to the afterlife so that they could be together with those they loved most. The island held the light source which gave life to people and so, in the sideways where everyone is dead, the island is unnecessary. Therefore, it is sunk because in the sideways, it cannot hold the light because that is what they are on their way to.--WeAllDieSometimeKiddo 17:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)WeAllDieSometimeKiddo
  • The island must have been sunk sometime by Hurley and Ben in their roles as #1 and #2 - possibly before they died or as a result of their passing--Loreynolds 19:36, May 24, 2010 (UTC)loreynolds

Was Walt in the church at the end?

In the Times Talk program, Damon said that Walt would appear in the finale, but I didn't see him. Was he somewhere in the church crowd?  Robert K S   tell me  05:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • No, don't think so. I did see Walt in Locke's "flashes" in the FST, it was him throwing a knife at a tree so it is archive footage. That could be their cheeky way of saying he appeared in the episode. Phobia27 06:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Walt was not in the episode at all. Damon lied, but I've only come to expect lies from those 2 at this point. -- Xbenlinusx 07:38, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Maybe he was in a deleted scene? Supposedly, the Blu-ray release includes some deleted scenes that are supposed to "answer more questions" --Flyglue 06:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Are you sure these are deleted scenes and not just commentaries?  Robert K S   tell me  06:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • The DVDs were stated to feature a minimum of 20 mins of new material, devoted to answering questions. (I don't have a source on hand, but I guess you could try to look it up... Sorry about that) --LeoChris 06:13, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • I know that they wanted to end the show on Jack, on his back in the jungle, but I'd love a 3 year flashforward to show what the people who DIDN'T die were doing.--Gibbeynator 12:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • No, but this could be because Walt had no baggage from his time on the island. The purgatory of the characters in Lost is only for those for which the events of Lost were the defining moments of their lives. But yes, I was expecting him to pop up to.TheTaoOfLocke 06:27, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • So the defining moments of Michael's life didn't revolve around the Island? I beg to differ. Not to mention, Mr. Eko...Widmore...Richard...Ana Lucia...Mr. Friendly...there were no 'Others' with the exception of Linus in there, and the case could be made that those people dedicated themselves to the Island for much longer than the Oceanic Flight survivors. -- Xbenlinusx 07:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Michael was a "whisper" on the Island, and wasn't in Purgatory (according to Harold Perrineau). Unlike Ben, he was apparently far from redeemable.--Tim Thomason 07:46, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • Ben slaughters a neighborhood worth of people, including his own father; continuously lied and murdered John Locke... yet Micheal who was desperately wanting to be reunited with his son and get off the stupid island, and shoots one woman, is somehow the "bad guy"? Heck, there wasn't even a Waltcentric episode that would tell what the heck he was doing while he was off the island, or why he was important. I still find Kate to be the most useless of the characters, yet she got pass every time... blehBunai82 13:19, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • The point is that all these people were stepping into the light together because they were friends in life. If there were a bunch of random Others there it wouldn't have made sense. I agree it would have made sense to see Eko, Richard, Ana Lucia, Frank, Miles, Daniel, and Charlotte, as they certainly influenced the other survivors's lives. --SethFlight815 13:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • Although Eko, Richard, Ana and such were important people to the Losties, they were not the most important people in the losties lives and those people had people who were more important to them. Eko for example probably wanted to be with his brother in Africa, Richard probably wanted to be with Isabella in Spain. Things like that so they all live the purgatory they really want.--WhyDidntUKnow 13:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
            • I agree. It isn't the "what" as much as the "who". Christian tells Jack "These were people you needed -- and who needed you." Richard, for example, didn't "need" the losties, and vice-versa -- not on an emotional level. These people had emotional connections with each other, which is why they all moved on together. --Litany42 14:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
              • Doesnt Jacob tell them he brought all the candidates to the island because they were all alone in life? I think that through the events of the series these select people who would have otherwise been alone found each other and they wanted to move on together. Hence why only those specific people were in the church. So although they knew Charlotte and Daniel, those characters would be taking their own journeys to the afterlife. But, what I dont get is why Helen wasnt there, unless she was a construct like David.Gms23 17:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Mr. Eko wasn't there, either. I guess black people just don't go to Lost heaven, apparently. I mean, really, what the heck? Maybe it's more of that "black and white" symbolism they've got going on, but really you'd think somebody would have noticed the implications here and fixed it. --Amedeus8 20:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Reply Rose was there...--LeoChris 21:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC
    • Reply Well, dang. I guess I can't make that joke anymore then, huh? Hm. --Amedeus8 21:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

When did the afterlife officially begin?

  • did it begin for each of the losties when they died individually? or did it start once each of the losties had died? if the afterlife began when the losties died individually, then that wouldn't make sense because Jack would be in it much longer than Kate for example. Or Shannon would be in it for much longer than Jack because she died earlier than he did. Bellac230 06:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)Bellac May 24, 2010
    • Christian said that there is no "now" meaning no time at all. No matter when each character died, they all came to the exact same moment and "time" in the afterlife. It's more of a metaphysical concept than actual timeline issues. You just have to let your mind accept that their "souls" came to the exact same "time" in a fashion similar to how they all would recognize. --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   06:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Exactly, there is no when. Time is irrelevant in the afterlife, according to Christian. All that mattered was that the characters relieved themselves of the events of Lost after they died, whenever that was. We know this because Christian said so, and because Ben and Hurley referenced their time together on the island, which occurred after the show ended.TheTaoOfLocke 06:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • I would also add that this is pretty appropriate and fitting within the themes of Lost: it goes beyond our understanding of time and space, even more so than the time travel in Season 5.--HaloOfTheSun 06:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Shannon (and Christian and Boone and Ana Lucia) died about three years before Jack did. Kate, Sawyer, Frank, the graying Ricardo, Miles, Desmond, and Claire all died somewhere within a few decades after the episode. Hurley and maybe Ben might've died a few *thousand* years after the episode, there's no way of guessing with that duo. So, sometime after Hurley's death, far in the future, they all meet up in this extra-temporal dimension. And for some odd reason, the Desmond of that dimension contacts the "real-world" Desmond of 2007 (2008 according to the latest TV Guide). It's in the future and in the present (and, presumably, they could hang out in the past if powerful enough). I wonder if the Man in Black hung out in a Purgatory with Claudia's people?--Tim Thomason 06:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • So, when Desmond is hit by the electromagnetism, he's really dead for a few seconds. To him it seems like days, but really he's only out a few seconds. In those seconds he is in the afterlife. Jack Dutton 07:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Everyone on the plane didn't die decades later; they died the same day as jack. were they not the remains of the plane as the credits rolled? Thebaldster 07:25, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • No, those were the remains of Oceanic 815. They had the logo all over them. And Christian even said some of them died much later than you (Jack). Bellac230 07:36, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • Exactly, everyone died when the Oceanic 815 crashed. Jack Dutton 07:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
            • There is no evidence of this whatsoever... Listen to what Christian says. Everyone did NOT die at the same time. BrookeP 14:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
              • News Flash. Everyone dies. Point out one person in documented history (religious figures excluded) that has not eventually died. I don't understand why people are trying to read so much into this. Everyone died eventually, as that is the natural thing to eventually do, and the FST was what they experienced after they died.MKLNK 16:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • Which was further implied by Hugo and Ben's comments to each other- 'You were a great #2', etc. The implication being that they worked together on the island for quite some time after Jacks death. SpartHawg948 07:39, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • AND while touching Jack's face to let him remember, Kate said she missed him so much, which suggests she lived for some period of time after Jack's death. Besides, they led independent FST-afterlife lives, they met only when the proper time came, maybe when 1000-year old Hurley died as the last of them and set the events in FST in motion ar whatever.
    • One way to think of it is you had no awareness of time before you were born, correct? In a sense, the time just flew by instantly, right from the beginning of the universe to the moment you were born. The same could be said for the afterlife, you have no awareness of time in the afterlife, so whether you died 2,000 years ago, or you died yesterday, you wouldn't be aware of the time that went by. So, when they all eventually died, they all met up in the afterlife, feeling like all of them only died yesterday. Phobia27 06:28, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm a little confused as to how Christian says that there is no "now" but there is a time and datestamp on Claire's ultrasound back in What Kate Does Azjeans 08:37 May 24, 2010

Christian said they ALL decided to create the "Afterlife"... How could they ALL decide that when they died at different times?

  • Christian said they all created it in order to be together again. Well, how did they all create it when they never talked about it or even thought about it? Bellac230 06:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Time is irrelevant. They all had to experience the same thing together. So, once they had all died in one way or another, everyone "created" the image of what would have happened if they had never crashed on the island. It was never shown how the characters perceived the time between their lives and their afterlives, or if they perceived it at all. All we know is that they did have the shown experience in the afterlife.TheTaoOfLocke 06:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • They didn't all decide to create their afterlife. Rather when they were about to die or sometime right afterwards they were thinking of who they wanted to be with, where they had seen them and how much they wanted to be with those people. From that group desire the afterlife was created. Though some may have resisted (i.e Shannon).Zaggs 12:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Because two thing in common brought them together: the relationships they developed and their deepest desires. Uzerzero 06:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • That doesn't answer the question though. That just explains what the afterlife was (their deepest desires) and how they were able to move on (their relationships with one another). That doesn't answer how Christian knew they all decided to create this afterlife. Bellac230 06:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • In this episode, Christian was a psychopomp, a guide through the afterlife. How does Virgil know the stuff he knows in The Divine Comedy? At this stage, it should be clear that some questions don't have literal answers. —Josiah Rowe 08:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Final Moments

Just as a note... I loved how Jack wasn't alone when he died. I was actually thinking about how horrible it would be to die alone as he trekked through the bamboos, and how ironic it would be that he defied his own catchphrase, or the second half at least... but then came good ol' Vincent, who lay beside him as he passed.

It's also fitting that these were the first two characters we saw in the show - Jack and Vincent - who would be the last two. The S 06:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Having Vincent calmly lying next to Jack as he died was inspired. Hatchbanger 07:06, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I took it as the saying 'Let a sleeping Dog lie' also because Jack has made his peace he was always trying to effect things but now the sleeping dog lies, literally next to him and metaphorically.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gbell64 (talkcontribs) .

It was also an exact reversal of the start of the series in exactly the same order: Jack's eye opens, and he stares at the sky through the bamboo stems. Vincent passes by and he difficulty gets up and starts his journey passing the white tennis of his father.Maokun 15:39, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Bloopers section

One of the bloopers listed is: 'In the first scene of the episode, there is perhaps a crewmember present in the corner when the camera pans around to the staircase. It is unsure if there would usually be someone on the plane during the luggage transfer, but it seemed out of place.' Just wanted to point out that, as someone with a fair bit of experience with the flightline operation of aircraft (7 years experience w/ the USAF), there doesn't seem to be anything wrong there. The purported 'crewmember' actually appears to be a member of either the aircrew or the groundcrew of the airline who is spotting for the driver of the cargo transfer vehicle. It's standard procedure to use spotters any time a ground vehicle will be moving in very close proximity to an aircraft, and that seems to be the case here. SpartHawg948 06:51, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Did anyone notice that when Jack, Flocke and Desmond are at the top of the Entrance to the Light Source, peering down, Flocke calls Desmond by his Real Name "Henry". He says "Alright Henry, We'll lower him down nice and easy". Can someone check I heard correctly Boomerkc

  • I just heard it, he definitely says something, sounds like Henry. Gms23 17:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • THis is incorrect, Flock definatly says "Alright we" not "Henry" sorry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tinnerboy (talkcontribs) .

Reoccurring Themes

This episode was a plethora of them. The first that comes to mind was Jack and the Monster looking down the waterfall in front of the source like Jack and Locke did at the end of season 1, but there are loads of others. In fact, almost everything that happened in the flashback/afterlife parts of the episode were about the reoccurring themes of the show. It might be worth noting that this was the case beyond the extent of a normal reoccurring themes section. There hasn't been another episode where reoccurring themes has been a theme of the episode itself.TheTaoOfLocke 07:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • As a matter of fact, a big percentage of the dialogue was "frequently used phrases". I'd say up to 40% of the dialogue is quouting.Maokun 15:42, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Smokey

In the Jacob/MIB flashback episode, the MIB is thrown down into the Light, and in a matter of seconds, re-emerges as the smoke monster. Jack and Desmond were in the Light region for much longer, and neither one had any mysterious physical changes. UAQ here? I think so. -- Xbenlinusx 07:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • I agree. For a second I thought Jack would come back as the Smoke Monster. How did he get out of the cave anyway? When we see him after the light comes back on he is outside - just like the MIB's dead body after Jacob threw him into the cave and the Smoke Monster spat him out. I can understand why Desmond wasn't reincarnated as the Smoke Monster as he was immune and he wasn't actually in the water when Jack put the stone back into place. But Jack was in the water when the light came back on so he should have come back as the Smoke Monster. --Lost3001 08:49, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • When Desmond turned the key under the Swan Station's pocket of electromagnetism he was magically transported to an outdoor location as well. Maybe Smokey didn't spit out MIB -- maybe his body was transported by the white light too? BrookeP 14:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • But didn't the smoke monster perhaps die when Flocke/MIB was killed before Jack went back to the pool? --Tdstom 14:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Electromagnetism doesn't affect Desmond, and as for Jack - he's officially in Jacob's shoes now - no one said anything about the protector themself not going down there.--Pittsburghmuggle 11:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Jack was no longer in Jacob's shoes at this point. Jack had transferred the responsibility to Hurley. BrookeP 14:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • No, Jack actually says to Hurley, 'Now you're like me' which doesn't suggest that Jack has lost any power whatsoever.--Minty2057 16:23, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • MIB could have tampered with the source causing him to become Smokey while down there. Sure, the transition was quick, but that could be a bit of licence time-wise. shrodes 12:44, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
      • Actually, Mother told Jacob not to go in there, that it would be worse than death. --Litany42 13:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
        • The smoke monster was no more MiB than it was Locke. When MiB fell into the source, the smoke (whatever it is will ultimately be unexplained) was released. It died in the battle with Jack. Smokey predated everything, as evidenced by the hieroglyphics of the smoke monster. We now know that the Egyptian influences predated "Mother," because of the glyphs on the linchpin in the pool. Superfresh 13:19, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • "The smoke monster was no more MiB than it was Locke." It has been explicitly stated by the producers that MiB is in fact the smoke monster. Schammy 17:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
          • I like that answer, but it raises a few other questions. Is it a coincidence that both MiB and Smokey wanted to get off the island? And if Smokey wasn't MiB, why couldn't he/it just kill Jacob? I think Smokey had to be MiB at some level. However, perhaps since MiB going into the cave already unleashed the monster, it was no longer dangerous for others to go down (except for the whole electro-magnetism thing of course). --Litany42 14:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

MIB could become smokey because he was special. BeŻet 12:36, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

            • The answer is yes, and precisely the point they were trying to make this whole season: MiB is presented as ultimately, a poor, bitter wretch that was wronged too many times and whose only ambition was to get away from the Island. However, everyone on Jacob's side was radically opposed to it, talking as thought it would be the end of the world if he ever left the Island. Dogen even called him "evil incarnate" which elicited a surprised chuckle from MiB. (Note he also acted surprised when Sayid told him about his post-resurrection lack of feeling, which was clearly Smokey's doing.) It's obvious that Smokey was using MiB's desire to leave the Island to serve its own purpose of leaving the Island and spreading the "disease" or "darkness" which now I am sure, consists on snuffing out the bit of the "light" that Mother said that is inside everyone. Perhaps since MiB was the one to freed Smokey, Smokey was stuck with his personality and memories in the same way it (they) would later be stuck with Locke's body.Maokun 15:51, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

MIB could become smokey because he was special. BeŻet 12:36, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Guys, I think we have sufficient evidence now to point out that Christian who appeared every other time other than 'to help them find water' was in fact the 'real' Christian who has been leading them around everywhere... Obviously his plans coincided with Smokey's plans because it was the ultimate way of killing him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mitchincredible (talkcontribs) 2010-05-24T07:44:40.
  • As I took it, the 'source' was life. Cheesy I know, but Mother claimed that a little part of it existed in each of us, if it goes out there it does everywhere yadayadayada. Anyway, as mortal humans, evil is part of us, our lives. MiB's malevolance and distain released this evil, which he came to embody. This could only happen once, to someone like MiB: special, but twisted. combining him with the source released this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chrispy212 (talkcontribs) 2010-05-24T08:12:34.
  • MiB didn't became the monster. The smoke monster was already there, inside the cave. MiB falling into the cave made smokey free. The MiB electromagnetically (as Jack) was transported outside de cave. Smoky adopted the form of MiB (a dead man) as he adopted the form of Lock (a dead man). Smokey tooks portions of dead people awareness, experiencies, remembers... so he is a mix between original dead body and smokey. Smokey doesn't want to leave the island... he doesn't want anything, it's only a smoke monster representing evilness of people. MiB wants to leave the island. MiB it's not the monster... the monster is an entity with MiB awareness stuck in Lock's body. I think the monster didn't died, MiB consciousness died. Smoky is now inside the cave, Hurley must protect the light (and the monster).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stabilini (talkcontribs) .

Why didn't Ben go into the Church at the end?

My wife and I were discussing this, and we think it's got something to do with the fact that Alex is alive and well in the afterlife. Since this afterlife is essentially what the characters create for themselves, instead of going to heaven he would rather stay behind and watch Alex grow up and live her life since he regrets not being able to do that in his own lifetime. BradMJustice 07:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • This was nearly my exact take, too. Not necessarily that he wanted to stay behind and watch her grow up and live her life, but he probably wanted to stick around until she was ready to come with him. There's no indication that she became one of the whispers (like Michael), so it's likely that he was just sticking around long enough for her to remember her real life and forgive Ben for what he did so they could go together. Jdinger 08:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • In my humble opinion, i think Ben didn't entered the church as he has now taken over as protector of the Island, Hurley handed that role over to Ben (as Jack did to Hurley), so as it stands Ben is not dead and has decided to stay on the island Jutty 09:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)Jutty 10:33, May 24, 2010 (BST)
    • I disagree. Christian said "everyone dies" - so anyone in this afterlife is going to have already died. Hurley and Ben also have that exchange "you were a great #1" .. etcDogandpanda 14:55, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • I like this theory.--Pittsburghmuggle 11:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Ben is not the protector of the island. Look at it logically: Jacob was the protector, and had a helper (can't remember the specific name that represents the helper), and that helper was Richard. Jack never appointed a helper, but he passed his role on to Hurley. Hurley had no idea what to do, and asked Ben to help him for a while, as he has experience. So we can view this as Hurley is now the islands protector whilst Ben is Hurley's helper. Relating back to the question, I agree with the first and second opinion. I think he just wants to stay with Alex because of what happened on the island. --KeNJii 11:10, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't think it's as sweet as that for Ben. He seems very sad, almost ashamed when he stays behind, not happy to be seeing his daughter. While I would like good things for Ben (I love his character), I think he has a LOT of atoning to do, and realizes that he's just not ready to move on yet. Maybe part of that atonement does have to do with Alex and her mom in the afterlife, but it's not a Hooray! feeling for him, because he knows he could be at peace and move on with the others if he were truly ready and not been so wretched at times throughout his life.Czeunges 12:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)czeunges
  • All the characters (except for Sayid, I can't work him in...) seemed to redeem their lives in the flashsideways and 'move on' from whatever plagued them before the crash. Ben did as well with giving up a shot at power (the principal's job) for the sake of Alex, but perhaps his sins went a lot deeper and he didn't think himself ready. The staying for Alex (a sort of 'knowing' what the sideways is, but staying anyway, like Eloise) is possible, but I agree he looked sad at the end, so I don't think this is the case shrodes 12:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Addendum: I suppose Sayid moved on from Nadia in the flash-sideways... shrodes 12:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Ben has just learned that he spent years on the island doing despicable things to a lot of people-- in particular, to the people in the church. Although Locke has forgiven him, Ben has to come to terms with this before he faces the other Losties. It's not a question of not wanting to abandon Alex-- the other Losties aren't departing for the afterlife directly from the church (it's hardly as if Jack, Claire and Juliet are going to abandon David, or as if Jin and Sun are going to depart before Ji Yeon is born). Spikebrennan 13:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree. I thought it was pretty clear that Ben was experiencing intense guilt for his actions on the Island (he looked sad AND rather spaced out, as if he was having trouble comprehending the things he had done while alive after suddenly remembering them all). He was responsible for so much pain and suffering that he wasn't ready to move on, especially with the people in the church - people who he made life very tough for for a while RobertGoulet 13:08, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I also believe that Ben needs to atone still (he tells John he has a few more things to do -- interesting too how he seems to have the choice not to go in), but I think it goes a bit deeper than this. Christian tells Jack something like "the most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. You needed them, and they needed you." Ben seems to have a serious crossover here. Although his time with the Losties was arguably the most important time on the island, he likely has a stronger connection to other people like Alex (as mentioned above). He needs, and is needed by, other people. And if this "moving on point" is about meeting everyone important in your life, Ben's place is probably somewhere else. --Litany42 13:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • One definition of "sin" is anything that separates us from connection to others, to community, to being part of something larger than ourselves. Part of the brilliance of Lost was watching characters "let go" of their attachments to ego: jealousy, hatred, arrogance - things that separated them from one another - and learn to help each other. And even though they were part of a larger destiny, they still had choices. Ben chose not to enter the church with everyone else. Hugo invited Ben into the church & Iliana said on the island something to the effect that "we will have you" - but Ben chose to stay out for now. I wonder if this is because he was still grappling with a feeling of separation. (The fact that near the end Ben killed Widmore out of revenge might indicate he still had some attachment to his own agenda, rather than sacrificing for the greater good?) When Locke entered the church and Ben apologized, he referenced his own jealousy, saying that Locke had had everything Ben wanted. Also, Ben seemed caught up in a grasp for power that seemed different from the way Jack & Hurley & even pre-Flocke Locke gained their power. I hope others here can articulate this better - my thoughts about this aren't fully formed. I think Ben didn't enter the church because he is still dealing with unfinished business: guilt, remorse, maybe vengence. Maybe he needs to forgive himself before he realizes he deserves to be in there with the rest of them. No one else is stopping him but himself. Briana2346 15:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I do not think Ben had the choice to go in and no way of atonement as he killed Jacob. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gbell64 (talkcontribs) .
  • I assumed that Ben did not join the others in the church because he still believed he was an outsider, not really part of the group. That is how his character has been portrayed throughout the series: an angry, disaffected guy with no friends & whose family was a crappy, alcoholic father who was too self-absorbed to care about his son. The only person in his life was Alex -- who isn't in the church. Her death hurt so much that he still couldn't forgive Widmore at the end, when it mattered. Even if he & Hugo had a great relationship protecting the Island & he managed to redeem himself for how he treated other people before Jacob died -- it would still require a lot of chutzpah to join the group in that church. Despite Hugo & Locke's invitations. -- Llywrch 21:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Guest starring

Ok so the guest starring collum only has 4 names. This is because the other 14 or so returning actors were all credited with the main cast just for this episode but technically they are guests. How are we going to resolve this? I suggest just for this episode have a "starring" column with the names of everyone as they were in the episode as it was very different to every other episode.--Jutty 09:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes Makes sense. —Josiah Rowe 13:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Yeah make a starring column it makes sense, It does look odd having just four names for guest starring. Buffyfan123 13:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Also agree, make a starring column. --Frw22 17:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Unanswered Questions

I'm deleting this entire section. The intent of the section was to list the questions that we could expect to hear answers to. Since the show has ended, there are no more such questions. For a discussion on a possible change to the UQ sections, see Lostpedia:Ideas#Answered Questions Category in Articles.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  08:59, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

But there will be future material, notably a Q&A on the future Blu-Ray release (and who knows what else). Shouldn't we continue the UQ's for that reason?--Tim Thomason 09:05, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
The producers have said that the show needs to stand on its own and everything you need to know will be in there. There are some valid UQ's still from the rest of the series (the food palette), but nothing in this episode. All the ones I deleted from here were essentially asking what would happen next, which is... silly.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  09:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, there are two conflicting reports on what the producers will do regarding the show (Q&A or let it stand on its own), so we need to check the source on the Q&A concept that's popped up on the site. I didn't check the validity of the questions before I reversed it (before I reversed that), but I agree that there should definitely have been no *intentional* unanswered questions in this ep, and that's all we should ideally chronicle.--Tim Thomason 09:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps the original intent was to list questions to which there may be answers. But the final episode is, for obvious reasons, a little different. I think it wouldn't be "Lost" if the show didn't leave a few unanswered questions hanging out there (like, why didn't Ben go into the church when everyone else seemed to be inviting him?). It would be appropriate to underline these questions, I think. --Litany42 13:06, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Given how important questions are to Lost I'd say that, unless they are too many, we should leave some of those that are key and very relevant to the finale. That said, the coming Lost Encyclopedia (or whatever it's called) is said to clear up some things which the creators thought were understood throughout the series but which may not have been clear to those watching it, so for all we know that could clear up a few things in the future, mainly by pointing out the answers the writers thought they had given us that we'd not actually completely understood. --Sauron18 14:55, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Can you link to where the intent of the section was as you described it? I always thought the intent was simply to present questions that may not have been answered - these questions could then be discussed on the 'theories' or 'talk' page. Some of them may actually have been answered and thus would be removed once the answer was determined. Dogandpanda 15:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Even if they wont be answered, the questions do in fact exist. There are questions we didn't get an answer to. User:Lash/sig 15:42, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

We should probably create a page here on Lostopedia dedicated to "questions which were unanswered by the series in the end".--Pittsburghmuggle 21:06, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Smoke Monster creation

In the Jacob/MIB/Mother episode, Jacob throws MIB into the stream and he disappears down the cave. Presumably he fell to the bottom of the cave which would have certainly killed him! In order for him to become the Smoke Monster he would have then had to crawl all the way to the pool containing the stone and come into contact with he light there - in the final episode Desmond isn't affected by the light until he steps into the pool. So in hindsight the creation of the Smoke Monster doesn't make sense.

Also, when Jack puts the stone back into place and the light comes back on, he is in the pool - so why doesn't he turn into the Smoke Monster? Didn't Mother say going into the cave/coming into contact with the light would be worse than dying? She knew that for a normal person to come into contact with the light it would turn them into the Smoke Monster. Desmond was immune to the effect of the light but Jack - having passed his powers on to Hurley - was now a normal human being again. Also, how did Jack get out of the cave? Maybe he was turned into the Smoke Monster after all - because when we see his body outside the cave at the end it's very reminiscent of the scene with MiB after he was thrown into the cave and the Smoke Monster spat him out. --Lost3001 09:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Did anyone else notice that when Jack "Passed the baton" to Hurley, he didn't do a spell on the water before Hurley drank it? Desmond constant 10:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • On top of that, didn't Jacob's adopted mother also drink before having Jacob drink (something to do with them being equals)? I don't remember Jack doing that. I had made a comment to my wife that someone needed to leave a manual for Jack so he would know the incantation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zaggs (talkcontribs) 2010-05-24T07:59:23.
      • For what I took it as, the new protector never was given rules or incantations. They were able to make their own rules. Mother never told Jacob the incantation. He just decided to "make one up" for Jack. Jack, on the other hand, is not an incantation kind of guy, so he simply just let the power pass with a drink. It's just like the young MIB said to young Jacob, "You can make up the rules in your own game." --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   13:55, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • The Smoke Monster was not created when MiB was thrown into the light, the Smoke Monster had been around long before that happened. MiB was killed ~2000 years ago, and we've see hieroglyphics of the Smoke Monster (in the temple) which have to date sometime around ~5000 years ago. The Smoke Monster was only released when MiB was thrown into the cave.--Skicow 13:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think it's clear that MIB is Smoky, from the various things he has said about and to Jacob. It's also clear that he's not the first smoke monster, given the glyphs that predate him, and the fact that the Mother knew what would happen to him in the cave.--Jackdavinci 20:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

So why in the alternate reality / Afterlife did they all not remember?

I accept that the last 6 years wasn't just Jack's mind blasting imaginary things as he died after Oceanic 815 crashed. Why follow other characters if this was the case? But my question is, if they all created this afterlife to be together again, why did they not remember each other from the beginning. They all needed to be reminded, and gathered by Desmond, which kind of defeats the purpose of a place they created to be together doesn't it?

Or is it that they are all living in their perfect afterlife (that is a reality in which they are happy in their own skin) and only when they need to be brought together (like go to the light) that they start remembering? Stoosepp 09:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • This is very subjective, but I believe that like Christian said, they had to have moved on, that is, from the things in their life that plagued them pre-island. They have to have done this before they were 'ready' to move on. shrodes 12:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Also, in the paranormal, supposedly ghosts don't realize they are ghosts -- they think they are living. It isn't until someone makes them realize that they are dead that they are able to move on. I'm not suggesting that in the flash-sideways, everyone is a ghost, per se. I just believe that this part of the Lost mythology is probably based on this premise. --Litany42 13:13, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • I believe that the plane landing in the alternate reality is what they wanted their lives to be. They got a chance to rebuild what they wanted their realities to be on the other end of Oceanic Flight 815. However; they are reminded of how they are connected with all of the other passengers through their individual flashbacks. This explains why the Others aren't inside the church. The connection if the original Losties frames how they needed each other from day 1 on the beach. Also, for those in the church; those they met on the island were the most significant to them with the exception of Desmond and Penny. --21:27, May 24, 2010 (UTC)Jazzman6913--Jazzman6913 21:27, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Church roster

Explicitly absent:

  • Ana Lucia: "not ready" - she still is corrupt and can't be redeemed yet (the $125,000 Hurley gave her)*added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Ben: choice, maybe to be with Rouseau and Alex?
  • Widmore, Eloise, Daniel: Maybe to be be a family, and with Charlotte?
  • Michael: still an island ghost
  • David (Jack's son): because he doesn't actually exist?
    • Agreed. As noted elsewhere, perhaps David was Jack's creation to help him "let go" of his own father issues. By experiencing fatherhood, he learned to forgive Christian and himself. David wasn't in the church because he only existed in Jack's "mind." Briana2346 15:39, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Conspicuously absent:

  • Alex, Danielle: to be with Ben? Danielle's husband/team: ??
  • Anthony Cooper: yet to be redeemed?
  • Charlotte: to be with Daniel?
  • Eko/Yemi: actor availability? - Eko needed to be with Yemi in his afterlife because that was central to his life. *added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Jacob / MIB / Mother; Richard/Isabella: not part of Jack's group? - Again they had their own afterlife *added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Miles / Chang: He needed to be with his parents in his afterlife. *added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Walt / Vincent" Waiting for Michael? - He was with his dad in his afterlife. *added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Other random important people: Arzt, Frogurt, Nikki & Paulo, Scott & Steve, Helen, other redshirts, other random family members of Losties... - Helen was with Locke in the church. *added by arullo* —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arullo (talkcontribs) .
  • Charlie II, Yi Jeon

At church:

  • Jack & Kate & Christian
  • Boone & Shannon & Sayid
  • Rose & Bernard
  • Sawyer & Juliet
  • Hurley & Libby
  • Locke
  • Desmond & Penny
  • Charlie & Claire & Aaron
  • Jin & Sun & fetus Yi Jeon

--Jackdavinci 10:16, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Addition to continuity section

It's possible that I missed something, but it seemed like there must have been a missing scene where Ben was freed from being pinned under the large tree which had fallen on him. One minute they were straining in apparent vain to lift the tree which did not seem to be budging even with Sawyer's prying stick, and the next Ben walks over the rock face with the rest, not even limping. It would have made more sense if the tree hadn't fallen on him at all (except then Jack's buddies wouldn't have been absent from his struggles with MIB). Russella 11:19, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Action that has implicitly happened offscreen isn't a continuity problem.  Robert K S   tell me  12:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
This was noticeable to me too. Threw me off for a bit. Maybe the deleted scenes on the DVD will show us a few more minutes and Ben finally being freed shrodes 12:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Island was shaking still and it showed the log had rolled partially off, so you assume that Ben (helped by Sawyer and Hugo) was able to squeeze through and got out. *added by arullo*

I feel weird being the first to mention this, but this seems like a big deal - the plane that took off from the island is the Ajira plane - it's a smaller plane than 815, and it has weird, kinda tipped wings. BUT, later, just before Jack closes his eyes, he sees the plane go past above him, it looks like a bigger plane, with regular wings - it looks like 815. -- 19:01, May 24, 2010 (UTC) TheRubio

Irony?

I didn't want to remove this because maybe I'm not thinking of something, but I fail to see how "Jacob was killed by Ben and kicked into fire. The Man in Black was killed by Kate and kicked onto a plateau of rocks." is ironic. Danh916 12:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Jack's life's defining moment is how he gives his life in order to save the island, however, in the fifth season finale, he blows the entire island up and sinks it to the bottom of the ocean. JudeEh 15:18, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

We now know the bomb failed to detonate. --- Balk Of Fametalk 19:03, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
We don't know that. The bomb could have been part of The Incident, and the consequential Flash popped them back to the present. We only know that the Island never actually sunk, and there was no timeline split. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 19:19, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Man in Black's death

Did anyone else think "Piggy" from Lord of the Flies when they saw the Man in Black's dead corpse on the rocks? Looked like they directly ripped it from the book. All that was missing was some waves to carry his body away. Phobia27 12:43, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, wait

I'm confused. I thought Jack put the magic rock back in the source. Why didn't he unlock the UFO ending?--Gibbeynator 13:12, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

What? —Josiah Rowe 18:51, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Somehow there must have been a glitch, because he got the dog ending instead. --Amedeus8 21:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Transcript of Christian/Jack Dialogue

C: Hey, kiddo. J: Dad?

C: Hello, Jack.

J: I don't understand...you died.

C: Yes, I did.

J: Then, how are you here right now?

C: How are YOU here?

J: I died, too?

C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)

J: I love you, dad...are you real?

C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.

J: They're all...

C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.

J: Are they all here now?

C: Well, there is no "Now" here.

J: Where are we, dad?

C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.

J: For what?

C: To remember....and let go.

J: Kate--she said we were leaving.

C: Not leave--No--Moving on.

J: Where are we going?

C: Let's go find out.

Ok sorry but whoever wrote this made a poor effort. This is not an accurate transcript. PeterR 16:15, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Everyone's Take?

Most series finales are horrible. Arguably, the "Lost" finale would be even harder to get right because (a) it has to tie up a lot of loose ends and (b) tie them up in such a way that all the fans are happy with. (I think that as we've seen from Lostpedia, this is a hard thing to do...)

So, how did this episode rate? Pass, fail? Anything left out?

Personally, I think the episode as a whole worked extremely well. It did tie up the story, and ultimately was a satisfying ending. I also liked the fact that everyone who was supposed to be a couple hooked up again at the end. This could have come off as hokey, but I think they nailed it, making it touching but not sappy.

And the last shot, with Jack closing his eye while looking up in the bamboo forest, was perhaps the most poignant since BJ spelled out "Goodbye" in MASH. I also loved that Vincent was there with him, so he did not "die alone" -- as Hatchbanger mentioned above, this was a stroke of genius.

Honestly, one of the best series finales of all time. --Litany42 13:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Soppy labradors make me cry :(

Mitchincredible 13:46, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

This is better suited to blogs or forums. The Talk page is designed for the discussion of the article itself. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  13:47, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Our Mutual Friend...

One of the things I hoped to see was Desmond, at some point, reading "Our Mutual Friend". Didn't happen of course, but I'm realizing now that *he* was everyone's mutual friend -- he was the one who started to "wake up" the Losties.

Is this too strained? Or do I have something here? Not quite sure where the reference should go though... --Litany42 15:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

im thinking all will be revealed in series 7!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sandwichking!! (talkcontribs) .

  • When Ben was talking to Locke, explaining what had happened to him, I was hoping he'd say, "I had a run in with our mutual friend," and go on to explain the guy that ran Locke over beat him up. It would have been a nice inclusion. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 19:21, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Desmond thought he was going to die in season 2, that's when he found the note from Penny in the book. The writers have therefore sprung that plot bit already. Desmond probably read it sometime during his years on the sailboat with Penny figuring he has had close brushes with death already so he may as well go on and get it read.--Pittsburghmuggle 21:13, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Why Couldn't Jacob Do it Himself? And How Did Widmore know it Could be Done?

If all it took to make Smokey killable was to turn the lights off for a bit, why couldn't Jacob do it? Why'd he have to set up such a "long con"? Especially with Desmond hanging around for like 3 years before Oceanic 815 even crashed. Jacob could've recruited him, stuck him down the hole, got him to turn the lights off, shot Smokey before he even knew WTF, and then got Desmond to turn the lights back on. Or Smokey could've done the same, tricking Desmond into 'uncorking' the island.

You can argue that neither Smokey nor Jacob knew Desmond was immune to electromagnetism/the light. But that's kinda odd, considering they both seem to know everything about everyone, and would have noticed Desmond surviving an EMP blast (not to mention noticing Dharma's EM research). It begs the question, if neither of the two most all-knowing characters could figure out that Desmond can survive the light, how did Charles Widmore find out? Even if Widmore knew about the light, it seems unlikely he'd know more than Jacob, or Smokey, who actually seemed to live down there.

So, either Smokey and/or Jacob could have easily killed each other and/or destroyed the island at any time, but didn't do it for inexplicable reasons; Or, the two oldest surviving residents of the island, both with the ability to look into people's pasts, couldn't figure out in 2000 years, what some random old guy did in a couple months.

Seems like more evidence of sloppy writing. James Joseph Emerald

  • This is what I think: Jacob knew Desmond was special in some way. Maybe Desmond wasn't immune to electromagnetism until he was first exposed to it on the Island. Maybe it was the Islands unique electromagnetism that differs from other electromagnetism throughout the world that allowed him to survive. Perhaps, it wasn't until Desmond survived his first encounter with the electromagnetism that Jacob and MIB found out jsut how special he was. Also, Jacob couldn't have done it by himself. Stepping into the water at the source started the EMP or sorts. Only Desmond could survive that energy. It is only after the source was unplugged that anyone could replug it back in. Again, this is just my thoughts. --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   16:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Also... it's easy to think the easy way.. but living the story is diferent. You know what happened so you can say "why didn't they do it this or that way?". But when you don't know what's goning to happen you can think so much. Maybe Jacob thought that was the easy way to do it... maybe also MiB thought that was the easy way (with their knowledge and experience at that moment) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stabilini (talkcontribs) .
  • I still think it's a stretch that nobody ever noticed Desmond surviving the EMP until years later. But I guess if you try hard you could swallow it. However, what about the Widmore thing? Jacob never mentions Desmond, and Smokey seems surprised to see him. So how is it that only Widmore has the idea of using him on 'The Source' (presuming Widmore even has seen the Source, knows where it is, or knows its function)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by James Joseph Emerald (talkcontribs) .
    • Eloise perhaps knew of Desmond's unique abilities after the events of The Constant. She could have shared this with Widmore. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Danh916 (talkcontribs) .

I dont agree with the comment regarding sloppy writing at all. Throughout the entire Lost saga, there have been countless images of people that have been dead, returning to haunt the people they influenced when they were alive. Therefore, it could be argued that Jacob himself was tricked into believing that his brother was in fact alive. As well as this, Jacob was portrayed as a non-violent man everytime us as an audience were introduced to him, most clearly shown in the episode with him and his mother. The only time we ever see him get angry that i can recall, is when he beats his brother to a pulp (i except this is extreme violence!). However, it is clear to see that he instantly regrets his actions, and therefore the sense of destroying who he believes to be his brother, is against his nature. What i love abut the whole Lost campaign, is that it is so open for interpretation to everybody! It can mean absolutely anything, to absolutely. Of course there will always be bits that people dont agree with, or think are ridiculous. I take my hat off to the cast, for not giving up on the concept after a couple of seasons, as so many previous dramas have. --Ltanfield 18:50, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Eko?

  • The article currently states that Eko appeared in archive footage. While I don't doubt that's true, I personally didn't notice it. Could someone tell me exactly when he appears? --LeoChris 15:48, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Ive looked through all the flashbacks and I see no eko. Walt is in Lockes but I dont see eko in anyones. I messaged the guy who added him will see what he says, i could be wrong. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  15:52, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I thought Eko's hand was briefly seen baptizing Aaron during Claire's flash? Am I wrong about that? --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   16:02, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that was during the clip show, not the episode. Could be wrong though. --Golden Monkey 16:07, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Eko's hand was indeed seen during the clip show. But not during the actual episode, if I recall correctly. --LeoChris 16:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I just rewatched the scene where Claire remembers, and there are no clips of Eko. Just Kate and Charlie. --Golden Monkey 17:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Storyline Analysis

  • This here" * Everything that happened on the island, happened in real life. No one on the island was dead the whole time - they all survived the initial plane crash, etc. In the final episode, Jack died, Hurley became protector with Ben as his number 2, and everyone else who died on the island or elsewhere, died. Those who died without fulfilling their purpose (i.e. Michael) were doomed to forever be whispers on the island. Those who fulfilled their purpose (Jin&Sun, Sayid, etc.) were allowed to go to the Flash Sideways timeline after they died, where they searched for the truth and were able to right their wrongs, i.e. make the right decisions about their life that they should've made in the first place. Once they saw the truth/their past on the island/remembered it, only then were they ready to "move on" and come to the church, which ultimately led them to heaven. Anna Lucia Cortez fulfilled her purpose on the island. However, being a corrupt police officer in the sideways timeline, apparently made the same mistake she made in during her life time, violating her oath as a police officer by accepting Desmond's bribe event though she was key in getting them out of jail albeit illegally. Thusly she was "not ready" as Desmond said to Hurley and so she was not invited to "move on". Ben Linus chose to stay behind, possibly to be with Daniel Rousseau and her daughter Alex, both still unaware of the past life on the Island.


"

    • Was really more of a theory than storyline analysis. Based on a lot of (probably correct) speculation. However, as no one can confirm or deny, I'm going to move it to the theories section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ErikGerm (talkcontribs) .

Help Me Trace the Gun that Defeated MiB?

  • Ok, so Kate shot and incapacited MiB with the gun she ripped from Sawyer's hands (and previously tried to use it to not result on MiB, foreshadowing that moment.) I think it has a special symbolism as the only visible result of the rather unproductive and unnecesary scene with Sawyer meeting MiB at the well was that Sawyer stole that rifle from Ben, (whom we explicitly were shown charging it in the first scenes of the episode.) If that's the same rifle Ben had been carrying around since Dr. Linus, it was given to him by MiB himself to help him escape from Ilana. Can anyone tell if we can trace it even further back?Maokun 16:14, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • That's a good point, and would be interesting if it was that gun. However, my thoughts were that Ben took it from Zoe after the incident with Widmore. "She's armed," he had said. I don't remember with what specifically, but I thought she had a rifle. I'll rewatch today, and maybe notice. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 17:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Jack's neck wound

I'll have to watch the episode again but what was the origin of Jack's neck wound that kept bleeding throughout the flash-sideways story line? Steamwalker 16:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Flocke cut his neck when he and Jack were fighting on the cliff. LostAtSea 16:43, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
    • Although the first cut he notices, on the plane in the first episode of season six, is in the wrong spot, as far as I could tell. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by James Joseph Emerald (talkcontribs) .

C.S. Lewis and Christian Allegory

Has anyone noticed the parallels to C.S. Lewis's Perelandra? In the book, two men from Earth travel to Venus, which the inhabitants call Perelandra. There they find that the planet is covered by an ocean, and on the surface of this ocean are floating islands. It is an "unfallen" paradise like Eden. One man, Weston, becomes possessed by a demon who overwhelms Weston's own personality and seeks to corrupt and destroy this paradise. The other man, Ransom, becomes determined to protect the paradise from Weston's evil designs. Eventually, the only way Ransom can prevail is to confront Weston in a desperate physical fight, and, eventually, he smashes Weston's head with a rock. In the fight, Ransom suffers a wound from which he never fully recovers. The parallels aren't perfect, but they are there. Given that one of the characters in Lost is named C.S. Lewis--and that the ending became a sort of allegory with the "Christian shepherd" leading them all into the light--I don't think this connection is too far-fetched! --RS—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rstewart (talkcontribs) .

Oh, very nice! I'd noticed the parallels with The Last Battle in my user blog, and another user noted that the flash-sideways reality is a bit like The Great Divorce... this episode was chock full of C.S. Lewis! —Josiah Rowe 18:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I read that book when I was young, and I've been trying to remember what it was called and who it was by ever since. Sorry, go back to what you were doing. That was just bothering me for years upon years :D --Amedeus8 21:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Co-Stars

  • Just wondering, is there any specific reason why the co-stars aren't listed in the article yet? Were they not listed in the USA's end credits? (They were listed in Canada's ... but we didn't get the footage of the empty plane, just a trailer for CSI... so it's possible our whole set of credits was different.) --LeoChris 17:31, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
I added them, there weren't many. Even if one of them shares a name with a Doctor Who character...--Golden Monkey 17:42, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Incident and the FST

So, in the grand scheme of things, what role did the incident play in bringing about this conclusion? Obviously, the FST wasn't created by Juliette blowing up the nuke since it turned out to be an afterlife. Perhaps her dying words of "it worked" were meant to signify that she could see into the FST and that it brought everyone together. Thoughts? What, in the end, did this huge event that they took a whole season to explain end up accomplishing? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frankqb (talkcontribs) .

You could say The Incident, as referenced in the swan video, caused the need for the button to be pushed to release excess electromagnetism, and with Desmond turning the failsafe leading to his unique properties, or, if not causing his electromagnatism immunity, at least bringing them to light. Danh916 18:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Also, the H-bomb that Juliet sets off combines with the EMP and is able to send all the Losties back into their own present. Had that never occurred, Jacob would be doomed without most of his candidates, especially those that became crucial to stopping MIB. --   Atomic Mystro    talk    contribs   18:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • That itself was a bit convenient. Why would they be sent back to their own present? Smashing a hydrogen bomb with a rock doesn't seem like the most accurate way to time-travel. Seems more likely they'd end up in some other random time period. Also, with regards to the button-pressing... why have a button? Why not just flip the failsafe in the first place? The Incident seemed like it was ill-thought-through. James Joseph Emerald 18:34, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
The nuke detonation was what always happened Miles was right when he said the little nuke was the incident. The theme of Whatever happened happened proved true. The survivors were always the ones who caused the incident. They never changed the past they were just a part of it. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  18:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Juliet believed it worked because she saw into the Afterlife. Desmond had the same experience after being microwaved. That's why he was so smug. He thought there was something in an alternate timeline that he could use, go to, or take from. That's what he was wrong about when he failed to do whatever he hoped after angioplastying the Island's heart. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 19:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Kate's dress

From mistakes: "At the concert, Kate was wearing a strapless dress, and no evidence of a gunshot wound was present, despite Jack's knife scar and neck bleeding." Judging from what Christian said Kate died years later. Given that no one else showed off wounds from the main timeline, I'd assume that Jack is the odd one out here, not Kate. --Golden Monkey 18:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  18:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Final UAQ List

2 things here. First, there are UAQ from this specific episode, and as such, there should be a section for them.

Second, now that the show is over, how about an article listing every UAQ throughout the series? I think that would be extremely relevant. -- Xbenlinusx 18:37, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Flashback?

I deleted this once and someone restored it so I'll ask about it first before deleting it again... Why do we have flashbacks listed for each of the characters? The flashes in this episode were entirely flashsideways. If someone's going to try and make the argument that the visions they saw of their lives were flashbacks, then there's no precedent for that in other articles.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  19:39, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • Yes Agreed, shouldn't be listed. (Kdc2 20:29, May 24, 2010 (UTC))

Kristen's answers

Kristen dos Santos from E spoke with some of the behind the scenes Lost people, and here is what she found out:

Answers:

  • The "help me" voice, the eye, Christian, etc in the cabin were all MIB
  • There will some answers about Walt on the DVD
  • 108 on the lighthouse wheel - the name was not important
  • MIB's name was Samuel which means "man of God" - Kristen thinks Mother named him that because she originally thought he would be her replacement
  • Rapidly changing weather - the protector of the island had the ability to control the weather, so they could for example bring ships to the island, but they could also subconsciously affect the weather with their emotional state such as the storm when Jack is fighting Locke

Theories:

  • Jin was the Kwon candidate (though this might be Kristen's pet theory, she justifies it by noting that Sun would have been let off the hook for being a Mom, but she doesn't address if she was a candidate before she became a Mom).
  • Last scene with the plane crash - she thinks it's just season one B-roll footage to have a nice image for the credits
  • Numbers - she thinks that Hurley's bad luck related to the numbers was related to what would happen if the light went out

From http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b182505_lost_want_know_man_in_blacks_real_name.html --Jackdavinci 20:25, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Jin and Sun flash-sideways?

Why are Jin and Sun listed as having a flash-sideways? Sayid isn't because he's dead and he wasn't in the main timeline. Shouldn't we take Jin and Sun off for the same reason? Gefred7112 21:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

With Sayid we can say that was really Hurley's. But there's one flash-sieways that has only dead characters in it: Jin, Sun and Juliet. The focus of the scene is clearly on Jin & Sun, not Juliet, and there's no one else it could be. So that's why. --Golden Monkey 21:21, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
Considering all the characters are dead, I don't see how being dead disqualifies any of them. --- Balk Of Fametalk 21:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sideways flashes & what I think it means

What I think was going on is this: The Island reality is the real reality - i.e, this is what these people ACTUALLY went through - they really did crash or come to the island to work, or however they arrived it really happened. The "Sideways flashes" - i.e, all the stuff that's been going on where the plane landed safely and people like Ben and Juliette are living their lives amongst society, THAT is not real. My theory is this - at the point our lost people die - I'm not saying they die all together, but as and when they die at their own times ( as indicated by Hugo & Ben thanking each other for being leader 1 & 2), in the last seconds of life, their memory's concoct an alternate reality, one in which they never went to the island - so, Hugo is suddenly a lucky man and doesn't have bad numbers, Sawyer is a cop not a crook - this alternate "sideways flash" is the fake reality & this reality lasts for as long as it takes the brain to accept that it's dying (you know sometimes you sleep for only a few moments but your dream felt like it was 2 hours long? yea, like that). So, like Jack's dad says, Jacks most important part of his life was spent with these people - so of course your memory is going to concoct a situation where by you see them all again and "move on" together - hence why he didn't close his eyes till they left the church. If for example we were mostly following Jin & Sun, we probably would have seen them at the church in the same scenario, at the point of their deaths in the sub. I don't know if I'm making much sense, but that's what I think the writers were trying to convey - the "sideways flash" isn't purgatory, it's simply that moment your life flashes before your eyes, just with a twist of there being an alternate version of it too (since it's Lost it doesn't always have to make sense!)

Aaron

Why did Aaron have to be born again? I mean, I get what that means for Claire and Kate and all, but that's sort of cheating Aaron a bit, in the long run. Presumably he got to grow up and live his own life at some point, and now he has to start over as a kid while everyone else (aside from maybe Alex) gets to be an adult. Wouldn't this almost imply that he died really young or something, since Jack's neck is bleeding because he died with it like that? Granted, he was a couple years old already when... argh, this is going to give me a headache. Someone give me a theory, quick! --Amedeus8 21:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

  • My best guess is that Aaron isn't real, like David Shepard. Of course, Aaron does grow up and have his own life in reality. But in the Afterlife, that's not actually him. It's just him to Claire. -- Clayburn talk contributions email 21:49, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
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