Lostpedia
Register
Advertisement

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Candidate article.
General discussion about the article's subject is permitted as a way to aid improvement of the article.
Theories about the article subject should not be discussed here.
(Instead, post your theory to this article's theory page
or discuss it on this article's theory talk page.)

  • Be polite, don't bite, have fun!
  • Admins are here to help
  • More discussion at the Forum
Article policies

Just FYI

If you're checking up on this site around Tuesday, April 27th and are wondering why a new Lost hasn't aired on ABC, it is because The show is on a one-week hiatus and will return the next Tuesday, May 4.--Pittsburghmuggle 00:54, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone know why it's going on hiatus for a week? Is it a production reason, are they trying to place the finale in a big time, is it to accommodate some other show...? --Golden Monkey 04:09, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
My theory (and it's only a theory, mind you), is that they decided they wanted the finale on a Sunday night, so they moved all the episodes forward in time rather than shorting themselves a few days of production time.--Pittsburghmuggle 06:54, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
You might be right about the gaining a few days and airing on a Sunday part, but all the other episodes are not moving at all. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
Okay, the real reason is when the smoke monster is in smoke form he only eats Apollo Bars, and they were out of them.--Pittsburghmuggle 07:41, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
I think it was because May sweeps started on April 29, so if they pushed it back a week, then the final four episodes will begin and end in sweeps week. --SilentSpy 04:15, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Episode connections

New guidelines

Recent reference guidelines, which allowed only explicit references through dialogue, excluded a lot of useful content. I've contacted several people over the past month about including more subtle connections. Everyone with an opinion agreed. Connections now appear under two subheadings:

  • Episode references - when characters describe a previous scene
  • Episode allusions - when scenes merely echo previous scenes

I've detailed elsewhere the differences between the two. Don't go crazy with allusions. We'll vet them through consensus, as we do with unanswered questions. When in doubt, first discuss. --- Balk Of Fametalk 10:21, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

  • Brilliant. We need this. I'm not sure when the "rules" changed, or who decided it, because it was never discussed. All of a sudden, a clear reference to a previous scene is no long a reference because the character specificaly refer to the scene in question. This meant "Locke's" bad day comment to Sun wasn't allowed, neither was MIB's "sooner than you think" line. I reckon you'll have to create the sub-headings yourself when the article is unlocked anyway, but hopefully no one gets carried away and starts removing the allusions heading because they disagree.--Baker1000 20:39, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Centric?

Jack centric, right? Or Jack, Locke centric? SLRibs 01:59, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • Both, I'd say. --LeoChris 02:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Wasn't it just Jack? There were definitely no flashes from Lockes pov. InflatableBombshelter 02:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Just Jack cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:06, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
First flash started in Locke's eyes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SLRibs (talkcontribs) 2010-05-04T21:04:45.
  • So? A flash has to start on the person whose centricity it is? Calling this a Jack and Locke centric episode is like saying A Tale of Two Cities is Jack and Juliet centric. Oh wait, people here don't understand the meaning of "centricity" so that is what it would be called.--HaloOfTheSun 02:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I say Jack centric. And remember Eggtown started with Locke as well, but that wasn't Locke centric.--Frank J Lapidus 03:36, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
NoI'd say more on the side of Locke. He was the title character, and almost every Jack scene was about Locke and his past. Last episode was more on the side of Jack, this one more on the side of Locke. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
I'd say Flash sideways to Jack and Locke, centricity to Jack. (Kdc2 02:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
I agree with Jack + Locke. Not only were they the primary characters in the sideflash, but the on-island events were mainly a series of "moves" in a game between the two. Definitely Jack + Locke. --michael_is_NOT_in_the_coffin 18:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Im Jack + Locke, clear focus on both and both had multiple POV flashes. Thats usually the criteria. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  02:25, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Definitely Jack and Locke. --Bish-Fiscuit 02:33, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Jack and Locke for sure. Sophia108 02:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Jack and Locke. Jack had the majority of the POV flashes, but the first and last began with Locke's POV and the plot was much more about Locke than Jack. --Golden Monkey 03:13, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

No Jack centric only. The episode starting with Locke means nothing. What matters is that the flash ended with Jack and the immediately following scene also focused on Jack. This is the case for every single sideways sequence in the episode. --Pyramidhead 04:25, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Reply Didn't the Island sequence following the flashsideway with Cooper start with a close-up on Locke? (Going from Anthony onto Locke)? --LeoChris 04:29, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
So...what does that signify? Alt Locke wasn't in that that scene at all. Okay, so what I described didn't happen every time, but I couldn't even begin to list the times that a flash-whatever transitioned to something completely unrelated with different characters on the island. It doesn't change anything. --Pyramidhead 04:41, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
But the entire episode was about Locke. He was even the title character. Jack was just a facilitator for the audience to learn more about Locke. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
This one made me laugh! How is Locke the title character? He explicately states that he doesn't want to be the candidate, which means that everyone else is more of a title character than Locke. Locke is the exact opposite of the title character. Marc604 06:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
...just as "The Brig" was about Sawyer, arguably. It's not always cut-and-dry, but the structure of the episode makes this a Jack episode. --Pyramidhead 04:41, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Also, the title character could just as likely refer to Jack, or to any of the five. There's always a double meaning. --Pyramidhead 04:46, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Just thought of another possible piece of evidence for Locke-centricity.. Doesn't the last flashsideway start with only Locke present? Jack is nowhere to be seen until well into the scene. --LeoChris 04:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Again, something that happens extremely often. Remember Frank at the start of "The Lie"? --Pyramidhead 04:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Season 5 had some of the less "obvious" and most arguable centrics ever. I don't think using it as an example here really qualifies. The show has clearly gone back to a pattern similar to that of the older seasons. Does that also occur in those? I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but you may be right ... --LeoChris 04:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
True. That was just the most obvious example I could think of; there have been plenty of times that the flash started with somebody/something else and then found its way to the main character. --Pyramidhead 05:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes Jack/Locke is what was listed on the writer's board in Wired magazine. --Jackdavinci 05:06, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yep, I was just gonna post this. But Damon and Carlton also had "Because You Left" as Jack/Locke and "Jughead" as Desmond/Faraday and we didn't go with those. At the very least, if we go with just Jack, we have to note the producer's board in the notes. Alexisfan07 May 5, 2010

No Although the episode's storyline had a huge focus on Locke, To consider him a centric character would be inconsistent with previous policy. The centricity has always been determined by the centricity of the flashes. In Hearts and Minds, for example, Shannon was obviously an important character and she appeared in the flashes. She didn't appear in all of them though, and that makes the episode Boone-centric. Same goes for some Sun&Jin-episodes, which are centric to only one of them: they obviously appear in the flashes of each other and both are involved in the on-island events, but if all the flashes belong to just Sun, then the centric character is just Sun. If decided this episode to be a Jack&Locke-centric, then we should go back and change the centricity of Hearts&Minds accordingly. And BTW, I think that Jack was much more in the center of the sideways than Locke. Jack was an active character, initiating the events thad happened, Locke was just there. (And I know about the writers' board, but if we went with that, we should change The Last Recruit from "Various" to "Roundelay") Andris22 14:18, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Jack/Locke. The focus was on their relationship and interactions. We got way more information on Locke than on Jack in the FST - we found out how he broke his back, we saw his father, etc. Jack also came right out and called him a "candidate" in direct reference to the title, albeit as a candidate for spinal surgery. If this had been a Jack-only episode we would have seen more Jack-centric information such as learning who David's mother is. (Mirth23 15:22, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
  • With regards to Anthony Cooper, the wording "He appears to be in a vegetative state." should be changed. He does not appear to be in a vegetative state. He can clearly sit up on his own, hold his head up, and eat (she wiped food from his mouth). That is not a vegetative state. Do we want to call him "mentally disabled" or "appears to be unable to communicate." Thoughts? --Jacknisko 16:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Look, the last flash-sideways had a scene that featured only Locke, before Jack came in. This isn't like Frank in The Lie. Frank was irrelevant to the plot in The Lie. Here, Locke is the plot. Jack has practically no development, while Locke had tons. Locke has a flash-sideways and the plot focuses around him. More people think it's Jack & Locke than just Jack-thus, consensus it's Jack & Locke. The writers even think it's centric to both. It's clear what it is, and the page should reflect what the majority of people think. --Golden Monkey 18:16, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Frank

  • This may seem like a stupid question, but are we 100% sure he's dead? We didn't see him drown, unlike Sun and Jin... in fact, we hadn't seen him in a while, maybe he swam out somehow? --LeoChris 02:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

He was in a totally different room that flooded much faster and the door came out on him. I'd say he died. SLRibs 02:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • I bet he's alive. We didn't see a body, and they need him to pilot the plane. Either way, like Jin on the Kahana, it's at least ambiguous at this point. --Butseriouslyfolks 02:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think he's dead... Frank was below in the engine room. Hardly any chance getting above the water. Crappy send-off, but this episode was all around pretty crappy overall. Deadmaus 02:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I definitely don't think he's definitely dead. --Bish-Fiscuit 03:07, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • It could go either way, but I think that if Frank was dead we would have been shown it for sure. Of course, his body could just be discovered later or something, but I think there's a chance he made it. --Golden Monkey 03:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • We should keep Frank's status as unknown. I think there's still a good chance he's alive, we didn't see him again after the door hits him.--Frank J Lapidus 03:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Agreed. We really have no idea at this point.JakeC 06:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • We don't know, but it's my personal opinion his number was up once we were told they weren't taking the plane. The character was dragged along to make us think the plane really would be important, because they would need someone to fly it. (And if that's the case, it's the easiest paycheck Jeff Fahey's ever earned!) Plus, we're getting REALLY close to the end for an "I'm not really dead!" surprise. --Pittsburghmuggle 07:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think we all know why Frank is dead. It's because The Island was done with him. Widmore rigged the plane. That made the plane useless. Frank's purpose was to fly the plane. Frank was no longer needed. Just like Ilana, The Island no longer needed Frank. That's why Frank went splat. "There she was - picked by Jacob, trained to come and protect you candidates, no sooner does she tell you who you are, then she blows up. The Island was done with her. Makes me wonder what's gonna happen when it's done with us." By the way, what are Ben, Richard, and Miles up to? PhillyPartTwo 14:50, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Dead as dead can be. At best Frank was always a second string character, not part of the central issues, not a candidate, hardly anything to do or say. He got a fitting end. When a bulkhead door hits you like that, and then you get drowned - and no one rescues you and the sub you are in sinks - you die. What further dramatic need is there for him. We all liked him but tonight was about saying goodbye.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   12:22, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Which is a shame. I was really really convinced that Frank was to be a huge key to the whole mystery. I thought he was going to be very important. Now he is sadly no more important than The Lawnmower Man himself. PhillyPartTwo 14:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • the only ones who are important are the ones that are important. Stupid I know, but that means - Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Hurley and Ben. And, of course Desmond. Not Miles and I doubt Richard. Widmore has some role to play. I doubt Claire is central to anything. MiB.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   15:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Dead. Hatchbanger 14:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Rose and Bernard

It is yet undetermined what happened to Rose and Bernard, so the page should not note that there are only 6 left from Oceanic 815.--Shmibar 02:15, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. We haven't heard anything about them since the Losties flashed out of Dharma times. We don't even know if they came with them. --michael_is_NOT_in_the_coffin 02:23, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

6 Left from Oceanic 815 entirely is wrong as well. Middle section - Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and Claire. Rose is unknown, Walt is off the island. That make 7 from the middle section. Tail section - Bernard is unknown, Cindy and the kids are unknown, the rest is fuzzy. All we know is that some people who were taken from the tail section, not sure if they were later killed, or are like Cindy at the moment. I've just updated Body count, this gives an overall status of the characters. Phobia27 03:08, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

They really did dismiss Cindy, the kids, and the other Lockies pretty lamely. "Scattered in the jungle". How convenient. 14:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
Rose and Bernard aren't main cast members. Kajillion 05:06, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
The initial posting spoke of the survivors of 815, not main cast members. It's been altered several times since then.--Shmibar 05:57, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Bomb

  • Why does the bomb go off, but Jack and Richard are saved in the 1800s ship? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deadmaus (talkcontribs) 2010-05-04T21:57:46.
    • Maybe because Sawyer tried to disarm it. If Sawyer hadn't tried to disarm the bomb, maybe it wouldn't have gone off as Jack stated b/c MIB can't kill them, but since Sawyer interfered with the bomb, it was able to go off. Alienux|talk|contributions 03:22, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • The answer to this one isn't metaphysical. It had nothing to do with who can kill whom. Sawyer simply armed the device by tampering with it. If it had counted down, nothing would have happened, not because the island was involved, but because it wasn't armed to begin with.Superfresh 06:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Nope, Richard was the one that lite the dynamite so he would have been the one to kill them similar to Sawyer killing everyone today. My guess is because they were on the island in the boat but the sub was far enough off shore.Rukkis 03:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
        • Richard's not a candidate. Only a candidate can kill a candidate. That's why Jack had to make Sayid take the pill. --Orhan94 03:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
        • Smokey cant kill them, they cant kill themselves, but them killing each other is a somewhat hazy subject. And Sawyer definitely initiated the 'quick' countdown, insinuating that the explosion was his doing at it's core than the doing of Smokey. And let us remember; Sawyer did not die. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shatarlore (talkcontribs) 2010-05-04T22:44:32.
          • What about, say, the Rousseaus? Keamy isn't a candidate, as far as we know ... --LeoChris 03:45, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
            • I think it's safe to say anyone who's been killed at this point was not a candidate. CaptainSmartass 03:53, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
              • Except for all those candidates. But other than that, yeah.--HaloOfTheSun 04:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
                • It's not being a candidate that makes you unable to die, its being touched by Jacob, so that refutes the Keamy part--Roneman90 05:35, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
                  • Then what about Jin and Sun? --Nameghino 05:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
                    • And that truly is the question, isn't it? PhillyPartTwo 14:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Locke was killed by Ben. Faraday was killed by Hawking. Sayid was killed by DI, then he killed himself. Juliet killed herself. Sun was killed by Sawyer, but Jin accepted death as the only option for staying with Sun. The rules don't seem clear.(Jack Dutton 06:34, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
      • I think there are (at least) two rules: 1) You can't kill yourself if you are needed by the island or Jacob to do something (hence: Michael couldn't kill himself off-island, Jack and Richard couldn't kill themselves) 2) The smoke monster can't kill any of the *candidates* (unless they've been crossed off) -- or possibly he isn't *supposed* to kill them or he'll forfeit his prize. The above murders/suicides do not defy either of those rules. Clamshell 13:07, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'd say Juliet was killed when the Hot Pocket triggered by the DI pulled her into a pit through a rebar. The nuke didn't seem to do anything to her other than throw her through time. --Jbillones 13:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • So maybe there is one rule. You won't die until the Island is done with you. Regardless of whose side you are on, you won't die until the Island is done with you. MiB can kill candidates, but he can't kill them all. He would have to leave one candidate alive. The loophole MiB is trying to go through is the elimination of all candidates. If he always has to leave one, then he is trapped on the Island. If they all kill each other, he can leave. (Jack Dutton 17:06, May 5, 2010 (UTC))

Ilana

Did anyone happen to notice whether Zuleikha Robinson was credited for the episode?  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  03:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • She was, I looked for it.--Frank J Lapidus 03:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • She is still alive in the flash sideways so why not right? You can try reading the press release for episode 16 (since I doubt they would credit people who are not involved in the flashback episode, at least I assume that there will not be any 2007 or sideways scenes) --ShadowSlave 07:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • She is still a regular. Very interesting. Marc604 07:43, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I know she's still in the press release, I just don't trust them with how they handle main characters, after the whole Miles/Charlotte/Daniel/Charlotte again/Desmond thing. It'll be curious to see whether she comes back any time this season. It's not the first time they've killed someone off and just kept their credit around (Boone, Ana and Libby if I recall).  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  09:10, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Often, there are contractual obligations that require shows to keep actors' names in the credits for a specific number of episodes per season. dmzimmerman 10:58, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

The "unspoken revelation" that Sun is the Candidate

What is this? Who put it there? When did this take place? Illyrias Acolyte 04:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • Never mind, it was removed. If it comes back, kindly explain it. Illyrias Acolyte 04:44, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I wrote that. It's the manner of how they died that proves Sun is the candidate -- because Jin is not. I think that's the entire point of the title and also a huge added layer to the death scene. Jin cannot be a candidate because he sacrificed himself to be with Sun -- constituting suicide, something a candidate cannot commit. The whole time when Sun is trying to talk him into going, the subtext is that his decision will show us whether or not he's the candidate.--Pogopark 05:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • If I'm way off base, let me know. But I think the writers established the rules painstakingly, even choosing Ab Aeterno as the repeat episode, where this rule is blatantly stated. This is a pretty straightforward interpretation of events.--Pogopark 05:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sun and Jin died as a result of Sawyer's actions. Because he was a candidate he could cause their deaths, just not his own. Sayid, for example, clearly committed suicide. I don't think the situation is clear. It's an interesting theory though. --Jackdavinci 05:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Sayid wasn't a candidate, so he was able to kill himself. And Sawyer did cause Sun's death, but that has nothing to do with what I'm saying -- it's not how Sun died, it's how Jin died. Jin made a suicidal decision and carried it out, something a candidate could not have done. The bomb clearly did not kill him. I don't think it's theoretical at all. --Pogopark 05:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Sayid WAS a candidate. The person responsible for killing Sayid is another candidate, Sawyer, who tinkered with the bomb he shouldn't have. All who died on the sub died as a result of that candidates actions, unintentional as they were.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:30, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Uh, Sayid was a candidate. And, although I think it unlikely, Ji Yeon could be the Kwon candidate.--HaloOfTheSun 05:35, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
        • Ah, you may be right -- although he may not have been one at the point of his death. But that's irrelevant -- it's a fact that candidates cannot kill themselves. However, your point about Ji Yeon is very on point.--Pogopark 05:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • There is no way to know that Sun was the candidate based on the way she died. At the very least it is speculative and should NOT be included in the main article. --Roneman90 05:36, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Hahah you guys need to read better. It's not how Sun died, it's how Jin died. At the very least we do know that Jin was not a candidate.--Pogopark 05:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
        • You may be correct, but it is still speculation, and has not been proven to be fact. Therefore it should not be included in the main article.--Roneman90 05:46, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
          • Jin not being the candidate is now a known fact. Suicide = not a candidate. The writers couldn't have made it any clearer.Pogopark 05:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
            • Where are you getting this? Please stop posting your theories as known facts. Where in Ab Aeterno do the writers blatantly state a rule concerning suicide and the candidates? I'd really like to know, because I don't think that rule exists. True, we've seen the island prevent suicide (Michael in season 4 and Richard in "Dr. Linus"), but neither Michael or Richard are candidates. Sayid, a known candidate, sacrificed himself to save the others, proving suicide of candidates is possible. All in all, this theory really has no legs to stand on, no matter if we "read [it] better" or not.--Znils 06:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
            • No. Richard couldn't kill himself. That's a fact. If Richard couldn't kill himself, then Jack was not in danger. Jin didn't commit suicide. He chose to stay with his wife - "until death do you part," you know. That choice may have led to his death, but it is not clear that he would have survived if he left Sun. The point where you realize that it's too late is not a willful act of suicide. It is realization of the inevitable. (Jack Dutton 06:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
              • To quickly add, Richard couldn't "kill himself" because he was bestowed with the gift/ability to live forever... he couldn't die if he wanted too.. --ShadowSlave 07:01, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
                • First of all, is Richard a Candidate? He is Jacob's spokesperson, perhaps he is meant to be the spokesperson for the new Jacob, not a candidate himself. And secondly, Richard merely said HE couldn't kill HIMSELF, not some overall rule for everything on the island. Maybe this is a reference to the fact that Richard does not want to go to Hell. He considers the time he is spending alive his penance or something, and so it would all be for nothing if he committed suicide and went to Hell for that. Catholic guilt, you know? Linta 17:12, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

If Sawyer hadn't screwed with the bomb, then Jin wouldn't have had a decision to make. So sorry, Pogopark, but your theory is not the end all and be all. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   05:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

My problem with this theory is that... What one says suicide, the other says selfless act of love? Jin (you could argue) killed himself (suicide), or died for love.. And what was the revelation two weeks ago? LOVE is what is going to complete LOST. I think you read WAAYYY too far into this, and I thought the whole "Ji-Yeon Kwon/Aaron Austen" was being put on a pedestal as the Kwon/Austen (re-written) as possible candidates. I've been trying to bust the nut of-If I had to pick between Jin or Sun as the Kwon candidate, who would it be? My answer for that question would be Jin, but that's not what I'm posing here... My proof of your theory is what lies here. --ShadowSlave 06:42, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Look at the list of candidates. Locke - dude. Reyes - dude. Ford - dude. Jarrah - dude. Shepard - dude. Kwon? I would guess - dude. Jacob was a dude. MiB is a dude, at least twice. So, perhaps the "unspoken revelation" is that all the candidates are dudes. (Jack Dutton 06:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC))

  • lol I thought about that as soon as the list came out. It's an entertaining thought that's for sure. Episode 15 may give enough reason to believe in such a theory, but you must also keep in mind, that there are more than 6 people on that list... The lighthouse I'm sure would give us at least one last name that would direct us to a female character who could have been a candidate, so the list does not discriminate (in the beginning anyways). Come to think of it though (and I doubt that there is much in the scene[s]), recall all the Ji-Yeon and Aaron Austen/Littleton talks in Season 6, and ask yourself questions... How are they introduced? Are these characters given any or used as a device/purpose/specific context? Could be a start on something interesting between Ji-Yeon & Aaron in the sideways world (eg. "they are both currently unborn" is a good one) --ShadowSlave 06:56, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Jin didn't choose to die or commit suicide, he chose not to leave his wife. Dying was just a secondary consequence.Fang7124 07:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

CLOSED, I think this discussion has been beaten to death (get it?). --ShadowSlave 07:05, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

No mention of maybe the Kwon candidate is their daughter? Hence, both of them can die. Danh916 12:38, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • Candidates die all the time. There is a cave and a lighthouse full of their names. This "candidates can't die" thing is the new "everyone needs a constant" argument.--Crabapple 14:36, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think it is being referred to based on Jacob-touched candidates. PhillyPartTwo 15:00, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Candidate

So... Can anyone explain the title of this episode to me? It seems as though be the end of it we should know who the candidate is, but if they said it then I didn't catch it.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  04:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • Probably just a misleading title refering to Jack's speech to Locke at the beginning. --LeoChris 04:49, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I felt that at the end when Jack is standing on his own, he looks like he is praying or something like that, or speaking to the above, and I kinda thought, he's talking to Jacob and he wants to be the candidate. That was something that I was thinking when I watched it. Obviously not a fact. --Phryrosebdeco23 04:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sayid said it. He told Jack to find Desmond, because he would need him, because "It's going to be you."Superfresh 06:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • It's a double-meaning. We all know what the candidate on the Island is all about. Jack starts the episode by asking John to be a candidate for an experimental procedure. Jack concludes the episode by asking John to be a candidate for letting go. He wants John to teach him how to stop punishing himself for the stuff that happens. Reading that definition back onto the Island, maybe THE candidate will be the one that is willing to let it all go, the one ready to stop punishing himself and to stop punishing the MiB. It seems that Jack is ready for that.(Jack Dutton 06:54, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
  • They're unaware that we're watching them on a TV show, and at the end of the episode, there are 8 remaining living people connected to Flight 815: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Claire and Walt and the two babies. So see, it's the Candid Eight.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:25, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • Well, ya. If you don't count Rose, Bernard, Cindy, Zach, Emma, anyone of the other tail section survivors, and possibly Vincent. PhillyPartTwo 15:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Music box - worth an UQ

I don't think there is any really big meaning behind the box. It just means that Christian sung her that song in the FST as well and wanted her to remember it. LOST-Malachi 12:10, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Catch a Falling Star plays when the MIB clears the temple.--Pittsburghmuggle 12:16, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
I pretty much took it the same way. Christian used to sing her that song when she was little, but Claire just

doesn't remember it. I'm not 100% sure, but isn't that the music box that Sayid fixed for Russo when she captured him?Muggle68 16:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Rousseau's music box had a ballerina and played a different song. See: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rousseau%27s_music_box (Mirth23 16:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC))

Production Notes

As of the end of this episode, Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Claire and Walt are the only main characters from Season 1 who are still alive in the original timeline.

Aaron Littleton and Ji Yeon Kwon are still alive, though I can understand that this is merely a quibble. Aaron was born on the island and Je Yeon was only there in utero. However, back on those six - that's the same number that they lied about surviving the crash, and now there really ARE six survivors of the events surrounding the crash of flight 815. I thought that was interesting. --Pittsburghmuggle 12:12, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Rose Nadler is not dead, is she? Gfrast 14:55, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

    • I don't think anyone would qualify Rose or Bernard (or Vincent) as main characters.
      • Rose, Aaron and Ji Yeon aren't main characters.. --Verdath 16:24, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Jin & Sun

Posted this on Sun's talk page as well, but in my tiredness, realized this would be better ._. I may be out of bounds here, but I feel confused. We do not know for sure Jin and Sun are dead. We do know Sayid is, cause well, he had 4 C4 Bricks explode while holding him. Frank we do not know, and his page reflects that. The only thing that supports they are dead is the hands drifting apart. However, the rest is left up to ASSUMPTION. For example, instead of some people assuming that they're dead, I choose to assume something like Frank found more Oxygen tanks, and went back with extras to see if everyone was ok, found Sun and Jin, gave them tanks, then Jin let go of Sun to work with Frank to get the bars off of her. Just because we did not see Frank does not mean he wasn't there. There's many other assumptions that could be the case, so, I'm wondering: Isn't the Wiki jumping the gun by assuming that Jin and Sun are dead? Nothing has been stated as FACT that they are in fact, dead. And before someone asks: This isn't a theory, I'm simply pointing out we do not have concrete evidence they are dead, only assumptions. Jack also assumed they were dead. This article as well as their character articles state they are dead, which is why this is here and not in theories. Now, in my head, every time a main character has died, we have either seen their full body, or at least their head. We saw neither on Jin & Sun, just part of their body and hands, which can easily be explained as to why they separated, as pointed out above. Myzou 12:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • IMO that is absurd. We were given all the dramatic signals. This was goodbye, a sweet, sacrificial goodbye. Really - what purpose have Jin and Sun played for a long, long time. Besides we SAW thir DEAD hands drift apart UNDERWATER with Sun still trapped. What is it you want? (there is always the other timeline anyway).    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   12:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I agree, I think the writer's were trying to make it very, very clear that Jin and Sun were actually dead, to abolish ahead of time any theories that they were actually alive and would come back. Clamshell 13:18, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • That may be the biggest stretch i have ever read. I don't want them to be dead either but we have to accept they are gone. All 4 characters served their purposes to the island.
    • I'm not saying they aren't dead. I'm simply saying that people are jumping the gun on saying they are dead. IMO, if they are considered dead, then Frank should be listed as dead as well, as last we saw him, he was knocked down with a submarine door on top of him, when said submarine sank, and not seen with the 4 that escaped. Myzou 14:19, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Dead. Hatchbanger 14:26, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • I agree with Myzou - Frank is dead as well as Sun & Jin. --LOSTinDC 16:21, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Jin and Sun are dead, 100% certain. There is absolutely nothing in the episode to suggest otherwise. I give Frank about a 15% chance of surviving, because it was a really quick cutaway after he was hit by the door, but if he was alive, he would have had to make it back to land in order to stay that way, and we didn't see him wash up on the beach. The wiki will say what it says, but I will assume Frank dead until/unless I find out otherwise. --Frakkin Toaster 17:22, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, at least we now know that Jin and Sun are 100% dead for 100% sure: "Lindelof recognizes that there’s something “brutal” about killing Jin and Sun just one episode after their long-awaited reunion — which, he says, is exactly what made the lovers such an apt choice for making a statement about Fake Locke’s malevolence. “At least they got to die in each other’s arms, so they’d have some sense of victory,” he says." popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate PhillyPartTwo 18:04, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • And in the same article: "Yunjin Kim: “They were kept separate for so long, and then they came together to die together.”" and "Daniel Dae Kim: “They were the Romeo and Juliet of the show, and the fact they didn’t have a happy ending does make me sad.” PhillyPartTwo 18:07, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

UQ Discussion

  • I have removed "Is Frank dead?" and variations. Frank was crushed by a steel bulkhead door, Drowned , unrescued, buried in the Ocean. Furthermore his dramatic usefulness was pretty well nil, he no longer served a purpose anyway. People who think he is alive need to come up with an explanation.
    • I think it's a valid question (although I also think the likely answer is 'he's dead'). Sayid clearly blew up holding the bomb. We saw Sun and Jin go limp. Frank, on the other hand, got hit by the door, but we didn't see the outcome. Take Jin surviving the freighter explosion as another example of someone on the show surviving an "obvious" death. It's not absolutely clear what happened. Also, I don't think "dramatic usefulness" should be a valid argument to remove a UQ, but if you want to go there, don't forget that Frank is still the only person who can fly the Aijira plane. (Mirth23 16:53, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
    • Entirely different circumstances to Jin - for a start it was actually believable that he got out of the explosion, not so Frank. As to flying the Plane - I bet Widmore flies! Frank ain't flying no plane with a crushed chest. Also there are 3 eps left - dead is dead. Further more we did see him die - that door was half a ton!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:13, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
    • CK: I disagree with you with regard to relative believability. We didn't see Frank die. Frank got smacked by the door then the door kept flying and did not "crush his chest" (go watch it on abc.com). It wasn't even clear whether it knocked him out. We know there were emergency oxygen tanks on the sub. We've seen people come back from much more 'obvious' deaths on the show. Arguments like "I bet Widmore flies" and "there's 3 episodes left" completely beg the question as to whether or not Frank's fate is uncertain. (Mirth23 17:52, May 5, 2010 (UTC))
  • I have replaced "How did MIB know sub sank, that there are survivors?" and variations because I can't see how it is not a valid answerable, question.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   16:43, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • replaced "What is the meaning of the music box that Christian Shephard left for Claire?". It was removed because there is an established history with the song it plays - "Falling Star" - but that is in the OT. Why is this a deal in the FST. Espec since we don't know the Christian history in FST, and why make a whole scene around the Music box - for the box, the mirror, the Song. It isn't clear to me.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:13, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Why is the Man in Black constantly referred to as "Locke"?

It's just the constant use of italics makes it very jarring to read, and it was consistently stated as 'The Man in Black' until the previous episode recap. It's the character official name as designated by Darlton, we should stick to it in all episodes post-The Incident. The relevance of moments like the pivotal scene when Jack mentions Locke and pushes The Man in Black into the water are completely lost jumping back between "Locke" and Locke. ==WhoShotWaldo

  • firstly - please place your edits at the end. Secondly to answer you question - because we have established calling him "Locke" or Locke since it was clear that he is the MIB. Please see the extensive discussion in the discussion pages over a number of weeks. It is not an ideal solution but one of the things we try to do is be consistent - and we have consistently called him "Locke" after linking to MIB in the first reference the whole season. Next - he looks like Locke, next Man in Black has been used, I think ONCE in the script only, thirdly ALL the characters refer to him as "Locke", next Man in Black is harder to read and use in a decent sentence than "Locke", next he doesn't have a name (I like Nemesis but it just doesn't stick) and finally most of us are sick of talking about something we have discussed ad nauseum and have stuck with for so long. Blame thewriters for keeping his name secret, we may find out his name in the last 5 minutes of the show (not a spoiler - I have no idea)    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:33, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Final Four

  • Yes I know technically, Claire and Walt (and potentially others) still remain - but from the closing beach scene with Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hugo - it made me think that these are the last four. Does anyone think it is worth mentioning that these four are the same as the Others list for Michael from Season 2? --LOSTinDC 17:32, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

What Locke says in the hospital: "Press the button"

Did anyone else hear Locke say Boone's name as his first muttering in the hospital? [back from commmercial] (beeping) Locke: Boone... Jack: Mr. Locke, are you awake?

etc. Imbeanie 18:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)imbeanie


  • Someone thinks Locke talking in his sleep says "Boone .... Press the button". Not only would that not make any sense since Boone never pressed the button, but he doesn't say it. I have re-listened a few times and I don't hear anything like that. I hear something like "Mmgmm" - ie a sleepy mumble b4 saying something. His lips don't touch to make a B - he just doesn't say Boone. Does anyone else think he does? It would be very misleading to put this in with so little which suggests that it is right.   Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:43, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
  • Just because Boone never pushed the button doesn't mean Locke didn't say it; there is not necessarily causality between his remarks. His other uttering about believing him came from his suicide note, and so the three together: referencing Boone, the hatch computer, and his suicide, are all significant moments in Locke's life. Imbeanie 18:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)imbeanie
  • Perhaps coincidently, the Transcript page ends just before the scetion we are discussing! Imbeanie 18:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)imbeanie
    • Please sign! 4 tildes! Easy. You can go back and do it now. As to substance - you are right - my arguments are not watertight. They are, however secondary - the main thing is he doesn't say the word "Boone"! He doesn't mouth a "B" and the rest of his mumble is not "oone". I've been wrong before, but having re-listened I'm pretty sure.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   17:59, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
      • Sorry about the signing, I'm not nearly as interested in computers as I am in LOST, and wasn't aware. Imbeanie 18:09, May 5, 2010 (UTC)imbeanie

Sayid

So looking at Sayid's story arc from the time of his "resurrection" at the Temple, to his demise in The Candidate, I'm puzzled as to why they went through all the gyrations of Sayid dead, then alive, suspected of having the sickness, his apparent complete loss of emotion and feelings, etc. Then suddenly he's back to being good old Sayid again, electronics genius, analyzing bomb construction and such. It's as if the writers had something else in mind for him and suddenly changed course. Or maybe they did it as a deliberate diversion. Thoughts? Hatchbanger 18:23, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

  • I wondered that too, but think that it was his contact with Desmond at the well that brought the old Sayid back. Why we had to go through a lot of the stuff before.... I'm with you, it seems pretty convoluted. Imbeanie 18:27, May 5, 2010 (UTC)imbeanie
Advertisement