Re: Pushing The Button And The Plane Crash
In an interview with Newsweek before the season 2 finale, Carlton Cuse stated the following: "We are going to tell you why the plane crashed...We're going to explain what happens if you don't push the button.". Therefore:
- For the time being, it should be considered firm that we now know the direct cause of the plane crash and what happens if the button isn't pushed. There may be other factors at play, for instance outside forces that made Desmond leave the hatch etc, but as far as the direct cause of the crash, it is known. Anything else should be considered speculation at this point.--Bernini 16:23, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
I disagree with making this entry sound absolutely conclusive... Not to mention, the new version posted by Bernini omits a lot of good info that was there before I touched it. Here's a link to the version with my edits and the other stuff which is omitted in the current version http://lostpedia.com/index.php?title=Push_the_Button&oldid=43063 --Cleast 16:41, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
Also, the new version is messy (ie. duplicate images at bottom, omitted sections). Up for edit, anyone? --Cleast 16:42, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
I agree some should be put back.. I just did a quick revision back to the last version prior to your overhaul for the sake of simplicity.--Bernini 16:43, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
Overhaul...Overstatement? I actually didn't change very much at all. I mostly just changed grammar and sentence structure to make things more clear, and I changed the wording in several places to reflect that nothing has been 100% proven. I would be satisfied if the wording was changed in "my" version (it's hardly mine, I only added a bit) in a few places to reflect that this is what was suggested by the season finale, and here are the ways it can be interpreted with the info we currently have (ie. Given the dates on the log printout, Desmond speculates that the system failure he caused on Sept. 22, 2004 in turn caused the crash of Flight 815). And, yes, I agree that we do know what happens when the button isn't pushed up until the failsafe is activated. If this is made clear in the article, I'd be fully satisfied. --Cleast 17:11, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
Yeah, I skipped back a few revisions, so calling it "your" overhaul is a bit of an exaggeration. As far as Desmond speculating about the cause of the crash, we still have to accept that the system failure did lead to the crash, especially in the context of the producers' comments. --Bernini 17:20, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
But it should still be called speculation, because within the show, it is speculation. Sorry to be a little argie bargie here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argie_bargie if you aren't familiar with the slang), but I feel like I have a fair point :) --Cleast 17:29, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
Yes... within the show it is speculation, and in the context of the "Lost" mythos it will never be 100% certain. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't accept it as fact that the "system failure" was the cause of the plane crash, especially given the other information --Bernini 17:40, 26 May 2006 (PDT)
I was going to work on this myself the other night, thinking the revisions overall had stuffed up the article. I agree that speculation were presented as fact in the newer revisions, and some of the information in the last edit I worked on had been removed in Peephole's revision (earliest I see a definite overhaul). The newer versions are, I'm sorry to say, a bit of a pig's breakfast in jumping around from subtopic to subtopic and back again. I've cleaned it up a bit again. LOSTonthisdarnisland 01:49, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
Was my version that bad it needed to be reverted completely?--Peephole 04:23, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
LOSTonthisdarnisland, I like what you did with the article in terms of speculation vs. fact, thanks for clearing that up. I think that some of the stuff that was the version before (some of Peep's stuff, perhaps?) still deserves mention... Maybe in a separate article? I'm not sure that the name of the article (Push the Button) is appropriate any more. Should it just be called "The Button", with a section at the beginning defining the act and procedure of pushing the button (like in Peep's version, with my minor sentence structure changes), and everything else following below? --Cleast 15:59, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
- I'm not sure; 'The button' redirects, and this is the phrase commonly used for the action. I removed bits about not using the computer to chat, because that is better suited on the computer article than the button one. What if we merged this with the Swan computer article and any other articles related to the computer area, for one good article about the entire system and how it works, button, computer, timer, etc. Thoughts?
- No offence Peep, it's just that your revisions were not easily edited to reintroduce the bits you chopped out, and they tended to jump around, as I mentioned before. The best method, I feel, is to approach it chronologically, rather than just leading right in to the conseqences of failure before explaining the basics of the action first. -- LOSTonthisdarnisland 17:35, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
- I would keep the swan computer seperate. --Peephole 10:41, 28 May 2006 (PDT)
- I actually think that merging with the Swan Computer article is a good idea. They are inextricably linked, after all. I think that that would give access to all the relevant info in one place. --Cleast 16:09, 28 May 2006 (PDT)
Wait a second...remember when all the knives and forks and darts were getting sucked by the electromagnetic force? It seemed like every single thing that was made of metal was getting sucked in. What about in the plane? Yes, the plane itself got sucked in, but wouldnt peoples watches, belts, jewelry, and other items from the plane get pulled in too?
Added some links to the Hieroglyphics page for ya.
--Jabrwocky7 17:15, 16 February 2006 (PST)
--Jabrwocky7 17:23, 16 February 2006 (PST)
Sweet, thanks Jabrwocky7. You are absolutely right.
--Emory 06:12, 17 February 2006 (PST)
I'm new here so I'm not exactly sure what the etiquette is on adding new theories. I have a theory about the buttom that I don't think I've heard before.. should I just go ahead and add it or should we discuss the theory to see if it is at all viable?
--Dujoducom 22:13, 9 March 2006 (PST)
Add, it's just a theory. Discussions if necessary can come later. --skks 08:41, 12 March 2006 (PST)
is it correct that this articel is a stub? --Cool Man 0912 10:47, 6 April 2006 (PDT)
Apologies up front: I'm new. Does this or any other page cover the theory that the pressing of the button is an analogy for watching the show. "Do this every 108 minutes" equals "Watch LOST every week." "Do this or something vague but really bad will happen" equals "Miss an episode and you'll be sorry." Just a thought that occured to me watching the first episode of this season.
--RazorInTheApple 01:32, 25 April 2006 (PST)
- episode of lost are excluding adverts about 44minutes long, so i don't get it - Mikey
- Um, that was a joke, right? --RazorInTheApple 16:06, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
- Is your theory a joke? It doesn't make a lick of sense. Cajuncook 16:13, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
- His point is that there isn't a correlation between 44 minutes and 108 minutes, so it is a poor comparison. If you are speaking in the general sense that just as the Losties have to push the button, we have to watch the show, that doesn't correlate very well either. Putting all that aside, this page is for discussing what pushing the button means to the story, not what subtle marketing tactics the creators may or may not have used. --chrisbliss18 16:14, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
- Um, that was a joke, right? --RazorInTheApple 16:06, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
- Should this article be merged with the mostly incomplete Station 3 Protocol? Or are we keeping that article for purposes of having a consistent series of protocol article for each station? 06:15, 23 May 2006 (PDT)
Why Push The Button?
All I can say until the episode is over is just.... WOW Nickvd 19:33, 24 May 2006 (PDT)
Dead Man's Switch
I had added some content a while back under 'theories' saying that the reason the button can't be automated is that it's a Dead Man's Switch. Since we still don't know why a human had to press the button, would it be acceptable for me to put it back in? The edit that removed it said that it removed items to "eliminate speculation and theories contrary to producers' public statements", so obviously if the producers have said this isn't the case then I'm up the wrong alley :) --Atiaxi 06:51, 15 October 2006 (PDT)
It's a good thing they kept logs of when the system failed. That way the islanders can verify that the drug plane full of heroin was also pulled in by the electromagnetic field (someone didn't push the button). --Blakeops 12:32, 25 May 2006 (PDT)
- Unless they were destroyed in Swan. LOSTonthisdarnisland 17:52, 25 May 2006 (PDT)
- Maybe that was "the incident" mentioned? Do we know when the drug plain started? Umm... and we don't know where the log started counting... After not pushing the button, someone in The Pearl might just print out the log and sent it thru the pipe... Well it could be found in the jungle then... --NPORTERN 04:38, 27 May 2006 (PDT)
- The incident was elctro-magnetism, as Kelvin said. I think Desmond would have notice if it said SYSTEM FAILURE for ten rows twice. --CaptainInsano
Passing of time and sleep cycles
I find it interesting that to the best of our knowledge the button was always guarded by two people at most, often one. The orientation video for Swan also specifies a crew of two, implying that the intent was always to have then dealing with slight constraints for their sleep (108 minutes is almost two hours).
A crew of two would by necessity average no more than 316 minutes (just over five hours) of sleep at a time.If I am not mistaken, current research suggests that following such a routine would lead to mental inbalances of some kind. Perhaps that is what Swan was meant to go though and what Pearl was meant to observe: the effects of abnormal sleep on the two staffers as the months passed by. Luis Dantas 22:28, 7 August 2006 (PDT)
- Whether it is day or night doesn't matter when you are underground. There are 1440 minutes in the day each of the crew should be able to get 316 minutes. One of the crew members could say "Hi I am going to sleep you punch in the code the next the 3 times and then I'll punch them in the 3 times after that, so we both can get some sleep.--CaptainInsano
- I've downloaded a fan made version of the button, and I've been pushing it for a week now. It's not such a great constraint for my sleep, I just wake up, enter the numbers and go back to sleep in a matter of seconds, doesn't really have any negative side effects that I know of. Of course, if you want to be absolutely sure not to sleep through the alarm, you'd have to stay awake, but I'd think, if not the first alarm, the one during the last minute would surely wake you up. Though sleep deprivation might not be the case, I do agree the unnatural routine can have effects worth observing by the Pearl. MrEvers 09:23, 11 January 2007 (GMT+1)
- This may be of interest. The old minuteman missle silos had two-man crews and someone had to be on duty 24-7. It describes how they dealt with the schedule. "And at that time they didn’t allow any kind of t.v. sets or anything like that down there. It was just the crew. And, as I said before, there was one cot there and one crew member could go to sleep. And usually the person who had the graveyard shift--the midnight to six o’clock in the morning shift--usually that person would crawl into the cot right after dinner. Usually we’d have dinner right around five o’clock, so that person’d get in the cot and go to sleep from five, and then from five until about midnight. And then the deputy, at midnight then we’d swap off. And, you’d get into, it was like a hot bunk and you’d sleep until about six o’clock in the morning. That was generally what took our tour.” Dharmatel4 15:18, 6 April 2007 (PDT)
One of the "unanswered questions" for this subject is why Ben wanted Locke to not press the button. I think that it's fairly obvious: They knew about The Pearl, and probably all the stations. Ben knew what would happen if they didn't push the button, that it would destroy the beacon and eliminate contact with the outside world. He needed Locke to do it so the Others wouldn't suspect him--the same reason he needed Locke to blow up the sub. It's fairly clear that Ben set it up so Locke would go to The Pearl, lose his faith, and not push the button. Willo 03:38, 16 April 2007 (PDT)
- In support of this theory, we find out in Expose that Ben did in fact know about the Pearl.
I think push the button is almost childish. I think we should have it be "Resetting the timer". --Rhcm123 16:39, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
- I agree, I like "Resetting the timer". A redirect could be set up and make mention of "pushing the button" in the article. -- 22:59, 12 October 2007 (PDT)
- Also agree. I've added a rename template, and we'll see what people think... --Wintermute 09:52, 14 December 2007 (PST)
- I think it should be renamed to Station 3 protocol as it is more formal and makes more sense than "Resetting the timer". --SilvaStorm
- Recently I was thinking about just "Protocol". But "Station 3 protocol" might be good for specificity, or "Swan protocol"; although so far, we don't have any other protocols to distinguish it from. Either way, I'm now leaning toward using the word "protocol". Nouns or noun phrases are preferable for article titles over verbs or verb phrases. -- 17:43, 22 December 2007 (PST)
- What purpose does this article even serve? It would seem like the contents belong in Swan or Swan Computer. Dharmatel4 20:44, 11 January 2008 (PST)
- I agree that this section needs to be renamed, but it should be something that sounds coherent, not a command using a present-tense verb. I agree that this is probably better suited to be combined with the Swan Station page, or else shortened to "The Button" or "Swan Station Button." --
24-year-old female Lost fanatic living in Kate's home state.
Lover of all things Jack Shepherd. 15:50, 25 January 2008 (EST)
- I dont really see the value of this article regardless of its name. Everything in the article is already said elsewhere. Dharmatel4 14:22, 25 January 2008 (PST)
I think that "pushing a button" is a recurring theme on this show, besides Desmond and the others relentlessly pushing "The Button", we have Charlie dying to flip the yellow blinking switch, and don't forget about Sawyer's amusing button! Be smarter than the bears and get a buscuit, be an Alabama hick and get an electric shock! Is this an ongoing BF Skinner/Ivan Pavlov thing? Sithboy 22:14, 2 June 2007 (PDT)
This line is inaccurate. In "Man of Science, Man of Faith"'s audio commentary, Bryan Burk clearly says that Walt's line was "Don't push the button. Button bad." However, the line attributed by this site conveys the exact opposite meaning of the real one ("push the button... don't push the button... bad" = "Not pushing it is bad"). Is there a reason for this oversight? --AlexAx 13:17, 9 July 2007 (PDT)
Why not script it?
As we have seen they are using an Apple ][ and other parts and such. The DHARMA Initiative clearly could've automated this process with or without the computer. Why didn't they? Because then abc wouldn't have been able to make a show. But seriously, why? So I should stop beginning sentences with coordinating conjunctions. But bye bye. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Loganrdean (talk • contribs) 2010-02-08T21:28:44.
- First off, new messages go at the bottoms of talk pages, and you should always sign your messages. Second, Darlton are on record as saying that the DHARMA Initiative purposefully left the input up to humans, as they wouldn't want to put the fate of the world in a computer's hands, and end up with a situation where the computer controlled the humans, a la HAL in 2001. Yes, this is a lame explanation. But that's what it is. 07:51, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
"Push the Button" is not a noun. I think it should be changed to "Pushing the Button". Ocie14 22:47, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Agree. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 23:00, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Disagree... JK ... Push the Button sounds stupid Metroid101 23:06, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Agreeee - Julietfan2626 Talk Blogs 23:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Yep. --Jf518 00:01, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Do it. --LOST-The Cartographer 01:28, September 5, 2010 (UTC)
- ok Dogandpanda 18:14, September 7, 2010 (UTC)