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Abortion Question

I have been curious why abortion is never mentioned as a possibility. Some have suggested it has been addressed, that someone "knew the risks" and went on anyway. Also, proposing that Ben wouldn't allow it. Does anyone know how this has been addressed. I recently watched DOC and was struck by the idea that that was not a possibility to save Sun's life. Sun wanted to go with Locke and not the freighter, Juliet makes here stay by telling Jin about her affair. But she never mentions the possibility that since the baby will die anyway, an abortion saving the life of the mother is and obvious choice. Is it a production error, or is there a reason. Harcourt 02:53, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa. I can't believe I never thought of that. --- Balk Of Fametalk 09:25, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
Aborting eitherSabine's or Sun's pregnancies would not have contributed to advancing the plot.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:16, April 26, 2010 (UTC)
Abortion wasn't necessary as Sun still had a means to leave the Island. Also, as seen in Ji-Yeon, Sun wasn't entirely convinced of Juliet's claims anyway, so was unlikely to attempt an abortion. Moreover, given that the pregnancies had unusually devastating effects to mothers due to the Island's otherworldly properties, it's not clear to we the audience what the medical consequences of attempting to abort those pregnancies would be. The medical fragility of the mothers - the very fact that the mother's bodies were affected from conception and were mutually affected by the outcome of the baby - is certainly cause for concern as to the effects of an abortion. Juliet herself said that the Island makes the mothers' bodies turn on the pregnancy already, which has adversely devastating effects on the mother's health. So if the Island itself is already killing the mothers by terminating the pregnancy, what then of a medical procedure terminating the pregnancy on the Island? It's also not clear if the Others had the proper equipment for an abortion anyway. Additionally, I personally doubt this is a production error they overlooked, as abortion is such an overwhelmingly prominent and controversial issue in culture, it's highly unlikely that the prospect never crossed any of the writers' mind. MrLockeIsAWarrior 16:35, September 10, 2018 (UTC)

Relevant info

I propose that this article should only document pregnancies discussed or shown on the show. For example, I don't think the fact that Charlie's mother was once pregnant with Charlie is relevant, since it was never discussed in Lost.

Agreed? -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 17:31, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree, otherwise the graphs would be too complicated, with the mother and father of Locke, Kate, Jack, Claire and Sawyer etc. It isn't needed--Phil (talk) 17:33, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree but... had anyone actually been doing otherwise? --Jackdavinci 23:43, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

  • Yes, check the history. A bunch of unseen pregnancies were added (Charlie's birth, Jack's birth, etc), but they have been reverted. -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 07:10, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Purpose of article

As of right now, the article is covering both individual pregnancies (the later sections and the table) and general pregnancy/fertility related issues of the people on the Island (the first section). Does anyone disagree with continuing to move in this direction? Dharmatel4 23:16, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree.--Ghtx 11:15, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Proposed new table format

It looks like we could copy the table format from Military, and use something like this:

Mother Father Notes
Cassidy
Cassidy Phillips
Sawyer-mini
James "Sawyer" Ford
Clem
Kate-mini
Katherine Austen
Kevin callis
Kevin Callis
Sun-mini
Sun-Hwa Kwon
Male
Unknown
TWT3

How does this look? -- Dagg talk contribs4 8 21:49, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

I like this idea.--Phil (talk) 12:10, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I prefer the current template. Its smaller and says the facts. We don't necessarily need a huge template, just a mother, possible father, result, child name. Simple --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:40, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Test Results

I know it's just a result of the format of the table, but it seems a bit odd to have "pregnancy test result" for many of the characters for which we didn't see them take a test. We only saw Claire, Kate, Rachel and Sun's experiences firsthand. How can we assume that Danielle, for example, ever took a test? Bellemichelle 08:40, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

We do not know she took a test, but we know she was pregnant, which is what the table is for--Phil (talk) 12:11, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Yes, I get that, but as a column in the table, "test results" is odd to have when we're not sure that all the pregnant women used pregnancy tests. It might seem a bit nitpicky, but since we didn't see a bunch of characters take tests, I don't want to presume. Bellemichelle 12:55, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
Oops, to answer my own concern, I see it's been changed to "positive pregnancy". That works! Bellemichelle 12:56, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Redundancies

Section one of this article lists "observations" of pregancies, section two lists "occurrences" and includes a table, and section three lists "case studies." Why does this article need to mention four times that Claire was pregnant? I propose cleaning it up into just two main sections (as suggested earlier by Dharmatel4): one about the "pregnancy sickness" and one about all of the pregnancies. --Ghtx 11:18, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree, case studies seems to just have a lot of repetition from occurrences (which IMO is a better written section anyway). I would just merge and remove the whole case study section. Those quote marks are also a little irritating under every case study. I do prefer that new template infobox listing pregnancies though, and the ticks and crosses are cool --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:21, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
OK. I deleted the "case studies".--Ghtx 14:06, 7 May 2007 (PDT)

Immune disorders and invading fetuses???

Where does this information about Juliet finding a cure, but the cure causing an "immune disorder" and fetuses to act like "invaders", come from? As far as I know, women on the Island who got pregnant died, and they brought Juliet in to fix that. I don't remember anything about how Juliet's cure caused the women to die. Am I missing something or is someone adding conjecture? --Ghtx 11:53, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

There's a lot of conjecture in the article, and I think people need clarification on what we do and do not know. --Nickb123 (Talk) 11:58, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
I think the issue is that there's confusion about what people see as the problem with the women. My personal understanding is that for some reason, the Island causes the pregnant woman's body to attack the fetus and all that, which can kill both mother and child. However, some are drawing on Alpert's example scan he first showed Juliet when introducing Mittelos Bioscience, of a woman in her 20s with a 70+ reproductive system. The reason I don't support this is that they were getting pregnant without Juliet's help, but kept dying after becoming pregnant. Thus, the former about the foreign invader thing seems more likely. If necessary, we could do a school of thought thing under "Island properties" subheading or something. I would draft but there seems like 3 people in an edit war at the moment so I'll wait til later --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:09, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

"they were getting pregnant without Juliet's help, but kept dying after becoming pregnant"

Where was this established? Dharmatel4 12:12, 17 April 2007 (PDT)


As far as I know, everything in the article is covered in the episodes.

  • She is a fertility expert. Her research on the outside was in getting women like her sister with damaged reproductive systems (by cancer treatment in that case) pregnant. She was brought to the island to do for them what she did for her sister.
  • She says "the mothers body turns on the baby and treats it as a foreign invader" in One of Us. She may be lying, but it makes some sense.
  • The only thing Juliet is known to be lying about is the drug she administers to Claire. That does not appear to be her drug. Its the DHARMA Initiative drug that Ethan gave to Claire and Desmond took at the Swan.
  • Juliet's fertility treatment did not cause anyone to die. But it uncovered a second medical problem when the women became pregnant that led to death. They can become pregnant now, but they die during pregnancy.

If anyone has questions or wants cites for specific things in the article, list them out and I'll do my best to answer them. Dharmatel4 12:12, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I've outlined the article as two separate possible issues. We all know the second, cannot give birth and dying, is the main one, but there is some evidence of an infertility issue I'll concede (though I personally disagree with it being the "problem" Ben speaks of, I have to be objective). I'm gonna just finish off the main bit, then I suggest we consider whether to get rid of that case study thing --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:27, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Look, at this point just get rid of it. Every sentance now argues against the point it was trying to make. Its worse than useless. Dharmatel4 12:49, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Well I'd like to hear other user comments, particularly those who raised it in the first place. --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:53, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
I raised the issue in the first place when I rewrote the first section of the article yesterday. Could you please at least consider getting rid of or modifying the second paragraph:

"It has not been explicitly stated that this problem was solved by Juliet's research, or indeed even actually existed, but we know that while Juliet was on the Island, women were dying after becoming pregnant, suggesting that the problem was no longer an issue, if ever it was to begin with."

  • The "indeed even actually existed" should be removed because its a negative speculation partially countered by what was shown in actual episodes.
  • The rest of the material is simply stating what is going to be said in the next paragraph anyway.
  • redundantly saying "if ever it was to begin with" is really bad wording. Its just piling on to say that someone doesn't agree with what is said at all.

Considering that I've now given up on everything else, can you at least meet me halfway on this? Dharmatel4 13:22, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

The main reason it was merged into the section previous to where you want it is cause it confounded with the facts. Its easier to give it a separate area like I did than to add a debateable point in a section thats trying to clarify things. For example, at the moment the whole DHARMA drug and Juliet drug confounds the main text which is supposedly making sense of things. I wanna see other user comments before there's any big removing tbh --Nickb123 (Talk) 13:41, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Where is Claire seen injected with Juilet's drug?

Where is Claire seen to be injected with Juilet's drug? As far as I've looked, everything she was injected with was the Dharma Initiative drug same as at the Swan. On the beach, Juliet was not telling the truth given that those are Dharma bottles with the same markings as before. It can't be Juilet's drug. Dharmatel4 12:41, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Right but when she says about her serum "Ethan was administering the injections". And to be fair, you don't even know that Juliet didn't keep her serum in the DHARMA bottles or something. We know she did make some kind of drug to keep the women alive during pregnancy, and Claire was a control case conceiving off-island. Her story, though in parts a story like Mikhail's, like Ben's, does seem to have elements of truth --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:45, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
The vials Ethan injected her with are labelled "CR 4-81516-23 42". Same number as in the Swan. Anything is possible I guess, but its unlikely that anyone would prepare new medication in old bottles with wrong labels and no other indication of changed content. Dharmatel4 14:18, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

During the beach injection scene, the bottles are not visible on screen (at least not on non-high def). During the kit recovery scene at the tree, the Dharma logo is not visible on the bottles, as they were in the flashback/flashback scene to "the Staff" with Ethan injecting Claire. Juliet most likely injected Claire neither with her drug nor with Dharma Rx-1, but rather with a 3rd drug to counteract whatever was activated in the implant.--Eyeful Tower 15:44, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

Henrieta

Should Henrieta, mentioned in the other woman, be added to the list of pregnant women? Congested 21:17, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Punishment

There's a section on the theories page entitled Punishment. It does not deal with Pregnancies, so I don't think it should be there. However, I don't think it should be trashed, either. I can't think of a good place to move it. Any ideas?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 09:32, 27 July 2008 (PDT)

Disregard, please. There's been a cleanup.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 10:43, 29 July 2008 (PDT)

Sperm count, what?!

when did they say that on the show? Four4elements 06:46, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

In "D.O.C.", Juliet tells Sun about the increased sperm counts.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:51, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Ethan's wife

In the Missing Pieces episode "Jack Meet Ethan," Ethan informs Jack that his wife died during childbirth. Just wondering why this was not included on this page? It can be assumed that his wife was one of the Others who died due to pregnancy complications. Quite possibly one of the ones we've seen in flashbacks. --Beema 05:02, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

  • I'm not convinced Ethan had a wife. His statement to Jack was during the period that he was pretending to be a survivor.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, I can kind of understand that, but personally I think he was telling the truth. It would make no sense for him to lie about something like that. The best way to get people to trust you is to relate yourself to them as a human being. The best stories to relate are those that are real. Jack had no reason to not believe Ethan at that point in time, so why bother telling Jack a story like that if it's made up? You lie when you have to, ie somebody asks you what you were doing on the plane. You don't go out of your way to make up stuff -- that's a good way to get caught in the lie. Anyways, it would also provide a good reason for why Ethan was so obsessed with the pregnancy issue, obsessed enough that he would go rouge from the Others on the whole Claire thing. He had a personal interest in it. --Beema 16:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Eternal Unanswered Question

Of all of the things left open in the show, the pregnant women dying was one I hoped they'd address before the end. Was made to appear as a major plot point for so long, even going so far as to have the three toed statue revealed as a fertility god and yet now it looks like we will never know what happened to make pregnancy lethal. One of my few disappointments from the finale. professorrev 15:04, May 24, 2010 (UTC

  • Also one of my pet peeves, although I think the sense is that Jacob chooses who comes to the Island. Why the mothers died instead on spontaneously aborting is perhaps a greater question. Punishment for trying?--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:41, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Although it wasn't explicitly explained, it seems that the problems came after The Incident (due to the fact that Ethan was born shortly before the Incident, and was the last known baby born there). I believe that therefore it was a result of the bomb going off and/or the discharge of electromagnetic energy. It seems to me that it might be related to the healing powers of the island. The body's natural inclination is to abort a fetus as a parasite (which, technically it is). Normally, there are checks and balances that (generally) prevent this, but somehow the island's properties throw off this balance, causing the body to reject the fetus. This doesn't quite explain why the mothers die too, but hey, I chalk that up to it being a TV show, not a New England Journal of Medicine research paper... --Litany42 04:10, May 26, 2010 (UTC)
    • The effects of pregnancy on a mother's body makes significant changes to her medical state. So the fact that the Island's properties turning the mother's body against the baby has mutual consequences against the mother's health as well is not really a surprise. MrLockeIsAWarrior 16:40, September 10, 2018

Split

I suggest reorganizing this article like the article death. "Pregnancy" ought form the main article. A second article should cover the "Pregnancy issue" on the island. A third should list all "Pregnancies". --- Balk Of Fametalk 02:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

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