The previous contents of this page have been moved here
as you can see i have reworked this article, i am sorry if this upsets anyone, but i will explain and then maybe you would agree. Basically i thought that an article such as "Animals" was simply a list of animals as a theme, or motif, not an actual article per se. So i have moved all the pages to, for example: "List_of_Recurring_Themes:HERE", this frees up pages for more open articles as opposed to lists etc.
i have also:
- alphabetised the list
- moved some of the longer lists to their own categories
- tidied these longer lists up as much as possible
- added comment to keep alphabetisation
i am sorry if i have moved any ongoing discussions, please feel free to move them back
I ended up moving them back, because honestly, the longer titles are cumbersome and anti-productive; people would not think to remember the full link "List of recurring themes:" when they do a wiki link. Also, when new theme pages are made up, often duplicates are made up because people are not aware of this format, and don't know to search for it. Usually the rule in wikis is the simpler, the better. We do all really appreciate the rest of the alphabetization/tidying/reorganization, though. --PandoraX 05:31, 24 October 2006 (PDT)
I Have a question. Why is there nothing written about the psychology theme? It seems to be pretty apparent and important. Also there should probably even be a subtheme of social psychology too. It is literally everywhere on the show. For instance, the social psychology stuff is obvious in the max candle tapes and his mention that the island is a social psychology experiment. It is also in the less obvious instances. The others are seen as an out group and fit perfectly into that schema. Not to mention the group dynamics within the groups in lost. The fact that jack fits in as a leader much in the way defined by social psychology. The torture by Sayid is all social psych. Sawyer as a con man employs alot of social psych. Furthermore the grander scheme of psychology in general seems important to ask, such as the allusion to multiple experiments. The obedience experiment of Milgram parrallels somewhat to the pushing of the button. The polar bear experiment. The memory game that was a clue on THF. The suggestion that DHARMA is an anagram for Department of Heuristics. To be honest the main reason I enjoy this show so much is because there is so much psychology in it and I am a psych major!
Well, I'm a psychiatrist myself, so I agree this is an overarching theme, but all you had to do was do a search and see we had that page, and link it. I'll add that now, so far it's been grouped with the other sciences, but I'll add a theme category. I think the thing with psych is 1) we do not know the Others' exact plans, and there's a lot of speculating how this theme really fits in, and 2) it's a very broad theme that covers many of the other themes, such as isolation/confinement/fear/economics, and so forth. --PandoraX 11:04, 28 October 2006 (PDT)
- How about "mental health"? From alcoholism and drug abuse to schizophrenia, there have always references to mental health issues. Since "White Rabbit", when Jack told Locke he was dellusional (from seeing his father on the Island), throughout season 2 eps such as "What Kate Did", "Fire+Water" and "Dave", up untill "Cabin Fever", with the titular cabin fever on the freighter and Hurley saying that only Locke, Ben and himsef can see Jacob's cabin because they are the craziest of all. bloodcandy
Just thought it was worth mentioning that Locke's scar is visible in his flashbacks (i.e before the crash) although I only noticed in the episode where he meets Rose in the airport. It may be that it is a real scar of the actor, though. --LostCat 04:54, 2 June 2006 (PDT)
- In the beginning of "Three Minutes" the Hatch floor is covered in the blood of the murdered Ana Lucia and Libby
- John Locke's shirt is almost completely red with blood after he carries Boone back from the fallen Beechcraft.
These are rediculous. Seeing red because there is blood present is not a recurring theme. --Keyes 01:34, 17 June 2006 (PDT)
If you were referring to every time someone say cut a finger I would agree but these are both instances where there's large amount of the substances. Furthermore there's an inherent psychological link between the color red and the substance blood. the first often brings the latter to mind.--Tricksterson 09:03, 17 June 2006 (PDT)
But they're such trivial things. Blood was on the floor of the hatch because someone had been shot with a gun. It's not a recurring theme. If there wasn't blood on the floor something would be very wrong with the universe. --Keyes 15:20, 17 June 2006 (PDT)
- I completely agree. I've been itching to remove it, but I think more people should decide than just two.--Miss Mary Mack 09:45, 22 June 2006 (PDT)
- Well, I'll happily make it three. "Blood is red" doesn't really count as a theme. --Wintermute 09:44, 20 July 2006 (PDT)
- The colour Red is just not prominant enough to be considered a theme (like say Black and White). Also, I would consider Scotland to be about as much a theme as Australia or the United States or any other nation that features regularly in Lost. Cull them both I say. --Kivipat
I think RED is significant. These are just not great examples. Characters wear solid shirts of red on occassion, and while the intent isn't clear it shouldn't be ignored.
- tried to condense some of these; i can actually agree with fear upon rewriting, but it might need a new heading (although WTH it should be, i have no idea)... others, like cancer, probable deserve a disambig page at best imo. --kaini. 21:59, 30 July 2006 (PDT)
- I wonder why fear is even there; a bunch a people crash land on a mysterious island with a cloud of black smoke that kills people and have encounters with a group of strange people, there's bound to be some fear in there. Whatever the case may be, I think the subheadings that are left (after we deleted like 3) are fine now that you've cleaned them up.. except for the brothers section; that's just silly. --Phmall 22:31, 30 July 2006 (PDT)
- Agreed, I think we could do away with "fear" and "pearls", random stuff like that. I've already cleared out some; "Leg Injuries" (silly, and covered in amputations page already). I think some are just under the impression that more is always better, which I don't agree with necessarily. Also... are kissing and sex really themes to the show? Or just "stuff that happens on the show, that I can list". --PandoraX 05:31, 24 October 2006 (PDT)
It is interesting that the philosopher Locke is an Enlightenment Empericist, while the character Locke describes himself more as a "man of faith". His relationship to Jack seems to illustrate the importance of a balance between faith and reason. --Immanuel k 22:21, 4 August 2006 (PDT)
Just curious - is anyone aware of any theories or speculation regardian Kant's critical philosophy as a framework for the Lost themes? I haven't thought it through yet, but initially, it does seem that the Critique of Pure Reason, with its reaction against the rigid Empiricism of Hume, carries similar themes to Season 1. Season 2 takes a noticable philosophical turn (especially with regard to Locke's faith), and seems to perhaps fit the thesis of Kant's second critique, of Practical Reason. I'm wondering if this can be born out, and perhaps foreshadow a thematic foundation for Season 3, mirroring the Critique of Judgment? Speculative, I know, but there are definite philosophical/epistemological undercurrents being allegorized here.--Immanuel k 23:07, 4 August 2006 (PDT)
i know there is already a section for relationships, however, familes (broken, dysfunctional, etc) seem to be a very common occurance and theme within the show. as a matter of fact it seems more and more apparent that the main characters have no intimate ties leading them back to the non-island world. yes an exception of this is desmond, but since that tie was the travelling point for the first 'real'-time scene off the island, it is obviously a deliberate exception worthy of note and most likely incurring consequences. what do people think?--Two Coyotes 23:02, 17 September 2006 (PDT)
The Pilot missing arm?
Do you mean his dead body up in the tree? --Minderbinder 07:19, 4 October 2006 (PDT)
Geronimo Jackson ?
How is this a theme? You might as well post Sawyer or The Swan. Now if someone wants to put Music, or Musical Groups, that I could see.--Tricksterson 07:19, 27 October 2006 (PDT)
Rename: Recurring themes vs. motifs
Technically, a motif is a recurring element of a literary exposition that occurs in the narrative universe. A theme is a prevalent allegory within the subtext and generally intended as commentary by the author. LOST certainly has themes, but that is another level of literary analysis below the mere reoccurance of plot elements. --Scottkj 11:47, 3 December 2006 (PST)
- No Sorry Scott... while I agree with you on a technical/literary level, most users in common speech will use the two terms interchangeably. I think if we split hairs too much, it introduces unnecessary confusion. --PandoraX 07:06, 10 December 2006 (PST)
- Disagree: It's fine as it is. --Marik7772003 12:57, 12 December 2006 (PST)
- Shamefully Disagree: You're absolutely correct, but most American college graduates are unfamiliar with the word motif, I'm somewhat ashamed to admit. It's probably best to name articles in a way that they can be found. -BearDog 13:19, 12 December 2006 (PST)
- Do not rename, for all above reasons-- 16:39, 12 December 2006 (PST)
- CONSENSUS: No change. --Scottkj 21:58, 12 December 2006 (PST)
- I agree with the suggestion. I dont know anyone who would consider starting an episode with a closeup of an Eye as a theme. From the comments here it would seem that people consider an obvious literary mistake in the very section that has to do with Literary devices as not ironic. People..its like spelling the word spell wrong. The entire literary analysis section was contructed by people who couldnt know nothing about Literary analysis. I hope you understand that those of us with even a basic knowledge of writing cannot hold in the laughter everytime we see those sections. Lets not be stubborn. The sections in the righthand column are contructed like a 3rd grader made up his own idea of what Theme, Literary Techniques, and Story Analysis mean. Its an insult to the writers. Please dont tell me they wouldnt look at that and go..what the hell?--John Burger 23:10, 28 May 2008 (PDT)
Merge with Portal:Themes
- Merge: -- 07:07, 27 December 2006 (PST)
- Merge, BUT redirect instead to Category:Recurring Themes instead. The Portal:Themes page is nice looking, but as stated, very out of date, and not user friendly to update (has to have picture thumbnails of each). It also has only more general themes, whereas the cat can be kept updated regularly with more specific themes. --PandoraX 13:23, 27 December 2006 (PST)
The Cons & Deception picture and text led to the incorrect article. They lead to children, instead of Deceptions and cons. Can someone fix this (it's been locked from editing) Thanks. David 16:22, 8 January 2007 (PST)
Salvation also leads to pregnancies. Thanks David 16:24, 8 January 2007 (PST)
Last time I swear (I've checked all them now). Eyes links to electromagnetism. Thanks again David 16:26, 8 January 2007 (PST)
It's still not fixed!!! SysOp? David 18:18, 8 January 2007 (PST)
- Fixed. --
20:14, 15 January 2007 (PST)
- There are still a few that David listed that are broken. Can someone take a look?--Dagg 20:23, 15 January 2007 (PST)
- THe Salvation and cons and deception links are the problems. --Marik7772003 20:25, 15 January 2007 (PST)
- I fixed the rest, I think. I don't think this article is protected; if you see more, feel free to change it yourself (just the link= section). --PandoraX 04:24, 19 January 2007 (PST)
- This article was protected without explanation in October (see history). I've left a note here: Lostpedia talk:Requests for page protection to ask the sysops to track which articles are protected, and why they are protected. It is ununual and unfortunate to have so many protected articles on a wiki that is as popular as this one. --Dagg 07:08, 19 January 2007 (PST)
note to self
Trope Wiki also has a list of recurring themes-- themes that recur between shows, and have been represented in Lost (rather than themes that recur repeatedly within Lost). Not sure where to put this external link yet. -- 20:13, 15 January 2007 (PST)
- I think it's a cool link, we could have an external links subheader at the bottom, right? lost.cubit.net also has a section (which *ahem* was written by me also... but I tried to write in a different style than when I contributed to lostpedia). On the Trope Wiki, that is really cool as a link, but I think they are approaching it from a different style than our themes. Theirs is more literary plot devices that have been used in other stories ("It was all a dream", "Sudden skills conveniently developed by character when useful", etc). Worth a link, though, I like it. --PandoraX 04:27, 19 January 2007 (PST)
Proposition for a new recurring theme
I'd like to propose an inclusion to this "recurring themes" section. The theme would be "falls" or "falling". Let me make clear that I'm not an expert as most of you, so there's no need for bashing.
How many people/things we've seen so far falling in one way or another in this show? Examples:
- the plane crashes
- a guy falls from the building on that Hurley episode
- Locke fell into The Swan
- Locke falls from the cliff to find the big ?
- Locke is pushed through the window by his father
- Inman dies from falling into a rock
- the food is dropped on their heads
- the top of The Swan fell from the sky after the implosion
- Boone died when that small plane fell
- Desmond got drunk, fell on the street and woke up at someone's feet
- Naomi got on the Island using a parachute
- the real Henry Gale also came to the Island on a parachute
- I'm sure there are many more...
Fallings are a recurrent theme in dreams and psychology, and people who deal with them make a point in interpreting them very specifically. I wouldn't go too far into the abstract meanings (like "falling from grace", "falling in love" or else), but the more "physically" obvious part of the theme might be important to the symbolism in Lost as well. The importance of the abstract meanings could be argued, though. -- updated by -. Grillage .- 19:08, 20 April 2007 (PDT).
Another Proposition: Things Not Staying Buried
In "Walkabout" Jack is opposed to burying the dead because "Any bodies we bury are not going to stay buried for very long." In "Expose" Locke says something to the effect of "things don't stay buried on this island." Another example could be the hatch. Just a thought.--Puddin Tame 18:28, 3 April 2007 (PDT)
does anybody else feel that enough people have gotten sick on and off the island to warrent 'illness' as a reoccurring theme? - platypusrex 7 april 2007
I believe Loyalty is a major theme. Examples include Locke's continued loyalty to his father despite his misdeeds, Kate's loyalty to Jack in not allowing him to be left behind, the Others' loyalty to Ben, and Locke's loyalty to the whims of the island. --Coreyj77 08:44, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
- I created a page about the theme of sacrifice in Lost, can we add it to this portal? --Jackdavinci 14:59, 20 April 2007 (PDT)
The Apocalypse, or perhapse apocalyptic warnings, is a theme which needs to be added - apocalyptic warnings are a major theme that occurs numerous times throughout the series. Here are a few examples off the top of my head:
1) Claire is warned, both by Locke in her dream and by the psychic Malkin, that she must raise her baby herself or else she will doom them all. 2) When he decends into the hatch, Locke finds Desmond and is warned that he must push the button or the world will end 3) The Dharma Initiative is out to fix the Valenzetti Equation and prevent the end of the world. 4) When desmond has his first "time-jump" he meets Ms. Hawking in the antique store and attempt to by Penny's ring. He is warned that he must not propose or else he will cause the end of the world.
I'm sure there are others references that may not be so obvious or that I'm not thinking of (maybe Chalie's visions in "Fire + Water", something involving Hurley and the numbers, Mr. Eko?) but already it seems to be a major theme driving the show's narrative. Thus it should get is own theme in lostpedia.
--Qwerty7412369 14:26, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Please see my article on Apocalypse (still under construction) and consider it for inclusion in the "Themes" Category. Edit as needed.
--Qwerty7412369 09:13, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Tricks of Location - The 'Pull Back and Reveal'
This is a theme I have noticed in Lost that has become increasingly prominent throughout Series 3. I feel it is a very important key to the show and its secrets and so I think it really deserves to be added as a recurring theme. I could do with some assistance in formulating the precise phrase to define it, but I'm quite willing to work on an article for this idea once I have a title.
Here are some examples of what I mean, just off the top of my head:
- At the very beginning of Season 2 we see what looks like someone's house or apartment, we assume it's an off-island flashback, but after a pull-back-and-reveal we find that it's the present timeline and we're seeing inside the hatch.
- At the beginning of Season 3 we again see someone in a suburban house hosting a book club. Again the assumption is that this is an off-island flashback, but it is then revealed that this is at the same time as the crash and we are on the Island.
- In Every Man For Himself it is revealed that Sawyer and Kate are in fact on another Island.
- In Juliet's first flashback (Not In Portland) she appears at first to be with The Others on the Island (she seems to be in a lab and we see Ethan walk past), when she opens the curtains it is then revealed that she is in a city.
There are others I'm sure. I reckon that a trick of this kind is going to come in to play in a very big way, possibly even in this week's episode. What I'm really after is a key phrase of title in order to create the article. I would appreciatte any comments or suggestions.Liquidcow 03:47, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- That's a very good observation. Although, like you, I'm not sure of what the article could be called. Maybe there's a need for a larger "Production Techniques" article that can incorporate your idea and other relevant points. Such as the techniques used for flashbacks , the use of CGI throughout LOST and so on. Then as the article develops and content grows, it could be broken apart into seperate articles and become a "Production Portal".--TechNic|talk|conts 04:59, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- I agree that this would be a very good theme to add. Lost is famous for its twists and turns, more than any other show I watch. Why couldn't we call the article Unexpected Twists or something similar? -- 07:42, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
- I'd see these occurrences as mild mindf*cks: future reveals that change our previous perceptions, but here used as distraction, not as major twists. Since I'm not so litterate as to seriously discuss this, I'll just suggest some possible names: "deceiving visuals", "deceiving camera work, "misdirection", "misleading footage", "camera misinduction" or any combination of these. How about it? -. Grillage .- 14:26, 10 February 2008 (PST)
use of color
Has anyone noticed a trend in the colors characters wear? With characters wearing solid shirts of orange, red, green, black and white, perhaps certain color symbolism is in place?
Orange seems to be worn whenever a character is being challenged, or is at the center of a personal conflict on the island. Red was extremely prevalent in Locke's 1st flashback as he dealt with the father.
Perhaps we should change the name of this section from "themes" to "motifs" as themes are really full ideas and motifs fits better with simple concepts like "rain," "black and white," "animals," and "religion". A theme should really be something along the lines of "psychology and its specific applications to the lives of some of the characters on Lost reflects the way in which the show studies the mental influences and capacities of its characters." A motif should really be something along the lines of "psychology." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Galford (talk • contribs) .
Hey Galford, I would personally say keep as it is, an example I could use to back that up would be the way producers say "The main theme for this season would be redemption" (sorry about using a Prison Break quote there guys). Also I would say that the word theme is much more commonly used than the word Motif, therefore people using this site are more likely to search for Themes over Motifs. If not already done, you could redirect "Motif" to this page. --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 07:25, 30 November 2007 (PST)
I was browsing around on the main wikipedia site this morning and came across this tidbit on the Lost(series) page. "Also recurring on Lost is a link between Canada and deception - i.e. if Canada is mentioned, it is used as part of a lie of some kind. This is seen in character aliases, stories on characters' whereabouts, and con details". Has anyone ever noticed this? The only two references to Canada that I can think of is Kate stating that she is Canadian and that Bonnie and Greta were supposedly in Canada. --Samhain99 10:14, 5 February 2008 (PST)
- There's actually quite a few of them. They're listed in Lostpedia's World Locations page. I'm actually the guy that tried to put that bit in Wikipedia, but it wouldn't stay. Burnside65|talk|contributions 12:30, 9 June 2008 (PDT)
Page Proposition: Opposites.
There are various symbolics of opposites. Although they are opposite they have something in common, such as: -Black / White. -Jack / Locke. -Ben / Sawyer. -Life / Death. -Good / Bad people. -Fate / Free will. -Coincidence / Fate. etc..
Page Proposition: Cleaning up your own messes.
Several episodes have included lines about cleaning up messes. It could also reference taking responsibility for consequences of your actions.
WCFrancis 18:44, 14 February 2008 (PST)
Page Proposition: The Rules.
- ... are all pixellated. Do new, smaller ones need to be made, uploaded, and added?-- 04:37, 27 April 2008 (PDT)
Good... and Evil.
I would change the sectio title "Good" in "Good and Evil", because that section speaks about both things, not only about Good People. --08:22, 23 June 2008 (PDT)
Rustles in the jungle
This could be added to the portal: someone goes through the jungle and suddenly he/she hears rustles and then someone/something goes out of the bushes. This occurs very often.--Kemot from Poland 05:11, 27 June 2008 (PDT)
- Don't know if anyone's noticed this, but, in addition, people are always falling over when they're running through the jungle. The Lost writers love this as a plot device. As for the above, I don't know if it is substantial enough to warrant its own page. Perhaps a mention on Jungle? I dunno...-- 05:12, 27 June 2008 (PDT)