Talk:Portal:The Others

The others apparently live on the island in a small, nicely tended, community located in a volcanic crater.

They pretend to live survivalist lives to fool the crash survivors.

They are aware of the DHARMA initiative.

They forcably abduct "Good People"

No children have been seen among them.

They have contact with the outside world via at least electronic and TV. Yet they remain on the island.

They seem content to allow the crash survivors to live on the far side of the island.

They don't seem to concerned over the french woman, where they have conducted plots against the crash survivors at the expence of at least 5 of their members lives.

Some of them may have been on the island before the DHARMA initiative arrived. (Ben who appears to be in his late 30s early 40s claims to have been on the island his entire life)

They speak english. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by ASEO (talk • contribs) .

Dead or alive

Emma is listed as both alive and dead! Her entry should be removed from 'The Others' section and kept as is in the 'Defectors' section Jmptdc 07:48, 15 November 2007 (PST)

Both Alex and Karl should now be listed as dead.

Images

Any idea why the image dimensions are so strange? --Admin 02:27, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

brainwashing

Karl is a member of the Others. Karl is forced to watch the brainwashing film. Have how many other "Others" been forced to get a brainwashing? Stay on the island, all their arguments (include "we are good") is a choice or the result of brainwashing? (Sorry for my bad english!)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mauro (talk • contribs) .

Add Luke

Would an Sysop be so kind as to add Luke to this portal, thanks. -Mr.Leaf 15:59, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Don't forget Mr Twitchy --Princess Dharma (banned) 11:16, 21 February 2007 (PST)

Colleen Pickett

Can we extend the name Colleen to Colleen Pickett? It seems more complete that way.Clayaikenatemybaby 21:56, 7 March 2007 (PST)

Where are Richard Alpert & Ryan Pryce?

Can you please add Richard Alpert now, especially since his profile has elevated from "flashback character" to "minor other" (at least, so far)?? Ryan Pryce could also be added to the minors, no? Highspeed 23:52, 21 March 2007 (PDT)

I agree with this. Richard is as prominent Other, and Ryan is like Danny Pickett was inside The Others community.

Guys, the episode aired last, night, relax, it hasn't even been 24 hours, it will get done.-Mr.Leaf 04:58, 22 March 2007 (PDT)

Him/Jacob

I know there's a discussion already for merging 'Him' and 'Jacob' pages, and Carlton/Lindelhof have confirmed "it's fair" to say they're the same entity, so can't we have this happen already? And on the Others portal, similarly merge the "Him" and "Jacob" links? --Cyhunter 12:36, 14 April 2007 (PDT)

It most definitely has been confirmed, and the majority vote is yes, but someone still has to do it. --Sauron18 12:38, 14 April 2007 (PDT)

"Him" was voted for merging with Jacob, so we can take it off this index now. Any sysops around? :) --Jackdavinci 21:36, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Sabine

Should be removed from portal: the others, We dont know if shes a hostile/dharma person/or a random survivor --Presariocompaq 06:58, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

Ben said they were all willing women before Claire, meaning they were as much Others as Juliet is. --Jackdavinci 01:01, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

She's an other. As JackDavinci stated and he said "She knew the risk" meaning they obviously were all together and she was an other. -Mr.Leaf 09:35, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

Jacob picture

Shouldn't we put Jacob's image?

Agreed, Jacob should be on this page. Kidburla 09:54, 21 October 2007 (PDT)

unknown headshot

Can the male and female "unknown" portraits be made more similar to each other in style? --Jackdavinci 12:24, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

We have two sets of them, the black ones and the purple ones. Unfortunately I cannot find the female version of the black one or else I would add it. Its just for a little while until the images on the wiki work again and i can make minis for them. -Mr.Leaf 13:19, 25 May 2007 (PDT)

Dead Vs. Alive Grouping

Do we KNOW that Mikhail is dead? He's already come back from dead twice, and the underwater 'death' was a lot more ambiguous than the foaming/bleeding from the ears and harpoon through the heart. I have a feeling his picture will be going back and forth between the two groupings until February.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Requiem (talk • contribs) .

The picture will stay under deceased until the new season for the following reasons. While his death is not confirmed or is up in the air there is more evidence to support his death then him being alive at the moment. If he somehow managed to survive the explosion he would have still died. He was not wearing his breathing equiptment, just a face mask, he had already been in the water for at least 30 seconds to a minute holding his breath. The water rushing in to the room would have held him back for at least another 10-20 seconds, and swimming up that much while still holding his breath would nearly be impossible. Not to mention the fact that he was bleeding (however little) and that there are sharks in that area that we know like the taste of blood. On the other hand, we can say they never really showed him completely dead. Although the latter is possible there is way to much information for the first option. -Mr.Leaf 09:24, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

This is definitely logical. Then again, so is death after taking a harpoon to the chest.

Juliet & Alex

Juliet and Alex should be move to a new section - "Former Others" Green Ape 09:37, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

Mikhail Bakunin

I don't think we should put Mikhail in the "deceased others" tab. We don't know if he lives or not.

I agree. Considering what he's lived through, a grenade would at most put him at Missing/Unknown

Proposal: Creation of "Status Unknown" section on this page

Certainly Mikhail Bakunin belongs in this category...for/against? --ukexpat 14:41, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Against - Mikhail is dead unless proven otherwise. Him being alive is a slim glimmer of hope by some people. The same could be argued for Diane, Pryce, Ivan, Luke, etc, etc. -Mr.Leaf 14:43, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

• But having blood spout from your ears and nose whilst frothing from the mouth, and being shot in the heart area with a harpoon, would kill almost everybody. So Mikhail could possibly be still alive, seeing as though we thought he was dead twice before. --Magnet 22:41, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

• We marked as being dead the first time to. Unless proven alive I think this should as I said be assumed dead. Read my explanation above, just to many possibilities of him dieing to say he's alive. -Mr.Leaf 15:11, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

• Confirmed at Comic-Con 2007. Mikhail is dead.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:21, 21 August 2007 (PDT)

Isabel

Isabel is dead, according to Damon and Carlton at Comic-Con. >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 04:24, 31 July 2007 (PDT)

Redesign Applied

• Obviously there are a few things to fix before this goes online, in particular the images of the characters need to be resized. I need to ask people though. Ben... Technically he is a defector from the DHARMA Initiative, so shouldn't he go into the "defectors" list at the bottom?  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:21, 21 August 2007 (PDT)
  • Yes, I think so. After all, as you say, he went from DHARMA to the Others, having originally been a DHARMA workman. So yes, he is a defector. --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  04:06, 21 August 2007 (PDT)
    • I don't think so. After all our definition of the Others is not the group that was originally on the island (that is in a sense the Hostiles). The Others were always the group opposing the Losties. We also know that there are other members of the Others that are from DHARMA (as noted by the producers) and I don't think moving just Ben would work. The Others are the people that have opposed the Losties since they came to the island. Ben's actions before this really don't matter to the Losties and don't change their views of him as an Other. I hope what I'm saying is clear. -Mr.Leaf 10:09, 21 August 2007 (PDT)
      • I'm with Mr Leaf on this one. The Others refers to a group apposing the Losties. Ben should have a defected to image on a Dharma Worker portal. --   Dee4leeds  talk  contribs  all  13:15, 21 August 2007 (PDT)
    • Well this is where my confusion lies. Because we say on the Hostiles page that this group became the group we know as The Others. So essentially Ben Linus IS a defector from the DHARMA Initiative to The Others so on the Others page should be listed under Defectors/From the DHARMA Initiative in that case. Ben being the leader of the said group doesn't stop him being a defector to The Others, does it? The Others, though named "The Hostiles" by DHARMA, were still essentially the same group of people, that DHARMA members joined after the purge... See why I'm so confused? :-) Richard hasn't changed his alliegances for example, but we know Ben has. Oh, and Dee, we are definitely having both a DHARMA Initiative portal, which Ben will be listed as a defector on, and a Hanso Foundation portal. I'm also making sure that portals don't differentiate between TLE and The TV show as they are both canonical. I don't think we should seperate any of the portals where characters may cross out.  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  17:32, 21 August 2007 (PDT)

I understand why you are confused. I think that IMHO the Hostiles may have become the Others but the Others were never the hostiles (if that makes sense). While the majority of the Other's members may be from the hostiles (or not...) that does not make the 2 groups the same. The Others are as I have said the group that the Losties first met on the island. That is the definition of the Others for all intensive purposes. Ben is an Other. The Losties (for the most part) don't know Ben was DHARMA. He is an other to them. The only defected to Other's people are those who have changed sides since the original meeting between the Losties and the Others. So Cindy, Zack, Emmma for now...-Mr.Leaf 10:46, 22 August 2007 (PDT)

Right. Similarly, we should not list Juliet as a defector from Miami Central University Medical Research Laboratory. Brighterorange 21:10, 15 October 2007 (PDT)

I think the Hostiles are the Others, but that neither name is correct. They have a name for themselves which we do not know yet. "The Good Guys" is a description, not a name.--Jim 19:41, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

I think you should put ben in both. he was a dharma worker, but he is now an other.

Emma isn't dead!

-

This user is from the United States of America.

Portal:The Others has been on Lostpedia since August 26, 2006.

10:52, 28 September 2007 (EST)

• • Yes this must be changed immediately--Phil (talk) 06:54, 16 November 2007 (PST)

• It does not say Emma is dead. -Mr.Leaf 12:07, 16 November 2007 (PST)

• Yeah, Emma is placed twice, one in the "others"-section, which is wrong    Lash  talk  contribs 

Ah, didn't see that, it's been fixed. Also I unlocked the page if anyone with image editing skill wants to fix/update the images to better fix the portals. -Mr.Leaf 09:56, 15 December 2007 (PST)

Musician

Why is the musician included as an Other? The Looking Glass station was created by Dharma. The musician created the music keypad FOR Dharma. Just like the chess champions created the computer chess game found in the Flame. bah

I agree. The entry should be removed. Dharmatel4 21:10, 28 December 2007 (PST)

Molotov Woman, The Twins, and the Musician should all be excluded from the portal, since they all are extras without any names. Please fix this ASAP. Thanx! Pierre80 17:03, 12 February 2008 (PST)

• OK, they've been deleted. I also agree they don't belong. Burnside65|talk|contributions 06:57, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

New Others members

I think we should put Harper (status: alive), Henrietta (status: deceased) and Widmore's victim (status: missing or unknown) in this list. Norden 11:20, 09 March 2008 (CEST)

Got 'em. -- Graft   talk   contributions  21:51, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Karl & Alex

Need to be changed to deceased --LOSTinDC 15:54, 30 April 2008 (PDT)

Leadership

There is a recurring issue of who has been, is, and will be the leader of the Others. "Others," as used here, refers to the main body, the group being led by Ben Linus from long before September 2004 and continuing until late December 2004. There are factions within the Others, but it is unclear whether they are factions within the main camp or other people living in a group or groups elsewhere on, and possibly off, the Island.

There are a multitude of other issues which are related to, but not the subject of, this piece.

There are some important points:

• Somewhere, the Others have a tremendous amount of money (in a trust?). The original source of the trust is unknown.
• The Others have an excellent intelligence collection network.
• Jason is an avatar of the Island, but is not the Island.

We can clearly identify three leaders of the Others practicing their leadership: Richard Alpert, Ben Linus, and John Locke. Alpert may have been preceded by Charles Widmore, rationale to follow.

The properties of a leader:

• They are "non-killable," which is different than being immortal.
• They do not age while on the Island, but do age while off the Island; they can die of old age.
• They can communicate with the elusive Jacob and also exercise some control over his movement; it is not an amicable relationship.
• They have dreams (some of which may be nightmares) about events on the Island.

Because we do not know when the Island began (references to Atlantis noted), we cannot identify the first or every leader.

We can begin with Charles Widmore (b: unknown). Widmore became Leader at some undetermined date. His passed the test, discussed below, but his leadership was found wanting, perhaps from a fiscal perspective, by the Island. Ben said Widmore wants to exploit the Island ("The Other Woman"); Ben also claimed not to know how Widmore knows about the Island, but Ben has a reputation for telling lies and half-truths (too many references to cite!). Richard Alpert was identified as Widmore's possible replacement (method unknown) and confirmed by being tested by Widmore, who had been placed under duress by the Island through the constant occurrence of nightmares. Alpert became Leader, although he might not have wanted the position, and Widmore later fled the Island, seeking relief from the nightmares. Under normal circumstances, Widmore would have become the elder statesman of the Others. He was successful both in ridding himself of the nightmares and, using seed money he stole from the Island trust, establishing Widmore Industries. Widmore has never been content with being ousted (he still sees an opportunity for exploitation) and is still trying to get back to the Island to execute a coup d' état.

Next is Richard Alpert (b: unknown). Alpert, too, became Leader at some undetermined date, possibly in Cincinnatus-like role, hoping to be relieved of the task as soon as possible. At the time of Locke's birth in 1956, Locke was identified as a candidate for leadership; the method of identification is to be determined. Alpert visited Locke's birth community more than once, learning the identity of the foster home in which Locke had been placed. In 1961, Alpert visited the child Locke and tested him for his suitability as Leader. Locke successfully selected the compass and the granules and should have gone on to select the Book of Laws, then stopped. Alpert did not set a limit, but selecting either the comic book or the baseball glove would have indicated play instead of work (a lack of maturity). Selecting the knife indicated violent rather than peaceful leadership. Locke would have to mature and would have to purge himself of violence by using knives ("getting them out of his system") before he could qualify to be Leader. Alpert was angry because he wanted Locke to replace him as soon as possible or he knew Ben was a potential, if flawed, Leader, or both. Alpert returned to the Island to resume his duties as Leader. During his tenure, the DHARMA Initiative was formed, with the involvement of Charles Widmore, and established facilities on/invaded the Island. There was immediate conflict between DHARMA and the original inhabitants, which DHARMA identified as "Hostiles." Sometime before December 1987, Ben passed the leadership test, an event we have not yet seen and may never see. He was now an Other, but returned to live with the DHARMAites, possibly as a spy because he was most useful there. In December 1987, Richard executed the purge, his last official act and passed leadership to Ben, who may have been unhappy with the idea of the purge.

Next is Ben Linus (b: Early 1960s (before Alpert tests Locke)). Linus became Leader on the day of the purge, having been tested and qualified in a scene yet to broadcast which occurred prior to December 1987. He had properly selected the compass, which enhances the Leader's ability to "move the Island," a process not yet completely explained; the container of granules, which are symbolic of the Leader's ability and duty to keep Jacob in his cabin or the small area surrounding it; and the Book of Laws, which is the Rule by which the Others are governed. He rejects the comic book, baseball glove and knife, which would, in addition to showing immaturity and a tendency toward violence, have shown greed (by taking more than he needed). Linus rules the Others as well as he can, but in early 2004, while not on the Island, he contracted cancer in the form of a tumor on his spine. Even if relieved of the cancer, Linus will continue to suffer from physical disabilities which will limit his function as Leader.

Next is John Locke (b: May 30, 1956). "Truth in advertising" requires an admission that the description of his ascendency is a little soft, if only because we have not seen a "coronation." He failed the test for leadership when he was a child, although he may have since passed it in circumstances of which we are not yet aware.

Last is Walt Lloyd (aka Walt Dawson) (b: Aug 24, 1994). The timeline on this one is unknown. Walt's assumption of power may occur after all the flashforwards we have been seeing.

Son killed Father:

• Widmore, maybe.
• Alpert, maybe.
• Linus, yes.
• Locke, yes by proxy.
• Walt, not yet, but Michael "still has work to do," although a part of that work may be to be killed by his son.

Is this a theory?  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  19:04, 27 May 2008 (PDT)

Moved (copied?) to The Others/Theories#Leadership quite a while back.

--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:13, 13 July 2008 (PDT)

Updates

• Ben has "defected" to civilization.
  • This demonstrates a need for a new group. "Returnees" works as well as anything else. Initial members are Ben, Desmond, and Frank. It may be a good idea to include all the Oceanic Six with the returnees. I think the group is breaking into two factions, but time will tell. I doubt that we can consider the Six to be monolithic.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:15, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
• Locke has defected from the Survivors Camp to the Others.

- Tvb 13:40, 30 May 2008 (PDT)

New Colour Key

Please see this page for a discussion about a possible new colour key for these portals.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  16:34, 4 June 2008 (PDT)

Jacob

Where is Jacob?--Orhan94 08:59, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

• Lol I think he should be re-added. --Ryan76el 09:01, 4 July 2008 (PDT)
• Who is Jacob? I think we need to know the answer to that question before he shows up in any portal, exdept mysteries. It would be more important if he were in every episode.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 10:04, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

Locke

Should he really be under as deceased yet? I mean where in time do we place our portal? This is so confusing haha. --Nickb123 (Talk) 05:27, 11 July 2008 (PDT)

• No, Locke is not dead; we've seen him in a casket, but that's in 2008. In real time, it's January 2005 and our intrepid Oceanic Six have just washed up on the island of Sumba. They haven't even been flown to Hawaii yet. It is entirely possible that TPTB will do a massive fastforward this coming January, but that hasn't happened. If the community agrees, revert and lock the page (Nothing's going to happen until January!).--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 07:13, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
• True. The only thing left is to decide whether or not Jacob belongs on this, and then the page can be locked. Because we've agreed, present time only. The only thing that could come of leaving this page unlocked is an edit war, unfortunately. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  07:25, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
  • The problem with locking it is that it's a pain to get the SysOps to unlock things again once the new season starts. It's not hurting anyone having it unlocked, just leave it.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  16:41, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
  • Two parts: 1) I'm semi-convinced that Jacob is just Jacob; he's a list with one element. 2) Is it really all that hard to get a Sysop to unlock a page? If Season 5 begins the third week in January, someone can ask for an unlock in the first week, when we're starting to salivate.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:14, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
    • To answer 2), yes it is. It took me over a month of unprotection requests and messaging people, and comments on talk pages to get the portals unlocked in the first place.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  18:19, 11 July 2008 (PDT)
      • Just an FYI, there's a new feature in the wiki software that allows us to set expiry dates on page protection meaning if everyone is for it, we can lock this page an I can set it to automatically unlock on sat January 10th, and change it to the correct date and even time when we learn the airing schedule. -Mr.Leaf 18:31, 11 August 2008 (PDT)
      • I like the idea. I've used it on Fringepedia and it works.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:22, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

Nancy

Just wondering but why is tail section survivor Nancy in the defector section? Correct me if I'm wrong but we never saw her as an Other or with the Others...only Cindy Chandler, Emma & Zach and those two background survivors (although those two don't belong here).--Mistertrouble189 19:42, 4 September 2008 (PDT)

• Good point. It's possible she was kidnapped (captured) that night, but fought back and did not survive.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 05:39, 5 September 2008 (PDT)
• Removed her.--Mistertrouble189 13:12, 9 October 2008 (PDT)

Proposal: Split page into 2004 Others, 1954 Others, 1970s Others

There are getting to be an awful lot of them.Namastizzay 04:10, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

• Disagree, but rearrange the portal so that those not known to be dead are at the top. I don't argue that there is a valid interest in the deceased, but I am more interested in the living.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
• Disagree, most of the 1970s Others are probably there as ex-Hostiles in the group known as the Others and 2004 and the 1970 would be a sub-portal of the 1970 as the main players from the Others' history (Ellie, Widmore, Alpert) are in both timelines. Also we do have enough portals for characters, having these two would be kindda over flooding the site and the Browser for the Portals. --Orhan94 16:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
  • To clarify, I am not proposing having multiple pages. Just grouping the Others on the page by primary era. I think having the living listed first in any section is a good idea. Namastizzay 23:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Ben and Juliet as of The Incident

Should they be labeled as Missing or Unknown as of the Incident, just like on the Main Characters page? Blender83 22:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Jacob's enemy

I would add him myself, but I have no idea how to add a character to the portal! But since this guy is possibly one of the longest-living Others, he should definitely be on the list. Marc604 23:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Adam, Amelia and Harper

They're listed as alive, but how do we know? We haven't seen any of them with Richard recently. --SuperJar 15:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Missing Others

A lot of characters seem to be missing from this list. The major ones I can think of off the top of my head are Ben, Locke, and Ethan. What's the deal? Why aren't they on the portal? Gefred7112 07:39, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind, I'm an idiot. Scrolling down might help. Gefred7112 07:40, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Adding Hurley, Jin, and Sayid to the Captives section

As they were taken captive in LAX alongside Sawyer and Miles. Feel free to revert/discuss as needed.

Temple Dwellers

Where is Dogen and Lennon? Cindy, Zack and Emma are on it, why arnt they? Shortguy457 22:04, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Defectors

Why are the survivors who were taken by the others (Cindy, the kids, etc.) listed as defectors? I think they would fit more appropriately in the Others section considering that they haven't defected in any way; they're just with the Others at the temple. And shouldn't the temple characters introduced in LA X (the Japanese guy, his interpreter) be added to the list of Others? --Patches124 05:50, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Temple Others

I just add Dogen and Lennon, but i think a new section with the Temple Others must be created. --Cypher80b 13:43, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

• someone want to add Justin? And fix Luke. I'd do it, but don't know how... Shortguy457 06:26, February 11, 2010 (UTC)