Discussion moved from theory page[]
- Benjamin Linus is fond of witty aliases (Henry Gale, Dean Moriarty) and either encouraged Marvin Candle to create alternative names, or came up with them himself.
- Ben didn't come up with Henry Gale or Dean Moriarty, for that matter. Neither of them are witty as well.
- "Henry Gale" and "Dean Moriarty" are both literary references. Presumably this is what is meant by "witty". And who says he didn't come up with them?
- "Henry Gale" and "Dean Moriarty" are both literary references. Presumably this is what is meant by "witty". And who says he didn't come up with them?
- Ben didn't come up with Henry Gale or Dean Moriarty, for that matter. Neither of them are witty as well.
--Blueeagleislander 04:01, 14 August 2008 (PDT)
- He took the name of "Henry Gale" from the actual pilot of the balloon that crashed, so no, he didn't come up with that name on his own. Seems like the wittiness is owed more to the writers on that front.
Sources[]
- When/where were his first name and home city revealed? Duke Starhopper 22:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
- See the Dharma booth video. --Blueeagleislander 04:43, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
Pierre is Chang and Illana's boss[]
I'm removing this- absolute lack of any evidence. Not a single thing links them to DHARMA or Chang. There is a difference between evidence why a theory COULD be viable and evidence that SUPPORTS a theory. A lack of contradictory evidence DOES NOT EQUAL confirmatory evidence. --Integrated (User / Talk) 06:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Pierre Chang is Ho Chi Minh/#19 Nguyen[]
I am new to wiki, so bare with me.
- Hồ Chí Minh was born with the surname "nguyen" and used various names throughout his career much like Chang/Candle/Hallowax/Wickmund. While Pierre's actor (Chau) is part Vietnamese part Chinese.
- Grew up in Vietnam, worked on a boat to gain voyage to America (Blackrock?), later moving to work at a hotel in london,then went to paris, then moved to moscow, then got married. His troops didn't like this, and he said "I will get married despite your disapproval because I need a woman to teach me the language and keep house." (sun/jin reference)Traveled to Brussels, Berlin, Switzerland, Italy then Thailand.
- Minh's wife got pregnant and he had to travel again before he knew. She got an abortion to not disturb politics, as celibacy was said to symbolize Minh's devotion towards the revolution.
- To release pressure, Minh's death was announced while he travelled under the radar under a new name. (Miles mom told miles his dad was dead)
- Tang tried sending letters to get into contact with minh but government officials held them from getting through. (So Miles' mother would not know he was infact still alive until an alternate timeline takes place where her letters go through after Sayid kills the constants holding the letters). Communication station on the island shut down. Vietnam war vet Mihail arrives on the island.
- In this time, Minh travelled to Hong Kong and back to Vietnam to push the independence movement.
- In 1945 there was a powerstruggle which killed members of both parties, eventually leading the trotskyists to be purged
- In 1945, the Dharma Initiative... I mean Democratic Republic of Vietnam was born and many of the remaining communists fled south due to propaganda flown in from Virgin mary statues
- By 1965 US troops arrived in south vietnam to counter the communist threat and bombings in north vietnam increased on the US navy and army (Blown up submarine, Jughead, burning busses anyone?)
- Throughout his travels, Ho chi minh slept with another woman and had a son in 1956 (This would have made miles 21 in 1977 when we see him with a lip piercing and spikey hair, but also causes some confusion to my overall theory)
- Ho chi minh died in september 1969 from a heartattack(8 Years before our losties join Dharma), his wife Tăng Tuyết Minh died November 1991
- Minhs body was embalmed and put on display in a granite mausoleum modeled after lenons tomb.
- Upon learning that it was in his will to be cremated, he was cremated and the ashes were put into 3 different urns among 3 different mountaintops throughout vietnam
- "Not only is cremation good from the point of view of hygiene but also it saves farmland - Ho Chi Minh" (See Season 1 episode burning the fuselage, Jacobs death, Use of ash around the cabin and used as protection against smokey)
- "It is better to sacrifice everything than to live in slavery! - Ho Chi Minh"
- Seol Gateway hotel was where Jin worked as a doorman, the name Seol means "Special city", the island is special and Saigon's main form of public travel is on waterways surrounding the city.
- Saigon was renamed "ho chi minh city" in Honor of the leader in 1975, giving the Dharma Initiative enough time to get things organized before we see our losties join up in 1977.
What am I getting at?
- Marvin Candle(Ho Chi Minh or #19 nguyen) and all his aliases travelled to all the places benjamin linus required Sayid to kill someone at, these people were Ho Chi Minh's constants/democratic advisors which gave him the power to control the island/Saigon. As long as a single constant (dedicated follower/believer) is alive, the island cannot be overthrown for good.
- He only uses names relating to candles, because Ho chi minh was a Confucian, for which rituals involving candles are extremely important.
- "Chang" is also the most commonly used surname in south korea, with over 2% of the population bearing the name, The Korean war had many parallels with the vietnam war and lost; However the Treaty between the others and Dharma must be mentioned in relation to Korea being divided at the 38th parallel, much like the island is divided.
- Also trying to figure out if candle's different names are anagrams for Ho chi Minh's different aliases
- Time to go look at Dogen, Lennon and all the other real world scientist named characters to see if they are also on the list of candidates. Scientists vs Religious leaders recruiting for the final war, black vs white, ying vs yang.
- Very rough draft, I am sure I am leaving tons of other comparisons out, but will be working on it over the next few days.
Dmar217 19:33, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
The above is surely one of the most wildly unsupported and bizarre theories on the whole lostpedia. Most of you your information is incorrect or irrevelant, or you connect it with people other than Dr. Chang. Where to begin?
The actor's ethnicity is irrelevant. We have an anglo-Indian playing an Iraqi and an Anglo-Burmese-Indian playing a Russian, so I doubt it matters if Francois Chau is part Vietnamese. However "Pierre" does suggest a likely connection with French Indochina, which was Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, but there is no reason for choosing Vietnam.
That he used different names is no evidence of a resemeblence. Sawyer used different names. Ben used different names. Maybe they were Ho Chi Minh too?
"Grew up in Vietnam, worked on a boat to gain voyage to America (Blackrock?)," . This is ludicrous. Why compare this random boat to the Black Rock. Just because it's a boat? Why not compare it to desmond's boat, or michael's, or anyone elses? Does Dr Chang have any connection whatsoever to the Black Rock? No.
"I need a woman to teach me the language and keep house." (sun/jin reference)" - so you're saying Pierre resembles Ho Chi Minh somehow because Sun and Jin do ? That is ridiculous.
"So Miles' mother would not know he was infact still alive until an alternate timeline takes place where her letters go through after Sayid kills the constants holding the letters" - this is just nuts.
The Dharma initiative began in 1970, not 1945.
"Throughout his travels, Ho chi minh slept with another woman and had a son in 1956 (This would have made miles 21 in 1977 when we see him with a lip piercing and spikey hair, but also causes some confusion to my overall theory)" - this is just untrue. We know Miles was a baby in 1977. We see him with spiky hair much later, in the mid or late 90s.
""Not only is cremation good from the point of view of hygiene but also it saves farmland - Ho Chi Minh" (See Season 1 episode burning the fuselage, Jacobs death, Use of ash around the cabin and used as protection against smokey)" - once again you relate to characters and events that have nothing whatsoever to do with Dr Chang.
"Saigon was renamed "ho chi minh city" in Honor of the leader in 1975, giving the Dharma Initiative enough time to get things organized before we see our losties join up in 1977." - this is just untrue. The losties joined Dharma in 1974, and stayed till 1977.
"Marvin Candle(Ho Chi Minh or #19 nguyen) and all his aliases travelled to all the places benjamin linus required Sayid to kill someone at" - What ? THis is completley looney tunes. Chang was not following Sayid around.
"**"Chang" is also the most commonly used surname in south korea, with over 2% of the population bearing the name" - this is completely untrue, the most common surname is Kim, followed by many more before you get to 'chang'. And once again you're relating something completely unconnected to Dr Chang. Your whole thesis is that he's vietnamese, and you're trying to prove something with similarities between Korea and Lost?
There are so many things off about this theory. No character in lost has ever turned out to be a real life person, or showed any hints of it. If Chang was Ho Chi Minh, he would be 87 years old in 1977. Clearly he is not 87 years old, and he would be 114 years old in the Flash-sideways to 2004. Beelzebubbles101 09:04, April 18, 2010 (UTC)