Remove Speculative Descriptions[]
Come on guys, we are better than this. You can't just put all these descriptions when you even admit it is all speculation. I don't go edit the article for episode 6.14 with what I think is gonna happen, and this should get the same treatment. No track descriptions until we actually know for certain what they are! InflatableBombshelter 05:37, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
- I actually agree. One thing that bothers me is "Jacob's Stabber" says Juliet detonates the bomb. I haven't checked how long that score should be in the scene, but it's clear that it's from the Ben and Jacob scene, and I can't see that they will add the little bit on the end of that from Juliet's scene. I hope I'm wrong, because I'd love them to put that on the soundtrack, but we just don't know yet.--Baker1000 19:13, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
- I won't fight this decision since clearly you guys are "better" than me, but: 1) It's not at all the same as guessing what's going to happen in a future episode, since we can use track titles, time lengths and the actual freely-available episodes themselves to confirm things; 2) There ARE in fact track samples available for some tracks, so some of the descriptions were 100% confirmed fact; and 3) For those tracks without samples yet available, descriptions were ONLY included for tracks with lengths that PRECISELY matched their in-episode scenes. I figured this might be information that people would enjoy since it took effort to look up and confirm such things, but -- alas -- we're treating these like episode spoilers/conjecture. I do hope whomever deleted the table saved it somewhere first though, as it'll be useful very soon. The good news though, Baker, is that the given track length for "Jacob's Stabber" only fits the scene length with the bomb detonation included on the end, so it'll only be surprising if for some reason it isn't there. (Also, this wouldn't be the first time a track has been named for one scene when it includes multiple consecutive scenes - just look at Season 4's Lockabout or Can't Kill Keamy. Cheers. Sorry my efforts were unsatisfactory.--DesmondExMachina 20:41, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Also, I won't add anything cause I don't want to be a bother - but Track 1 is confirmed from Because You Left, and Track 10 is confirmed from Namaste. There are samples available. You can listen and match them up to their exact moments in the episodes. Cheers--DesmondExMachina 20:45, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
- I got the soundtrack today and unfortunately, the music from the scene where Juliet detonates the bomb is NOT included on the soundtrack. -- EvelynPace 17:40, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Well there you go. That's why we can't assume what will and won't be included in the tracks. For a start, this isn't about "who is better than who" it's about keeping the wiki factual. Sure, we can use track titles and the like to guess the episodes, but we can do that for episode articles too. We could have written on "The Candidate" that the centric character is Jack, which is what I read, which means the title obviously refers to him as "The Candidate". But it was wrong, because no one is specifically named as the Candidate in this episode, other than Locke in the FST. The table is still available in the history for when we know for sure what the tracks are. Although re-writing it won't be hard, and will probably be more accurate. Another example I can use is the article for "I Hear Dead People". Someone had the cheek to write that fans think it will be Miles' theme from 5x13. I agree, it probably will be. But this site is not about what the fans think something is, it's about what it actually is. We could write all the possibilities for Adam and Eve on the article otherwise. They also wrote that it is going to be the them when Miles sees Pierre holding him as a child. It could very well be, but Miles' theme is the one in the opening flashback, which plays in multiple Miles "hearing dead people" scenes. It's more likely to be that, especially based on the name. Also, don't give me the whole "my edits are not appreciated" moan because your edits got removed. That happens a lot on this site, sometimes without any reason. I had a good reason to remove that table. I read on DarkUFO people saying "Lostpedia says the track is from this scene". They were taking it as fact, trusting that the site is for factual content only and believing it to be true. We just can't give opinions and present them as facts, sorry. When the soundtrack is released, you can add to the article all you like and I won't bat an eyelid unless it's something we don't need. I'm in England, so chances are you will listen to all the tracks a week before me. That's a full week without my interference. On a side note - EvelynPace, how have you got the soundtrack already?--Baker1000 19:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Baker -- you're right about the random speculation. I agree of course that nothing about posting here has anything to do with "who is better than who," but I'll admit to getting frustrated by the "we are better than this" note that starts this thread upon finding my work deleted. I do fail to see how matching a track such as "the swinging bendulum" to the only scene that fits its title and exact/precise run time is the same as guessing that The Candidate might be Jack-Centric before seeing the episode; They seem like science and faith to me -- one based on the evidence of what we have, the other based on what we think might happen -- but we can agree to disagree, and you're right that erring on the side of caution is definitely best when our readers rightfully expect what's posted here to be fact. This is why earlier I made the effort to only post episodes/track titles that could only possibly fit one scene/time length as well as as ones we already had samples for that I matched to their scenes by watching the episodes. Crazy? Yeah, but I LOVE this music ;) I definitely wouldn't have posted a scene description for "I Hear Dead People" since the track length wasn't of help in comparison to the episode, but I guess I can see how my work could encourage someone to do so since there's no way for me to prove what I'd done to back up my findings. But bygones. Definite apologies for the "Jacob's Stabber" Error - I'll have to go back and see where I screwed up in writing down scene/track lengths. Now that the album's out (it came out early on iTunes) I'm going to start a new thread for discussing some of the tracks that are still confusing even with the album in hand. Can you get it from iTunes already in England?--DesmondExMachina 20:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- No, I'm afraid I can't. I would probably wait until the physical release anyway, I prefer to have the booklet in my hands to flick through while I listen. However Amazon.co.uk list it for release on May 11th, but it is an import version. The UK release is not until the 17th. It would cost a little more though, so I have to decide if I really want to pay more to get it a week earlier. Since you can get it on iTunes though, feel free to add to the article which episode the tracks appear in since you have actual tracks to base it on now.--Baker1000 20:40, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I think the "Jacob's Ladder" mistake might have happened because tracks often include music from several scenes. I think the track starts with some music from the beach scene and then continues with the music from the scene inside of the statue. Just as "The Swinging Bendulum" where only the second half is the actual Eloise/Lamp Post theme. In any case this mistake proves that it's better not to include speculations (especially not without making obvious that they are only speculations). As to why I already have the soundtrack: I pre-ordered it in April and luckily they sent it early :-) -- EvelynPace 12:40, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- And to muddy the waters even further, there's also some (I think) unused music on the end of the track featuring a droning version of the main/survivors theme that is placed after the final blast of Jacob's theme which coincides with the MIB kicking Jacob into the fire and the scene ending. Perhaps this was originally meant to be over Kate and Sawyer struggling with the wreckage but was dialed out in the editing of the episode. Speaking of the Main/Survivors theme, it's EVERYWHERE on this album. I somehow failed to notice how much it was used through the Season, or maybe it's that they were specifically picking tracks that used it a lot in order to give the album a good flow. That theme really holds the album together more than it has any album since Season 1. Also, Evelyn, that's super cool they already sent you your copy -- was that from Amazon or elsewhere? Cheers. --DesmondExMachina 13:12, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I got my copy from Colosseum. The music at the end of the last track seemed new to me, too at first, but it's used in the scene after Jacob's stabbing when we see Sawyer, Kate, and Jack at the Swan (you almost can't hear it because of the noise). This makes me wonder even more why they didn't include the last 30 seconds of music that was used in the scene where Juliet detonates the bomb. And the tracks "The Tangled Web" and "Dharma vs. Lostaways" seem different from the music that was actually used in the episode. The first minute of "The Tangled Web" is used in the scene where Jacob and MIB are on the beach but the music that follows differs from the music that is used when MIB tells Jacob he wants to kill him and when we get to see the statue. The beginning and end of "Dharma vs. Lostaways" is used when the Losties are at the construction site of the Swan but the middle of the song is new or at least not used in that scene. When Juliet, Sawyer and Kate arrive in the Dharma van and the shooting starts, there can be heard a piece from "Bobbing for Freighters" instead. This is the first time I've ever compared a complete track with a complete scene. Makes me curious if there are more tracks on this soundtrack and the previous ones that differ from the music that was used in the episodes. I'm also not sure if I should compare it because I was disappointed when I realized that the end of "The Tangled Web" is different from the episode. -- EvelynPace 17:55, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
- And to muddy the waters even further, there's also some (I think) unused music on the end of the track featuring a droning version of the main/survivors theme that is placed after the final blast of Jacob's theme which coincides with the MIB kicking Jacob into the fire and the scene ending. Perhaps this was originally meant to be over Kate and Sawyer struggling with the wreckage but was dialed out in the editing of the episode. Speaking of the Main/Survivors theme, it's EVERYWHERE on this album. I somehow failed to notice how much it was used through the Season, or maybe it's that they were specifically picking tracks that used it a lot in order to give the album a good flow. That theme really holds the album together more than it has any album since Season 1. Also, Evelyn, that's super cool they already sent you your copy -- was that from Amazon or elsewhere? Cheers. --DesmondExMachina 13:12, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- I think the "Jacob's Ladder" mistake might have happened because tracks often include music from several scenes. I think the track starts with some music from the beach scene and then continues with the music from the scene inside of the statue. Just as "The Swinging Bendulum" where only the second half is the actual Eloise/Lamp Post theme. In any case this mistake proves that it's better not to include speculations (especially not without making obvious that they are only speculations). As to why I already have the soundtrack: I pre-ordered it in April and luckily they sent it early :-) -- EvelynPace 12:40, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- No, I'm afraid I can't. I would probably wait until the physical release anyway, I prefer to have the booklet in my hands to flick through while I listen. However Amazon.co.uk list it for release on May 11th, but it is an import version. The UK release is not until the 17th. It would cost a little more though, so I have to decide if I really want to pay more to get it a week earlier. Since you can get it on iTunes though, feel free to add to the article which episode the tracks appear in since you have actual tracks to base it on now.--Baker1000 20:40, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Baker -- you're right about the random speculation. I agree of course that nothing about posting here has anything to do with "who is better than who," but I'll admit to getting frustrated by the "we are better than this" note that starts this thread upon finding my work deleted. I do fail to see how matching a track such as "the swinging bendulum" to the only scene that fits its title and exact/precise run time is the same as guessing that The Candidate might be Jack-Centric before seeing the episode; They seem like science and faith to me -- one based on the evidence of what we have, the other based on what we think might happen -- but we can agree to disagree, and you're right that erring on the side of caution is definitely best when our readers rightfully expect what's posted here to be fact. This is why earlier I made the effort to only post episodes/track titles that could only possibly fit one scene/time length as well as as ones we already had samples for that I matched to their scenes by watching the episodes. Crazy? Yeah, but I LOVE this music ;) I definitely wouldn't have posted a scene description for "I Hear Dead People" since the track length wasn't of help in comparison to the episode, but I guess I can see how my work could encourage someone to do so since there's no way for me to prove what I'd done to back up my findings. But bygones. Definite apologies for the "Jacob's Stabber" Error - I'll have to go back and see where I screwed up in writing down scene/track lengths. Now that the album's out (it came out early on iTunes) I'm going to start a new thread for discussing some of the tracks that are still confusing even with the album in hand. Can you get it from iTunes already in England?--DesmondExMachina 20:14, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Well there you go. That's why we can't assume what will and won't be included in the tracks. For a start, this isn't about "who is better than who" it's about keeping the wiki factual. Sure, we can use track titles and the like to guess the episodes, but we can do that for episode articles too. We could have written on "The Candidate" that the centric character is Jack, which is what I read, which means the title obviously refers to him as "The Candidate". But it was wrong, because no one is specifically named as the Candidate in this episode, other than Locke in the FST. The table is still available in the history for when we know for sure what the tracks are. Although re-writing it won't be hard, and will probably be more accurate. Another example I can use is the article for "I Hear Dead People". Someone had the cheek to write that fans think it will be Miles' theme from 5x13. I agree, it probably will be. But this site is not about what the fans think something is, it's about what it actually is. We could write all the possibilities for Adam and Eve on the article otherwise. They also wrote that it is going to be the them when Miles sees Pierre holding him as a child. It could very well be, but Miles' theme is the one in the opening flashback, which plays in multiple Miles "hearing dead people" scenes. It's more likely to be that, especially based on the name. Also, don't give me the whole "my edits are not appreciated" moan because your edits got removed. That happens a lot on this site, sometimes without any reason. I had a good reason to remove that table. I read on DarkUFO people saying "Lostpedia says the track is from this scene". They were taking it as fact, trusting that the site is for factual content only and believing it to be true. We just can't give opinions and present them as facts, sorry. When the soundtrack is released, you can add to the article all you like and I won't bat an eyelid unless it's something we don't need. I'm in England, so chances are you will listen to all the tracks a week before me. That's a full week without my interference. On a side note - EvelynPace, how have you got the soundtrack already?--Baker1000 19:03, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I got the soundtrack today and unfortunately, the music from the scene where Juliet detonates the bomb is NOT included on the soundtrack. -- EvelynPace 17:40, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think the tracks are always taken straight from the episode. I haven't done many direct scene to album comparisons, but I certainly noticed recently that part of "Claire's Escape" from S2 is slightly different to the one used in the actual episode. It seems they record at least some of them again for release to the soundtrack, which doesn't always come out the same, or even Giacchino makes some "improvements" and adjustments.--Baker1000 19:38, May 7, 2010 (UTC)
Locke's Excellent Adventure[]
Someone keeps switching this one to being from "This Place Is Death," but I'm 100% sure that at least its beginning and end are from "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham." The track not matching the usual episode order might have to do with the fact that 5.06 and 5.07 were swapped from how they were initially written to be aired (with 5.06 being Bentham and 5.07 being 316 but Darlton decided keeping Locke's death/letter a mystery for 316 was better drama). Also, it wouldn't be the first time one of the albums had a track out of order, such as "Mapquest" from Season 2. The odd thing is that while I can 100% place the start and finish of this track to Locke being sent to Tunisa to his having to bite down on the stick his leg is relocated in TL&DOJB, there's a bit of thematic material that appears to have been cut from the scene or at least that I can't recognize in the scene, and I can't place it anywhere in the whole season... The section is around 2:35-3:00. Any ideas? Can anyone identify? --DesmondExMachina 20:23, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I apologise, that was me who changed it back. I saw that the track article stated it was from 5x05 and assumed it just wasn't updated on the table. I agree it has to be 5x07 though, and that it appears out of order due to the swap. I believe there are a few tracks which are swapped out of order in previous soundtracks too. I'm a little disappointed that there is no music from "Jughead" though. I quite liked that low, droning theme used with the 1954 Others.--Baker1000 20:48, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- No worries. I'll change it. Also, I'm with you on the 1954 Others theme. I'm also super-sad they didn't include the epic variations on that little Island exploration motif (the motif in Season 3's track "Juliette is Lost" and all over the show itself) that were featured heavily in "This Place Is Death" when the group journeys to the Orchid and finds the well. That was one of my top three favorite musical moments of the season. Alas! My early judgement is that the start of the album is a bit disappointing, while the latter half of the album is absolutely amazing. But as always I'm just glad they're still releasing these -- has ANY TV show ever been treated to an album for every season before? I can't currently think of one...--DesmondExMachina 22:37, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- I can't think of one either! I know Fringe just released Season 1, but whether or not Season 2 is planned remains to be seen. For a while we were doubtful over Lost giving us Season 3, but they turned around and treated us to two discs. I hope Season 6 has two discs too. I have to say that the Season 5 finale music is the most epic I have ever heard, and I hope it gets the proper treatment on this soundtrack.--Baker1000 23:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah, I thought we were done for after the Season 3 Ratings dip and the delay of that album! The folks at Varese-Sarabande must really love the show to have stuck with it like this -- and hopefully these albums are selling well, too. Even for popular media sometimes score music doesn't sell to well. I think you'll be very happy with the Season 5 finale music featured. And to think I never thought Giacchino would be able to top the Freighter destruction sequence for sheer epicness...--DesmondExMachina 13:16, May 6, 2010 (UTC)
- The only other notable shows that I'm aware of are Battlestar Galactica and the resurrected Doctor Who -- which happen to be the only other shows that I follow where there's been enough wealth of compelling new score to warrant per-season soundtracks. BSG had separate album releases for the miniseries, each season (2CD for S4), and one combining music from the two TV movies (Razor/The Plan), plus talk of another album with various notable material that didn't fit on the previous ones. The BBC was slow out of the gate for Doctor Who, and the first album covered both Series 1 and 2; this was followed by annual releases for Series 3 and 4. AFAIK no word yet on if there will be a dedicated album for the 2009 specials. --Westacular 21:29, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
- I can't think of one either! I know Fringe just released Season 1, but whether or not Season 2 is planned remains to be seen. For a while we were doubtful over Lost giving us Season 3, but they turned around and treated us to two discs. I hope Season 6 has two discs too. I have to say that the Season 5 finale music is the most epic I have ever heard, and I hope it gets the proper treatment on this soundtrack.--Baker1000 23:17, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- No worries. I'll change it. Also, I'm with you on the 1954 Others theme. I'm also super-sad they didn't include the epic variations on that little Island exploration motif (the motif in Season 3's track "Juliette is Lost" and all over the show itself) that were featured heavily in "This Place Is Death" when the group journeys to the Orchid and finds the well. That was one of my top three favorite musical moments of the season. Alas! My early judgement is that the start of the album is a bit disappointing, while the latter half of the album is absolutely amazing. But as always I'm just glad they're still releasing these -- has ANY TV show ever been treated to an album for every season before? I can't currently think of one...--DesmondExMachina 22:37, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
- As if the production number swap between 5.06 and 5.07 weren't confusing enough, the actual booklet for the S5 Soundtrack has misprinted which tracks belong to which episode, saying that 'Track 3' is from "06: 316," and 'Tracks 4, 5, 6, 7' are from "07: The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham." The other way around, however, is the truth. I guess this is why the world needs Lostpedia ;)--DesmondExMachina 23:24, May 11, 2010 (UTC)
- I got mine today and I noticed this. I noted it in the trivia. I was a little disappointed not to find a little message from Giachinno or Darlton in the boolet though. Overall, a great soundtrack although a few tracks sounded a little different to how I remember them in the episode. Perhaps my memory isn't that good. The "1954 Others drone" got a short feature in track 2! The finale music is awesome, but it was all 1977 apart from the flashbacks and the final track.--Baker1000 16:48, May 15, 2010 (UTC)