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Would you consider the board really one of Sawyers hallucinations? --rdavid01 20:18, 23 February 2006 (GMT)

Yeah - I wasn't sure on this one. Don't remember if it really was a boar, or a hallucination that only Sawyer saw and heard but Kate didn't. Does Kate ever acknowledge hearing/seeing the boar? --«««Joseph»»» 12:45, 23 February 2006 (PST)

By definition a hallucination can't interact with the real world. Also generally it's only viewable by one person. Of course one could say that the entire show is a shared hallucination by all the castaways but that's a different argument. The boar (and Kate's horse) were able to physically interact with the world (Kate was able to touch the horse, the boar was able to wreak havoc on Sawyer's possessions) and both were seen by more than one person (in both cases Kate and Sawyer). So I would say that neither is a hallucination. Jack's father was only seen by him and did not interact (as far as we know) with the world so he was indeed a pure hallucination. Since Walt was seen by both Sayid and Shannon he falls somewhere in between but since there was no physical interaction I would put him in the hallucinatory (or maybe "vision" is a better word than hallucination)category.--Tricksterson

Hallucinations

This section was originally on the Common Themes page, but there seems to be enough controversy over what is and isn't a hallucination that maybe we should discuss here.

From Wikipedia : A hallucination is a sensory perception experienced in the absence of an external stimulus, as distinct from an illusion, which is a misperception of an external stimulus. Hallucinations may occur in any sensory modality - visual, auditory, olfaction, gustatory, tactile, or mixed.

In my opinion, just because two people experience an hallucination, doesn't make it real - but others may disagree.

-- «««Joseph»»» 19:29, 2 March 2006 (PST)

When Sawyer finally "found" the boar, Kate didn't see it. Her eyes never left Sawyer.--BigSteve777 06:15, 10 March 2006 (PST)


If you watch 2x15 you will see just seconds after the end of that animated gif that Ethan's hand is fully intact with all 5 fingers.

Dujoducom 14:41, 10 March 2006 (PST)

I changed "Dreams" to "Dreams and Visions" because dreams are usually interpreted as something you have when you're asleep and Locke, Jack and Shannon were all awake when they saw what they saw. Also vision is a less pejorative term than hallucination--Tricksterson 10:39, 14 March 2006 (PST)


Black & White changed to Colors?!?!?

I started the black & white theme because there was significance in the contrast. If we change it to colors then we can put... hey the forest is green ...hey Claire's eyes are blue. WTF!?!?! --BigSteve777 10:53, 14 March 2006 (PST)

That of course would be silly. I only changed it after I noticed that the color red was creeping in significantly. Also have noticed that thematically red is sometimes used as an alternate to black in some stories (like the Red Queen and Knight in Alice through the Looking Glass). Red is also a significant color in Egyptian mythology, representing destruction and chaos. Is there some way of arbitrating disagreements like this?----Tricksterson 11:47, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Colors or Red would probably fit better as a separate header as the extreme contrast is definately a theme on the show, i don't know if the color red is, and beyond the hieroglyphs I can't think of anything too major red things on the show either. The number of B&W incidences on the other hand, of those I can think a few and it's that same contrast that's used in a lot of other themes in the show as well. Might be semantics again, but black or white aren't actual colors either. If there's a vote, I'd say "Change it back". --skks 17:21, 14 March 2006 (PST)

I agree - change it back to B&W. Make an extra point with red if you will, but red is always a significant color. It's a warning color and as such it is used in LOST on the Counter. I don't see any more significance to it and if it says "Colors" people will come up with stupid notes about eyecolors, haircolors, the color of the sky and the ocean at varying times - in the end, it'll bee too much nonsense and the important part gets buried.

Same happened IMO with the numbers. People startet to write down every occurance of the numbers, like there are 4 buttons on the captains jacket and stuff like that. It barely holds any significance... --aurora glacialis 01:04, 15 March 2006 (PST)

Okay, how about I make a seperate category of Red then and iff other colors start popping up significantly we can revisit the subject?--Tricksterson 06:50, 15 March 2006 (PST)

Rename to "Recurring Motifs"?

Some of these are definitely "themes" -- dreams, parent issues, etc. -- while others (e.g. missing body parts) are more "conspicuously recurring items." (For my part, I'd add white tennis shoes to the latter category.) Should we distinguish these with two separate pages, or maybe just rename to "Recurring Motifs" or "Recurring Themes & Objects"? --User:Joezoo

I was thinking about Locke's dream today.

-Dream starts-

First he sees the smoking plane coming down while standing at the Hatch, which gives him the direction to go for the plane.

Boone appears mesmerised.

A sound of something falling or breaking draws his attention to the figure of his mother in the forest. Who points to the sky

Then he turns to see a blood covered Boone repeating "Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs".

Flashes back and now Locke is again wheelchair bound and his legs are useless again.

-Dream ends-

Somehow Locke's dream shows something from Boone's past that no-one could possibly know. Somehow something is tapping into peoples subconscious. Without the repeated line from the dream would Boone follow Locke to the plane?

The dream might have been prophetic or a warning to Locke. Don't go to the plane: Boone will be hurt and you will lose your legs again.

It doesn't help John open the hatch, which what he asked for and is how he interpreted the dream. --MRNasher

Eye color

This could be a complete shot in the dark, but it seems that a large number of the survivors, the caucasian ones, have blue eyes. This is normally a minority color, occuring in about 25% of whites. Complete coincidence? Or might it have something to do with who the Others find desirable

Do you mean they don't find blue eyed white people desirable or they do? I don't really think this holds much water either way as they took Walt and tried to take Mr Eko and they took Claire (for her blue eyed baby) and I'm pretty sure the tail ender children they took were blue eyed. I don't really think eye colour is a prioroty for the casting team. --LostCat 12:08, 8 May 2006 (PDT)

A Chicken?

I see what you mean now Steve. By animals I mean those that had a significant interaction with the castaways on a level other than dinner.

Indeedy. I think there's, by definition, lots of animals in a jungle, doesn't mean we should list them all. I bet there were lots of insects in each episode and birds flying. --skks 06:34, 17 March 2006 (PST)

Murder & Death

Would murder and death be worth making into a theme?

There seems to be a fair amount of it going on in peoples lives.. which is fairly natural and does make flashbacks more spicey but its something i've been thinking of. I have just been making a list of life/death issues that might be helpful in some way later on.

KILLINGS (Murderous Intent)

  • Sawyer: kills wrong man in a revenge hit
  • Kate: kills father and responible for death of childhood friend
  • Mr Eko: Oldman and drug dealers
  • Ana-Lucia: The man who shot her and killed her baby
  • Charlie: kills Ethan
  • Ethan: (or another Other) kills Scott and Charlie

DEATH

  • Jack: his own father. Allows Shannon's father & Boone to die. Mercy kills the Marshall
  • Hurley: Grandfather dies before his money can help him.
  • Sayid: The woman he loves (x2), he lead to the death of his friend
  • Ana-Lucia: accidently shoots and kills Shannon and kills Goodwin in self-defence
  • Mr Eko: kills 2 Others in self-defence
  • Locke: Jack feels Locke's lie lead to Boone's death

SAVES LIVES:

  • Kate: Saves the farmer
  • Jin: Saves life of a man marked for death
  • Sayid: Shots self to allow childhood friend to escape.
  • Mr Eko: attempts to save his brother
  • Jack: (specifically) saves Rose, Charlie & Boone from death and helps save Claire from the wing
  • Ana-Lucia: revives a drowned girl and saves Bernard
  • Hurley: both endangers and saves Claire from the planes wing
  • Sawyer: revives a drowned Michael

CPR seems to work surprisingly well on the island don't you all think, its brought back: Rose, Charlie, Michael and Emma so far. --MRNasher


Personally, I think the word 'murder' would lead to endless discussions about semantics. 'Killings' or something other like that would fit better. Mr. Eko killed few of the others, but he didn't murder them. --skks 06:09, 18 March 2006 (PST)

Thats a fair point.. as long as the death is accidental or justified as self-defence i think its safe to not call it murder.

Eyes

Is it just me, or does this 'theme' seem a bit far fetched? Same thing is happening here that happened with the numbers:

Trees

  • The jungle has a lot of trees
  • Mr. Eko is chopping trees
  • The raft was made mostly from trees
  • In the nursery in Maternity Leave, there is a picture of a tree
  • ad nauseam

--skks 06:15, 18 March 2006 (PST)


I think the raft is made more from bamboo, which is a grass, and wasnt there a tree in the background of Jack's childhood flashback? ... OMG i'm getting sucked into a tree debate as well ;)

Anyone else think that lack of new Losts are making everyone a little crazy? --MRNasher

Yes, yes it is. I don't think Eyes has gotten out of hand yet but we should definitely keep an eye out for this problem (pun intended)--Tricksterson 07:30, 18 March 2006 (PST)

Seems like some of the stuff on the page are recurring on 80% of the shows on TV, maybe we should cull the article a bit to include only the stuff that's special to LOST. In a lot of the shows on tv, someone gets pregnant, someone dies, someone has a plan or is manipulating someone else, someone has eyes and there's atleast a few shots of animals & trees. How many of the things on the page fit to let's say The Bold & The Beautiful or Days of our Lives? --skks 05:50, 4 April 2006 (PDT)

Satanism

Before anyone says anything, satanism has got nothing to do with satan or satan worshipping. --skks 07:51, 27 March 2006 (PST)

Sometimes it does. I would say that a selfish attitude does not a Satanist make. Yes I acknowledge that Satanists do not necessarily fit the stereotype promoted by Christianity (as a Pagan , I'll be just about the last person to take the judgements of Christianity 0n faith (no pun intended)), especially those who call themselves Luciferians but until we have something a little more substantial I would not call Sawyer a Satanist. One might just as easily call him an anarcho-capitalist. And in case you're wondering, yes, I've actually met a couple of Satanists, one practicing, one former (She moved over to Wicca)--Tricksterson 08:11, 27 March 2006 (PST)

So... you wouldn't call him a satanist (and neither did the article before you edited it btw), but you make the judgment call on declaring him not a satanist. Personally I don't see the necessity of mixing up christianity or it's main characters into this, but if you want to do that, that's totally up to you. Then again, I'm not a christian or a satanist nor can I remember/care enough to mention if I've met any, so clearly I don't have all the facts. In any case, I disagree, and I'll just leave it at that. --skks 14:30, 27 March 2006 (PST)

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