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Number of Survivors

According to this page there were 48 (excluding Vincent) survivors of the middle section of 815 however early on in the series after Mars dies it is repeatedly stated that there are now 47 survivors and after Joanna is killed Jack states there are now only 46 survivors meaning people who survived the crash but were killed in the initial aftermath (for example Gary Troup) are not included in that 48. Yet we have them listed on this page which is inaccurate so either we revise it to say there were at least 50 survivors (including Vincent) from the middle section or we remove Troup and characters only seen in the aftermath who may have not survived the explosions (Woman, and Gas Man) and place a notation on the top of the page that states the list does not include those killed in the initial aftermath.--Thelamppost 14:54, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Didn't Jack's statements of 47 post-Mars-death and 46 post-Joanna-death include Ethan though?  >: 4 8 15 16 23 42  15:00, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
Yes they did meaning they were actually down to 46 then 45 survivors.--Thelamppost 15:05, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
Just because Woman and Gas man were no seen after the pilot does not mean they did not survive beyond it. They should not be removed based on speculation. As for the count yes Jack included Ethan and didn't include Gary Troup (The only person confirmed to die in the aftermath). However Gary did infact survive the initial crash and died shortly afterwards therefore making him a survivor of the crash itself (though a very short term one). While Jack was wrong about who was included in the count he was accurate with the number. Nobody needs to be removed. Mhtm ghnd....talk 03:34, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
I am against removing Troup I was just making a point that it is misleading since we are relying on the count taken hours after the crash following the deaths of some survivors. Gary was not the only one confirmed to have died in the initial aftermath a female extra is killed by a piece of shrapnel after the fall of the wing making the count at least 49.--Thelamppost 01:46, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
Are you sure about this I've just re-watched the episode (again, you know I think it's starting to bore me) and I can't find the extra you mention. Also there is no mention of her in either the episode synopsis or transcript. If she does exist then she would need to be included as an initial survivor but I'm as yet not convinced she does. Mhtm ghnd....talk 01:28, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
I was wrong it was after Troup is sucked into the engine and she is only thrown back by the blast.--Thelamppost 13:06, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Ah I know the one you mean. Sometimes I wish there had been fewer survivors so it would be easier to keep track of them all. Mhtm ghnd....talk 01:26, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Roles

I have a number of objections to the roles section. The leader/follower roles does its fair share in belittling certain characters. The "self-serving" and "self-involved" titles are strange to apply. Categorizing certain members as redshirts undermines their importance (i.e. Edward Mars). --Puppyfury -- talk -- contributions 04:07, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Can you really say Rousseau lives on the beach??? I don't realy see that.--Reena511 08:09, 11 January 2008 (PST)

So much information

This article is only a list! The sections "Number of Living Survivors", "Group camp locations" and "Wreckage of the plane" contain unnecessary information about no-survivors, others, resident pre-crash, fuselage location, airplane pieces... This informations was aborded in other specific articles.

Please, remove this unnecessary items.--Dusuarez p dusuarez BRAF 18:44, 17 January 2008 (PST)

Locke

Why is Locke with all the redshirts? --Blueeagleislander 00:12, 18 January 2008 (PST)

I think because he was previously categorized as "Defected" with Michael and Walt, and then not moved up with the main cast after being changed to "Alive". I say go ahead and move him up there. -- Graft   talk   contributions  00:27, 18 January 2008 (PST)
I changed the michael/walt catagory to mean "off the island" but left Locke where he was. There is more cleanup to be done and there is no reason for anyone to hold back. I'd only suggest that we stay in the direction of less information and a simpler article. All the follower stuff should come out too. Dharmatel4 00:35, 18 January 2008 (PST)


Changes

I've made some changes to Ana and Libby. I added prominent to Ana's as it didn't have prominent, minor or redshirt and I changed Libby's to prominent (she was more prominent that Nikki and Paulo so she should have the same status)

Woman (from Pilot)

Howcome Woman (from Pilot) aint listed while Gas man, N.D. Survivor, Tourniquet Man and Male Tailie all are? Barbara Vidinha was credited just as Geoff Heise, Ivana Michele Smith, Dale Radomski and Jon Sakata were. Pierre80 09:55, 8 February 2008 (PST)

I've added her. Pierre80 21:16, 12 February 2008 (PST)

faction information

Can we get rid of the faction information? There is already an article that covers it as a standalone subject. Its generally better not to duplicate complicated information in multiple places. Dharmatel4 14:56, 13 February 2008 (PST)

Yeah, I agree it's not necessary; I wouldn't mind it going. I just wanted to make sure that if it is there, it doesn't ascribe allegiance onto members who aren't visibly present in the groups. -- Graft   talk   contributions  15:21, 13 February 2008 (PST)

Survivor count

This article begins by stating that there are 72 known survivors, 71 human and 1 dog. Yet the total count on this page of "Survivors shown or mentioned in the series", "Expanded universe survivors", "Unnamed extras recognized by fans", and "Deuterocanonical survivors" is 74 (Vincent the dog included). Just thought this to be an interesting fact. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RiverOfTruth (talkcontribs) .

Big problem. The official Lost ABC video 4:24 says there are 48 survivors. [1] --Xbenlinusx 22:51, 24 April 2008 (PDT)

Is anyone else going to comment on this? The article says 70+, but LOST/ABC says 48. --Xbenlinusx 01:33, 29 April 2008 (PDT)
It's simple to me. They're counting the fuselage only, leaving Seth Norris and the Tailies unmentioned. Malachi 03:29, 29 April 2008 (PDT)

recent changes

  • Two cleanup changes have been made for survivors. The first is long overdue, and that's a differentiation of extras vs. redshirts, and a further differentiation of stunt actors. Redshirts are written into the script as incidental characters, technically so that they may eventually die. Extras are taken from a rotating pool of people who have now numbered more than 50. Furthermore, one-time stunt actor appearance have been made for some scenes such as Gas Man and Tourniquet Man, and those are noted as distinct from redshirts too. The second point is eliminating the "fan name" table. There was only a single entry, SBSSG. The problem is that out of these 50+ extras, perhaps a dozen have been given fan names; however some of these have also either 1) on one occasion were given lines (e.g. steve/scott), or 2) names of background survivors were given in the script, and some of the extras visibly seemed to correspond to these names in the script (e.g. jerome, richard). However these people also have fan names, such as richard = "asian cowboy". We can either create a fan-name table for all extras (irregardless of points #1 and #2), but even so it doesn't belong here, it should go in the background cast article. The third point, which has not been satisfactorily addressed yet is the case of extras being visible WITH specific names or nicknames in the script BUT without one-to-one correspondence. This goes mainly for the tail section; we might consider adding a note on this issue later, as well as on the main extras article, b/c otherwise a reader may think there is such a one-to-one correspondence meaning that unidentified survivors without pictures have never been depicted, or that all depicted individuals must add up to the total known number of survivors (which of course they don't). -- Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  Talk  13:04, 28 February 2008 (PST)

vincent is semi-prominent

vincent is semi-prominent—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Petrarch1603 (talkcontribs) .

New Survivors Articles

Should we creat new articles for the three deceased unnamed survivors. We created a page for Blonde Casualty and in their discussion page they said that since she was dead she was infact an oceanic survivor (which I completely agree to). So if she is considered a survivor why not the three that died in the Kahana explosion? I for one think it would be a good idea, just to follow suit with Blonde Casualty.--User:LostCloverfield42 18:22, 30 May 2008 (PDT)

New Traffic light system

Here’s how I see it:
Alive = Green
Defected = Yellow?
Unknown = Orange
Off Island = Purple
Dead = Red


Please see Kahana for a good example, I belive that this should be used on every article to give the site consistency. --Rbfskywalker 14:33, 3 June 2008 (PDT)

  • I think Dead should be silver. It works better Decboy 08:59, 7 June 2008 (PDT)
    • Fair enough to say that, but this has been disussed on Portal:Main Characters so I am going to undo your change, just so you know. --Rbfskywalker 14:22, 7 June 2008 (PDT)


Jin Kwon

Hey, why is his status unknown while everyone else who was on board is presumed deceased? We should move him down to the list of deceased too, cause we have all reasons to believe he's dead. If he reapperes alive somehow, we will change it again. Malachi 09:57, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

Becasue he was on the deck near the edge so he could of surived, and why else would they have Dan out there on a boat?--Rbfskywalker 14:22, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

Regardless, his status is exactly the same as Michael and the three unknowns from the first Zodiac trip. All five should have the same listing.--FlyingArrow 12:09, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

Unnamed Survivors

Why have the articals for, Blonde Casualty, Red-haired Casualty, Long Hair Casulayt, Short Hair Casualty, and Male Casualty been deleted? Haven't we established that since there were killed, they ARE survivors and therefore should have articals? It angers me becaues I have worked hard on some of thoes articals and they were carelessly deleted without a consensious. We need these articals to return. --LostCloverfield42 06:40, 11 June 2008 (PDT)

  • Agreed: those survivors have been separated from the main casrt when they got killed. Their articles should stay - not be removed without even a poll. Malachi 08:02, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
    • While I agree, those articles recieved a speedy deletion so I think it's unlikely they'll be back, unfortunately --LeoChris 13:28, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
      • Are we allowed to create new articals for them? I could do it this weekend, if thats what we want. These characters have a rightful place among the survivors with articles. If no one has any objections I will creat these articles this weekend. --LostCloverfield42 13:55, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
        • What exactly difference does speedy deletion make? We still have a long talk about Margery, which was nonsence to begin with, but four articles about casualties that have been around for a while (Blonde Casualty existed for a month and a half) have been just "speedy deleted" without any discussion. Malachi 14:06, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
          • So you're for creating articles for them again? Anyway do we know which User deleted the articles?--LostCloverfield42 18:59, 11 June 2008 (PDT)
            • Check the talk pages, they are still intact. The articles were deleted by one of the admins, this is where the trouble lies. Malachi 03:38, 12 June 2008 (PDT)

User "Santa" deleted them. While i agree that these casualties should be kept, there is an ongoing disscussion about them. Go to the Blonde Casualty Talk page and support our cause. There is also an article Flight 815 Background Casualties. Support that page! Dont let it be deleted! It's good for now!--Mistertrouble189 18:08, 13 June 2008 (PDT)

Male Tailie

Haven't we established that Male Tailie is dead. If this is true then he needs to be moved into the pink area and another slot for another tailie should be added to the others. I'll attempt this but im not too good with tables. --LostCloverfield42 20:07, 12 June 2008 (PDT)

It's been done.--Mistertrouble189 18:08, 13 June 2008 (PDT)

Victims

Why are victims of the crash on a page entitled "List of Oceanic Flight 815 survivors"?!? --Blueeagleislander 05:16, 14 June 2008 (PDT)\

  • The victims were survivors, but they died later on (ex. shot, blown up, injury etc.)--Mistertrouble189 12:53, 14 June 2008 (PDT)
    • No they weren't! Have you even read the section? --Blueeagleislander 18:28, 14 June 2008 (PDT)
      • Sorry I must have misread your post thinking you meant people who were once survivors but now victims. I see what you mean now, the new table at the end of the page? IDK why that's there but it doesn't seem like a bad idea.--Mistertrouble189 05:25, 15 June 2008 (PDT)

Steve Jenkins

Hasn't Steve been declared dead by the producers in the podcast? Even their answer was a little confusing and doesn't match up with what happened in the show, Steve is probably dead, we don't see him anymore. If he's dead, why isn't he in the pink section?--Mistertrouble189 12:55, 14 June 2008 (PDT)

  • Actually, Christian Bowman hasn't been on the show for a long time. You're looking at someone else. --Castaway815 14:03, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
  • I thought the actor switched characters at one point or something. Either way, I still don't know whats the deal with this guy so I'm leaving him to whatever you guys want.--Mistertrouble189 14:14, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Steve Jenkins alive, Scott Jackson dead.--Mistertrouble189 11:57, 30 September 2008 (PDT)

Rename

This page should be renamed to Oceanic Flight 815 Crew and Passengers as the victims of the crash are now listed. --Ryan76el 00:12, 15 June 2008 (PDT)

AGREE. Though the prominent-semiprominent-minor thing still bugs me. --Halcohol 04:00, 15 June 2008 (PDT)

Mostly disagree. In all honesty, I have mostly built this page as a resource for understanding who survived the crash, and where they were/what they were doing on the show. Personally, I would give the casualties of the crash their own article. There is a certain advantage to "Survivors" redirecting here, instead of to the main portal, which only lists main characters. This is a great resource for people who want to know who survived the crash and where they are as of the end of Season 4. I nominate the creation of a second page for crash victims, with a short paragraph on this page that links there. --Castaway815 09:02, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

I agree with Castaway815 now. I think the victims of the crash should have it's own page. --Ryan76el 10:38, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Colors

I changed the EU survivors to "yellow" and the deutrocanon survivors to "light blue". This helps to differentiate between the two. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 15:56, 16 June 2008 (PDT)


Unknown

Why is Richard, Sullivan and N.D. survivor listed as unknown. Why wouldn't they be alive. They weren't in team Locke or the freighter. --Ryan76el 09:14, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

  • Yeah just because they haven't been seen for a while doesn't make them unknown. They were fine and alive the last time we saw them. They should be listed as alive.--Mistertrouble189 09:47, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Tourniquet Man, N.D. survivor, Sullivan, Richard, Gas man, and Craig were all listed as unknown. Since there is no proof that they are dead, I changed their status to ALIVE. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 10:46, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Look, I am changing it back (AGAIN!). Just because we don't know someone is dead doesn't make them alive. What the heck do you think the "unknown" status exists for? Should we just say Jin is alive? No one is "alive" unless we know they are alive. These people might have very well followed Locke and died. We don't know where they are. We don't know if they're alive. Their status is unknown. Period. --Castaway815 13:36, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
They weren't seen in Locke's group. Also we didn't see Bernard in the last episode but he isn't listed as unknown. This is stupid listing Richard etc as unknown. --Ryan76el 13:45, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
Neither was Steve, but the producers told us he was with them. Some of these extras aren't with the show anymore. You cannot use the "did we see them in the background of the 1.5 scenes they were supposedly all together in one place" as an arbitrary rubric for whether or not a character went with Locke (and thus, whether or not they are alive). Their status remains unknown. --Castaway815 13:51, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
Btw Steve is alive in "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1" so only 4 extras went with Locke. It is harder to tell what extras are in team Jack however easily to spot what extras are in Team Locke. I didn't see any of them in Team Locke so they must be at the beach. --Ryan76el 13:59, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
Actually, that actor who played Steve left the show a long time ago. The only word we have on his "status" is through podcasts. You can argue all you want, be have rules around here for this type of conflict. And to answer your earlier point, we know Bernard was with Jack, so that's not a good argument. We don't know where these other survivors went. We don't know = unknown. --Castaway815 14:01, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
  • I think their should be a vote this

I vote for them to be listed as alive --Ryan76el 14:06, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Look, this isn't always a democracy. There is a policy, and we can't mark them alive based on that.
 I'm calling in an admin to end this. --Castaway815 14:08, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
Fine then, but they are alive. And heres a pic of Steve in "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1" as you wrote on Santa's talk page that it was in are head.


Scott-4x12 --Ryan76el 14:38, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

That is not Christian Bowman. It's not Steve. Sorry, man. It's just not. The actor isn't on the show anymore.--Castaway815 15:18, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
  • Curious but who is it? Dustin Watchman? Or another extra?--Mistertrouble189 16:16, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
    • The person does sort of resemble Dustin Watchman, but I would be hard pressed to come up with a reason why they would hire him to appear as a background extra since he is, er, dead. The background cast page has him listed as Dustin Watchman, but I seriously doubt that is the case. --Castaway815 16:51, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
      • Dustin appeared in a bunch of post-Homecoming episodes according to his own article on Lostpedia and the background cast article (including Exposé in a flashback) ... if it IS indeed him in all those listed appearances, then that means he is still on the show. (Probably meaning that STEVE/Christian has been dead all this time, regardless of what the producers might have said.) Indeed, do we really believe the producers ? If it is indeed Dustin in that picture, then that means in my opinion that Scott/Steve (whoever he is) is alive ... What is shown on the show should have more cannonicity weight if it contradicts something said by the producers ... Let's say somebody from the production team said the Shannon is still alive ... would we list her as alive then ? I really don't think so. (PS: I'm sorry if this came out as rude in any way, shape or form, it wasn't my intention) --LeoChris 17:20, 17 June 2008 (PDT)
Christian Bowman's interview sums it all up nicely. That is Dustin Watchman, and he plays Steve now. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  08:26, 22 June 2008 (PDT)

Straw Poll: ALIVE or UNKNOWN

There is a dispute about whether Craig, Richard, Gas man, Tourniquet man, etc should be listed as ALIVE or UNKNOWN. List your vote below (ALIVE or UNKNOWN) in bold along with a brief explanation of your vote and your sig.
Rules: A user is allowed one response to this poll. Do not respond to another user's response.


Alive: Since they were NOT seen with Locke's group or they were never shown to be killed, I think that they are a part of the beach background cast and should be listed alive. We shouldn't be listing everyone as Unknown. The unavailability of actors is a main reason that some of the redshirts listed above do not recur. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 17:51, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Alive: These background survivors were last seen alive and well. There's no evidence or whatever to say that these people are unknown. We last saw them alive. They should be noted as alive, not unknown just because we haven't seen them for a while.--Mistertrouble189 18:50, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Unknown. WE DON'T KNOW whether they are alive or dead. We have accepted that Steve was with Locke's group, despite the fact that he was never seen on screen this season (the actor left the show). That being said, we can't establish who was with Locke based on what we've seen on screen. It's difficult to argue against this point. That is why the "Unknown" status exists. This shouldn't be an argument. There are rules about these things on Lostpedia. And if there is going to be a poll that counts for anything, an admin should be running it. CTS is not an admin. By what standards were the "rules" of this vote set? --Castaway815 21:21, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Alive Last time we saw them they were alive and they weren't seen in Team Locke. Therefore they must be at the beach camp. --Ryan76el 23:38, 17 June 2008 (PDT)

Unknown. Richard is with Faraday on the Zodiac Raft. The rest should be unknown because they weren't seen for a long time and could possibly be with Locke at the Barracks. Jack said "You led half of our people across the island and got most of them killed". What we saw in 4x01 - 4x03 was significantly less than half the beach camp, so there can actually be less people left on the beach than we suspect. And about Gas Man... I'm not sure he even exists. In Expose his lines were given to Locke. While some background cast members who were on the show for 4 years still don't have their articles, some characters who appeared only in the Pilot but were lucky enough to have one line, are listed as survivors in all tables. Maybe there were killer by mercenaries too. We just don't know. Malachi 03:47, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

Alive I was under the impression that status is always ALIVE unless we have specifically seen their death or a character has talked about them having died or the producers have said they have died. Sort of like "innocent until proven guilty" :-) In any case, "status" seems to be causing all sorts of havoc all over the pedia. Maybe we should stop arguing individual cases willy nilly and just come up with a standard policy on the style/policies page! Also, does anyone else think it's retarded to have 'status' as a column on the location visitors page? All that belongs there is name, when they visited, and details of their visit. Their status has nothing to so with the location. Status only belongs on character pages and portal/lists of character pages. --Jackdavinci 07:54, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

  • I'm going to change them to alive as more people voted for them to be alive. --Ryan76el 08:14, 22 June 2008 (PDT)

Unknown If they haven't been seen at the beach camp, then unknown. It's possible more people were killed at Locke's camp than the 3 shown on camera. Gas man hasn't been seen since the pilot - he may have been killed in the engine explosion and not even be part of the 71 survivors. How many of them have been seen alive at the beach camp?--FlyingArrow 16:16, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

Discussion

I think that's why "Unknown" exists as a status. Otherwise, Michael, Mikhail, Isabel, and various others would be listed as "Alive," despite the facts that their deaths have been confirmed outside of the show. --Castaway815 08:18, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

Castaway815 you must not respond to other peoples votes as it saids at the top Do not respond to another user's response. --Ryan76el 08:37, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
Yeah. We wouldn't want anyone to have a discussion that might lead to a conclusion that isn't that of CTS. He isn't a mod. He can't run proper votes, and he can't set rules, especially those that unfairly favor one side or the other by forbidding discussion. I'm not trying to be mean to you guys, but, once again: Seeing that the "Unknown" status undoubtedly exists for use on this site, it makes very little sense to say that we should label people for whom we do not know the status as "Alive." This isn't about voting. It's about common sense. There is a degree of "fundamentalism" in the insistence that the only people that Locke took to the Barracks are the ones we see on screen in 4x01-4x03. As others have pointed out, Jack said Locke took "half our people" across the Island (and we didn't see nearly that many in ANY of the wide shots in question), and the producers said that Steve, who is portrayed by an actor who left the show at the end of Season 3, was also with this group. Therefore, the argument that "we didn't see them with Locke and therefore they are alive" is incorrect. I don't see why that is so hard to grasp. --Castaway815 09:15, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
  • Did you not see the rules for the straw poll? A straw poll is simply something used to find general consensus. It isn't something I made up. If you don't agree with what other users think, then too bad. That's what a collaborative wiki is. If the consensus of this vote is "ALIVE", then it will be taken to affect. Your vote isn't the only one that matters, and neither is mine. Everyone's opinion will be looked at so that we can find a fair and general consenus. Obviously our views of common sense are different. I think it's common sense to list them as alive since there is no reasonable evidence to think otherwise. When Jack said "he took half our people across the island" was an exaggeration. By the way, those aren't my rules; straw polls have been done all over LP to find consenus. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 10:52, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
  • It seems an unnecessary exaggeration. Locke, Sawyer, Hurley, Claire, Aaron, and 5 extras (Jerome, Doug, Blonde Casualty, and Red-haired Extra (plus Steve, according to producers)) makes 10. At the time of the split there were 34 total remaining survivors with the beach camp. Half would be 17 (or closer to 15, if you want to get approximate). And it was my point about Steve. He hasn't been on the show at all during Season 4, but the producers said to count him among Locke's group. To me, that indicates that there are more survivors (at least 1 for sure, and as many as 9ish) that we simply didn't see in the limited wide shots from episodes 4x01 through 4x03. The fact remains that "Unknown" status exists specifically for these types of cases, like the survivors discussed here (I have changed Craig to alive, as he was on the Zodiac). "Alive" is for people who's whereabouts and pulse are a known fact. That's why Claire and Jin are "Unknown," despite the high probability of them being alive. Also, it is against Lostpedia policy to move around or edit other people's Talk page comments, regardless of arbitrary rules set by the various posters. --Castaway815 14:04, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
I don't think Jack meant it litarly when Jack said to Locke that he took "half our people" across the Island --Ryan76el 14:22, 18 June 2008 (PDT)
I addressed this point above. --Castaway815 15:20, 18 June 2008 (PDT)


additons

Sorry if they were removed already, but the last two Tailies I put in the dark green section should be kept there for you can actually see them being kidnapped and carried the night Zack and Emma and other people were being kidnapped. Also I put the Red-haired Casualty in "unknown" because that's what she is.--Mistertrouble189 16:15, 19 June 2008 (PDT)

Scott/Steve Edits

It turns out that Christian Bowman has not been on the show since "Homecoming," as stated on his actor page on this wiki. Apparently his was the body found on the beach, and he has not been seen on the show since. Dustin Watchman, however, has continued on the show. The other characters still seem to think Scott died and Steve is alive. Scott, however, has been seen as recently as the Season 4 finale. --Castaway815 17:17, 26 June 2008 (PDT)

  • But I thought Dustin just took the role of Steve after Christian Bowman left the show. So Scott Jackson played by Dustin is dead, but Steve once played by C. Bowman but now played by Dustin is alive? I dunno.--Mistertrouble189 17:33, 26 June 2008 (PDT)
    • Actors switching characters for no real reason other than being what the producers intended to do seems ... weird quite frankly. Regardless of what the producers wanted, shouldn't what was shown on the show have a higher degree of canonity than what was once supposed to be on the show ? (Excluding bloopers, of course) ... Besides, as I asked on another page, with the current policy does it mean that whatever Darlton say goes ? I mean ... they could say tomorrow that Ana Lucia's still alive ... that wouldn't make it canon now would it ? What I mean is that, in my opinion, what's on screen should have priority when there is a canon dispute. --LeoChris 20:02, 26 June 2008 (PDT)

Scott and Steve discusses this thoroughly. I think the best explanation is that Scott is dead and the one time when Scott and Steve introduced themselves they were joking (i.e. lying). It makes the most sense out of the fact that everyone says Scott is dead but Scott's actor is alive and on the Zodiac.--FlyingArrow 12:04, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

  • Scott Jackson is dead and Steve Jenkins is alive. In their interviews it was explained that Christian (Steve Jenkins) left the show while Dustin's character died (Scott Jackson) however Christian played the corpse of Scott. But now Steve is played by Dustin Watchman. It's confusing why they did happened and no one really knows why (the cast or production team, etc.). But Steve Jenkins (now played by Dustin Watchman) is alive and Scott Jackson (formerly played by Dustin Watchman) is dead.--Mistertrouble189 17:31, 26 October 2008 (PDT)

Living and Dead Survivors

I renamed the Living Survivors section to Living and Dead Survivors, and I listed both the living and the dead survivors. I also put a lot of work into correcting the numbers - they were off by quite a bit. I added more detail to the breakdowns, which was necessary to make sure I didn't miss anyone. If you decide you need to change someone's status in that section (e.g. the ongoing debate about whether or not Jin/Michael/Scott/Steve is dead), *please* also update the numbers so that the math continues to be consistent. Thanks!--FlyingArrow 19:30, 4 July 2008 (PDT)

What happened to captured tailies?

Could someone explain what is the status of captured survivors from Anna Lucia's group? All the article states is that they were captued by The Others. Is it known whether they joined them or are still kept by force?? If they joined The Others, how were they pesuaded to do so ?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mr Important (talkcontribs) .

We really don't know at this stage. --Blueeagleislander 21:53, 11 October 2008 (PDT)
  • Mr Important- following what Blue eagle islander said, I wrote a response to your question on this the Talk:Tailies page.--Mistertrouble189 22:13, 11 October 2008 (PDT)

Standards

There was a time when this page had standards. Someone had to either die, have a line, or be mentioned by name to make this page. Now it's chock-full of random background extras, as if these extras are actually characters on the show. By including all of these random extras, we have: 1. blatantly ignored the fact that there are more extras than plane crash survivors (because of production needs), and 2. undermined the authority of this page as a database of the characters who survived the crash. This nonsense started with the rabid insistence by some fans that we include "Red-Haired Survivor" in this list because we saw her the background this one time during Season 4. This fanboy-addled logic seems to have taken on a life of its own, as now the list is absolutely riddled with non-characters, background extras, and extras who haven't been on the show for multiple seasons. What gives? As the person who originally created/did much of the major editing for this page, I am rather disappointed in its current incarnation, which is busy, mistake-ridden, and standard-free. --Castaway815 11:16, 21 December 2008 (PDT)

  • What random survivors are you referring to? The survivors included in this article have either been apart of some prominent event (such as the Zodiac raft launching, etc). These events have given these survivors merit as an "official" survivor. Since there are more than 48 background extras, there is a page dedicated to them. This page lists those survivors (both prominent and minoor) that have been given a sense of canonical merit within the Lost universe. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 19:31, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
  • No, it includes a number of randomly selected background extras of no special significance. Also, I have reversed the images of Steve and Scott, as we can all agree that Watchman now plays Steve.--Castaway815 11:36, 21 December 2008 (PDT)
  • Some extras such as SBSSG are included because they have been tagged with a fanon name that is recognized by a majority of Lost fans. Also, the Zodiac extras have merit because the Zodiac raft launching is a prominent event, and so gives these survivors merit for this page. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 19:40, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
  • The fact that SBSSG is "fanon" is EXACTLY the reason why she shouldn't be on the list. There is another section of this page for background extras RECOGNIZED BY FANS that are not "characters" on the show. Also, "being on the Zodiac raft" is no more an indicator of character-hood than is "standing on the beach when Rousseau first met the Lostaways." I mean, come on. This list intends to designate CHARACTERS. People who appear on this list should meet one standard: either by their death, spoken words, or direct mention on the show, they can't be written off/replaced by other extras (i.e. they were undeniably on the plane). Everyone on this list meets that standard except the 4 random extras and SBSSG, all of which are by no means characters.

EXTRAS NOT CHARACTERS:

Picture Name Status Section Faction Roles and Relationships
SBSSG-mini
"Sexy Blue Striped Shirt Girl" Minor, Alive. Middle Beach Camp Background character.
Steve-mini
Unnamed Minor, Unknown. Middle Zodiac raft Background character.
Lisa-mini
Unnamed Minor, Unknown. Middle Zodiac raft Background character.
UnknownMale-mini
Unnamed Minor, Unknown. Middle Zodiac raft Background character.
Redhaired-mini
Unnamed Minor, Unknown. Middle Unknown Background character.

--Castaway815 11:45, 21 December 2008 (PDT) --68.39.181.248 18:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I still don't think the red-haired casualty should be removed. She was probably meant to die along with the 3 other casualties (she was even seen in that episode in the beginning), but her being shot just wasn't on screen.--Mistertrouble189 18:55, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I hardly see the point in listing an unnamed character who's whereabouts and status are unknown and likely never to be addressed ever again. Add to that the fact that she is played by an extra, and I think you have the quintessential recipe for a non-character. "I saw ____ in the background this one time" cannot be a qualification for character-hood, otherwise there would be more than 72 survivors. --Castaway815 5:03, 3 January 2009 (PDT)

Motion to Change Some Photos

I am not sure exactly how, but there are some characters, especially Tailies (both dead and alive) that have been matched with photos, despite no evidence on the show that these background extras in fact represent the characters they are tied to in this list.

There are two background Tailies that we later see in the Others camp, so linking those pictures with specific Tailie slots makes sense. However, the German Tailender, the Blond Guy, and the Curly-Haired Guy are tagged here with photos for no real demonstrable reason other than someone decided arbitrarily to associate them with blurry members of the background cast. The same can be said of two unnamed Tailies that this list as randomly designated as characters.

I move that we change the pictures for two of the unnamed Tailies, the German Tailender, the Blond Guy, and the Curly-Haired Guy, and one of the two "died before Day 5" Tailies (the one with the extremely blurry photo) back to the generic pictures that we use for characters for whom we have no assigned face. They are all shown below.

I think we can all agree on this considering that there is no evidence or reason in favor of matching these extras with the respective characters on our list.

Picture Name Status Section Faction Roles and Relationships
Mini-Blond Guy
Blond Guy Minor, Alive. Tail The Others Background character.
Mini-Curly-Haired Guy
Curly-Haired Guy Minor, Alive. Tail The Others Background character.
Mini-German Tailender
German Tailender Minor, Alive. Tail The Others Background character.
Mini-captailie1
Unnamed Minor, Alive. Tail The Others Background character.
Mini-captailie2
Unnamed Minor, Alive. Tail The Others Background character.
Unnamed Minor, Deceased; succumbed to injuries sometime before day 5. Tail N/A Redshirt.

--Castaway815 10:57, 12 January 2009 (PDT)

  • The last two tailes were seen being carried off by the Others in the episode.
  • As for the "blurry tailie", I orginially added him to the Background cast/tailies, but it seems that he was also added to this list since he as not seen alive at all later in the episode so it can be assumed that he did not live so he was added as one of the four tailes who died before day 5 (two being Donald, the Female Tailie, and I personally believe the Male Tailie is one of the 4 but that doesnt have to be on this list. Dead or unknown is fine with me on this chart.
  • As for the German Tailender, Blond Guy and Curly-haired Guy, people assigned the faces to names since they all disapeared after day 1 and the hair matches and the man identifed as the German was seen helping people after the crash. I'm good for this though.

What everyone wants to agree on will be up to them. I'm fine with the table as it is.--Mistertrouble189 22:16, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

  • As for the last two unnamed Tailies supposedly taken by the Others, I am rewatching Season 2 right now, and if what you say turns out to be true, I'm down with keeping those pictures. As for the other 4, I think the case is pretty weak. If you go to their individual pages, none of them have assigned photos for a reason. That they may match a relatively generic description is one thing, but there is no way to know for sure until the show provides further evidence, so I recommend erring on the side of caution. I will do a rewatch of the "The Other 48 Days" and check back with you. --Castaway815 19:29, 12 January 2009 (PDT)
    • It's true those two unnamed Tailies were taken by the Others. I have debunked the notion that the "German Tailender" is the man in the respective photo here. He appears as an American ticketing agent elsewhere on the show. --Castaway815 7:35, 13 January 2009 (PDT)
  • They will do that with extras (reuse them). Rand Wilson and Fuzzy Moody were once middle section backgrounders (both left) but they had other parts (A.D.A. and a repairman) and unnamed Zodiac passenger (Steve Tanazki) appeared in a flash forward when Sun was having a baby. So it's common to have extras be a survivor, and then play another role later, like the German Tailender did.--Mistertrouble189 23:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
      • The pictures should be added back. The extra fits each describition. For the german tailer Nathan said he helped the injured and theirs a picture of a tailie helping the injured and isn't seen past day 1. The other man has curly hair which fits the curly headed man and so does the blonde man. --Ryan76el 15:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

SBSSG Moved Down Page

I have moved SBSSG down the page under the heading "Unnamed extras recognized by fans," since that area is clearly where she belongs, not on the main list of characters. This is due to the fact that her "character" is fanon (popularized by internet fans), played by a background extra (who, F.Y.I., hasn't been on the show for seasons), and was never assigned a name or killed by the writers. --Castaway815 16:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary to create an entirely separate row for "Unnamed extras recognized by fans", since only one survivor (SBSSG) fits the category. A better solution would be to put a note by SBSSG under the main survivor heading saying that she is an unrecgnized extra. It is not necessary for there to be one heading specifically for her. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 17:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I added the Red-haired Casualty.--Mistertrouble189 21:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Two more abducted tailies

Image:48days-promo27.jpg While going through promotional photos for The Other 48 Days, I saw a pic that showed an Other chasing the bald man with red tank top and another Other about to "attack" the man with curly hair and longsleeved shirt (both men are AfricanAmerican). These two should be added to the table (I have their mini-pics on my user page).--Mistertrouble189 21:11, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Living and Dead Survivors

I have been maintaining the "Living and Dead Survivors" section. It's a succinct summary of where everyone is, with a proper headcount of all 71 initial survivors. (The dog and Aaron are not included.)

I made the following changes based on last night's episode and wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything:

  • 5 survivors (Steve, Craig, 3 others) rejoined the beach camp from the Zodiac. They went from "unknown status" to "confirmed alive". (They're back to "unknown status", though... see below.)
  • Zach, Emma, and Cindy are now unknown status. All 13 of the tailies who are with the others seem to have disappeared when Locke started jumping time. So they are all now listed as "with Others but unknown status".
  • Neil died in the flaming arrows assault.
  • There were two unnamed casualties in the flaming arrows assault. (Others were also hit but not known to have died.) Since we don't know who died, I moved all of the background characters who are time traveling with Sawyer, Bernard, etc to "known location but unknown status".

Anything else?

Also, is this the best page for my headcount?

FlyingArrow 03:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Characters Moved from Unknown to Alive Status

All casualties on the show have been visually accounted for save 2 Tailies from before Day 5, and the 2 extras who got pwned last night. I'm sure we'll get shots of those extras soon enough, leaving only the 2 Tailie spots without accompanying photos.

That being the case, all characters who could not possibly be those two Tailies have been moved to the "alive" category amongst the Survivors Camp until we have some reason to suspect they've perished. The "Man on Beach" has been left in the Unknown category, because if he is added to our list of Tailie defections to the Others, it brings the original number of abductees up to 13 instead of 12 (Cindy not counting, of course). Therefore, "Man on Beach" must be either Jim or Eli, or he is one of the Tailies who died prior to Day 5.--Castaway815 18:56, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


The two extras who were killed last night could conceivably have been any of the minor/background characters. FlyingArrow 20:27, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Same Background Extra Died Twice?

Um, guys... check this out:

Picture Name Status Section Faction Roles and Relationships
Mini-blownupguy
Unnamed Minor, Deceased; killed when Kahana exploded (Day 100). Middle N/A Redshirt
Arrow Casualty2-mini
Unnamed Minor, Deceased; struck with flaming arrows. Middle N/A Redshirt
--Castaway815 05:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I've rechecked "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1," and I have confirmed now that both pictures represent a character supposedly killed over the past few episodes. Are these different actors or did they just reuse the extra? If it's the same actor, do we assume he escaped the raft, or do we assume it's an extra playing two characters (ala Watchman and Scott/Steve)? --Castaway815 05:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  • You have quite a keen eye, I would have never noticed that. It could be the extra is playing two characters. Both do have the same (or at least similar shirt) and jeans and long hair. It could be the same person! I'll watch the episode and try to see though it's kinda hard and I'm suprised you were able to get a clear screenshot.--Mistertrouble189 00:17, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm still not sure. The face doesn't look the same. If someone can get a bigger screenshot of him, then comparison could be easier.--Mistertrouble189 00:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Edward Mars aka The Marshal

This page says that Jack "euthanized" him, but this is not the case. His death was immediately caused by a gunshot to the chest by Sawyer. Jack refused to euthanize him.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by JiYeonKwan (talkcontribs) .

  • Taken from his page "Sawyer missed the heart and only perforated Mars' lung. Jack then euthanized Mars." The gunshot did not kill him, only put Edward in pain. Check out his page or re-watch the episode.--Mistertrouble189 22:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Craig dead

TheLieDeadMan5

Anyone think this dead body could be Craig ? They both have the same type of hair and clothes --Ryan76el 16:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

  • The hair looks the same, however, the shirt is not exactly the same. He was wearing a blue, button down, plaid shirt. So I don't think its Craig.--Mistertrouble189 22:05, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
ReubenGamesS5-mini
  • Just thought I'd mention that the actor of Craig, whom I've contacted on MySpace, doesn't know if his character was killed in the flaming arrow attack until the show returns to their timeline. I asked him whether if he was one of the casualties in "The Lie" and he responded
"Aloha my friends,
Its great to see your big fans of the show as for your question regarding whether I was killed,until we get back to that :story line,we will not know who in fact was killed. Fingers are crossed! I'd love to send you a signed copy of My :CD. Provide me with a mailing address and I'll send it. Hope your having a great weekend,
Chris"
--Mistertrouble189 20:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Claybomb man

Bomb Casualty2-mini Malextra4-1x21

I was looking through the background cast page and I saw this extra. Possible the same person ? --Ryan76el 14:30, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

  • I believe they're different people, the man on the right, "EZ" is depicted with a red shirt and khaki shorts whereas the bomb casualty is wearing jeans and a long-sleeve shirt, plus the hair is different. And the bomb casualty was thrown in the air when killed so its a stuntman. So they're most likely not the same man.--Mistertrouble189 23:19, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Status of 1977 survivors

I think Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Jin, Rose, Bernard and Vincent should be considered as unknown, because we don't know anything around the bomb Juliet was hitting. If it exploded, who did it kill? what happened after that? did it kill only the ones near or it blew the whole island? --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - 00:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Expanded universe/Deuterocanonical

Can we merge the colors for expanded universe and deuterocanonical characters? The deuterocanonical ones only appear on this page and expanded universe ones here and one other page (List of Others). Since they are already separated by headings I don't think they need a color each. Either we should make them both one color or simply use the orange (unknown) and red (dead) colors used for everyone else. This would not only make the key more compact but would also free up a color or two for whatever new category season 6 throws at us (there's always something new). Limitlessness 03:12, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

  • I think it's good to have separate colors for both EU and deuterocanonical, because they are both very different things. We shouldn't merge them under one color because they are both very different. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:42, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support I agree with CTS, they are different and readers have become accustomed to viewing them as they currently appear. Like the old adage says ,"if it ain't broke...Don't fix it".- MRMIKE T  C  E  15:11, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, what about using the red and orange? They are both separated from everything else under their own headings so there is no way people will confuse them with the characters who appear on the show itself. I just think that the key is oversized and if we are presented with something new in the upcoming season we'll be stuck as we've run out of colors to use. Limitlessness 04:40, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
  • I kind of agree with Limitless, the Deut and EU characters are under their own heading and they could use orange and red for their status colors instead of seperate colors to show that their Deut/EU.--Mistertrouble189 20:21, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree too. I once tried to make that change but it got put back. Menot 02:57, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • I say we leave it unless we actually need a new color for something else and we replace them with orange and red if and when that happens. Rachel P 03:14, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Alternate Timline

I personally think it's a really bad idea to include the alternate timeline. It makes the chart way too confusing. Why bother mentioning "Alive in alternate timeline" when it's presumed that ALL of these people are alive in the alternate timeline? All of the character blocks would have to be in yellow, then. I think it would make much more sense if we just stuck to the original timeline. --SethFlight815 01:06, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

  • I couldn't agree more. The whole alt timeline/yellow color needs to be removed. Too confusing at the moment.--Mistertrouble189 03:22, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
    • Disagree completely. It is an established part of the show now and needs to be included. I have added the word "only" to the key so that only characters who have died and then appeared in the alt timeline are yellow. This should clear up the confusion. Also since we know that there are differences in regards to the passengers of the two versions of the flight there is no need to make everyone who has died yellow, just those we know for a fact were on the alt timeline flight. Limitlessness 08:47, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting oppose I agree with User:Mistertrouble189, it is already confusing...i.e. Claire is she still an unknown where she has been for a while or is she now considered a new alternate timeline? The confusion is you can't have people in 2 places at the same time (only the writers of the show have that priviledge <grin>). I suggest everybody chill out for an episode or so and let's see where things are heading and also see if some of these alleged alternate timeline people/candidates are even alive. The way this show deviates anything is possible- MRMIKE T  C  E  09:39, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
    • User:Limitlessness, think about it. The page is called "List of Oceanic 815 Survivors". Since, in the alternate time period it did not crash, there were no "survivors". Everyone "survived". I understand that it is now an integral part of the show, but it just doesn't make sense to include it on this chart for a number of reasons. I'm not trying to be annoying, hope I'm not coming across that way. --SethFlight815 20:16, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
      • I gotta say I'm with User:Limitlessness. This is still a list of the survivors of the main timeline flight (Desmond hasn't been included for example). As such it should fully include the status of the characters. It just so happens that some have two statuses and I believe both should be mentioned. If the writers decide that you can have people in two places at the same time, then this site should reflect what the wrters have written not ignore it because it's a little confusing. If we did that we may as well pick another show ;-). Also I believe Limitlessness fixed the bit that's confusing. Only people who we know have died in the main timeline but as shown alive in the other are included. Sinse we don't know what happened in the main timeline to Claire she remains as orange since we don't know her to be dead (or alive). That's why she's not red or green either. Rachel P 02:30, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
        • Okay, I see what you mean. But I still don't agree. :P --SethFlight815 03:09, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • This is a list for the survivors, so it should be focused on their status in the original timeline, not the alternative timeline. Make a new list for that lol. If you really want to include their status on this list for the ALT, then just write it in their comments box. Don't make a new color that will just make things confusing. --Mistertrouble189 21:18, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I've added the template to say it includes both for now, but really it shouldn't. Like MRMIKE has given as an example. Claire doesn't work. If this needs to be added at all, it should be in a separate article. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  21:44, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I agree with SethFlight815, Mistertrouble189, and MRMIKE. The Yellow label for "alive in alternate timeline" is not necessary since it is already implied and known that every character in the original timeline would also be alive in the alternate timeline. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:16, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • That may be the case now, but A) the passengers are different so maybe not all are actually alive, and B) It is very possible that some will die in future episodes. Mhtmghnd 23:56, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
      • Exactly. So if someone does die in the alternate timeline, that will make this chart even MORE confusing. --SethFlight815 21:55, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I wish to make a counter proposal. Instead of using the yellow we simply add a new column, so that we have one for status in the main timeline and another for status in the new one. If we stick to colors relating to the main timeline (and have a note at the top saying that) there should be no confusion and we get to keep that additional bit of info for those who want to know the other timeline status of each character. Thoughts? Mhtmghnd 01:50, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting support I think that's an awesome idea. --SethFlight815 20:56, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Alright I changed those who were yellow to red and I bolded the text that said they were alive in the alt timeline...didn't add another column )not good at that lol). Also, may want to get rid of yellow and the 1977 green from the key?--Mistertrouble189 23:27, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

List of Tail section survivors & Middle section survivors

Just thought I'd let you all know that there is a discussion regarding deleting these two pages on their talk pages as all the information there is covered here. If you have an thoughts please discuss them there. No one even seems to be visiting them at all. Rachel P 04:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Separate plane sections

During the discussions to delete the List of Tail section survivors & Middle section survivors pages (which did happen) it was suggested that this page separate the characters from the three plane sections and put them under their own headings within the list instead of just listing the sections in a column in the list as it is now. This would only require a small amount of text for the new headings themselves and a slight re-shuffle. Agree? Disagree? Mhtmghnd 01:00, May 15, 2010 (UTC)

Deceased Status

It seems that there is no continuity when explaining the deceased status of characters. Boone is listed as deceased, but for Ana-Lucia and Libby, it explains how they died and links to the episode. Is there any reason for this?--Crazyoldben 23:42, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

The End

Edited the page to include the statuses of characters killed/saved in the finale. Kate, Sawyer, Claire are alive off-island, saying otherwise shows a lack of simple inferencing skills. Jack is deceased and Rose and Bernard are alive.

I'd like to suggest that Zach, Emma, and the stewardness should have added to their status: "The Others" before the status "with MiB". They weren't part of MiB's group until encouraged to leave the Temple.--Lostinideas 13:50, May 31, 2010 (UTC)Lostinideas

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