Create a New Page?
Just wondering if anyone else thinks it would be an idea to create a new page entitled "Murder" to examine specifically the vast amount of characters that have committed murder, or who have attempted to do so. There would be no need to delete or alter this page; the new page would exist seperately in order to demonstrate how commonplace murder is in Lost.
Main Characters who have murdered:
- Sayid (Twice)
- Ana-Lucia (4 times)
- Mr. Eko (at least 8 times)
- Nikki and Paolo
- Jack (euthanasia)
- Michael (Twice)
Minor Characters who have murdered:
- Christian Shephard (via gross negligence)
- Sawyer's father
- Danielle Rousseau (at least three times)
- Ethan Rom
- Mikhail Bakunin
- Anthony Cooper
- Richard Alpert
Characters who have attempted murder:
- An unidentified Other, who shot at Sawyer twice while he was on the raft
- Anthony Cooper
- Ethan Rom
Also, it can be said that even more of the main characters have accidently caused the death of another:
- Hurley's grandfather dies apparently due to the "curse" of the numbers after Hurley wins the lottery.
- When Sayid betrays Essam, Essam commits suicide.
- Tom Brennan is shot in the car Kate uses as a getaway vehicle.
- Boone causes his nanny's death by continuously summoning her up and down the stairs, which causes her to fall and break her neck
- Adam Rutherford dies when Jack chooses to help save Sarah instead
- Yemi is murdered by the military when Eko tries to smuggle the drugs out of Nigeria. This also results in the deaths of Goldie and Olu
- After Sun has an affair with him and Jin tells him to leave the country rather than kill him as Mr. Paik orders because of the affair, Jae Lee commits suicide.
- Edmund is hit by a bus and killed after Juliet cites half-jokingly that the only way he would permit her to leave to work for Mittelos Bioscience would be if he was hit by a bus.
- Claire drove the car that led to the brain-death of her mother.
- When Gary Troup hurries past the the engine, he stops in his tracks when Locke calls him, and is sucked into it.
- Due to Jack ignoring Ethan’s threat that he would kill a survivor each day he refused to hand Claire back to the Others, Scott Jackson was killed, presumeably by Ethan.
- Barbara Joanna Miller drowns when Jack chooses to save Boone over her.
- Boone dies when Locke tells him to climb into the drug smuggler’s plane when he becomes incapacitated.
- Ana Lucia incarcerated Nathan believing him to be an Other; this led Goodwin to kill him.
I can see why this page was nominated for cleanup, as it's in horrendous shape, but honestly I think it would be better as a candidate for deletion, since it doesn't seem to be about anything. It's just an arbitrary, meaningless list that's already better-covered on other pages for the most part. What, exactly, does the "life" section mean, for example? If it's any time someone saved another person's life, why aren't there hundreds more examples from throughout the show? Why on earth does it claim that Locke killed Naomi off the island? Why does it claim that Michael killing Libby and Ana-Lucia killing Shannon were "intentional"? -Silence 06:25, 17 July 2007 (PDT)
Is This A Joke?!?
I just don't understand! Why does it say Christian Shephard is not dead, when it is obvious that he is! Just because Jack thinks he is alive means nothing. And the same goes for Naomi! People say she is alive, but she is dead! But wait, there's more! People say Charlie is dead, when he is alive! I'm tired of people saying "he's dead because the producers say so" or stuff similar along that line. I remember the producers said that they would never kill him off. Unfortunatly, I do not have a source that proves that, but it is true! Very confused! -- 19:05, 17 December 2007 (PST)
- Actually Christian and Naomi are both listed as dead on this page, so I don't see what you're talking about. As for Charlie, I fairly sure he's dead, but that doesn't mean we've seen the last of him. As for the producers saying they would never kill him off, well, people in those positions wouldn't use the word never. What happens if an actor decides he needs to leave for personal reasons? Would the producers force him to stay so they can honor their promise? Dom has been working on other projects, I think it's safe to say he's not a main cast member anymore. But I guess only time will tell. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 19:16, 17 December 2007 (PST)
Why isn't Ben on here? He's killed more people than anyone (although it is possible that Eko killed more). Ben very directy killed is father and may have personally killed at least 40 other people. I'd say that it is undebatable though that he has at least killed his father directly, so he should at least have one murder, even though I think it should be far more.
- Indirect kills don't count for the purposes of the article. Ben did not personally kill those 40 people but he did kill Roger Linus. Dharmatel4 17:59, 29 January 2008 (PST)
Season 2 finale Others
Didn't Kate or Sawyer kill an other in the second season finale?
I think that the main deaths section could benefit from a clean up, perhaps being put into a table and in chronological timeline order? Maybe with images for each death? Also, I personally think that the Life section is pretty pointless, I mean you could lump everyone in there: "Everyone is alive after surviving the crash." Anyway, I think it would be better if there's a clear list of deaths and the kill count table. I'll mock something up, unless there are any objections? Gran2 03:00, 15 February 2008 (PST)
His grenade stunt has one foot on each side of the line that determines whether a kill is direct or indirect. Vote? I think it's direct (he did do it with the intent to kill)--Ainulindale 14:09, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
- Why do we need a vote? Where is there a dispute about the article, as to whether it was direct or not? Gran2 14:32, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
I'm considering expanding the "Main cast kill count" section to include characters who have been credited as a guest star in at least five episodes as well. This would allow the inclusion of characters such as Keamy, Mikhail and (hell why not) Smokey, who have appeared multiple times, and killed more people than a lot of the main cast have. Thoughts? Gran2 06:26, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
Hurley's "kill count"
Was Hurley really responsible for the deaths of Paulo and Nikki? The summary of the article says that a group (Sawyer and Hurley I think particularly) buried them which is my recollection of the episode. Also, he delivered a heart feat eulogy for them citing other reasons for their death and he made a big effort to figure out who killed them the whole episode. Mister vijay 21:53, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
- Yes. The section specifically calls to only list "direct" kills... As for as I'm concerned, Nikki and Paulo were not "directly" killed by anyone. Technically they were buried alive by Hurley and Sawyer amongst others, but they only buried them because they thought they were already dead, and that only happened because of Nikki and Paulo's own actions. I'm going to revert for now, and direct users here to discuss this. Gran2 14:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- Have removed. It has been concluded thousands of times he's not a main character. --Blueeagleislander 09:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
If you click on the episode like 3x22, you come on wikipedia. Could somebody do something to that, please!--Station7 21:00, October 28, 2009 (UTC)
Jack's kill count
I was rewatching the incident today and noticed that it looks like Jack kills 2 more dharma members offscreen during the shootout at the barracks. Its obvious he killed them when the camera was focusing on him shooting unless this was a production error. If this is the case it should be reflected that ke killed 6 dharma members instead of 4. Heres a picture of the 2 other dead dharma people. http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5290/2othersdead.png InflatableBombshelter 16:19, January 25, 2010 (UTC)
- Hmmm... to "murder" and to "kill" are entirely different. I agree that the theme of murder is very apparent and important in Lost, but I'm not sure if everyone that you have listed above has committed murder. Specifically, Juliet never really "murdered" anyone. She took appropriate action in saving the lives of Kate, Alex, Karl and Sawyer when they were behind held at gunpoint by Danny. Likewise when she killed one of the Others with a rile when they were holding Horace's wife at gunpoint. It would also be hard to say that we have seen Alpert committ murder. Who did he kill? If you are referring to Keamy, remember he didn't actually kill him...Ben did.
Men in Black's kill count
I think we should add Jacob's nemesis to the kill count list, since as of season 6 he is a main character. And since we know that he is also the monster, he is at least directly responsible for the deaths of Eko, Mayhew and Seth Norris. --Wurgel 20:34, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't all these deaths come Before the crash?
Flashsideways timeline kills
Sayid killed a couple characters in the flashsideways timeline in episode 6x06. Should we just add these to the main list or what? InflatableBombshelter 03:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
This page has some good content, but whoa, the content varies so much from section to section. An essay! And a detailed tally! And a some other, far less meaningful tallies! And then tables! These need separate articles. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 07:25, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Looking further, I see that the vast majority of the content has nothing to with "Life & Death". It concerns death, which deserves its own page, but only a small portion of the article covers the juxtaposition of life and death. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 08:23, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
Whoever cited that quote was being pretty disingenuous. Damon doesn't list life and death as "two major themes". He says the show's stakes are "life-or-death" - that they're high, that things matter. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 08:29, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
Moving to death
Clarifying an earlier edit which I'm reverting, I didn't delete any content from this page. Instead, I moved it to the "death" page (and some of that to the redemption page). Most of this page's content concerned death rather than the theme of "life and death". We should no more include such sections as "redemption and death" or "suicide" on this page than we should list all black things on the black and white page. There would even be an argument for simply renaming this page "Death," but we shouldn't because the juxtaposition of life and death is a significant theme that deserves a page. But we shouldn't undermine that theme by burying it under various other death related topics.
The only content I really removed was the "list of life moments." As another contributor noted, the list means nothing on its own. Every moment is a life moment. But I identified two categories of those moments which truly juxtapose life with death.