Talk: LaFleur

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New DHARMA characters

Do they all need the "(DHARMA Initiative)" in their names? I thought that was only for clarification among characters who share the same name as someone else.--Mistertrouble189 02:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

No, they do not all need that at the end. It's for clarification only, if there is another article with that same name. -- CTS Talk Contribs 02:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

So would Phil (DHARMA Initiative), Jerry (DHARMA Initiative) & Heather (DHARMA Initiative) be eligible for renames to remove the "(DHARMA Initiative)"? (Phil and Heather when searched redirect to user pages and Rosie has already been renamed; Paul goes to a disamg page so leave it as "Paul (DHARMA Initiative)")--Mistertrouble189 03:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Same with Amy (DHARMA Initiative) since there is no "Amy" on Lostpedia.--Mistertrouble189 03:19, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Jerry and Phil are all that's needing renaming as of now (Amy, Rosie, Paul and Heather have been taken care of)--Mistertrouble189 04:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Paul's necklace

Have we seen that necklace before?? I swear I've seen that necklace before... --Ivalum21 03:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Nope. It's the first time an ankh's been seen on the show. -- Sam McPherson T C E 03:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think I know where I've seen it...that symbol is one of the hieroglyphs in the Swan when the clock ran down --Ivalum21 04:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

No it isn't.--HaloOfTheSun 06:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Might have appeared as a hieroglyph on Smokey's door, Daniel's map, or at the temple, but not on the countdown timer. --Lanpesci 08:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Statue

The statue was a sandy color unlike the grey 4-toed statue, and also appears to be carrying an Ankh(Egyptian-(Eternal)Life) in it's right hand. Can't make out what's in the left hand. --Hugo815 03:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

- He's got ankhs in both hands. Robert K S (talk) 08:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
The color could have faded due to time or due to the weather.--Mistertrouble189 03:56, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The position of the figure, a frontal pose with the arms at the sides and the legs apart as if walking forward, is the same as that of ancient kouroi statues of ancient Eastern Mediterranean cultures. Greek kouroi were always depicted nude, and were often used to depict Apollo. Egyptian versions of this form usually have a loin cloth and a headdress, like the statue on the island. Interestingly, this form is strongly associated with depictions of Horus in Egyptian art. --Sidwood 05:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The statue has to have been built around the same time as the temple surely, given their likeness. Maybe the monster was around longer than anyone thought(The curse from opening a tomb)? - Eric Falsmin —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eric Falsmin (talk • contribs) 2009-03-05T04:03:16.

Near the Flame...(secret entrance)

Sawyer said that Horace was near the Flame station, when he was blowing up trees by the pylons. We know there is a secret entracne to the Flame (seen here in Via Domus). Are we assuming this is the same entrance as the one in Via Domus? This entrance is nearly half a mile away from the actual farmhouse, so I think Sawyer obviously knows about it. I hope we'll get to see more of the Flame basement sooner or later. -- CTS Talk Contribs 04:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Didn't think about that, nice one! Seems logical otherwise he would have just said near the fence. I wonder who he knows at the Flame (Olivia?), Sawyer says something like better not tell her where he was. --Hugo815 04:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The fence is a huge circle surrounding the barracks - saying someone is at the fence would be somewhat ambiguous. Near the Flame specifies which part of the fence. It was phrased oddly though! --Jackdavinci 08:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

More likely the statue depicts Anubis because of the pointed ears. Horus' head is smooth like a falcon's at the back, this looks more like a jackal. --rancemohanitz 20:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Flashback or Flashforward

User:The mE recently edited the article to change it from a flashforward to a flashback, leaving the comment: I think that there is flashbacks in 1974 and that the real-time is 1977 because of Jack, Hurley and Kate... However, I reverted the edit because this is wrong. The episode's initial scene leaves off directly from where the present Island branch of the main story ended, meaning that the 1977 parts are a flashforward, and the ancient times and 1974 parts are the present day story. See below.

Copied from Talk:316: Think of Lost as having one, main, continuous plot line. It starts with Oceanic 815 crashing, through the discovery of the caves, Boone's death, opening the hatch, the Tailies, blowing up the hatch, Jack/Kate/Sawyer being captured, escaping, the Others' raid on the beach, the freighter, the mercenaries, the Orcid. All of this is the "present" timeline. Then, when Ben turns the wheel, the present timeline splits into two timelines: On-Island and Off-Island. However both of these timelines are still following the same continuous plot line, just for two series of characters. So we get:

Plot line A) Ben turns the wheel, the Island starts moving through time, Charlotte dies, Locke teleports off the Island; and
Plot line B) Ben turns the wheel, the Oceanic 6 see the Island disappear, crash, get rescued, return to the real world, decide they need to go back, board Ajira 316 and reawaken on the Island.

These two are also, "present" plot lines. (Note: It now looks like A) and B) have merged into a single plot line, which is good because it'll be less confusing hereafter.) Anyways, my point is this: Anything that takes place outside of this present plot line is either a flashback or a flashforward. If it takes place before the current position in the plot, then it's a flashback. If it takes place after the current position in the plot, it's a flashforward. The opening of "316" takes place after the current place in the plot, and thus is a flashforward. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

I think it's meaningless to describe these as flash forwards or backs in this context. They're not following the traditional format. --Pennyj 05:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I hope everyone is happy with the way I changed it to "on the Island" with the timestamp as subheaders. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 06:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm a proponent of the continuous plot lines method too, but the two plot lines reconverge in this episode. If we had to choose one, it would be a flashforward, because the Sawyer plotline left off in the 3 year ago section, and because the three years later parts do not all happen after the Jack plotline leaves off. But it makes more sense to consider this a flashback/flashforward episode since it's transitional between two reconverging plotlines/timelines.--Jackdavinci 08:44, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm thinking along these lines as well. The post-FDW scene picks up right after the previously established "now" line for the time skippers. By the end of the episode, it transitions to synch up with the off-islanders' present. So whereas the O6's present skipped three years ahead between seasons 4 and 5, the left behinders' present skipped ahead three years during this episode. So after this episode, I would expect the two timelines to be 1977 and 2008. -- Graft talk contributions 09:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Between the time travel and the plotlines diverging the way they did this season, i think the whole flashforward/flashback thing is meaningless now. The way-- LOSTonthis darnisland arranged it makes the most sense and is in keeping with LP guidlines. Lanpesci 08:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it's far less confusing this way, and hopefully it will prevent the "FB or FF" arguments. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 12:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

the four-toed Statue

It definitely looks Egyptian. It looks sorta Bird-ish to me, and its holding two things in its hands. Any thoughts on which God(s) is might be? dposse 04:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it was a (jackal) egyptian god called anubis. {{SUBST:User:jdray/autosig}} 04:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

My first thought was that it was Sakhmet, the lion-headed goddess of pestilence who was worshiped to ward off plague and bad luck, which would fit on the island.

These Egyptian guesses belong on the theory discussion page, not here or in the article. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 07:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The statue has to have some sort of Latin affiliation; it is the enlightened language after all. A scientist, Doctor and part time detective; I have spent years of my life dedicating research into the LOST world.

I have to say I have no regrets! My favorite character is Benjamin Linus as he must ALWAYS be trusted (do that and you will be on the winning side!) For direct contact, E-Mail me at 125132@staffordcoll.ac.uk

About UQs ...

Alright, there's a few UQs that I feel maybe shouldn't be included, but I just wanna see what is the consencus about them.

Why haven't Rose and Bernard turned up on Jin's grid search of the island? - Exactly what says they haven't ? Sure, they're not mentionned in the 3 Years Later scenes, but neither is Daniel. Therefore, isn't the question pure speculation until we have further evidence that they haven't been found yet ?

Who is Horace and Amy's baby? - Just a normal, unimportant as of now, baby ? Asking the question is assuming it is relevant to the storyline, therefore speculative, IMO.

Why does Paul have an Ankh necklace? - As far as we know it's just a normal necklace, right ? Kind of like asking why does Sawyer wear glasses or why does Daniel have a tie ...--LeoChris 06:06, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Rose, Bernard, and any other surviving 815ers were moving in the time flashes. Since we don't know they are dead and we haven't seen them yet this is a valid question - although it would probably be better phrased just asking where those two (and any other 815ers) are. As to the baby and the necklace, both were featured fairly prominently in the episode, so should have some importance to the overall story. The baby even more so after all the issue has been made about children not being born on the island. Baby question -Yes, Rose & Bernard - reword, Necklace - eh... Lanpesci 08:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the baby question, I agree with the first poster. It should not pertain to who the baby is. We have no specific reason to suspect it should be somebody we already know. To suggest as much is speculation and theory baiting. The idea of children being able to be born on the island is a different issue and is worth asking I think. -- Graft talk contributions 09:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

You ask how Paul's Ankh relates to the child born on the island? Consider this: can it really be a coincidence that PAUL ANKA released his massive hit single HAVING MY BABY on United Artists Records in... 1974 ?!? [[[User:Middlenamewayne|Middlenamewayne]] 18:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC)]

I think the question about whether Sawyer and the others are still around for the Purge is very relevant. When they stop moving through time Daniel says they are stuck wherever they are. Three years later they have all integrated into the DI. Daniel sticks around to help build The Orchid. Why would we assume they up and leave prior to The Purge? --Lanpesci 10:03, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The point is that it's not directly relevant to this episode. It's wondering something about the future (relative to the characters' timeline), ie. the purge. Questions should ask "what happened?", not "what will happen?" (See also LP:UQ, which talks about this.) -- Graft talk contributions 10:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the UQ aobut Rose and Bernard is invalid because the episode pretty much sums up the answer; they aren't on the grid yet. "JIN: We finished grid 1-3-3 today. No sign of our people. No one. SAWYER: Well, 1-3-4 then. " So since Jin isn't finished looking, the question should be changed or deleted. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 12:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

It's currently "Where are Rose, Bernard, and the other survivors?" which I think works fine. My guess is they're all dead. But that's just a guess Integrated (User / Talk) 14:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Would a good UQ be "Why didn't Sawyer tell Juliet that Jin had found Jack Hurley and Kate?" or is that a case of 'wait till next week' ..? Integrated (User / Talk) 14:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, that and I think the obvious answer of him wanting a bit of time to get over the initial shock of seeing Kate for the first time in three years without it happening in front of Juliet. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 14:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Juliet and Sawyer's deal

Why is 'what is the deal between Juliet and Sawyer?' obviously for them to not be who they used to be? It might be, but it's not obvious. I'd like to put the question back. humpton 16:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

From the transcript: "JULIET: [Lowered voice] We had an agreement. SAWYER: Screw our agreement. He ain't never done one. I'm guessing you have. JULIET: Don't you understand that every time I try to help a woman on this island give birth, it hasn't worked?". The agreement can only have been that she wouldn't be a doctor on the Island anymore; this is not only supported by what she says here, but by the fact that she's working in the mechanics' pool, and the DI doctor didn't know Juliet was one. I don't see the need for a UQ about it. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 16:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, probably because she didn't want to be responsible for any more dead women. --Alilamba 18:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Sawyer knew Richard?

I don't remember Sawyer ever meeting Richard, yet he instantly seems to know who he is when Richard walks into the barracks area, and even knows about his apparent "eyeliner" situation. The only thing I can think of to explain this is if there was a meeting we didn't see at the army camp in "Jughead", after Juliet and Sawyer rescued Daniel from Ellie and before the next time flash. Worth noting? -- Graft talk contributions 06:32, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I can't see how that happened because they disappeared in front of Ellie. I don't remember a meeting either, and I'd think it would have made it onto Richard and/or Sawyer's articles. I love that they referenced it, though. I lol'd. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 07:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

While they never met, I'm pretty sure Juliet pointed Richard out to the group (including Sawyer) from afar in Jughead. (Locke then declared he had a conversation to finish, or something similar) Therefore Sawyer should know who he is. --LeoChris 07:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Correct. Juliet pointed out Richard to thier little group, said the line about him "always being there." Right after Sawyer saw Daniel being marched by Ellie and Locke took off to talk to Richard. --Lanpesci 08:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I could go along with that, even though it looked like Sawyer was late to that party. While Sawyer couldn't have possibly seen Richard's dark lashes from that distance, I can suspend disbelief enough to say he might have seen them out the window (in the dark, from a distance... :P ) ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 07:16, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe Juliet told Sawyer this detail to help convince Horace. ESachs 07:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess the eyeliner joke is worth it, even if it we weren't shown a face to face meeting. ;) But I think the joke would've played better if they had held off on it until after Sawyer talks to Richard. Btw, the reason I mentioned that army camp scene is because they were all shown in that same vicinity after the flash (right before Charlotte keels over), indicating they had returned to the camp after confronting Ellie. -- Graft talk contributions 08:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't seem as though they've met onscreen - but it's possible that they met 'behind the scenes' when Sawyer was at the Hydra. --Jackdavinci 08:38, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

It is worth noting that Sawyer is far sighted (from way back in Season 1), hence why he is seen with his glasses whilst reading throughout the episode. Sawyer could have had a good vision to see Richard from the distance. Obviously not so good to see his dark lashes, but to at least recognise him when he was approaching the Barracks. Phobia27 20:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The eyeliner joke was definitely worth it! ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 12:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it deserves a UQ ? Integrated (User / Talk) 14:12, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Nah. It was just a mechanism to share the joke, IMO. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 14:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

UQ about Olivia

"What happened to Horace's wife Olivia?" This needs to be changed to what happened to Amy because Olivia is after Amy, not before her. We see Olivia and Horace married when Ben comes to the island. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 11:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC) Never mind. My mistake. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 11:17, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Olivia was with Horace in the 60's before he came to the Island and still with him when Ben arrived on the Island. Ben was 11 then, and if born in the early 60's, should put his arrival to the Island at or before 1974. Judging by Richard's appearance when he first met 11 year old Ben, that was prior to when we see him in 1974. So Amy was most certainly after Olivia.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bw29 (talk • contribs) .

That's why I struck it out and said never mind. We aren't supposed to delete talk text, but we can strike it out when we recognise we made a mistake, as I did. I'm tired. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 17:55, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

And Bw29, please don't move the coding on my post again. The strike out wasn't intended for the entire part, just the part I was marking out. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 17:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Horace/Horus

Horace , the leader of the Dharma Initiative on the Island has a similar sounding name to the falcon-headed Egyptian God, Horus. The literary term for this device is called homonym. Horus carried an ankh in depictions of him. --Kb1pkj 11:54, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Theory page, please. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 13:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Good spot - should go on Horace's trivia I guess? Integrated (User / Talk) 14:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Rerun next week?

So why is there no new episode next week, any info on that? Part of the hype about going to 16 episodes per season and starting in January was the promise that the season would be continuous with no reruns or breaks. Anyone know what happened? --Minderbinder 13:19, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

IMDB.com shows a rerun of LaFleur. --SDSpivey 15:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Any info on why no new episode as originally planned? --Minderbinder 16:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I expect it is because of new mid-season replacements debuting and they decided to make room for them Tymes 20:03, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

LaFleur, Lawman. (Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid)

In Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, they are running from LaFleur, the most tenacious lawman in the west, famous for wearing a straw hat. I forget his first name, but it may have been Jim. In the movie Mallrats they referenced this with the Mall Security guard being named Art LaFleur, who wore a straw hat. I'm just saying, watch for Sawyer to put on a straw hat sometime soon ;) Actually, I think he already had one at one point. Anyway, I don't think it's a coincidence that "LaFleur" is the Law in New Otherton.BlueBeard 13:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid are pursued by Joe Lefors. La Fours is the "law" in Mallrats. That being said, I agree that LaFleur is a nod to Lefors. New Daddy 17:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Lafleur

In a past episode, didn't we see the corpse of Lafleur? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LOSTHEADACHE (talk • contribs) 2009-03-05T08:29:27.

No Integrated (User / Talk) 14:13, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Sawyer was filmed as being in the coffin as an alternate ending for last season, however, it shot was just made to prevent spoiler leaks. --CharlieReborn 20:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Poll - Statue = 4-toed?

Since people continue un-linking the statue to 4 toed one, let's have a poll. Should the "giant statue" in the episode be linked to the 4-toed statue? I personally think yes. - TheAma1 17:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

No: Because of difference in color (Sandy vs Grey), location (Orchid is NE of camp, 4-toed is NW), terrain (4-toed is near large mountains, new one is on flat terrain), and culture (whatever ancient civilization(s) lived on the Island had get respect for it and would likely build more than one monument). --Hugo815 17:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Wait and see. I think it's fairly certain they are the same. I disagree with the terrain because they are looking at the arse, not the heels, so they are higher up. However, the colouring is a good point, and I'd advocate holding off adding the link for a while to see if it's cleared up. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 18:01, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Why not just make one of the unanswered questions something along the lines of "Is the statue the same as the four toed foot"? We don't know either way, but we can certainly mention the possibility since it is so obvious. --Minderbinder 19:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, without a doubt I'm getting a little tired of how fans can't take a hint. There are some things on Lost that are ment to hint at mysteries that were raised before on the show, in the clearest of ways. The question that should be asked is did the writers intend to reference the well-established mystery of the four-toed statue? I don't think anyone would argue that the answer is yes. Therefore, any other explanation, although very interesting, should be considered a theory and should not affect the article. --CharlieReborn 19:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Of course, the difference in color result just from the fact that the full statue was CGI'd and they did a pretty bad job. The terrain looks different because they're at the Orchid and needed to show the statue somehow, so they came up with a not-so-smooth transition from the Orchid jungle to the open ocean (as shown in the background). --MacCutcheon – Talk? 20:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Security Center

Didn't they mention something about the screens watching the polar bears? So wouldn't it be the same as the ones from I Do (etc)? And need this link? I wanted to make sure before I (or someone) changes the link with this one: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hydra#Surveillance_room --Alilamba 18:22, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Remember they ran from Security to where Horace was drunk? I doubt they were on Hydra. It has to be a different, but similar, place behind the sonic fence in New Otherton. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 18:25, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Plus, I think they were joking about the bears. --Hugo815 18:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

True dat. Nevermind :) --Alilamba 18:29, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I think they might have been joking about them getting out (which they did, which makes it even funnier, and foreshadowing), but I don't think it was a joke they could see them. I think that station was probably part of DharmaTel. ---- LOSTonthis darnisland 18:34, 5 March 2009 (UTC)