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Talk: Happily Ever After

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Press release

Press release was posted today: http://www.abcmedianet.com/assets/pr/html/033110_01.html cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 21:10, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks.  Robert K S   tell me  20:39, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Flash-sideways?

In the infobox for the episode, why do all the sideways episodes have it as "Flash-sideways"? There used to be no hyphen, which looks better IMO. Same goes for the Flashforwards. Those were also changed. Anyone know why? (Kdc2 02:28, April 7, 2010 (UTC))

Producers spelled it as such in interviews. cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:33, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
The producers themselves, or the random journalist who typed up the interview? --LeoChris 02:41, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
They both need to be changed back I think... or at the very least, the flashforwards.(Kdc2 03:02, April 7, 2010 (UTC))

"Flash sideways" is the noun form ("This is a flash sideways"). "Flash-sideways" is the adjective form ("flash-sideways reality"). Pretty standard rule for hyphenation applicable to all two-word adjectives.  Robert K S   tell me  06:51, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, the better question is whether this is really a flash sideways at all for Desmond, in the same way that his "flashbacks" in 3x08 and 4x05 were not really flashbacks but were rather time travel for Desmond's consciousness. In those episodes, the "flash" sound effect was omitted from the transitions. Ditto here--the typical flash-sideways sound effect was not heard. Desmond apparently was traveling between realities.  Robert K S   tell me  06:55, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Well, "Flashes Before Your Eyes" was a flashback. Just one that flashed back to the time travel. --Golden Monkey 07:46, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, the flash-sideways sound effect was played just before the last transition (from Sayid to Penny) Jbillones 13:37, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Because at this point, he wasn't switching realities anymore. He stopped doing so when Widmore's experiment was over. But until that no sound was played. Personally, I think this was brilliant by the sound crew. No sound means he's making a mind-travel, sound means he's not. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 07:28, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Daniel's Accent

In the bloopers section his American accent is listed as a blooper due to his two parents being British. This isn't necessarily a blooper considering he was in Los Angeles and as far as we know, could have been raised there his whole life.--HaloOfTheSun 03:14, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Uh, someone already removed it, so never mind. But someone will probably try to add it back, so~ --HaloOfTheSun 03:16, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Removed first episode to end in flash-sideways world. LA X part 1 ended in it.LEHLegacy 03:41, April 7, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
The major blooper isn't his accent; it can be easily explained as it was above. What is really weird is Faraday's dark complexion. With parents light and blue-eyed like Widmore and Eloise, it'd be almost impossible for him to be born with such dark hair and such deep brown eyes. Fredgie 09:45, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
        • GENETICS! Going on 20 years of giving writers excuses to design characters differently than their parents.--Gibbeynator 11:28, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Jeremy Davies found it difficult to fake an English accent. Similarly you should ask why did Richard's accent change from Cuban to American after so many years and not British? Is it because Jacob brought many Americans to the island over the years and thus his constant exposure to Americans made this happen? Why would Jacob do that? And why is both Jacob's and original MIB's accent American? -- Jodon1971 12:51, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Besides, Charles Widmore's accent is Australian (Alan Dale's natural accent), not British. There is no reason why Widmore can't be Australian but a long-time resident of the UK (explaining Penny's accent and the fact that Widmore has a London residence). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spikebrennan (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T09:00:46.

I'm Australian. I would not have picked Dale's accent as Australian until it was pointed out to me. He speaks a natural educated English but somewhat more toffee than a Queen's English Adelaide speaker or some parts of Melbourne. But its not at all obvious. In this role I'd pick him as a London businessman possibly a couple of steps above his origins (class wise). Eloise on the other hand speaks with a decidedly working class English accent but putting on airs. Some English people will be able to pin her accent. I just checked and Dale is actually a New Zealander so his Widmore accent probably wasn't much of a stretch for him. Still he's been doing the successful businessman role forever. The hardest part is that Dale has presumably lived in the States for years and aussies and New Zs tend to pick up american accents very easily. In general I've learnt to accept bad or inappropriate accents because they are everywhere. Certainly not blooper land.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   14:24, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

My apologies. I'm American, and we dumb Americans tend to regard New Zealand as not really a distinct country from Australia, sort of like how we dumb Americans tend to regard Canada as not really a distinct country from the United States. Spikebrennan 15:03, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

No need to apologise. We know how you think better than you know yourselves. We know less than you know about the States (of course) but more about the rest of the world than you would dream is knowable. We have to because we aren't the centre of the known universe. Australians regard New Zealand as sort of a backward, mini version of us but so lacking in significance that we don't really care. We like you a lot tho coz you make grouse TV shows full of Australian actors!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   15:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I'm Irish. The actress who plays the elder Eloise (Fionnula Flanagan) is also Irish. A few of the words she pronounces still have what I would consider a native Irish inflection (probably only discernable by people from Ireland). Frequently, a very posh upper class Irish accent can be mistaken for an English one, especially if an Irish person was educated in England. Her accent would come across as English for that reason, which is consistent with her background (but not perhaps her character's). The teenage Eloise maintains the half-Irish / half_English quality (In spite of the excellent Alexandra Krosney being American). The middle-aged Eloise (Alice Evans, whom I also like) loses this quality and her accent is distinctly "English", which would be consistent with the actress's background. Should a lack of consistency between the actors who play the characters of Widmore and Hawking, and the respective accents of those characters, be considered a blooper? I don't think it should, especially if the producers made a concerted effort to overcome this problem. It remains to be seen if this was the case with Daniel Faraday/Widmore. -- Jodon1971 15:44, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

About Alan Dale's accent - I haven't noticed it either until "The Package" (S06E10). While talking to Zoe, his Geophysicist, moments before Jin's appearance, Widmore slips out the word "infirmary" in a way only an Antipodean would. Fredgie 05:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Regularly Spoken Phrases?

Someone put Charlie's line, "I've seen something real. I've seen the truth," as a regularly spoken phrase. I honestly can't remember hearing that any other time, and I checked the phrases page and it's not on there. Anyone else have any idea who might have said it before? Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

While not exactly a regularly spoken phrase, Charlie's line reminds me of John Locke's description of the smoke monster when he first encountered it: "I've looked into the eye of this island, and what I saw was beautiful." Both lines refer to aspects of the island/the island itself, and how it is held in high esteem, even by those who don't fully understand it. Patrickbrownfield 06:00, April 8, 2010 (UTC)PatrickBrownfield

That's a real stretch. It's not at all parallel, nor even similar. The only similarity is the coincidental "...I('ve) [a conjugation of the verb "see"] something..." With that vague of a pattern, I'm sure there are tons of others we can call recurring phrases. But they're really not except in someone's imagination. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

Best episode summary sentence EVER!

"Sayid comes up and breaks some guy's neck and tells Zoe to run." --Frakkin Toaster 04:18, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Trek reference?

I wasn't gonna say anything, but someone added Dr. Manhattan, so I'll say the other direct-indirect reference. "The Inner Light" was an episode of Star Trek:TNG, in which Captain Picard is knocked out by radiation from a probe, and wakes up a different man. He lives a whole lifetime in the space of 20 minutes, and when he wakes up, he remembers the whole thing and is profoundly affected by it. Given that "The Constant" was confirmed by TPTB to be heavily influenced by another Picard-centric TNG episode, and given the similar "what-if" themes of both "The Inner Light" and tonight's episode, I am pretty sure that it was intentional. Include?--Frakkin Toaster 05:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I say no. Direct references only. -- Clayburn 05:54, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think you should send that in as a question for the next LOST podcast. Seriously, I'd like to know the answer! DesmondHumeWillBeMyConstant 23:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Removed as having no direct reference(s) in the episode, also because the reference referred to is a trope and so common in all forms of SF that there are literally countless examples - so why pick these 3?    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   00:52, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Kane--removed? It was never there in the first place. The idea is common, and not only in SF---it's the basic premise of "It's A Wonderful Life," as well. I think it's a direct reference because another Desmond episode, the Constant, was confirmed to be based on another Picard episode. I don't do podcasts, but if someone asks, I would like to know if they confirm it as a reference. Never mind, I see someone did add it, but you removed it. Contact is a stretch, but I am sure they had the TNG episode in their minds as they were writing this one. --Frakkin Toaster 00:57, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'll be happy to submit the question to Darlton for the podcast. Will report back if anything comes of it. DesmondHumeWillBeMyConstant 03:55, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
* Contact (Jodie Foster) 1997,Star Trek: The Next Generation S5E25 "The Inner Light": Although Desmond spends only a few seconds unconscious in the room, there is a simultaneous longer experience in another timeline/reality. (Movies and TV)

Last line

Does Desmond want to "show him something" or "show them something". Will he be trying to give the experience to all 815ers or does he think he knows who Charlie's match is and wants to track down Claire?--Rdicker 05:51, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Clearly that line is "I just need to show him something". Listened to it several times to be sure. Hatchbanger 05:57, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Show "them" something. Marc604 06:00, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • The real question is why does he need the passenger list and how is he going to use it, if it is something he can use in the OT or not? -- AlexDeLarge 12:11, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • If Desmond actually says "show him something" it probably means Desmond wants to show Charlie that Claire (Charlie's vision) exists, since they met each other at baggage claim (Desmond and Claire), and Desmond now suspects both he and Charlie can make their visions a reality (after Desmond met Penny in the FST). -- Jodon1971 12:35, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sounds like "them" to me - why would he need the whole list of names just to tell Charlie something? And just a pet thing - how can someone say "Clearly that line is" when it isn't clear at all - at least a number of people think its "them", so even if that is wrong - it's not "clearly".    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   13:25, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • OK, I humbly stand corrected. Apparently a good nights sleep has cleared up my hearing. Listening to it again this morning Desmond does seem to say "them", not "him". Hatchbanger 14:43, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I suppose, Desmond means all our Island heroes flying with the plane. He wants perhaps to connect them agaon with each other. So if they will "remember" the parallel reality, they could... but what?... --Kosmomerz 20:26, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I've confirmed at ABC's website Episode Guide that the last line is indeed as many people thought, "I just need to show them something". Now I believe the questions are what (in the manifest) will he show them? and who are them?. - Bougleux 05:59, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think the manifest isn't what he's going to show them, but a way to find the them. Hawkdeath 09:52, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • A few things are leading me to believe Desmond's goal is to give the other 815ers near death experiences, in an effort to show them the same aspects of the main timeline that he gained access to when Charlie gave him one. Thus the manifest is indeed to locate the other passengers. It just seems to fit with the way he said "show them" which was eerily similar to the way charlie gave him a choice in the car before driving them both into the ocean. Also, I wonder if anyone else felt that Desmond's final line was, well, just plain creepy. The look in his eyes, half open mouth even after he's finished his sentence, and plus the fact that he's strangely lit from below which just screams weirdness, at least to this viewer.--Rappaccini 18:29, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tale of Two Cities

Two episodes have no scenes on the main Island--whoever added the third as A Tale of Two Cities forgot about the book club scene. I fixed it. --Frakkin Toaster 06:46, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Penny Milton?

Someone put in the Cultural References section that Penny's last name in the FST is Milton. I'm pretty sure it was Widmore. Am I wrong on this? Gefred7112 07:39, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Yes.  Robert K S   tell me  07:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
So how does that work? They fixed the inconsistencies with Daniel's last name, and they just couldn't bear for everything to make that much sense? If Penny's not married (which I assume she's not), how does she change from a Widmore to a Milton? Gefred7112 08:16, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't Daniel say that Penny was his half-sister? ∇φ 08:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
We don't know who Penny's mother is in the first place, it could be her mother's maiden name. --Phryrosebdeco23 08:44, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
Penny's "new" surname, Milton, is a sure reference to Paradise Lost. It is yet to be determined where is said paradise - if the island or not - and whether it was or wasn't lost - which timeline wil eventually "win". By the way this should be big, as the authors are very fond of heavy references and John Milton would be a major one. Kinda weird it's been missing so far.Fredgie 09:55, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • She could be doing the same thing (in this FST) as Susan Sarandon or Jeri Ryan, keeping the surname of their first husband, even though they have been divorced for years. --AlexDeLarge 12:14, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Given that Penny has a mother who is not Eloise, it seems logical that she perhaps was raised by her mother, as opposed to Widmore in the original timeline, hence why she would have her mother's name. And since Widmore's family circumstances are different in the FST (married to Eloise), a different childhood situation for Penny seems logical. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jeffcutt72 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T10:14:39.
  • Are we certain that Milton is, in fact, Penny's surname? When we first heard the name read off the guest list, I thought it was referring to a different woman named Penny, and that Desmond was just reacting to hearing the name. Of course, in retrospect it does seem that it is probably Penny on the guest list, but has there been any official confirmation anywhere? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Undomiel27 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T15:18:30.
    • Desmond mentions that he heard the name Penny from the guest list and Daniel immediately understands who he's talking about. I think we're definitely supposed to infer that Penny Milton (aka Penny Widmore in the original timeline) is THAT Penny. If not, Daniel probably would have said, "Well, I don't who that Penny is... but coincidentally, I have a half-sister named Penny." DesmondHumeWillBeMyConstant 23:27, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Simmons?

Can anyone confirm for me that it is Simmons that gets cooked in the solenoid chamber, or if not whether that technician has a name, I couldn't catch it and took the name Simmons from the cast list.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   08:32, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

That guy?

When Desmond and Charlie are driving to the event, the screen pans over to see this guy walking. I paused my dvr but I couldn't tell who he is. It also showed him on the Untangled. Anyone know who that guy is? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Phryrosebdeco23 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T03:42:58.

  • If you're on now, can you give me a rough time estimate of where the scene is? I have it here HD. AlaskaDave 08:45, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • 25 minute mark :) --Phryrosebdeco23 08:47, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
      • Yup, I just got it, though its the 19:10 mark for me. It's the guy walking with the backpack and white shoes, before Desmond and Charlie crash. Hmm, no idea who he is. I bet he jogs though. AlaskaDave 08:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • 19:10 it's a really bad edit. Possibly to show the Marina b4 they "fall" in. It's Mr Nobody. He's probably asking for his Cheque (check) as we speak. There's nothing at 25 - they're in the hospital.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   08:52, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sorry I have low tec dvr lol. I figured he may have been somebody because they even showed him on the Untangled, which I found weird.--Phryrosebdeco23 08:54, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • Could've just been a random edit on the Untagled bit, maybe? AlaskaDave 08:58, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I thought it was a bit odd how it lingered on him. Maybe we'll find out who it is in another fs. Hawkdeath 09:53, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • I also thought it was a bit strange how the camera swerved towards him as the car turned and stayed on him just long enough for emphasis. He's also shown again in a few shots later, this time from the other angle once the car is in the harbor(and strangely doesn't seem to react to the car being in the harbor). That said, my immediate thought was that this was a "Hitchcock" moment by someone on the production. Anybody who can recognize the crew able to verify this? Map66 14:04, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • They were just showing marina... Krzycho 17:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla

The event planners don't say "Tesla, Nicholas" they say "Pepper, Nicholas". I think this cultural refrence should be removed, what you guys think? Am I hearing wrong? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Impheatus (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T08:13:34.

I definitely heard Tesla, Nicholas. I even backed up and checked while I was watching. I'll go back and check again now. --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   13:47, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well apparently my hearing was not working last night... That 's really too bad, it would have been such a cool Easter Egg. --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   13:56, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Could somebody with closed captioning (mine is broken) put the complete list of people mentioned at the party in the trivia section? Seems like a fairly important and obvious thing to do. I believe one of the names mentioned is the name of one of the crew as well...--Jackdavinci 05:29, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Angstrom

I removed the following entry in Cultural references because there was no direct reference to either Anders Jonas Ångström or even the Angstrom Unit. Interesting tho it may be the episode page is not an encyclopedia of every indirect issue that it may raise.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   09:58, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Anders Jonas Ångström: (1814-1874) This Swedish physicist was a pioneer of spectroscopy and created a chart of the spectrum of solar radiation that expresses the wavelength of electromagnetic radiation in the electromagnetic spectrum in multiples of one ten-millionth of a millimetre. This unit of length subsequently became known as the Ångström unit. (Science)
  • No It's an more obvious reference than that character in some books --LOST-Hunter61 10:21, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • well it was replaced with the comment "of course it is". I may have missed it, but I'm hardly convinced. Could someone tell me where the Angstrom unit was discussed in the episode. I really don't think that a mere reference to a "volt" or the "sun" or "jogging" should give rise to a cultural reference. Convince me!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   10:24, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • The scientists in the story probably named it for the physicist. The authors of the story probably named it for the literary reference. Both are valid reasons to list both in the recap, aren't they? --Jbillones 13:45, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

There is absolutely no way that the naming of the rabbit was not intentional as a tip of the hat to Angstrom the physicist. Electromagnetics is at the core of time travel! I'm not the one who originally wrote the reference in this article, but I am very much in agreement that this is a direct reference. As to the author Angstrom, that's quite a stretch, and I don't think it should be included. --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   14:06, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

It was intentional, and thus a reference worth mentioning. Does that not mean anything? The whole reasoning behind the cross reference systemon the site is to refer to the Science Portal on Lostpedia. How does it not make sense for a casual reader of the site to not be given notice that there is an entire article devoted to the thematic relevance of science to the series, and to realize that the name of the rabbit in this very episode fits into the scientific theme of the show? --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   14:17, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I initiated the Jonas Angstrom reference. I knew the name because of the angstrom unit, thats why I included that reference (its a measurement like an inch or millimeter, used on the atomical scale and in spectroscopy). I didn't know his early studies were in terrestial magnetism until I wikipedia'd him, but I definitely think its a neat connection worth noting. I also believe it could be argued the Rabbit in novels was named after Jonas Angstrom. --Cgarduno 14:44, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Unanswered Question

  • How does the "time-travel" machine work?
Can I remove this from the Unanswered Question section? It seems to make a lot of assumptions... like that there is a time travel machine! All I saw was a giant electromagnet, and Widmore saying that he wanted to test Desmond to see if he could survive an electromagnetic field that big. Nobody said anything about a "time travel machine" anywhere in the episode that I saw... --Maelwys 10:52, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Please remove    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   10:57, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did Desmond receive the large scar on his forehead?
    • He got it during the car accident. Phobia27 14:40, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Are Eloise and now Desmond somehow aware of the alternative time line?
    • Yes of course, that was pretty much the entire point of the episode. Phobia27 14:40, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I removed the question "Why is Desmond the "only man to survive the catastrophic electromagnetic event" when Locke and Eko were in same place at that time and they too survived?" for obvious reasons: Widmore said "that man is the only person I'm aware of in the world who has survived a catastrophic electromagnetic event". With Locke and Eko (and Charlie) dead, Desmond is the only one left. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Francisonfire (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T17:30:47.
    • I won't add the question back right now because that type of question is better suited to Desmond's page I think (Actually, it probably already is asked there in some form), but just for the record: Locke and Eko were NOT at the center of the discharge. Only Desmond was, and that's probably what Charles meant when he said "catastrophic EM event" Remember, Desmond was unstuck in time by his experience in the discharge; nobody else experienced side effects related to the electromagnetism except for Desmond.MattC867 15:06, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding "Penny's mother"

  • Um.. a question "Who is Penny's mother?" definitely not raised by this episode, has been a UQ of the series for several seasons now. If someone is trying to imply Penny might have a different mother in this timeline - that's pretty much definitely wrong. --Integrated (User / Talk) 20:25, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm going to ask that people stop adding this question. The question of Penny's mother is in no way related to this episode, it is a question about Penny relating to several seasons ago. Please either post a counter argument here or stop adding it. --Integrated (User / Talk) 10:20, April 8, 2010 (UTC)


Hay guys. I added a bit to the Unanswered questions section earlier tonight asking whether the flash sideways Widmore and Eloise had actually ever been to the island, but noticed it's been removed. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas why? I'm fairly new to this and wondering if I missed something? Seems like a fair question though..--professorrev 22:59, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I didn't remove it but I presume it's because we know Widmore and Eloise were on the island in both timelines, presuming the detonation of the bomb caused the timeline to split. When the bomb was detonated, Eloise and Widmore were both on the island. Phobia27 23:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes. I think this is making a fairly big assumption that Eloise and Charles may have never been to the island. That seems too implausible --Integrated (User / Talk) 00:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • What will Desmond show to the Passengers of Oceanic Flight 815?
    • Basically a 'what happens next' question, but I thought it was pretty obvious; the visions that Charlie showed Desmond. Phobia27 23:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
      • My two cents is that this one is valid. It's not about something that is going to happen, it's about something that was mentioned, and obviously Desmond has a specific idea about what he's going to do. We're asking "what is desmond thinking" rather than "what will desmond do?". I won't re-add it unless others agree. --Integrated (User / Talk) 00:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Do Charlie knows something about the Flash-sidways?
    • He has told us everything he knows, that there's another universe out there and you can get glimpses of it under certain circumstances. Phobia27 23:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Removed

  • Why didn't Sayid kill Zoe? - Easy assumption, there was no need to - he's not a total psychopath who kills for no reason.
    • I agree to removal, however a total psychopath/sociopath might be exactly what he is now. A definition of sociopath and a partial one for psychopath is a person who has no emotional compunction about the crimes they commit. This is exactly what Sayid complained to "Locke" about just a few hours previously. He is however still a trained soldier and there was simply no purpose in killing Zoe and likely some purpose in not killing her - like fear.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   10:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Why did Desmond wake up knowing what to do on the Island? - Don't know what this means. He was very unclear what to do when he awoke --Integrated (User / Talk) 00:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect blooper

I saw someone claimed Desmond not wearing a ring in this episode is blooper/continuity error. Whoever wrote that surely missed the point with this episode, didn't they ? --Donvercetti 11:26, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • No because he was wearing such a ring on the flight when he sat with Jack.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   11:58, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • So wouldn't that make the blooper that Desmond was wearing a ring on the flight? Because he's obviously not suppose to be wearing one now? Would the blooper not go on LA X?--WhyDidntUKnow 12:59, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
      • It goes on both: LA X for having the ring and this episode for not having the ring. --Golden Monkey 13:01, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
        • It should only go on LA X, since Desmond is not actually married, as we saw last night. Not having the ring is correct, so it's not a blooper. Having the ring is not correct, so it is a blooper. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
        • Did they show that he's not married at all, or is it just that he's not married to Penny? Beelzebubbles101 08:29, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
          • It's a blooper because it's incorrect with LA X, which in turn is incorrect with Happily Ever After. Not having the ring is a blooper because Desmond had a ring in LA X; having the ring is a blooper because he does not have a ring when he gets off the plane. Both sides are bloopers. --Golden Monkey 16:33, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
            • That would mean that any time there is a blooper, we'd then have to post another blooper on every following episode for that original blooper not reoccurring.--BrouhaJoe 14:28, April 7 2010

A blooper is something that the producers did not intend on doing. We don't know yet if this is the case with the ring. I suspect it's not. I suppose we could add it now as a blooper and delete it later if turns out to be intentional. --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   15:36, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I feel it is intentional. There was something up with plane Desmond. And it's not like Desmond's actor wouldn't have mentioned the inconsistency. He's wearing a ring in one scene, and then the limo driver clearly points out that he's not wearing a ring. There's a reason for it, and we'll find out eventually. -- Clayburn 17:42, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • I agree it was intentional. Desmond was at least still part of his flash forward at that time, or flashing somehow. Iamlost23 19:02, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • I think that's why they made such an issue all the way through the episode of pointing out that Desmond had nothing metallic during the flashsideways. They seemed to be drawing attention to it. There's more to this than meets the eye methinks --professorrev 22:54, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Charles & Eloise both mention to Desmond he has no family. One possibility for wearing the ring on the plane is that Desmond doesn't want uninvited attention from women when he travels. (admittedly, this is a ploy more often used by women) He reinforces to George he's not looking for companionship, although moments before he invited Claire to share his ride. Tough one, I agree a continuity error belongs on LA_X. Duncan905 18:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • The writters intended for Desmond to be single and not wearing a ring, if there is an error when looking at the FST as a whole, then the error is that Desmond was wearing a ring when he shouldn't have been. That means the only mistake they made was to put a ring on his finger in LA X, which means there is no blooper here.--WhyDidntUKnow 19:11, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Another Incorrect Blooper

  • Removed the Charlie Story about the flight blooper. Charlie's story may be inaccurate but at worst he uses artistic licence to embellish his description of the flight. It was, after all, a romantic story. Alternatively he lied or got some of the details wrong. Not a blooper.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   01:04, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
*Charlie explains to Desmond that Kate and Edward Mars were sitting two rows in front of him before he went to the lavatory to swallow his heroin. However Charlie was sitting two rows behind Jack, just as he was in the original timeline and can be seen in wide angle shots and when Jack gets up to go to the restroom. It's not until after Charlie is arrested that he is moved to the same area of the plane as Kate and even then it was much further than two rows. ("LA X, Part 1")
    • Erm, clearly it is a blooper. FACT - Charlie is sitting 2 rows behind Jack at the start of the episode on the opposite side of the plane. He got some of the details wrong or artistic lisence of whatever you want to call it is up to the reader to determine. We just write the facts. --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 07:12, April 8, 2010 (UTC) --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 07:12, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • A blooper is something that the producers did not intend on doing. We cn't know that this wasn't intended to deliberately show Charlies character and personality in full flight. It's not about it being an erro which I acknowledge - it is whether it is unintentional and there is no evidence that it is because it comes filtered by a character. He got the detail wrong, how many times do we get a detail wrong when we are relaying information? Also the summary is what you call a "Fact". The rest of the page is interpretative. Not everything is as it seems at first light!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   07:20, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Stop reverting my edit until more people weigh in on this. I added it, we can agree to disagree but it should stay so more people can voice an opinion. If it's not there then they won't. Let's leave it for everyone else to decide.--Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 08:27, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
      • I'm totally with you on this. It is for that exact reason that I don't like the way certain editors indiscriminately butcher other people's work prematurely. I know it is "Lostpedia policy" but that doesn't mean it has to be abused. Maybe the SysOps should update their policy to allow edits to have a limited lifespan before they get removed. -- Jodon1971 10:51, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Also i don't see how they could have intended it. Listen to the dialogue of the scene. Charlie clearly says he was sitting behind Edward Mars who looked at him as if to know he was carring drugs, he got spooked by this and so went to swallow it. However before he went to swallow his drugs we SEE HIM sitting 2 rows behind Jack just as he was in the original timeline and it's not until he's arrested he is sitting anywhere near Edward. I hate bloopers just as much as you probably do but look at my edit history. I've added about 50 bloopers over the years, argued many that were not, removed a lot and called for a Lostpedia guidline on what should and shouldn't be a blooper. I'm not saying i'm never wrong, just that i put a lot of thought into it and consider how it couldn't be a blooper but on this occasion i don't see an "out" --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 08:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • No attack on you intended, thus I don't need to check your history! I don't remember removing twice - I'm sorry, I must have removed not finding any discussion from you here. Maybe I missed it. Still think our Charlie is a bit out there - especially in these scenes and invention or embellishment is more than possible - or even drug paranoia. This is the guy who can score a girl by giving her a jar of (no)peanut butter! If there is an explanation which wouldn't be an outright mistake then it's not what I would call a blooper.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   09:06, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • It's not a blooper because it's not a production error. If, when they were staging the scene in "LA X" Dominic sat in the wrong chair, that would be a blooper. He sat in the correct chair, and there is an inconsistency between Charlie's story and what 'actually happened'. Not every inconsistency is a blooper. -- Jbillones 15:15, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Yes Another possibility - aren't "marshalls & prisoners" pre-boarded on flights? Charlie would've walked past Mars, making eye contact & then felt "pegged". He was telling a story (this portion being only a setup to the important part of the tale) & I'd allow room for 'artistic license' & his state of mind. Duncan905 18:41, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Episode Summary Format?

Doesn't the way this article is written (dividing the Flash-Sidways and On Island events into two seperate parts) kinda go against the point of the entire episode? I think it's clear (although I expect this will be ignored due to lack of absolute certainty) that Desmond's mind is doing it's conciousness shifting thing again, like on the freighter. He get's put in the electromagnet, he starts experiencing the FST. He faints when he touches Penny and shifts back to the island, but having had all those experiences agrees to help Widmore. Even if there is not enough evidence to support it in this episode, it is undeniable that this is the episode that's starting to bridge the gap between the two timelines, so I have a feeling this rigid way of telling the episode story may soon become ineffective. TheLAD 11:54, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Semi-agree. At least the OT section should go first, and go up to the first time he is knocked out, then go to FST, and back to OT after he wakes up. I like the separation between timelines, and I don't think we are quite ready to abandon it, but you are definitely right about this being the beginning of the end of the two timelines. In this episode in particular, I think we would be better served in the summary if it followed the structure of the episode itself. --Frakkin Toaster 12:33, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I note that the page has been reorganised. I quite like the new layout, and my original edit put the FST with Desmonds "show them something" at the end too (which is definitely where it should be). BUT I think it impolite at best to do that sort of change without discussing it. Pretty sure it was User:Gfrast - to that editor - please discuss changes like that before implementing them.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   14:38, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry. Yes, it was me who changed the structure. I'm new and not so familiar with all the rules (yet). It won't happen again - without discussing it beforehand. Gfrast 16:46, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Widmore's Source

Before he tests Desomond, Widmore mentions that a source told him Desmond survived a catastrophic electromagnetic blast. I added an inquiry about who this source was to the unanswered questions page but someone removed it (without stating why). I'm all for not posting leading questions, but there's nothing leading about asking about the identity of an unnamed character explicitly mentioned in the episode (would asking "who is the Economist?" be a leading question???) After all, who COULD have been Widmore's source? Given that all his mercs were killed, who even knew what happened to Desmond? One of the O6? Penny? Ben? Any of these as the source would be major plot developments. I think this should be added back to the unanswered questions. Anybody have a reason it shouldn't be?--Faraday100 12:31, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I tend to think Eloise has been telling Widmore everything she knows, now that MIB is loose and threatening to get off the Island. We don't know how exactly, but we know she has some knowledge of the future, at least to a certain point. It's not a stretch to think that she briefed Widmore on anything he didn't already know before he went to the Island. --Frakkin Toaster 12:36, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I think it's a valid question. Even if Eloise seems to be the logical assumption, we still don't know. Desmond was taken to the hospital, where Penny might have had to mention he was sort of nuked on the medical history forms. -- Clayburn 17:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Did he actually use the phrase "a source"? What's the actual line of dialogue? --Jackdavinci 05:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Eloise knew in 1989 -- we've seen Eloise and Charles together in S5. It's pretty likely it was her. Spiral77 05:56, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Jackdavinci has a good point. I've watched the episode 3 times now and I can't find where Widmore says "that a source told him". Maybe someone can enlighten me?? -- AlexDeLarge 10:18, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • "...only person I'm aware of in the world..." - either he has a source or he shares a greater awareness of events with Eloise. But his words don't state a 'source'. Duncan905 19:19, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Guy accidentally cooked in beginning of episode

So do we now know what happened to that guy in "Some Like It Hoth"? That dead guy was also described as a "package" by Horace and Radzinsky. I don't remember the exact details and should probably give SLIH another look, but the dead guy in the beginning of Happily Ever After looked like the dead guy in the other episode. Then again, dead people tend to look alike, and I think that the Dharma guy's problem was that an object shot through his head, not that he got cooked by EM energy...but he was working in the Orchid by a hotbed of EM energy. I'll give it another look.He who waits 14:21, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

His filling went through his skull. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dubaich10 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T11:34:23.

  • Interesting cross-reference to "package" - I never noticed in SLiH, that qualifies as juxtaposition.
  • Widmore stopping the stretcher, looking & saying 'now' they can take the body away - what was that about? A moment of dignity after redshirting? It sure elevated Desmond's panic. Duncan905 19:25, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Clouds

What was with the clouds that were shown for a couple of seconds, just after Desmond is getting frazzled by the electromagnetism, and just before he is looking at the Oceanic board at the beginning of the FST? Phobia27 14:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I think it was just meant to be a nudge in the "flashsideways" direction. Last time we saw Desmond he was on the plane, in the clouds. Then right after that he is confirmed to have been on the plane - instead of having been time jumping or whatever other theories there were.NandR 14:40, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Eloise's Brooch

Screenshot:

EloiseSidewaysBrooch

SidewaysEloise's Brooch


--Ncmacasl 16:23, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • These look like 2 of the eyes of "Eck" from the Outer Limits Episode "Behold Eck!". He was a 2-dimensional being who could travel from one dimension to another. Maybe Eloise is a trans-dimensional traveller, and will "recruit" Desmond in the future, but who is "not ready yet". -- AlexDeLarge 21:03, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Does it look like to anyone, that brand that was on Juliette?--Phryrosebdeco23 00:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • It does sort of resemble it. But the brand they gave Juliet only had one long arm, not two. See here for Juliet's mark MattC867 14:56, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Song played on the piano

(Sorry if I do something wrong, this is my first time writing something here...)When Desmond goes to meet Eloise, Faraday plays Chopin's Fantasie-Impromptu on the piano. This piece is also heard on the episode 6.05 that Jack goes to see his son play the piano at a contest. Maybe some of the creators love it!--Vaggelis91 16:42, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Good call, I'll add it to the Cultural references --LOST-Hunter61 16:50, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

It could be that Daniel is David's piano teacher. Wouldn't that be a kicker. --—   lion of dharma    talk    email   17:29, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Desmond's MRI Scan

The MRI machine made sounds eerily similar to sounds associated with the Smoke Monster. Just saying. Hatchbanger 16:57, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Perhaps because the smoke monster is a remnant or consists of electromagnetism. Such as with an MRI. hmm? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamlost23 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T14:01:08.
  • That could be why (in "Pilot") Rose finds the noises that the Monster makes very "familiar". She is a cancer patient, and would be a likely person on the Island to have undergone an MRI scan.--DanVader228 22:52, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah, that would be a nice tie-in to a very early plot point! Hatchbanger 00:19, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • No, that was an easter egg- a large part of the smoker monster 'noise' is a New York taxi cab receipt printing machine. Rose is from New York.--Chocky 15:49, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Someone posted a screencap on another board that shows the sign on the MRI room's door which reads (literally) "Magnetic Resonance Imagining". Not "Imaging" Hatchbanger 00:35, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • I've been punk'd or something. I just rewatched the entire episode and I saw no such sign. Bah. Hatchbanger 03:38, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
The "Imagining" sign is from "Born to Run". --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 07:30, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I thought that Rose recognized the noise as she was at one point in the NYC area. It has been confirmed that the smoke monster noises uses a NYC Cab Receipt printer as part of its 'sound'. That is why she recognized it. --Arghh151 03:33, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Guy carrying stretcher

Was the guy carrying the stretcher the same guy that removed Kate's handcuffs?--Hermalot 17:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Its not a "solenoid chamber..."

Whoever wrote that bit clearly doesn't know what a solenoid is... --SvenBoogie 18:26, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

But a solenoid is a loop of wire wrapped around a core that helps produce magnetic field. That's what the thing in the room Desmond was in sure looked like and using the electricity is what creates the electromagnetic field, right? I'll have to read the article again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iamlost23 (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T13:59:04.

A solenoid is along one axis. If you wrap that solenoid into a circle you have a toroidal coil which is a completely different thing altogether and is what actually appears in the episode. It's much more accurate to call it a toroid. I changed instances of 'solenoid' to 'toroid.' --User:Cataclysmcow

  • Funny thing is that a toroidal coil is designed to have minimal surrounding magnetic field because the flux is concentrated in the core. But I'm not suggesting a blooper here. ;) Dave92127 20:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm the one who doesn't accurately know what a solenoid is. Frankly I thought I got pretty close. However I expected I would be corrected way quicker than I was! "Toroidial coil" sounds great - love it.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   01:24, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • You guys are neglecting the fact that in the show they called them solenoids. Simmonds was killed because he was asked to "go check on the solenoids". After being asked, he went straight into the chamber and began inspecting the coils. Its pretty clear that its the writers who got their terminology mixed up. Regardless, I think they should either be referred to exactly as they are referred to in the show, or the error should be mentioned in the bloopers section. MattC867 14:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • So, this needs to be added as a BLOOPER in the main page. Agreed? -- Jodon1971 17:02, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • We need to agree on a name for these things, because we should create an article for that room. I would have done it already but I'm unsure what to call it. If we give Claire's hut an article, then this deserves one too.--Baker1000 20:15, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Picture did not move??

The picture did not move in Widmore's office, there are two different pictures if you look at the background colours they are different --Deeplakes 18:32, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia(s)

First of all, excuse my english. I was reading the trivia (yeah, not plural) and realized I noticed some more, but don't want to be the one adding them because my english isn't that good and I prefer we debate over them :

  • Aren't we gonna say something (except that Desmond travels between the timelines agains) about Charlie/Daniel/probably Penny experiencing the same ? This is no more only Desmond-related.
  • I don't remember what ep, but the scene where Desmond is at the stadium definetly exactly looks like the one where Jack exercises, and Desmond is told to take the course around the world.
  • Shouldn't we mention the MacCutcheon in the recurring theme/trivia ?

What do you think ? --FrenchFlo 20:28, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Good points. Proposing:

  • "This is the first episode to feature flash-sideways non-centric characters, Charlie and Daniel, who are aware & curious about the original timeline."
  • "In the flash-sideways timeline Penny jogs at the same stadium in Los Angeles where Desmond and Jack encounter each other in the original timeline. (Juxtaposition)"
  • the McCutcheon whiskey is mentioned in trivia points about the juxtaposition of Charles & Desmond's relationship, and the Episode References. Duncan905 19:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

What timeline is the Widmore on the Sub from?

I hope I can explain my confusion well enough to get it cleared up. This season shows everyone having an alternate life in the flash sideways i.e. how things would have been in 2004. So the events that lead up to everyone getting back on the plane to go back to the island don't actually happen i.e Jack and Kate don't marry, and Ben doesn't go to the marina to shot Desmond. I can understand Desmond being the Constant, and having the ability to effect multiple timelines. But how does Widmore get the Desmond who was shot by Ben? Desmond can traverse timelines, but not Widmore. How was Widmore able to stay in 2007 when he wasn't on the island when the bomb went off? I'm missing something. --Flashpot 20:34, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Widmore + the sub + desmond are from the main timeline which never ceased to exists. Desmond returned from the Island, Widmore had been banished years ago, and while Desmond was in the hospital beeing shot by Ben, Widmore simply took him to the Island in his Sub. And for the record, the flash sideways timeline isn't "how things would have been", it's more "how things are" in the new alternate reality created when Juliet detonated the Hydrogen bomb. I hope I'm clear, and not wrong. --FrenchFlo 20:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
    • Darlton said in the podcast that the original timeline and the FST are not "mutually exclusive," so it's definitely not "How things would have been." It simply exists and Desmond, of course, appears to be the link between the two because, as Darlton has said, the "rules don't apply to him." DesmondHumeWillBeMyConstant 16:30, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • This helps. Thanks. It helps that I read the Charles Widmore page, too. Which I should have done first. Grabbing Desmond at the hospitial was the piece I missed. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flashpot (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T15:57:45.

Shannon

Look at the episode 26:47. Either it's a very close lookalike or everyone has completely missed it! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LOST-Figg (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T16:39:37.

  • Definetly not her. Doesn't look that much alike and Boone said she was still in Australia. I don't think she had time to come back and get a job as a nurse. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Francisonfire (talk • contribs) 2010-04-07T17:16:44.

Main Image change

06X11Desmondtoshowthem

1
6x11 DesmondFlash

2
Des6x11

3

I'mDesmond

4
LeadtheWay

5
Penny?

6

Sacrifice

7
TheManifest

8
WakeUpDes

9

Another image war which one? 1 or 2. (and we can remove 1 from the article if choosen)

I choose #1 because it better represnts the episode which is desmonds realization of "flashes" of the original timeline while the other bears very little importance. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  21:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
#1, but also open to better pictures. #2 is a bit blurry on the right hand side because of out-of-focus Daniel, #1 is okay but I don't really like his 'dazing'. Phobia27 23:28, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

ReplyAny of these? (Kdc2 02:03, April 8, 2010 (UTC))

I like #5, but 2, 4, 5, and 8 are the only ones that would work imo. InflatableBombshelter 02:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I like 4. Omggivemaafningusername 02:17, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I prefer #2 This current one may not be very exciting but it is a good quality cap, showing Desmond at a moment where everything is about to change. Someone mentioned the blur at the LH side - it is both deliberate and serves to focus on the subject. I like the look of vague confusion. #1 in the back of the Limo at the end just will never cut it. Its my grab (actually a version of it) and the lighting is atrocious and unfixable. As important as the moment is Desmond's expressions are rather odd and while they work in motion in stills he just looks like an idiot. Lets keep the great clear original choice.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   02:18, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • Nice table and seeing it like that #2 is the standout    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   02:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • #2 is pretty awesome, but I think it should be the Dr. Manhattan picture, Desmond in the EM chamber.--Frakkin Toaster 02:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'd vote for #2. Not only is it a great shot, it underlines the difference in the flash sideways, i.e. his relationship with Widemore. --Litany42 03:00, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • As the one who chose number #2, I obviously vote for number 2. I can't see what's wrong with it.  ODK  Talk  Sandbox  03:06, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm a fan of iconic moments if the face is right, so 4 or 5. 4 moreso because it's the moment of connection that causes #5's expression. The title's 'Happily Ever After' (like 'Something Nice Back Home') Duncan905 04:43, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm voting for 9.--Pittsburghmuggle 06:47, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think #4 captures the episode's emotional arc best. —Josiah Rowe 06:49, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • #4 for me - Josiah got it perfectly. AlaskaDave 09:55, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I prefer #4, if that counts for anything Hawkdeath 10:01, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I also prefer #4. AlexIW 13:26, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • If 4 wins we must find a better screen cap - open 2 and 4 to full size and you will see the problem. 4 is terrible.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   14:08, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm casting my vote for #4 unless someone puts up a better pic of a smiling Des. And I opened it I'm not to sure what the problem with #4 is other then it's got a fuzzy background.--WhyDidntUKnow 17:11, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    1. 5 or #4. Desmond's expression on the current image is just awkward. But I agree, if we choose #4, we need to find a better quality screencap.--Baker1000 19:24, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I like #2. It's a great shot. Bobrk 20:27, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

MRI

Whoever put in the MRI bloopers and continuity text does not know what they are talking about. An MRI can take up to an hour, because several sets of images are needed, each taking anywhere from 2 to 15 minutes. So this is not a blooper. I am a nurse. Many patients have metal in certain parts of the body, say the lumbar spine, which would effect the person in a harmful manner sure, but only if that part of the body is in the machine. Certain metals can distort the images, but not necessarily harm the patient (with some exceptions, such as a pacemaker) if the patient has been examined first, as via xray for metal in the part of the body being scanned. Doing a brain scan with an MRI, the whole body does not need to be in the chamber. As far as other objects, yes they are kept out of the room, such as pens, jewelery, pins, etc are not to be in the room when the machine is in use. To be safe, they do require that they not be in the room at anytime, so as not to be forgotten to be removed when the machine is in use. Iamlost23 22:53, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Totally agree with you Ialost23, I get MRI's and they do last more than 2 minutes. I vote take it out!--Phryrosebdeco23 00:31, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

What about the Donnie Darko theory?

Is it just me or did this episode feel a lot like Donnie Darko (with Desmond as Donnie)? --Dr P.O. 22:01, April 7, 2010 (UTC)Dr P.O. Just you apparently! Frank wasn't even in the episode!    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   10:52, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Happily Ever After reminds me The Man in the High Castle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_in_the_High_Castle

Philip K. Dick's version of alternate universes deals with the results of WWII. Similar flash-sideway technique is used. Correct universe rules in the end. With how the ending seems to be shaping up, I think the influence is there.

Anyone else read the book? What do you think?

--Babyalligator42 00:56, April 8, 2010 (UTC) -Jared p.s. Love the site, frequent reader...first time poster

Speculation

I've removed the following line from the trvia section. "this episode features consciousness travel between the two realities" It is pure speculation to say that. We as of now have no idea what happened to Desmond during the few seconds he was unconscious, but there is no evidence that he mind traveled to the other reality. --D Toccs 00:59, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • I don't know. It's been made pretty clear that Desmond's time travel is not physical, but just his consciousness. We've seen it twice, in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "The Constant." I am very sure that they intended us to think that OT Desmond inhabited FST Desmond's body for those twenty minutes. Why else would he wake up a changed man, who now understands what Widmore is asking of him? To put it another way, if his consciousness did NOT travel to the FST, they still need to explain to us what happened to Desmond when he got knocked out. --Frakkin Toaster 01:29, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Agreed. It's pretty clear that's exactly what is happening -- right down to Desmond touching Penny and then passing out (like "Flashes..."). This is also the first clear indication that events in one timeline are affecting the other. --Litany42 02:49, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Also right when he wakes up on the island, he's looking at the same hand he had just used to touch Penny, a clear indication that he traveled from sideways consciousness to island consciousness in that moment. --Fearandtrembling 02:53, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • It's not speculation. It's paying attention. I detailed this at some length below, but shortly, we know it was consciousness travel because there was a huge mass of alt. storyline with only original timeline story at beginning and end, similar to the structure of Flashes. Also, Desmond fainting, just like in Constant. Not to mention his abrupt change in personality after waking up in Widmore's chamber. The only question is whether it was sideways Desmond traveling into original Desmond's body, or vice versa. Arguments can be made for both scenarios, and possibly it was one or the other at different times. If I remember correctly, there was some grey area on this specific issue in Constant, too. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
  • I didn't see any actual travel going on. What did happen was that both Desmonds were able to view things from the other universe (ALT Des just got a flash of his life with Penny whereas our Des probably got to view everything from staring at the arrivals board to the handshake), but at no time was either Desmond in control of another's body, as he was during his previous time travel experiences. --Jackdavinci 05:40, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe Desmond didn't get control of his alternate body, but he was definitely in that body, as his staring at his hand indicates. Why would he stare at his hand unless he had some kind of memory of feeling Penny's hand in his own? Memory of touch implies that he was able to feel that touch, meaning he was in that body, even if his consciousness wasn't actively in control. Also, if there was no travel, explain his sudden change of heart. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
  • Desmond did travel between realities. Notice that when he does so, no strange "whoosh" is heard (the one that sounds when we shift realities), which mimics "Flashes before your eyes" and "The constant". In both episodes no "whoosh" was heard to show us that they weren't flashbacks, they were travels. In the same way, as no strange-whoosh is heard, Desmond travels between the realities. When the travels are over, and he meets up with Sayid, then we get the strange-whoosh to the other reality, because he is not traveling anymore, and we're only going to see whatever happened to the FST Desmond. But until that, yeah, he switched realities. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 07:23, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Desmond's Purpose

What is it on the island timeline? He says he knows what he needs to do but what does he need to do on the island? --Bellac230 02:48, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

3x08 Episode reference

There has been some debate as to whether or not "* Eloise Widmore speaks of a violation. ("Flashes Before Your Eyes")" is an episode reference. This is not an episode reference because A. It does not directly refer to a past episode. B. Recurring quotes belong in recurring themes, not episode references, but that is irrelevant anyway because C. Eloise doesn't even mention a violation in 3x08. Despite this a user has continually been adding this to the section, without stating why. I would like to get some more input on this since i'm tired of undoing his edits. InflatableBombshelter 02:44, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • actually there is no debate at all as the editor refuses to discuss the issue. I have left an additional message on his talk page and have also removed this incorrect reference. Eloise DOES NOT refer to a violation in 3x08    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   02:48, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think the similarities between the scenes were as obvious and intentional as the ones in Widmore's office, though the phrase 'violation' wasn't used before. I reworded it to exclude that word. --Jackdavinci 05:48, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • I do think though that the relation of 'violation' to the 'rules' should be mentioned. It doesn't seem that 'rules' is listed as a recurring theme though. Does it belong in some other category? --Jackdavinci 05:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Causes of the Jumps

Given that this episode did not feature the narrative device of the flash-sideway, but was instead consciousness travel a la The Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes, I find it strange that no one has mentioned what caused the consciousness jumps in the episode. Of course, we know that the first jump was caused by Widmore's experiment. But there are two other jumps:

  • (2) the jump from the sideways world back into the original world. We know this was a consciousness jump and not simply a flash-sideways, for two reasons: (a) before the experiment, Desmond is thrashing around trying to resist Widmore, while afterwards he is compliant. It is his experiences in the sideways world that causes him to change his mind ("A lot can happen in 20 minutes"). And, (b) in the sideways world, Desmond faints after meeting Penny, similar to how he lost consciousness in 1996 when he traveled back to 2004.
  • (3) the jump from the original world back into the sideways world. We know this was a consciousness jump and not simply a flash-sideways, because Desmond comes to after fainting. If it wasn't a consciousness jump, he wouldn't have fainted in the first place. This is simply the flip side of the previous flash, if you will.

So it seems that a couple of theories can be drawn up based on what happened, as to what caused those second and third jumps. The way I see it, the second jump occurred because he met Penny, almost as if he was being rewarded by discovering a link to his other life. Similarly, when he decided to follow Sayid (who is working for the MiB), this is what causes the third jump, as if he was being punished for not helping Widmore as he had promised. What do you guys think? Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

Well I'd call them more of a bridge than an actual jump because at no time does either Des inhabit the other's body to the point of taking control. Our Des gets to see a little slice of Alt Des's life, and Alt Des gets two visions of our Des's life. The bridges and their causes being: 1) Coils cause Des to start viewing Alt-Des's life 2) Alt-Des drowning receives a vision of Charlie's "Not Penny's Boat" 3) MRI causes Alt-Des to receive a vision of Des's most powerful memories of Penny 4) Alt-Des touches Alt-Penny who is his Constant, causing Alt-Des to faint briefly as Des stops viewing his life. Following Sayid happens a long long time after Desmond has woken up and has nothing at all to do with consciousness bridging. Des waking up and Alt-Des fainting happen simultaneously. --Jackdavinci 06:01, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe Desmond didn't get control of his alternate body, but he was definitely in that body, as his staring at his hand indicates. Why would he stare at his hand unless he had some kind of memory of feeling Penny's hand in his own? Memory of touch implies that he was able to feel that touch, meaning he was in that body, even if his consciousness wasn't actively in control. Also, if there was no travel, explain his sudden change of heart. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
  • I think it's an excellent point. Penny is Desmond's constant just like in (what was the episode name? oh yeah) "The Constant." In that episode his flashes stopped when he talked to Penny on the phone. And in this episode the flash stopped when he shook her hand.--Slimeham 06:05, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • The more I think about it though, I disagree with the second part of what you said, Aobozu, about his encounter with Sayid causing another flash. Here's how I see it: The coils caused Desmond to have a flash just like when he blew the swan (hehe) hatch. His encounter with Penny, his constant, then caused his consciousness to shift back to the OT. The flash after he goes with Sayid is our traditional flashsideways. Notice that the whoosh was included when those scenes changed.--Slimeham 06:13, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Exactly, slimeham, and the episode did a perfect job of presenting that. The final scene was a regular flash-sideways, of course now Alt-Desmond has all of the memories he previously had. Marc604 08:59, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • Slimeham has it how I interpreted it Hawkdeath 10:05, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
    • You're right. I watched it again today, and I did hear the sound I missed the first time. So the second flash is actually a flash-sideways, while the main body of the episode is consciousness-travel. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

In the alternate timeline..

I think it's worth outlining something. In the alternate timeline we are assuming that everything happened the same up to the detonation of Jughead. This includes, then, Eloise executing her own son. So I guess that Jughead sinking the island somehow, she saw he would never return there, so allowed him to practice music instead? The whole Ellie and Charles living happily ever after off the island seems weird, coupled with Eloise surely still thinking he must go back in time and be killed by her at some point? --Integrated (User / Talk) 12:34, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • As the old Lone Ranger joke goes, "What mean 'we', paleface?" -- Jbillones 15:23, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • No, it is not weird, because this Daniel was never shot by Eloise. The bomb's detonation was intended to cause the Swan to not exist. The Swan brought down 815. If 815 never crashed, the survivors of it-and the science team-would not have time traveled to 1974, where Daniel was shot. The events prior to the Incident that were caused by the 815er's time travel would also not occur due to the Swan causing them to begin with-and that includes Daniel's shooting. --Golden Monkey 16:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • We also know that for the Island, time is different than elsewhere. The freighter's doctor washed up on shore while he was still alive on the boat. So we have future events happening before past events, if you will, or present events happening before past events. With this in mind, it's entirely possible that effects of the bomb's detonation radiated backward as well as forward in time. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions

Constant

Could Desmond be the constant between the two timelines? I can't remember, but is someone who jumps between the rifts in time aware of each timeline? Could that be the reason why he needs the manifest because he needs to get the passengers in the flashsideways together?--Scribble72 14:54, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I assume he only wants to show them their alternate life. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 18:54, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

UQ: Penny at the stadium

I added an UQ about why Penny was at the stadium. Remove it if you want, but I think it's a legitimate question. It's obviously the same stadium that Jack and Desmond met in. Was there a reason for this? Given that Charles Widmore now has his son, could it be that Penny is fighting for his respect- sailing around the world like Desmond was going to? It's a long shot, but still...--Chocky 15:53, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • Perhaps she has a regular exercise routine? The characters live in the LA area and exercising by "doing stadiums" is not all that unusual. Of course the losties all interact with each other in strange ways. Cabeckett 17:00, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • Maybe its near the same hospital Jack works in. Maybe she's a doctor there like Jack. I'm not privy to filming locations, but as Sonya Walger is now full-time playing a doctor on Flash Forward maybe the producers decided take advantage of this, and integrated it into their plot. -- Jodon1971 17:12, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Is there any dispute this is the same stadium? Unless there's an objection this qualifies for an Episode Reference at least. I do like the notion of Penny doing the sailing race, but for now we can't say more than she has an exercise routine that Daniel is aware of. One problem - Charles was sponsoring the race in 2001 (Desmond was on the Island for 3 years) and the FST is 2004. Duncan905 19:52, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Flashes Before Your Eyes

The mind travel technique in this episode was used before, in "Flashes Before Your Eyes", only that in that episode Desmond didn't travel to another reality, but to his past (apparently). Does this mean:

1) In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" Desmond did travel to another reality (but still set 8 years before), or

2) In "Flashes Before Your Eyes" Desmond traveled to his past, but created a slightly-different reality (being hit by Jimmy Lennon, for example, instead of seeing that Jimmy hit the bar-tender), or

3) In "Flashes Before Your Eyes", Desmond traveled to his past, but his past was always like that, he always made those EXACT choices and was always hit by Jimmy Lennon

One of these three options must be the correct one. After watching "Happily...", I think we may be able to get to a conclusion. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 18:53, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • Interesting to speculate, but keep in mind that all applies to the Original Timeline, where we know Desmond continued until kidnapped by Widmore in 2007. The FST shares the common element of Eloise being aware of an expected course of events & warning Desmond against deviating. The other shared theme is that Desmond awakens with memories of additional experiences intact. The 'rules' don't apply to him somehow, so in the case of Desmond accidentally getting hit by Jimmy instead of the bartender, that is what happened-happened. :) Duncan905 19:11, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
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