Main Article Theories about
Happily Ever After
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Seemed obvious, but nobody has mentioned it: The sounds during the MRI sound an awful lot like Room23/Smokey. Am I the only one who thinks this? Cabeckett 19:36, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I've had an MRI and the noises the machine makes sound like it did in the episode. I think any noise similarities are coincidental. --Maddy15 01:26, April 10, 2010 (UTC)
    • Whoa. Remember who said Smokey sounded familiar in the *first* episode? That was ROSE--and Rose has brain cancer in the ALT. Methinks you are onto something big time, because the sound does ring a bell for me too. --Lost in the dollhouse 02:55, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
    • When discussing this with a friend at work he said an MRI does sound almost exactly as it did in the show. I hadn't made a Rose/Cancer connection though. We haven't yet seen a Rose-centric episode, perhaps the state of her brain might be important but until then this is probably just a footnote. Cabeckett 01:10, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

The EMP Did Not split Desmond's Mind or Switch The Two Desmonds

  • Contrary to what some believe, i think the EMP did not split Desmond's mind, it was a near death experience that caused him to become aware of the reality that he could be living if he doesnt help Widmore. Much like the near death experience with Charlie in the FST showed him a glimpse of the OT, getting knocked out by the magnetism showed him a glimpse of the FST. By seeing a life in which Penny doesnt know him and he has no child, he is now willing to help Widmore. But not because he was switched with the FST Desmond, but because he thinks that the FST was what Widmore was referring to when he said something to the effect of "if you dont help me, this will all have been for nothing."

It is also clear to me now that Eloise and Charles are both aware of both timelines (at least Eloise for sure).ANGIS 15:47, April 7, 2010 (UTC)A

  • Just to add a bit more to this, I belive the fail safe in the hatch did in fact move desmond into his past, as with the hatch explosion he planed to buy Penny a ring and to marry her this time where as in the FST he doesn't even really know who Penny is just some vague experiance he had in an MRI.--WhyDidntUKnow 17:15, April 8, 2010 (UTC)


If I never hear another "constants" theory, it will be too soon. It was a single idea that was relevant to Desmond in one instance, and I see no evidence that the idea of a "constant" will play a role in season 6. Do you?--Frakkin Toaster 06:41, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I agree. All we need to know is that Desmond is special and his mind can travel between universes. whether he needs a constant or not is irrelevant (and it was not brought up here at all).--Xocgx 11:58, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • Well, let's see: The instance in which the idea of constants was relevant had Desmond hopping around through space-time. So yeah, I think it could be relevant here, too. Desmond and Penny's love was the constant before, and it's looking like that again. Oh and Charlie and Claire, Jack and Kate...Now Sawyer just needs to find Juliet...and Hurley Libby...--Mckboy 17:37, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • also Daniel Faraday and Charlotte..--Lostfan1
  • Everyone, it would seem, loves constants (see Apophenia#The Latest Concept Explains Everything). In point of fact there were exactly two documented cases of constants. Penny was Desmond's while his consciousness was bouncing back and forth between England/Scotland and the Island and Daniel citing Desmond as his constant in an entry in his journal (meeting Desmond may have stabilized Danielk's mental state). There has never been a reference to Jack and Kate, Sawyer and Juliet or Hurley and Libby.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 22:04, April 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • I agree with you guys nothing in this episode even closely referenced the concept of needing a constant. As for those of you on the other side of the argument if Desmond does need a constant and it is Penny he is in a lot of trouble unless she gets to the island or he gets off the island very quickly. Jdray 18:54, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

FST is a prison, false reality or dream

Slightly off topic, but this episode brought to mind an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Unfortunately, I can't recall the season/episode name, but fortunately I can describe it enough to make it relevant:

  • The ship encounters a planet of xenophobes who want to destroy the ship in order to keep their presence secret.
  • They convince the aliens to, instead, wipe the memories of all crew, and instruct Data (an android) to never speak of what happened, as this would undermine the purpose of the exercise.
  • --Episode starts here, from the viewer's perspective--
  • Everybody on the ship starts noticing signs that suggest that they have all collectively lost a day of memory.
  • Data seems to be aware of what's going on, but mysteriously refuses to tell anybody, even under threat of being discharged.
  • Ultimately, they discover why they lost their memories, and are again under thread of being killed by the xenophobes.
  • They convince the xenophobes to give it another round to work the bugs out of the plan, and succeed.

A lot of that doesn't apply, but it makes me wonder if we have some similarities. My thoughts:

  • We will see MiB offering certain things to people in exchange for their cooperation.
  • The FST is a fictional reality composed for those in it (our Losties, etc), although in this case it is most likely not done for their benefit.
  • The purpose of the fictional reality is to keep those in it unaware that they are in a fictional reality.
  • However this reality is held together, there are flaws. Reality bleeds into the fictional reality, making Desmond, Daniel, and Charlies aware of what is happening.
  • Their pursuit of reality, from within their fabricated reality, can potentially tear the FST asunder: end it, or turn it into a very bad place.

This makes me consider Eloise's motives; so far I was under the impression that Widmore and Eloise were both fighting against MiB (thus, presumably, for Jacob). The bullets above contradict this, since Eloise seemed to be interested in maintaining the status quo within the FST. Here are some additional suppositions on this:

  • She knows she's in a false reality, but is happy with it (she has Daniel) and wants to stay.
  • The false reality was created intentionally (possibly by Jacob) as a place to effectively hide our Losties. Desmond's job is to bring them over to the real timeline (OT), but he must do it when the time is right. If he exposes it too early, they will return to the OT when it is still dangerous and undermine their plan.
  • How about this: since MIB has repeatedly offered characters to have dreams come true (Sayid, Ben, Richard) and, in some way, those are the exact dreams that have come true in the ALT: it is MIB who has created the ALT, and some characters (eg Eloise) know it, and want to keep it going because it's their wishes that have been granted? --Lost in the dollhouse 02:58, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Mostly random, unsupported ideas here, but I thought somebody might enjoy hearing my latest ideas. Mslade 12:22, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • This sounds a lot like the Matrix. Is Desmond the new Nero?--Breedy00 01:13, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
Remember Jacob's final words to Ben: "Remember, you have a choice." IIRC her words to Desmond in this episode correctly, she poses her objections as asking him if he knows what will happen if he chooses to know. Perhaps she meant these as rhetorical questions, but if so then we have an instance of irony -- a common theme in this program -- which only underlines Jacob's message to not only Ben, but also to Richard. -- Llywrch 18:17, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I've heard a lot of talk of the FST Losties being brought over into the OT. I'm curious what happens when there are 2 of everyone, or are you suggesting that even though they have bodies in the FST, that their minds will merge? I just keep thinking Attack of the Clones! Could you elaborate? --Manix 14:21, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Dream - I had a similar idea while watching last night: the FST is a group consciousness dream initiated by Desmond's exposure to the EM. He will contact the Losties on the island and/or in the FST and "wake them up." The two realities become aware of each other and merge. --Jedibeary5 22:53, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • I started out with the opinion right at the beginning of S6, that the FST was 'not quite right'; however, the more I thought about it, the more convinced I became that the FST was more like the real world than the OT (which was full of crazy coincidences, occurrences of the Numbers, and miracles like Locke falling from a window and living and Sarah being miraculously cured); in addition we have seen Jacob at work in the OT. In other words, if there is a 'false' reality, it is more likely to be the OT than the FST. I thought that someone had been trying to force the OT events to be like the FST, and that that person was Hawking (possibly acting under Jacob's instructions). However, as time has gone on, I am not convinced that either of these is in any sense a 'true' version of reality. The similarities are very 'similar' but yet 'dissimilar'. Just suppose, for the sake of argument that one was a computer simulation of the other. That simulation would require a massive amount of 'course correction' at almost every point to bring the simulation back to a parallel track. The interference would be massive, and would have to occur at almost every point in time/space. Weather simulations are complex, and are only good for a few days' hence, due to the butterfly effect; a whole world simulation would be an undertaking which would exceed this complexity by almost unimaginable orders of magnitude, and would be subject to massive butterfly effects at every point in spacetime, making the 'keeping on track' enterprise as near impossible as anything can be. My current explanation is that both the FST and OT are 'reconstructions' from memories. Someone or something is trying to save the losties (who are dead or dying, or in suspended animation), and is attempting to give them back a life. All of the people who are brought to the island are 'lost', i.e. dead or at the point of death, and Jacob is attempting to save them(in a physical sense). MiB has seen this over & over, and it has never succeeded; Jacob cannot construct an environment in which they can live 'happily ever after'; to that extent he's like the Architect in the Matrix. The FST/OT are two different attempts at trying to weave the losties past memories into a tapestry. It is currently unravelling.--Sean Sheep 08:49, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

White Shoes?

Did anyone else notice that when the let Charlie out of custody he walked across the street in white sneakers very similar to those that Christian wears when Jack follows him on the island in season 1? His white shoes didn't seem to match his outfit nor were they very Charlie like. Does anyone have any theories about this?--Kwhitt78 21:54, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

  • Charlie is whearing white shoes when he's crossing the road, but when Desmond is chasing him through the hospital he is wearing black and white checkered shoes of the same style, possibly some symbolism there about good and evil, or the two time lines?--Motumbo526 23:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
  • More likely a continuity error.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 00:21, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
    • Lost isn't likely to have continuity errors. Everything is there for a reason. The white shoes have been very significant in the past. I highly highly doubt it's a continuity error. --Kwhitt78 05:01, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
      • LOL, what show are you watching? Lost has TONES of continuity errors, just go look at the pages of each episode.--WhyDidntUKnow 11:57, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
        • There's continuity errors in every show but things like Demond's stubble changes or him and Claire don't go through customs (most likely because screen time would have been wasted doing so) are very minor things. I highly doubt Charlie calmly walking through the street in front of cars with white shoes on is a continuity error.

Was Jacob walking along the harbor before the car crashed into the water?

Has onyone noticed that before the car of Desmond and Charlie crashes into the water, when they are driving in a bow, one is shown a man walking along the yarht harbor, with sunglasses and a bag. Who is it? Jacob? Montand (Rousseau island arrival)? --Kaiko34 01:10, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Similar Occurances in Both Timelines

Not sure if this is worth posting on the main article, so I thought I'd just post here for now: a list of things that occur in both timelines:

  • Desmond helps Claire (FST: with her luggage; OT: saves her from drowning)
  • Desmond accurately predicts the future (FST: Claire's baby's sex; OT: Charlie's death)
  • Desmond pushes a button (FST: panic button in MRI; OT: hatch)
  • Specific reference to Charlotte eating chocolate (FST: in museum; OT: as a child)
  • Minkowski assists Desmond (FST: driving him and getting the list; OT: during Desmond's "The Constant" flashes)
  • Desmond saves Charlie's from drowning (FST: in the car; OT: when Desmond saves Claire instead of Charlie saving her, which Desmond foresaw would have resulted in Charlie drowning)


The limo driver

Geroge Minkowski, the limo driver, is emphasized throughout the episode a lot. I think he has to play some kind of huge role in this whole event. How did Charlie know that if he drives the car into the water, that demond will "feel it"; how did Daniel know that Desmond will "feel it" only based on the fact that he asked who Penny was?

Daniel's girlfriend in OT

Remember Theresa Spencer? Think now I know where her mind was tripping...


What information do you find on a manifest? Does it have home addresses for instance?

The white woodhouse w/coils is an artificial Jacob's Cabin

I'm the only one that noticed that the white woodhouse with big tesla coils where Desmond is taken to take the EMP test is quite similar to the original cabin in the island? Even the chair where he's tied up is reminiscent of Jacob's. I think the original Jacob's cabin is using the strong electromagnetic power of the island to grant him a medium to jump at specific time period/place in the world, so to be present at any major event in the people life (remember, he meets each of them at some point in their life, usually a critical one!). Could be that the white woodhouse w/coils is an artificial Jacob's Cabin created by Charles Widmore science team to 'inject' Desmond in the FST? --Taniachernova 10:50, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

  • Yes, I've noticed this similarity to Jacob's cabin as well, it doesn't seem coincidental. What was the "ghost" in Jacob's cabin saying when Locke came there with Ben, didn't Locke say that he heard "Help me"? Isn't that what Desmond is shouting? Also, don't you think he looks similar to the person from the cabin?


  • In the FS timeline, everybody has what they wanted most. Desmond has Widmore's approval, Widmore has his family, Ben has Roger's love and treats Alex like a real daughter, Hurley is successful and lucky, Locke has Helen and a better relationship with his father, Sayid has Nadia in his life, Eloise has her son, Daniel is a concert pianist, etc. And all of that has to be sacrificed to save the world in the OT.
    • While it seems that this is a positive outcome, the FS will eventually take a turn for the worse. Remember, in the FS timeline, the island is on the bottom of the ocean; if we are to believe Jacob that the island keeps "evil" from escaping out into the world, then we can assume that in the FS timeline, evil (the Man in Black) has escaped. So, while the Losties appear to have good lives, the existence of the Man in Black in this universe will seriously corrupt the happiness supposed to be had. This is why they will sacrifice the FS timeline--because they understand that if they don't keep the evil from escaping, their "perfect" world (along with seemingly millions of others) will be ruined. Near the end of the series, a catastrophic event will occur in the FS timeline that will be caused by the Man in Black--hence the need to contain him in the OT.
    • Most of the characters are improved in the FST, and they did "get what they wanted most." But it isnt perfect, like Sayid getting to see Nadia, but having to see her married to his brother. Sawyer's parents were still murdered, Charlie is still an addict, Kate is still a fugitive, etc. Maybe those that side with MIB on the island end up getting screwed in the FST.
      • Being on the same side as the MIB may be irrelevant since Charlie died previously on the island and did not get to choose what side he wanted to be on. We are seeing events as if Jacob did not touch those on Oceanic 815. Desmond is the one difference on the plane, because he never went to the hatch to begin with in the flash sideways timeline.
  • Both Desmonds are aware of the final outcome of the island, hence Desmond on the island readily agrees to Widmore and follows Sayid on a path he knows will lead to it (possibly his death), and the Desmond in the alternate timeline will gather the other people to be made aware of their past lives, preparing for the final scenario where the people in the two timelines cross over. It is possible that the alternate timeline is the timelines created when jughead detonated, but will be the final timeline after the island has sunk and the MIB is stopped, due to Desmond and the others on both timelines.
  • The sacrifice is that Desmond does not have or even know Penny in the FS. The FS is an alternate timeline that the Losties and everyone else that's ever been brought to the island have had their consciousness switched to in some kind of deal at some point in the future. This explains why they have island memories and also why Desmond was able to switch between them. This is also why Eloise told him it was a "violation" for him to try and find Penny - because that was his sacrifice, to not have her.
    • Then why is it stressed a few times in the episode that Desmond isn't ready for Penny "yet"?
      • Eloise may not have been simply talking about Desmond seeing or being with Penny - she could mean he's not ready to discover the truth about the FS, which could well occur upon contact with her. Afterall, it was at that point that he returned to the current timeline. Don't forget that Eloise was speaking very openly about the nature of the FS (albiet in a way that is not totally clear to the viewer yet), and not trying to conceal the fact that there was something else going on. She could have simply meant he was not ready for "enlightenment".
      • The FST isn't what it seems, and it will very soon take a turn for the worst because the MiB is free to roam the world bringing "darkness and destruction" or whatever to everyone since the Island is one the bottom of the sea (it can no longer contain him). Eloise is afraid that if Desmond meets Penny now he will return to the OT before he can see the FST for what it really is (a VERY bad thing).
        • If the island was sunk by Jughead, in the 70s, (since they flew over it in the Season 6 premier) Then that would mean that the MiB could have gotten off the island and could have been loose for 30+ years. So if he was going to bring destruction and darkness to the world, why would he wait so long?
        • The FST has already (a) first appeared to be better and then (b) changed for the worse. Look at FS Ben Linus. He is a teacher, friends with Alex and with his father. But later, his thirst for power in the school system leads him to sabotage the Principal so that he can get the position. It is implied that this is the beginning of his devious ways. He has not escaped evil. He has not only gotten what he wants. His flaws follow him.
          • I disagree. That scenario ended up with him choosing Alex OVER sabotaging the principal. It was designed to show that Ben was in fact a different person in the FST.
    • Desmond will probably not die. The sacrifice refers to leaving Penny and his son in the first place and coming back to the island. Also another sacrifice that Desmond may have to perform is luring the MIB into the EM field. Of course, these are risky and Desmond may indeed be injured or may not return from the island. However we see that Desmond is motivated and is easily persuaded by Sayid at the end of the episode; he totally agrees with Widmore at the end of the episode; he understands his purpose and may already have a plan.
    • Desmond will (maybe) have to sacrifice his life in OT to help establish the FST as definitive timeline. Finally, he will be alive again (in this timeline). He will have to sacrifice (a part of?) his life with Penny, who is already married in FST. Desmond should not find out about her marriage because Ms. Widmore is afraid of him losing his motivation to help establish FST as definitive and all in all better timeline. Finally, they will have their happy ending.
      • It was hinted that Penny was not married in the FST, when Desmond heard her name on the guest list it was followed by the word "solo." This implies that she is not married since she is coming to the event alone.
      • Desmond will just have to start over. They can get married in the future of the FST. This is why Desmond is adamant in the OT at the end of the episode. He can still have his "happily ever after". The sacrifice may be starting over again though.
      • Technically, then, everyone would have to die to move into the fixed-FST, wouldn't they? It may be more likely that Desmond will cause the entire OT to shift to a fixed-FST with those who survive in the OT timeline.
      • It's a simple paradox. None of the O815 passengers will ever get to the island. The end of the show has to visualize that resp. a transition from OT to fixed-FST resp. an end of the loop. So, technically, none of the O815-passengers will have to actually die in OT. (Maybe some will though.)
      • Yes, so they cease to exist in OT but will exist in FST. No dying necessary to get to that existence in FST.
      • Desmond will not die because he will be back to pushing the button (his sacrifice). Mrs. Hawking told him that that was his destiny in order to save everyone. This time he won't miss pushing the button and 815 won't crash. End of story.
        • End of story... NOT. Which button are you talking about? Cause during the oceanic flight Desmond is on the plane and the button is underseas. What exactly do you imply?
        • I am talking about the Swan Station button. It's possible that Desmond will be sent back in time to prevent the crash of 815, thereby ending the loop. He might be fated to keep pushing the button until he dies. This would be his great sacrifice. Certainly a fate worse than death.
      • Desmond cannot go back to pushing the button because the button does not exist anymore, neither in the OT (the Swan Station exploded) nor in the FST (the island is sunk and presumaby jughead prevented the Swan Station from being built)
  • Desmond having these unique attributes will have either to step in and take Jacob's place or absorb the MIB to keep him contained in the island.
    • That's interesting. I don't think that Desmond will take Jacob's place though because he's not a candidate.
  • This sacrifice or the importance of love (discussed below) does seem to be important. I assume this is why MiB tells Sayid it's better that he can't feel anything regarding what's about to happen? MiB must know what has to transpire for his desired outcome: the OT to cease and the FST to become the sole reality because he is assumed "out" in the FST. Since Sayid has no feelings in the OT he won't care when it stops.
  • Think about this... Charlie is not scared of dying in the FST ( he crossed the street without looking, he made no effort to leave the car while was under the water) because he wants the life he saw in the vision he had in the plane. He prefers to renounce to the FST because it is not REAL. And now if we move the same theory to Desmond... he is no scared of going with Sayid (he didn't even make any effort to stop Sayid from killing the guys in the jungle). He probably knows that Sayid will kill him, or the MiB, or any catastrophic event will ( this could be the sacrifice Widmore was talking about), and all of this it would be because he prefers the life in the FST ( where he met Penny, saw their future together, and even has the chance of having the approval of Widmore ( he could think " like Widmore said while drinking scotch together- Nothing is good enough for you-".

Now he is looking for the passengers of the flight to see if they have also visions of "another life" and that way he can show them they really can choose too.

    • Desmond's "ultimate sacrifice" could be to reunite the FST losties with the OT losties and take away the things they do have in the FST. For some it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but for most it would be a huge loss.

(Sacrifice to this point moved from Theory by Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:27, April 8, 2010 (UTC))

Why did desmond go with Sayid?

  • Desmond & Widmore's plan was to get desmond captured by Sayid, and therefore he went with the others as bait.
  • Desmond is going with Sayid as a spy to MIB's camp, or in order to kill him.

Daniel's first scene

'Happily Ever After' and seeeing Daniel reminded me of the first time we saw him. Season 4.02 "Confirmed Dead" shows the fake submerged Oceanic 815 on TV. The shot switches to Daniel watchin the news and weeping. A women (his caretaker?) asks why he was upset and he says "he doesn't know." The scene never made sense until now. Is it that the scene was actually evidence of timelines bleeding into each other and that the timelines are not at all linear, but that he was freely moving back and forth along time and timelines so that he knew the significance of seeing Oceanic 815 on the ocean floor?--Theshrike 16:55, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Theory: Brakes don't work in the FST

Now this is going to sound crazy, but it's the only explanation for why Desmond doesn't hit the brake before speeding off into the harbor. In the FST, they didn't invent brakes in automobiles. I don't know how they safely come to a stop, and I'm pretty sure we've seen them stop in the FST before, but the only other explanation is that Desmond doesn't know how to drive. Actually, that could explain why they gave him a driver before and after the accident. In the FST, Desmond is widely known as a piss driver and he somehow stole a car to pick up Charlie. When someone grabs your or my wheel while driving, our first instinct is to stop the car, but FST Desmond failed driver ed and he doesn't work well under pressure (which explains why he says he hates surprises). --Cobblepot 01:28, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

  • Ha ha. Love your sarcasm, Dude. Hope this gets put in as a blooper/continuity error. -- AlexDeLarge 10:24, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
    • Or Unanswered Questions: "Why didn't Desmond just stop the car before speeding off into the harbor?" and the follow-up, "Is he just an idiot?" But that might be begging the question. --Cobblepot 20:10, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
  • I didn't catch the make of the car. Was it a Toyota? Or, if not, perhaps whatever car company it was has Toyota's malfunctions in the FST. --Dretzle 20:14, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
    • It would be great if in a future episode we see in the background a television with the news reporting on that specific model being recalled. --Cobblepot 20:18, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Desmond driving a car

The car he was driving was a Ford DeusExMachina. In this episode Desmond was being driven around everywhere by Minkowski, except for the time when Charlie snatched the wheel and drove him into a dock. Wow, what an amazing coincidence.--Sean Sheep 18:33, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

  • Oh bull. Desmond is "at work", this is not a time for the limo, he uses that for non work stuff, or Minkowski had another Widmore task at that time, or Desmond doesn't want to have creepy George around all the time and let him go.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   01:56, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • Desmond had a sensitivce task to perform for the boss. He didn't need Minkowski.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 02:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • You two are taking this particular comment too seriously. I thought it was hilarious and spot-on. My original assumption when watching the episode was that he got a limo from the airport simply because his car wasn't there. Then he had his car (or was it the company's car? A rental? Does Desmond live in LA?), but it was submerged and no longer drivable, at least for a while. So he had a limo after that. Of course, it would probably be cheaper and easier to rent a car than pay Minkowski for the whole time Desmond needs to get around while in LA, but I think they wanted Minkowski to parallel Abaddon and Locke. That's my take. --Cobblepot 03:16, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • Maybe, but the essential purpose of a theory talk page is to improve the theory page.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:22, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • When you are down on something everything can look contrived. Bit like many editors here - every clue leads to a theory, even when it's not a clue.    Charles Kane     talk  contribs   email   06:14, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

The Disparity in the OT/FST Timelines means that they are sequential & not parallel

In everything that we have seen so far, it is being suggested that information can bleed through from the OT to the FST (but not necessarily vice versa, but that remains to be seen). However, the time in the FST is still September 2004. The events which are 'bleeding through', such as "Not Penny's Boat", the meeting of Danielle & Charlotte, Charlie meeting Claire did not happen until after December 2004; in other words if time is running in parallel, these are events which have not yet occurred.

All of the 'bleed throughs' seem to have occurred at the point of near-death experiences (or of actual death in one timeline or the other): Faraday (killed in OT), Charlie (Killed in OT, near death in FST), Desmond (near death in FST), possibly Juliet in OT (Killed). We have not seen Juliet in the FST, and my guess is that when we do we will hear her utter the words "We should go for coffee sometime"; however, if that happens, Juliet will have said those words in 2007, not 2004.

The near death experiences seems to suggest some sort of quantum suicide explanation; however this would not explain why memories which occur later in the OT would jump backwards to a near-death experience in the FST. For example, when the car lunged in the water, Desmond should really have had a vision of him pressing the button in the hatch, not of Charlie's hand (which occurred much later) , and Charlie on the plane in the toilet should have remembered the plane crashing, but not necessarily Claire, whom he did not meet until a few hours afterwards.

All of this seems to suggest one of two things:

  1. the writers are being very sloppy about the whole notion of 'bleedthroughs', and have disregarded the niceties of keeping events in parallel
  2. the events are not actually occurring in parallel at all, and they are sequential.

If (2) is true, then this means that either the FST or the OT must have occured first in the sequence. This would mean that the bleedthroughs can only occur one way, either FST 'bleeds through' into OT, or OT 'bleeds through into FST'. Clearly the latter is the explanation for the confirmed 'bleed throughs' we have seen, and all of the 'mirror moments' have taken place on the OT, as did Jack's 'almost' recognition of Desmond. However, there has been one incident (Sun's aphasia), which seemed to mirror her inability to speak English in the FST; if this is a real 'bleedthrough', it would tend to support the 'sloppiness' explanation rather than the 'sequential' one--Sean Sheep 08:41, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hawking Created the Split in Timelines

Eloise Hawking made a choice. She read Faraday's Journal, and ...

  1. ... decided to bring up Faraday to be a physicist in the sure and certain knowledge that he would time travel and he would go back to 1977, whereupon she would kill him.
  2. ... decided that she could not bear to have her only son killed by herself, and she decided that he must not be brought up to be a physicist.

If the FST/OT were not created by Eloise's decision, then how is it that she knows to ensure that he becomes a physicist in the OT (where he has a crucial role to play), but in the FST it seemingly does not matter.

If she watched the bomb not explode, and the losties 'disappear', this needs to have triggered her to adamantly train Faraday as a scientist as it was his 'destiny'(why?);if she watched the bomb explode, and the island gradually begin to sink, and they all need to leave, she then lets him be a musician, and seemingly, in this timeline, there is no such 'destiny'.(why?)

If she did not make the decision which fractured the timelines, then why did she make different decisions in different timelines?--Sean Sheep 08:52, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

General theory. hell man tired

Theory, It seems to me that both desmonds mind is active in both timeline. in the last epidode when he A. fainted in the FST and B. was exposed to the electromagnetic rays both his minds met/joined. He seemed changed or had a pupose after this proposed meeting. I THINK that in this meeting jacob was present and gave a mission to both of desmonds state of minds and both fst and ost desmond must now go along and complete this task. Furthermore I think that whatever this mission is will result in a goal that jacob needs achieved.


desmond has two states of mind Both states of mind meet in an unknown location where jacob is present jacob shows them them the concequence if certain events dont transpire Jacob gives both states of mind a mission FST- Unite all losties who must play a part in saving the world OST- Unite all candidates Actions of both losties in the OST and FST result in achieving an overall goal

Thats it but im not to sure on this but I have a BIG hunch that Jacob can take the form of vinceint the dog. The dog was seen observing all the losties in the piliot, mainly the current candidates, The dog also went MIA an AWFUL lot in season 1 maybe doing secret jacob buisness. constantly providing clues or yelping in order to help the losties. For some reason found the bens dads fan and keys and brought them to huley, very unbecoming of a dog.

What do you guys think, am i completelty out of the ball park

(excuse my spelling, its like 4am and i cannot sleep thinking about lost and needed to tell some people my thoughts)

--- I think Vincent doesn't have to be Jacob's "incarnation" but maybe it's enough that he was somehow guided by Jacob. Or simply, Vincent is a convenient means substituting coincidence, like in all those catastrofic movies where animals show the way out or find medicine and so on, because someone has to do it structurally. About Desmond - he might be in all places at the same moment, if you know what I mean. Like omniscient, because of this whole energy flowing through him, so he becomes one with the timeline for those seconds when he is in there. That's why he is more determined now and he knows what to do.

--- I dont know with Desmond, I cant get my head around him being in one timeline then going to another (even if for a few seconds) does that mean that before he came along his body was on auto pilot? See I think im going the other way here with him having two conciousness, If he was in all places at the one time that would mean that somehom he could controll both at the same time. All im sure of is that I love lost.

  • I think he didn't experience this whole FST story when he was unconscious in the cabin. I think, as he fainted in both timelines - OT as a result of magnetic energy and FST while touching Penny's hand, come on, that couldn't have been such a powerful encounter, with due respect, I think it's the same faint, because he revived after few seconds in both timelines - so I think that when he fainted, something else happened to him, something that needed both his consciousness unconscious. But that would mean timelines happen parallel. Does what I'm saying seem to make sense to anyone?
  • It makes sense to me, I think that when the faint happended both minds of desmond became "Aware of each other" this is not to say they were joined but just aware of each other, now I think when this happened they were both assigned a respective task (perhaps from jacob). Desmond says that alot can happen in 20 mins, and its prooved in the episode where desmond is placed way back in the past.

George Minkowski

I have not seen it mentioned anywhere that George Minkowski, Desmond's limo driver in the FST, was in the OT on the freighter ship. He was also jumping back and forth between the past and present, like Desmond, but could not find a constant so he died. His character page shows him as only being in one episode but he was actually in 6 which are listed on IMDB. --Nandadasi 16:07, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, just noticed there are two different character pages for George Minkowski which should be merged. In either case I see no theories about his character being in the FST and the OT. In the FST he kept reminding Desmond to let him know if there was anything at all he could do for him. He seems to know what is really going on and is doing his best to make Desmond happy so his consciousness will stay grounded in the FST.--Nandadasi 16:25, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

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