Confirmed

This episode has now been confirmed, as per primetime grid! --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  06:34, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks, its been added. -Mr.Leaf 09:39, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Charlie = dead?

Not to be spoilery, but I'm hearing that Charlie *possibly* dies in this episode. Plus, people tend to die in their own flashback episodes on Lost... (Isolation815 11:03, 22 April 2007 (PDT))

Well, Boone died in a Locke episode. But yes, I've been hearing the same rumors about Charlie's death. Personally I think it's misinformation, and some other character (perhaps Claire or Desmond) dies. Evil-pineapples 11:41, 22 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Also, I love Charlie and all, but it seems a bit odd that out of all people, HE would get the penultimate flashback episode... Things are not looking up for our resident rock star... :( Evil-pineapples 15:49, 22 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Well, it has been confirmed that Charlie will not be back for Season 4, so it seems he will be leaving us before the next season starts. 10panichellia 08:56, 23 April 2007 (PDT)
  • How do you know he will not be back? --ZEKE?(>
  • Charlie might be doing some dangerous stunts that involve him having to swim underwater, but instead of being found dead (drowned) thereafter by the other losties, maybe he is actually not found at all.--Madally wurlpiz 06:54, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
  • I doubt whether Charlie will die, because "Lost" always tries to surprise us, and that wouldn't be a surprise (stressing the fact that Desmond speaks a lot about his death) BeŻet 10:38, 3 May 2007 (PDT)
  • They may have confirmed Charlie wont be back for Season 4...but what about 5? In Expose, Locke stated "Things on this island don't stay buried for long". Just a thought. -~Genus~

Synopsis

While Jack devises a plan to do away with “The Others” once and for all, Sayid uncovers a flaw in “The Others’” system that could lead to everyone’s rescue. But it requires Charlie to take on a dangerous task that may make Desmond’s premonition come true.

Source: [1] (page 6)

--elpaw 07:55, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

Change to "Unconfirmed (possibly Charlie)"

Everyone on the internet agress it's a Charlie episode, shouldn't this be changed to the "Unconfirmed (possibly ___)" status that "The Man Behind the Curtain" has, and other episodes had before they aired? ShadowUltra 07:32, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

The way I've been allowing the possibly thing is if the actor has said its their flashback or a guest star has said its their flashback. Without a guest list (e.g. showing Liam Pace would be enough grounds for me), there is no actual good citation for saying its Charlie other than from spoiler sites, unless I'm wrong. Without a good piece of evidence, we can't put something on the basis of sheer gossip --Nickb123 (Talk) 08:25, 28 April 2007 (PDT)
OOOOOOH okay. That was really just a thinly veiled question that was really asking what the criteria for adding the possibly thing was. Works for me! ShadowUltra 13:56, 28 April 2007 (PDT)

Charlie Centric-Proof

I've seen footage of the episode as filmed by a local. It shows charlie walking through a street, decorated as London. He's carrying his guitar, he hears a scream and runs off to help. I'll try and find the source. (Arjayoh 03:34, 29 April 2007 (PDT))

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/search/label/Behind%20the%20Scenes (Arjayoh 03:42, 29 April 2007 (PDT))
Consider the possibility that the producers are filming misdirection scenes. This is a common practice with shows that are filming season-ending cliff-hangers, and don't want to spoil them with leaks. Remember Who Shot J.R.? For that one, they filmed scenes of every single character pulling the trigger. They even shot a scene with J.R. as his own shooter! Larry Hagman is said to have ad-libbed, "Take that J.R., you son of a bitch!" Zicsoft 13:28, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

The Episode Number

It should say 21st, not 21th ;) Wilko 11:05, 29 April 2007 (PDT)

Press Release

JACK DEVISES A PLAN TO DO AWAY WITH “THE OTHERS,” SAYID UNCOVERS A FLAW IN “THE OTHERS’” SYSTEM THAT COULD LEAD TO RESCUE, AND CHARLIE’S DANGEROUS TASK MAY MAKE DESMOND’S PREMONITION COME TRUE, ON ABC’S “LOST”

“Greatest Hits” – While Jack devises a plan to do away with “The Others” once and for all, Sayid uncovers a flaw in “The Others’” system that could lead to everyone’s rescue. But it requires Charlie to take on a dangerous task that may make Desmond’s premonition come true, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, MAY 16 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

“Lost” stars Naveen Andrews as Sayid, Henry Ian Cusick as Desmond, Emilie de Ravin as Claire, Michael Emerson as Ben, Matthew Fox as Jack, Jorge Garcia as Hurley, Josh Holloway as Sawyer, Daniel Dae Kim as Jin, Yunjin Kim as Sun, Evangeline Lilly as Kate, Elizabeth Mitchell as Juliet, Dominic Monaghan as Charlie and Terry O’Quinn as Locke.

Guest starring are Tania Raymonde as Alex, Blake Bashoff as Karl, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Mira Furlan as Rousseau, Brian Goodman as Pryce, Marsha Thomason as Naomi, Neil Hopkins as Liam, Joshua Hancock as Roderick, John Henry Canavan as Simon Pace, Jeremy Shada as young Charlie, Zack Shada as young Liam, L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Sam Anderson as Bernard, Andrea Gabriel as Nadia, Lana Parrilla as Greta and Tracy Middendorf as Bonnie.

“Greatest Hits” was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Stephen Williams.

”Lost” is broadcast in 720 Progressive (720P), ABC’s selected HDTV format, with 5.1-channel surround sound and Spanish audio via SAP.

A TV parental guideline will be assigned closer to airdate.


[Word] - [PDF]

Flippy 12:07, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks Flippy, I'll sift through and update everything ASAP --Nickb123 (Talk) 12:13, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
So Rose and Bernard have finally made it to Season 3 in person. Finally!  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:45, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Am I the only one that noticed this:

Guest starring are Tania Raymonde as Alex, Blake Bashoff as Karl, Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert, Mira Furlan as Rousseau, Brian Goodman as Pryce, Marsha Thomason as Naomi, Neil Hopkins as Liam, Joshua Hancock as Roderick, John Henry Canavan as Simon Pace, Jeremy Shada as young Charlie, Zack Shada as young Liam, L. Scott Caldwell as Rose, Sam Anderson as Bernard, Andrea Gabriel as Nadia, Lana Parrilla as Greta and Tracy Middendorf as Bonnie.

NADIA. AND NEW PEOPLE. Omigosh. My brain is going to blow. Like Arzt. (Isolation815 15:15, 1 May 2007 (PDT))

Flashback

Charlie flashback with Nadia in it, ooh another connection. Looks good, and we see the Others again. And Rose and Bernard finally, but where is Tom? Anyway, looks like another good episode. P.S. who is Simon Pace? I'm guessing uncle or cousin or something.-Mr.Leaf 14:07, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

Well it's good to see Sam Anderson and L. Scott Caldwell haven't retired. Tom is missing which is a bummer. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:15, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
Totally rampant speculation here but... perhaps Tom has died? (Say it ain't so!) Evil-pineapples 19:54, 30 April 2007 (PDT)
I think Simon is the father of the Pace boys, the butcher. And Rose and Bernard appear with the flashback characters...are they connected to Charlie? --Blueeagleislander 01:26, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
I always assumed Simon Pace was Charlie's father--Phil (talk) 12:20, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
It is unlikely that Simon will be Charlie's father beacuse in "Fire + Water" Mr. Pace was portrayed by Robin Atkin Downes. --Bobi (talk) (contribs) 12:51, 1 May 2007 (PDT)
It's not THAT unlikely, in Fire + Water we only see Charlie's dad for about four seconds. Plus it could be Charlie's dad in another time period. Young Charlie again, too... Damon and Carlton *did* say that we'd find out about Charlie's home life in a future episode, his father specifically. I think they mentioned that it was before the end of S3 (it has to be, because there's no Dominic in S4) (Isolation815 15:28, 1 May 2007 (PDT))

Nadia

I wonder what part Nadia will play in the flashback (or even ON THE ISLAND!) =)--Phil (talk) 13:28, 2 May 2007 (PDT)

  • Maybe Nadia will be on the Island, because he told Sayid at the back of the photograph: "you will find me in the next life, if not in this one". Jack also met Desmond on the island, and prior to that Desmond told Jack: "I'll see you in another life, yeah?". And of course, Cooper said to Locke: "See you on the other side, son", after conning Locke for his kidney. Thus the idea: The Island = Another life? Alternate life perhaps?--Madally wurlpiz 07:19, 4 May 2007 (PDT)

Trailer

Trailer

  • At the very end you can hear Karl say "My people, they're coming right now!"--Presariocompaq 20:44, 9 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I too heard the voice but well done for identifying it as Karl --Jazza|talk|Contributions 02:57, 11 May 2007 (PDT)
  • At least Bernard is alive and still on the Island. Didn't think of him as a gun type of man...--Phil (talk) 12:58, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

Flashback confirmed

I think the flashback has been confirmed for quite a while now. Fer chrissakes, the cast list is on the page and obviously demonstrates that it will be Charlie-centric.

Also, what is the source on Dom not returning next season? --Nathew 23:13, 9 May 2007 (PDT)

I dont think there is one. i think alot of people are basing this information on IMBD which is edited by users like us. --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 04:56, 11 May 2007 (PDT)

I think it was on Watch with Kristin a while back. She said Dom heard he wouldn't be back S4. (Isolation815 07:48, 15 May 2007 (PDT))

Christmas?

This may fit better with the season finale depending on how many days Greatest Hits occurs over, but..The Man Behind The Curtain took us up through December 23rd. If the Others are indeed coming to the beach, in two days, as Ben said, to take babies and/or pregnant women, they will be doing so on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. Does anyone else think there's anything to that, or is it just plain old creepy? Especially there's been some Holy Family imagery with Charlie, Claire, and Aaron in the past.--Booninite 14:38, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Thats fine and all--I'm not suggesting that this means they'll be celebrating Christmas with presents and carols (obviously), but I think the (reverse?) symbolism is still fairly interesting, in the greater scope of Lost's biblical allusions.--Booninite 07:19, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

I'd like to remind everyone of what happened on the 26/12/04 too... see here. They haven't ruled out including this in the islands events... --Sixtyten 08:01, 14 May 2007 (PDT)

Rose and Bernard

Damon and Carlton said a while back on the podcast that Rose and Bernard (on the guest list for this ep) would be back before the finale and have a big story. (Christmas on the island, maybe? I can totally see Bernard dressed up as Santa...) But we don't really have time for another big subplot before the end of the season, do we? I'd be willing to see that happen early-mid S4... also, DID BEN REALLY HAVE TO SHOOT LOCKE 2 EPISODES BEFORE THE END OF THE SEASON!?! I'm afraid some stuff will be too rushed... when do you guys think we'll be seeing some of these stories pick up? (Locke, Rose and Bernard, Naomi, Christmas etc.) (Isolation815 07:51, 15 May 2007 (PDT))

There's lots that Bernard and Rose still don't know about each other, eh? He didn't know she was an expert with knots, better than him even. She didn't know he was an expert marksman.--Lucky Day 23:50, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Who is the voice saying, "My people are coming, right now!" in the preview?

It didn't sound like anyone we know, and they didn't show a face. Maybe it's a Hostile saboteur?

It sounded like Karl to me. Dharmatel4 21:13, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Yeah it sounded like Karl--Jabadibah 21:24, 15 May 2007 (PDT)

Is Simon, Charlie's dad?

I'm guessing Simon Pace is Charlie's dad. I don't think it's he's cousin or uncle, as the actor playing him in the episode sorta has that same stature as the person's body we saw playing charlies dad in Fire+water.

New Station?

In the new sneak peak Juliet talks about a place called "The looking glass" where Ben is jamming all signals on the island. Does this mean there's an unvisited Dharma station? or maybe it's not Dharma related... I guess we'll find out soon enough... can't wait! --Avudim 00:52, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • It may be connected to the cable that Sayid found before being captured by Danielle! --Smokelodge

Seems to long a name to be DHARMA. Perhaps an Other imitation of it? --Blueeagleislander 00:57, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • Perhaps it is called "The looking glass" because it's a glass room under water where Dharma workers observed the Dharma sharks and other underwater experiments. --Smokelodge
    • Looking Glass typically means mirror. None of the station names (so far) has had anything to do with its function. All of them so far are mythological references to Apollo. Dharmatel4 09:06, 16 May 2007 (PDT)


The Looking Glass  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  01:11, 16 May 2007 (PDT)


]

Specifically:

Tonight, you will visit a new Dharma station. You will see the terrifying revival of Jack, Bad-ass King of the Castaways. You will see Charlie — destined-to-die ex-druggie; happily reconstructed one-hit-wonder rocker; Claire-smitten surrogate Aaron daddy — make an extraordinarily courageous choice that in many ways sums up what Lost is all about for me.


So there you go. :)

--Gare ny 14:06, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

What a wonderful episode!

I saw it on the Canadian channel, and thought Charlie left the ring by accident in Aaron's crib. Then I watched on ABC a second time, and saw the part again where Liam tells him to give it to his children. He passed it on to Aaron. God, this was a heartbreaking episode. I, for one, hope Charlie lives.

Oh, and how did the people in the Looking Glass (they don't look like Hostiles/DHARMA to me) get there? I saw no boat.

I expect they have a watercraft or elevator of some kind somewhere. We've only seen a small bit of the Looking Glass so far. And by the way... that was my favorite episode of Season 3 (so far). Well done to Eddie Kitsis + Adam Horowitz, excellent writers, and the performances of Dom Monaghan and Henry Ian Cusick were wonderful! Evil-pineapples 20:05, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • I think that we just saw a second faction of the Others. When Ben told everyone that there was an accident and The Looking Glass was flooded, it was a cover story to keep anyone from investigating the station. - Hunter 20:07, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Or to keep somebody from unjamming the signal. Evil-pineapples 20:20, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
  • My first thought was they were Hostiles and they were stranded there when Locke presumably blew up the Submarine. Of course Juliet says they don't know how to get into it.--Lucky Day 23:45, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
  • It's highly likely they have scuba gear. Stew Erickson 09:18, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Odd choices Charlie

Anyone think Charlies choices for his best memories to be a bit odd? Thinking back, you'd imagine that when he got his piano or when his band made it big with their first label and single would make the list of best memories. Especially over going swimming for the first time, though no Charlie episode is complete without a touching story of his childhood.

I'm not harping on it, I liked the episode and can see that they might not want to re-do some flashback stuff but in terms of what Charlie picked, those events must have had huge effects on him to go over the birth of his love for music (the piano) etc. Just a thought.Voodoo 20:30, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • Were the flashback scenes from the first night of the crash old or new footage? Or a mixture? I'm curious about that. Evil-pineapples 20:39, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Was Charlie's flashback of playing "Wonderwall" intended to be the same event as previously seen in "Flashes Before Your Eyes when Desmond encounters Charlie in his lucid flashback? The location and camera work and sudden rainstorm all appear to suggest it's the very same event. Interesting though that Charlie remembers events taking place differently with no appearance by Desmond. --Spiral 23:45, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
    • Does this mean Desmond didn't go back and re-live his past? If not, what was he doing?--Austin2179 06:33, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
    • I saw comparisons of screenshots from "Flashes Before Your Eyes and this episode. It seems Charlie is wearing different clothes, and is actually on a different street corner. Does this mean they are two different events? Or are these the same event, but in different timelines? Like in one timeline, maybe Charlie decided to wear something different from the other timeline's Charlie....and went to a different corner.
      • Probably two different events then. --Spiral 22:35, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
      • With the way things have been going, I like the notion that they are two different time lines. I've been pondering how all of this will be written by the writers. All the flashback cross overs and stuff I mean. At first I thought maybe the reason for people showing up in different peoples flashbacks was due to a 6 degrees of separation type theory and Dharma had a part in it. But after reading the mention of Charlie and Desmond experiencing different pasts makes me like the idea of these flashbacks being from different timelines. So in a sense if enough of "you" experience enough different streams of time eventually you are just a handshake or two away from everyone. This show has a lot of really cool directions it can take still. I just hope the writers choose one. --Suddud (Talk) 02:03, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Karl flashback?

Should Karl really be listed as having a flashback in this episode? If anything, I would say that the flashback was more from the point of view of Alex, since Karl wasn't there for Ben's return. Jimbo the tubby 20:47, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

It's arguable. You can say the same for The Other 48 Days. Who's flashback was that, if anyone's? I think this was not anyone's flashback, just a general "6 hours ago" segment to explain what happened with Karl. Evil-pineapples 20:49, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • I'd say this was just an establishing scene that explained Karl running to the beach. I personally think the article should run chronologically and make an "At the Others camp" section just mentioning Ben's new orders, Karls hideout and him paddling to the Losties camp rather than confusing people with this flashback business. Voodoo 21:03, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
    • I agree with Voodoo, if I were forced to categorize the flashback I would give the Island ownership of the flashback especially since it does seam to have a life of its own.

Day 92 or 93?

Some other editor and I keep going back and forth between which day this episode takes place on: day 92 or day 93. I keep saying it's 93 because The Man Behind the Curtain's closing scene took place on this date, but he keeps saying day 92. Which is correct? I'm aware that the timeline is a bit hazy right now, but I'm pretty sure we've established TMBtC's timeline at least. Evil-pineapples 20:55, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

According to The Man Behind the Curtain page, it spans 91-92. According to Karl's flashback, Greatest Hits happens on the same day as the last scene in Curtain, hence 92. --Jackdavinci 14:33, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

"hatch" terminology on Looking Glass document

The use of the term "hatch" on Sayid's schematic of the Looking Glass seems like a mistake. "hatch" is a lostie term and it makes sense for describing hatches found in the jungle. But DHARMA would have called it station. I can't think of anyone who would call a large elaborate underwater base a "hatch" in official schematics. Dharmatel4 20:59, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • I agree, it was unusual when I saw it. But since it said it, I have been referring to it as a hatch instead of a station.Voodoo 21:04, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
    • Its acceptable to use it as a lostie term, but I think we should disregard the papers as a mistake as far as what the DHARMA name should be. Juliet called it a station too. Dharmatel4 21:18, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
      • I think we should be careful about disregarding the papers as a mistake. That's a pretty big mistake to be made. I still think that there is a chance that the term "hatch" is deliberate in terms of its function. I agree that she called it a "station" but the papers clearly also call it a hatch, in its own terms, not necessarily the terms that the Losties have used it. Hatch can also mean doorway or opening.--LOSTinDC 10:22, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
        • A plausable explaination would be that the papers (which show the sub dock) are referring to the "hatch" into the station. An underwater station on stilts above the sea floor seems an unlikely place for a door. Dharmatel4 19:56, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Why not cut the wire?

I'm wondering why they didn't just cut that power cord that runs from The Looking Glass. That's probably where the power comes from and what powers the signal interference, why didn't they just cut that and see what happens? Especially if they thought it was abandoned? Can anyone shed light on to that? Voodoo 21:08, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

It doesn't look like a power cord. If it was a live power cord, cutting it is not a trivial thing. It looks more like a communications cable than power. Besides, Jack was too busy organizing his terrible plan to do anything that would have made sense. Dharmatel4 21:16, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
If its not a power cord, then it must be a signal cable, as mentioned. It seems unlikely that an underwater station can jam a signal across the entire space of the island from one side of the island (through mountains it might be added). These frequencies that are used for radio and satellite communications are often very dependent on line of sight and degrade rapidly in the presence of obstacles (i.e. mountains). If the cable runs to the radio antenna on the island, then we could assume that the jamming signal is emitting from that antenna. If that is the case, then cutting the cable should have the affect of removing the jam as effectively (probably better than) assuming that cutting the cable removes power to the Looking Glass (which almost certainly has a generator backup anyways). --Rjtalbot 21:53, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
Whatever "jamming" is going on doesn't seem to be following the normal rules of such things. Somehow a wide spectrum of signals is being blocked from being received/sent from the island, but can still be picked up on the island itself. And that makes no sense. As an example, the tower can't be jamming the Distress Signal being generated by the tower itself given that Sayid could pick up the signal on the island. That indicates the jamming effect doesn't even apply to the island but somehow blocks signals at a distance. Dharmatel4 00:04, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Don't forget though that the signal was very weak, and they were on the island. I'd imagine that it would be impossible to pick up the transmission if you weren't on the island.--Brett 08:46, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
Maybe Juliet just doesn't know what she's talking about.
How difficult would it be to sever the cord by packing a few sticks a dynamite around it?
It does seem that, whether or not cutting the cable will ultimately work, the characters would at least consider it. It was certainly the first thing that came to my mind.--paulski 05:21, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
You're right. They could easily have cut the wire to see if that would work. But does that make for great, exciting television? I think not.ElekJappa 11:29, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Isn't it just used as an anchor to the mainland? That's the impression I got. --Sixtyten 13:29, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
The schematic just labels it as an "anchor to land." The fact is, we don't know what it is for, so anything definitive is merely speculation at this point. Roger Workman 20:35, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
The schematic gives two views of the attachment of the cable to the land. A top view which says anchor to land and a side view that shows what looks like an anchor point for the cable close to shore that isn't there anymore. "Anchor to land" almost certainly refers to properly anchoring the cable to the shoreline which would be the proper way to build something like this rather than just leaving the cable to flop around in the sand and in the jungle. Dharmatel4 06:50, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
That's a pretty hefty cord, and I doubt they have anything sufficient to cut it with. Remember that Jack was going to amputate Boone's leg with a sliding door of the aircraft. If they had a machete or an ax I doubt he would have resorted to such means. And, not knowing anything about that station at all, it makes sense not to destroy part of it. If it is somehow involved in transmitting signals, maybe it could be of some use later if the satellite phone doesn't work.
Is it possible they didn't cut the "Anchor" for fear they may need to use it as a Plan B if their first try fails and, as an example, it enables communication between say the Radio Tower and The Looking Glass? I'm not terribly tech savvy so i don't really know.--HAL4815162342 14:51, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
A connection from The Looking Glass to the tower was my thought too. Didn't Desmond and entourage follow the cable into the jungle a ways? Also, consider this on the whole jamming concept... what if The Looking Glass is outside the "magic bubble" of the island that seems to isolate it from the world? Maybe the jamming is only occurring outside the bubble because the Others weren't able to prevent RF transmission from leaking out. I dunno, now that I typed it, it sounds less likely! Stew Erickson 09:26, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
Transmission jamming and anchoring aside, don't you think that at least one Lostie (presumably Sayid) would at any one time wonder what the heck the cable was for? From the first time we saw it in season one it was obvious that it wasn't just laying there for no reason. And, I admit that after seeing the cable as Sayid had I'd be at a crossroads as to whether I'd go into the jungle to find that end of the cable or to enter the ocean to find where that end leads, but I think I'd have done the opposite of Sayid and tried to figure out where the ocean part leads instead of the jungle. That moment aside, Sayid saw a cable and immediately forgot about it upon returning to the beach camp and Hurley, et al. didn't seem to care about its ocean-going half either. After how incredibly important to the main storyline the Swan became, it seems the cable would have raised more of an interest in the beginning, or at least early second season. -- macosx 04:44, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Jack's bad plan

Jack's actions in the episode didn't seem to make any sense. His plan was basically to blow up at most a few others while leading everyone inland to the radio tower. Hitting dynamite hidden in tents with rifles seems very unlikely to work. Ignoring the chance of rescue in favor of a plan unlikley to accomplish anything lasting makes no sense. And why the radio tower? When did the dark territory that was supposedly so scary become a place where everyone comes and goes as they please? Dharmatel4 21:25, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

  • Not to mention--- what if the Others had decided to send Alex into one of those tents? Wouldn't Danielle have thought of that?
  • Well, judging from the preview for next week, the hitting dynamite plan seems to be working somewhat well ;) and they aren't ignoring the chance for rescue because Charlie is trying to disable the Looking Glass's interference and I believe they are heading to the radio tower to stop it's interference too. I believe moving away from their camp will avoid having The Others snap away everyone since they can sneak in, if the Losties retreat, making the camp explosions a diversion they might last longer. Really, when you're trapped on an island with people who've been there for their whole lives, there aren't many places you can go when those people are hunting you down. Voodoo 21:46, 16 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Per Rousseau, the Others control the radio tower now.
  • Jack is notoriously bad at coming up with plans against the Others. Plan one -- go to "the line" and yell all night that he's crossed it. Plan two -- even though it's uncovered that Michael has been given a list, and that Sawyer, Kate, Hurley and Jack have been set up, Jack decides the best approach would be to go right into the Others' camp and pretend they don't know they've been set up. Plan three -- mark tents as targets and then shoot dynamite with rifles from a distance, and hope to heck it works! Every time he comes up with one of these hare-brained plans, it makes me wonder (rolling my eyes) if he's been working for the Others all along. --Amberjet11 08:08, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • What do you suggest they do then? Run away and hide? Doesn't seem likely to work. They don't have the guns to face them head on, a secret hatch to hide in that the Others don't know about, or a huge boat for them to stay out at sea. What do you think their plan should be? ElekJappa 11:07, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Also, they aren't putting the dynamite in the tents. They are putting the dynamite outside the tents so that they can shoot it from their positions ElekJappa 12:21, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • They should have put their resources on getting the phone working. Even if the tent plan had worked perfectly, it would not have killed *all* the Others. They would be in no better position after using the dynamite than they were before using it. If they put more energy into the phone, they would have had more swimmers out there. They could have possibly used the dynamite against the Looking Glass. They could have got Juliet or Karl to tell them where that big boat the Others have is docked, sink the sailboat and move off the bulk of the people to Hydra Island. If you can't win a head-on fight, you have to run and hide. Its not a matter of how many people can be killed at the tents, its a matter of how taking that action is going to change the situation the next day. Even with success, 24 hours after Jack's plan he would be back in the same situation again. Dharmatel4 12:41, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • What? Use dynamite underwater? They thought the whole station was flooded. That wouldn't make any sense. And even if they run and hide (to the Hydra like you said) they will also be in the same situation 24 hours later. There seems to be cameras fixed on many places on the island. The Others would find them. ElekJappa 13:09, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • No. Its quite possible to use dynamite underwater. Look up explosive fishing if you doubt it. All they had to do was wreck the station and with the amount of dynamite they had, it would have been very possible. The idea is to run and hide while attempting to contact the outside. They should be able to stay ahead of the others or failing that to defend themselves long enough to make contact with the outside. Dharmatel4 13:41, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Isn't Dynamite's ability to act as a concussion instrument compromised at all when under water?--HAL4815162342 15:10, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Jack wanted to reduce their manpower, thus making it easier for the rest to "run and hole up" as he'd have less people tailing them and perhaps can defend a central position until help comes. It's not quite a lateral move as suggested, but it is a gamble that would seem to net minimal gains if executed to perfection. Using the Dynamite against the looking glass seems like a good idea, but as unstable as the dynamite is as well as securing an underwater ignition source (believing the station to be flooded) that seems more unlikely to work than flipping Desmond's "flashed" switch. Granted the dynamite is stable enough to trek accross the island with at will, but still, this route makes for a far more interesting finale! Plus it would seem there is more to the plan than we've seen. Although we thought that last year and was wrong. Bah, everyone's plan/leader/hero has flaws, we're human, murphy's law is in effect.--HAL4815162342 14:43, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Love that Jack's been relying on Rousseau to get the dynamite. Guess she's expendable really...
  • So far every season finale has involved a plan by the Losties to make use of extremely unstable dynamite.
  • In Jack's defense, using the rifles wasn't the original plan, they were going to wire them up properly, and simply ran out of time.

Desmond's Premonition

Unlike prior episodes, we never see any images of Desmond's premonitions about Charlie's death in this episode. Could mean the writers intentionally left it out to shroud something about the images that would reveal something important about Desmond' motivations or it could be entirely innocent. It might be worth, at a minimum, mentioning this fact on the Trivia section of the article. --Rjtalbot 21:49, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

I agree; I found this very interesting. I almost wondered if Desmond wasn't testing Charlie, or if the whole point of the promonition wasn't to get Charlie out on the boat while Desmond went down to The Looking Glass.--paulski 04:59, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
I'm not sure that's accurate. Desmond described Charlie being struck by lightning, drowning trying to save Claire, and falling and hitting his head on a rock while trying to tag a bird, but we never saw any of those things. I think the only premonition we actually saw was Charlie being shot in the throat with an arrow. --Toasty 07:13, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Exactly, the theory about Desmond lying that cites that the "viewer didn't see the flash" is speculative, and should likely be reworded or expanded if it is to be a theory as laid out by the criteria.--HAL4815162342 14:26, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
Also in both of the flashbacks the lyrics in "Wonderwall" that Charlie is singing say, "maybe you're gonna be the one that saves me". Referring to Desmond.
Have we seen a flash in a non-Desmond episode? I don't think so.--Cmpieper 11:10, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Maybe they just didn't feel like filming two underwater sequences without a stunt double. --Amberjet11 08:09, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
I had a "flash" that what Desmond actually saw was Penny getting off the helicopter, not Claire and the baby getting on. This would be more consistent with his motivation to get Charlie to dive, and perhaps his second thoughts on the boat. ilan 06:31, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
That's probably the case. It fits with his attitude in Catch-22, as well.

DHARMA station names

The Looking Glass as a station is different in two ways that most other stations. It has an inverted logo like the Pearl and it has a name that doesn't follow the greek myths theme of most of the stations. There may now be a new name pattern. Can anyone think of a link between "Alice in Wonderland"/Lewis Carroll and "Pearl". Dharmatel4 22:38, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Note that the logo has to be inverted for it to be a white rabbit. --Doc 10:36, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
The outer part of the logo is what I'm referring to as inverted. The center portion could be a white rabbit following the pattern of a non-inverted logo like the Hydra. Dharmatel4 12:48, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Alex's Motive

I don't agree with the part in the description of this episode that says Alex actively wanted Locke to kill Ben. I think Alex was just giving Locke a gun for self-defense, knowing what Ben was capable of.

    • My take on it was that everytime Ben goes out with someone to visit Jacob, that person doesn't return, and she knows it, so as was said she gave Locke the gun for self-defense.

Looking Glass Locked

There's a deleted article on the Looking Glass. It clearly has some significance now. Does anyone now why its locked?--Lucky Day 23:47, 16 May 2007 (PDT)

Choosing the Shooters aka Who will Stay Behind

Who ended up staying to shoot? Jin, Bernard, and Sayid? Rousseau needed to show them where the tower was and Sayid made Jack lead them. He realizes that Jack is too emotionally attached to the situation. Like Locke, I can't see Rose going anywhere without Bernard. She has the same faith that Locke does clearly and is not worried. Kate is probably the best marksman but possibly only with a pistol. For that matter I haven't seen Jin with a rifle either but he has had gangster training. So far we haven't seen him kill anyone..but Sun has. Maybe they should let her shoot. I would guess she wouldn't want to give herself away. Sawyer, although willing, can't aim straight. I can't see Jack as the best person with a gun. We saw Desmond shooting boar so maybe he was the more logical choice. Now why all of a sudden is Bernie a good marksman? That seems a bit convenient--Lucky Day 23:58, 16 May 2007 (PDT).

actually Kate isnt the best marksman ? when Jack and kate were caught in rousseau's net, she took a shot and missed while jack hit the rope with the first shot ? or am i mistaken ? FabC 05:55, 17 May 2007 (PDT)FabC
  • Correct -- up until that point, though, Kate *was* a good marksman. I consider that scene the exact moment when Jack jumped the shark. --Amberjet11 08:11, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Jin served in the military as per an earlier episode. Jin, Bernard and Sayid stayed behind. Rose left for the tower. Marksmanship will do little good. The plan depends on the explosives being hidden in the tents and if the explosives are hidden in the tents, it makes it an almost impossible shot. Dharmatel4 00:13, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
If I remember correctly, the dynamite was to be hidden right next to the tents (covered with, say, a tarp). When the Others enter the tents to grab the women, the Losties shoot the bundles next to the tents, and...BOOM!--paulski 04:57, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
Right. The original plan was to have the explosives in the tent and wired for controlled detonation. The shooting was the panicked fallback and involved moving the explosives outside. --Bastion 07:06, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Greta = Cassidy Phillips?

Does anyone else see a resemblence between Greta in the Looking Glass and Cassidy Phillips (Sawyer's con target in "The Long Con" and who befriended Kate in "Left Behind")? Bird1234 05:16, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Similarities, but they are played by different actresses according to ABC press releases --Nickb123 (Talk) 07:09, 17 May 2007 (PDT)


I'm not sure if this is a long shot, but what if the two women in the Looking Glass came with Naomi? When she was talking to "Patchy" didn't Lostpedia reveal that she said, "I'm not alone" instead of "Thank You" as he said? --Bremehr 12:27, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

thats a really good point they might have come with her however she could also be reffering to the fact there is a boat 80 miles away, buuuuuuuuut the helicopter did crash in the ocean so maybe they were still on the helicopter when it crashed and they swam down to it. The last time I checked you didn't go on rescue mission's by yourself.

Naomi and Charlie?

During the flashback, and Charlie is singing Wonderwall, the camera pans the small crowd. Isn't Naomi standing there? --Hole fan 07:08, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Glad Someone else saw that --ConnerXcountry57 07:47, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Can someone post a screenshot? --Amberjet11 08:11, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
I don't see much resemblance.Burt Gummer 12:45, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

321buskingcrowd.jpg

  • I thought it was Naomi too, but when she walked away I think she looked white.--Theslate 13:05, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • The camera did seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on the passersby and/or the environs, even to the point of holding the shot after the people had left. As if there is something that we are supposed to see. --Jburnson 16:19, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I think the shot is just emphasizing the fact that Desmond is not present. Evil-pineapples 16:23, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Do you mean Naomi is the big guy on the right? ;) I went back and looked, but none of the people looked remotely like Naomi. Roger Workman 18:44, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I am more impressed by them filming actual plates of Covent Garden station. Using the real thing, rather than annoying people by faking it. However, the road markings just before Charlie saved Nadia were VERY American!  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  02:17, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
  • I am thinking this is green-screeny, it just had an abnormal lighting to it. Just an opinion though --Frenkmelk 18:32, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
But you are right, Frenkmelk. It is indeed a GS/BS scene. Roger 04:09, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

Flashback section

As the Others flashback bit messes up the entire system, should we keep it under realtime, or should we have it as a subsection of Flashback (i.e. ===Charlie-centric=== and then ===Others-centric===)? --Nickb123 (Talk) 07:13, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Juliet knowing People are inside the looking glass

Does any one else think that she may have Known?--ConnerXcountry57 07:50, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

With the three years on the island, and after seeing her relationship with Ben, I would say she truly believed the station to be flooded and unmanned.The-room 10:21, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

PREVIEWS

The previews for the next episode look amazing! Looks like the Finale episode is gonna kick but!--ConnerXcountry57 07:52, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

RE:Questions

So on the question sectoin of this page it talks about how did the girls in the looking glass know that Charlie was there? Well maybe it was the fact that he was screaming, "I'm alive!" at the top of his lungs? I don't know that was a little loud to me, so maybe that's how! Anyway that's just my two cents. What if Desmond dies? That would be sad... ;(. Pretty sure I almost cried during that episode! Hey so also during one of the previews recently, there was a glowing person in white. Did anyone else notice that? Just wondering if we'll see it this season, hopefully.

  • Are you talking about the woman glowing in white standing in the woods? I think that was artistic effect given to a scene from The Man Behind the Curtain, when Ben sees his Mother in the woods. --LOSTinDC 10:28, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Having a laugh?

I'm really not sure this counts much as a cultural reference- it's a very commonly used phrase in the UK! I really, really don't think it's a nod to Extras by the writers. --Chocky 12:47, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Thanks to whoever made the change!--Chocky 12:55, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Just to back that up, the only reason it was used in Extras was just because it's such a common phrase. Still, aren't the producers fans of The Office? I believe Hurley is the owner of a paper company in Slough! Surely that's enough to allow the cultural reference? Burt Gummer 10:31, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Swimming in a sea of confusion

Now... I was completely under the impression that Charlie cannot swim. He didn't go after Joanna in 'White Rabbit' saying "I don't swim", and Des said he drowned trying to save Claire, which also would lend itself to the theory that Charlie is a stone in the water... In fact the only time you see him swimming is in his vision in 'Fire+Water'.

So, he's now a Junior swim champ? Am I missing something? I can't quite get my head around that! (sorry if this has already been mentioned elsewhere, but I can't find it so far) Blackannis 14:36, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

He was lying about being a Junior swim champ. He only said that so Jack and Sayid would let him go down to the Looking Glass and die like Desmond predicted he would so that Claire and Aaron would get rescued. -Mr.Leaf 14:48, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
But if you can't swim, you CAN'T swim. He seemed to be swimming just fine. That's kinda what I'm getting at. Why say you can't when you can, especially if there's someone drowing in front of you? (My dad can't swim; I know the look of terror he gets when faced with water!) Blackannis 14:58, 17 May 2007 (PDT)
When I was in swim class, they always told us not to enter the water to save drowning people... always throw a line or something. You should let someone with training save a drowning person, because they're liable to drown you as well. --Jonthegm 22:46, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

No doubt the "swim champ" lie was just to avoid argument. When Joanna was drowning, Charlie was still high as a kite most of the time, and may have been too stoned, scared or disinterested to try; "I can't swim" is an easy and believable lie. Combined with the "greatest hit" with his dad and the fact that he would have died trying to save Claire, it indicates that, like most people, Charlie can swim, but nowhere near well enough to be a lifeguard. Dharmabum 00:04, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

  • But Charlie never did swim! In F+W he dreams/fantasizes he swims, big deal. In GH his Dad holds him on his arms and going down to the station he does not swim at all, he jumps into the water and is pulled down to the floor by a pack of stones. Where does he ever swim on his own? Roger 04:18, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

"Are you on the same Island that I am?", Rousseau--Lucky Day 08:46, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Charlie's angels

(buhdum chhh) Anyways, since Bonnie and Greta visibly have a rack of scuba tanks, what reason would they have for remaining in the Looking Glass? I assume that the Looking Glass has some special duty (like the Swan) that requires full-time occupants. But it must be secret, because the less important Others(ie Juliet) had knowledge about the Swan (see Expose), but Juliet barely knew anything about the Looking Glass. Thoughts?--Theslate 14:47, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

I think that they are original members of DHARMA and that ben knows they are there and covers his ass to te others by telling the others the station is flooded and never to go there. At this point i would say only ben and richard know the true meaning of what happened there and why it is still functional.
I have a suspicion that Bonnie and Greta are part of a whole new group of people - not original DHARMA, not "natives". Pure speculation, but we'll see in less than a week, hopefully. If they aren't, I'm sure only Ben (and maybe Richard, although doubtful) is aware of their presence, regardless of which group they were originally a part of. Dharmabum 00:11, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
If the wormhole theories are true, and I think they are, Ben would need people to guard the only controlled way of getting on and off the island. When Richard travels to and from the island, he takes the sub from the island to the looking glass, then the wormhole back to the realworld. Ben couldn't risk people accidentally showing up, just like how he showed his concern when flight 815 crashed, or when Naomi landed on the island.--Austin2179 06:25, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

Jacob John Ben and Richard

I'm not convinced that John is dead. The way Richard Asked about him made me think that maybe the 'mass grave' is a proving ground. A proving of ones worth to the island. The bodies that remain are the people that weren't worthy. I say this because of the way Richard begins to ask, "Did John see...?" to which Ben only says that Locke had an accident, leaving Richard without words. Its almost as if Richard was shocked that he saw and the way BEN says like an angry child who was proven wrong that he had an accident and walked away.

He was asking if he saw Jacob. I'm assuming therefore that Richard has been to see him in the past  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  02:20, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

The Kiss

I cannot BELIEVE that this has not been mentioned yet on either the discussion page or the main article page!?!? This is Charlie and Claire's first kiss! I thought this was monumental, and it literally brought me to tears. I'm new to all of this, but is there someone that can correct this tragedy and see that this wonderful kiss is added to the episode's chronology of events??--Sithboy 21:02, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

It's not their first kiss. If memory serves, they kissed at the end of Live Together, Die Alone the night after the sky turns purple. Or at least sometime in there. Jimbo the tubby 21:38, 17 May 2007 (PDT)

Definitely not their first kiss, but may be their first kiss since the whole "Charlie's gone crazy and tried to drown Aaron" arc. Can anyone with better memory confirm that? Dharmabum 00:06, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Not their first kiss, and they're the worst pair on the island, so I hope they both cop it in the finale! There, I said it :D  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  02:24, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
  • From the synopsis:
  • At the camp, the "QUARANTINE" hatch door fall from the sky, indicating some great blast, and of the Hatch's occupants, only a partially deaf Charlie emerges soon afterwards. Later that night, Charlie and Claire partially reconcile, with Claire giving him a small kiss.
  • I remember thinking this was weird at the time, because nobody seemed concerned about the disappearances of Eko, Locke, etc.--Amberjet11 08:07, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
  • It always amazes me that people are constantly bringing up things like this. Isn't it possible that Eko and Locke's fate were discussed prior to this scene? Do we really need to be watching the castaways constantly sitting around asking each other, "What happened to Locke and Eko? Why did the sky turn purple?" We know these things happened, and I assume that in the background they are discussing them. But since it's nothing new to us, I'd rather not see those discussions taking up precious airtime so that they have time to show us things we really need to see or don't previously know.

Ok, so maybe it's not their first kiss, but it'll be a while before I get back to rewatching Live Together, Die Alone. Judging by the description, that first kiss was barely a peck. Was this one at least a little more, I don't know, intimate? This was more like the kiss of lovers saying goodbye.--Sithboy 16:28, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

I'll be lucky if I hit thirty

I first thought Liam saying this was a reference to Lynyrd Skynyrd lead singer Ronnie Van Zant; according to this Wikipedia article on him, he said the same thing. I was about to add this to this episode's cultural references, but after doing some Googling around I couldn't find any other sources to back this up. This probably isn't a very good place to ask, but can anyone confirm what the Wikipedia article says?

If what Wikipedia says is indeed true, it would be worth noting that unlike Liam, Van Zant did die before he was thirty years old... in a plane crash. Π 08:28, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

hey, erm i havnt got a clue myself wait for a sysop to say, but kudos on the research before adding it straight in! --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 10:54, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

Driveshaft's Greatest Hits

Other than the obvious humor of a "Greatest Hits" album for a one-hit wonder band, I think there's an importnat point raised in Naomi's mention of this album. As the main page for the episode says, "Naomi tells [Charlie] that after his apparent death in the crash of Flight 815, a "Greatest Hits" album was released and became very popular." However, if only 92 have actually passed, it doesn't seem really possible for him to have been pronounced dead, have a new album produced, and have it become a best-seller. This lends some credence to the idea that more time has passed outside the island than on the island. --SeeSaw 08:53, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

  • This obviously shows that time travels slower on the island. If 3 months have passed on the island, but 3 years have passed in the real world, 3 years is plenty of time to make a greatest hits album, release it, and have it become popular. This, combined with the iSat phone, it pretty good evidence.--Austin2179 06:15, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
  • Or that Naomi is a liar. --LOSTinDC 10:06, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
If it's just a repackaged 'greatest hits' album then it could probably be out within weeks. Plus the record label would probably get started without waiting on a death certificate or anything that official. Higsby 10:07, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Agreed, money is best made off of a tragedy when done as close to the time of the tragedy as possible. I'm not 100%, but 3 months after 9/11 I think most of the benefit concerts were done with, Whitney Houston and Mariah Carrey both released benefit singles within the following month or two. The Concert for New York City took place on October 20, 2001 (39 days after). I'm not comparing a single plane going down in the ocean to the 9/11 attack, just giving an example to back my statement. People make money as quickly as possible without always checking facts and being sensitive to those suffering (meaning that some people were offended by blatant attempts to milk money off of the tragedy). --Suddud (Talk) 02:54, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
The Help Album, which was made to support the War Child charity, was recorded on a Monday, and was out in stores on Saturday. Admittedly, it was for a special cause, but it does show you how fast it can be done. Besides, A GH after a tragedy would have to be out pretty quickly to cash in on the news that was still fresh in people's minds. Blackannis 10:24, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Now my memory is foggy again, but with it only being 90 some days, the record would have been fresh in her memory and I thought she was hazy on the details. This could be because she was being polite saying it was a big media deal, when in fact it wasn't, or it could indicate that the time lines are off for those on island. I just wish someone would ask her. Even a non direct question would probably get an answer we want. Someone finally curious: "How soon after the wreck did they find the wreckage?" Naomi: "Didn't take too long, only 6 months for them to find it, get a camera down and confirm you are all dead." Curious: "F! 6 months!?! We've only been here for 3!" Audience: "Thank God they finally partially-answered one of the bigger questions to this show. Now if we could only figure out what Jack has been eating to be getting pudgy instead of losing weight like someone actually stranded on an island." Or am I the only one noticing/bothered by this. --Suddud (Talk) 02:54, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

He was with the Others for a week! Ben had chicken in his fridge, I bet they had ice cream too. He was probably just making up for lost eating time. :P Blackannis 10:14, 23 May 2007 (PDT)
Fair enough, I like that answer a lot better than my "what kind of lazy actor allows themselves to gain weight while starring in the biggest show of their life about being stranded on an Island" theory

Sayid and the Satellite Phone

  • Sayid says Danielle's signal is blocking his ability to contact the ship using the satellite phone. Satellite phones operate in the S-band (2-4GHz). Most maritime radios are in the HF (3-30MHz) or VHF (30-300MHz) bands. The universal maritime distress frequency is 2182KHz (2.182MHz) and would be the most likely frequency to gain the attention of the ship. If the ship has no satellite communication, the satellite phone is worthless. Besides, if they are going to hear Sayid's message on the satellite phone, wouldn't they already be hearing Danielle's distress signal and respond to that? Stew Erickson 10:18, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
    • Naomi came from that ship and had a satellite phone, presumably for communication back to the ship. So I would think the ship obviously has satellite communication. Would be senseless to send someone out from the ship on a mission with a phone that they have no communication with. And that's why they're going to the radio tower - to turn off Rousseau's distress call before they use the phone, and after Charlie turns off whatever is jamming all outbound communications.
Nothing about the jammed communications makes much real-world sense. As is correctly pointed out, Danielle's signal can't really be interefering unless its being broadcast all over the spectrum at the same time and that doesn't make much sense. Sayid certainly didn't pick it up with his little radio on the S-Band. The idea that the Looking Glass is "jamming" the transmissions doesn't quite work either. Its not possible to block a signal going out of a particular location or region while not blocking it *inside* the region. Dharmatel4 11:41, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
Let's assume that the signal from Danielle's distress call is blocking the Satellite Phone. If that is so, it doesn't mean that the radio tower is on the exact same frequency as the phone. It has been around for years and is analog equipment--which means it could drift from frequencies. Now, the Sat. phone would be searching for a digital signal--and because the analog signal would not be clear it could block the data stream from entering and leaving the phone while not being picked up on the phone due to it's analog status. Or it could be a plot device. Who knows. Willo 21:20, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Its plausable that something at the radio tower, perhaps malfunctioning, is generating interference is the S-Band. Frequency drift and the signal itself seem unlikely sources because of the frequencies where the phone operates. The idea of interference would work a whole lot better if it was normal radio rather than a phone but it can work as an explaination. Dharmatel4 22:06, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Rousseau's Help

Someone posted an unanswered question on the main page asking, "Why did Jack and Juliet need to involve Rousseau in their plot instead of just working with other crash survivors?" I assume it's because Rousseau has the batteries to detonate the dynamite. Turns out they don't have time to strip the wire to use it in that fashion because the Others are coming early, but I don't think it's all that mysterious that they asked her to help.

  • Jack need a sucker to move the (very unstable) dynamite. :-)
    • Maybe, but considering Rousseau seems to be the most experienced with dynamite on the island, and she's survived 16 years using it without being blown up, she was the obvious choice for help. Remember what happened to Arzt?! Blackannis 10:24, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
      • Didn't Locke warn her about it being unstable as well? Odd warning with her having the longest time of experience with it. Locke also pointed it out to her, does that mean he moved it? Or does Locke just have a low opinion of her and feels he needs to tell her stuff she already knows. --Suddud (Talk) 02:58, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

I thought Locke's "it's over there" was a way to say "get on with it and don't ask me what I'm doing." As for the unstable part, maybe he thought this was a surprise from Arzt or otherwise non-obvious... --Pedxing 10:35, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

London road markings

That production note might not be entirely true. There are traffic lights with white bars as crossings, they're just not called zebra crossings. I'll see if I can dig a screencap out and see for definite...--Chocky 17:01, 18 May 2007 (PDT)

It is definitely wrong. Also note how the taxi is driving on the right and the road markings are set up for right-side driving. Also the red no-parking lines are on the curbstones, rather than on the road. Surprisingly though, they managed to get the station spot on. I assume this was a blue screen job. Overall, this London is a lot better than the one seen in "Flashes Before Your Eyes".--TechNic|talk|conts 21:37, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
From your description you sound right- I can't remember the setting itself very well, but was more pointing out that the description in the article doesn't sound like it is wrong!--Chocky 21:58, 18 May 2007 (PDT)
On a separate note, I don't know what kind of roadsigns they have in Hawaii, but during the flashback there was a "sheep" warning roadsign which looked remarkably like the British designs like this one, but with a sheep. Specially imported or common in America? Particularly amusing in conjunction with the reference to Clitheroe. --Sixtyten 05:39, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Naah, Americans would mostly use the yellow diamond sign with "xing" to specify an animal crossing. See this link for made-up examples. I've specifically seen this type of sign with an outline of a moose, bear, duck, badger, cow, horse, and yes even sheep here in the northeast part of the USA. --Pedxing 10:39, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
If it was a prop, it's a slightly odd, but cool one to use! --Sixtyten 11:02, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

The usual flashbacks are never coincidental

In the Literary Techniques section someone wrote: "The use of flashbacks on this episode are not coincidental, as it's usual on Lost. Charlie actually remembers "the top five moments of his life", as he describes them, and those moments are shown at the same time he's thinking about them."(bold text by me) In fact everytime a usual flashback happens the person having the FB remembers those events in that very moment. So to point out that Charlies FBs in this episode are shown at the same time he thinks about them is, well, pointless. Roger 04:03, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

I added that part, "coincidental" here meaning "happening at the same time" (co-incidental). I could never think of the people in Lost actually remembering their flashback parts while the realtime action was going on. It's just the way I see it, though; just a format, something the producers insert there to tell their story and to mirror the realtime action, but not what the characters are thinking of at that particular time.
In this episode, this doesn't happen, as Chalie is indeed thinking of those things, recalling them for his list. That's the difference I wanted to point. -- -. Grillage .- 15:31, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Weren't Jack's daddy issues flashbacks part of what he was currently thinking about due to seeing his father? Same with Kate and her horse? I always got the feeling that the flashbacks were memories from the way they shoot the scenes in addition to the fact that what is happening around me makes me think back on similar events, and I assumed the characters were doing the same thing. --Suddud (Talk) 03:03, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
I agree with Suddud. Without going back and viewing a bunch of them, it always seems like the characters are momentarily lost (excuse the pun) in a memory. I seem to remember a few times where certain losties had to kind of be brought back into the hear-and-now with a, "hey are you ok?" or a handwave in front of the eyes or something. Stew Erickson 08:56, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Ben's gun

Did Ben shoot Locke with the gun that Alex gave Locke? Ben gave the gun back to Alex. But it would have seemed like Locke would have had it on him when went into the mass grave if he still had it. Dharmatel4 10:56, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

If so he should have busted a cap in Ben right? -Sloths 20:32, 19 May 2007 (PDT)
The last time we saw that Locke had the gun was when he entered Jacob's house with Ben. It was made very clear that it was in his waistband after he dropped his pack. After that is anyone's guess, but I feel almost sure that the gun is the same. Why would Ben say "here's your gun back" to Alex if it wasn't the same gun. Poetic justice in Ben's eyes I think! Blackannis 10:29, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
Upon realising that Ben's little quip translated to "I'm about to shoot you" Locke pulls his knife. Suggesting that his gun had indeed been taken by Ben. Strangely though it also suggests that Locke knew this. SO you'd think he'd have been ready.--Laika 06:25, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
I dont think he interpreted it as "I'm about to shoot you" because he didn't know Ben had the gun. I think he took it as a challange and that he was going to try to physically beat down Ben like he previously did Mikhail. Dharmatel4 09:24, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Or... maybe Locke knew the gun had been taken and the knife draw was a deliberate move to ensure Ben followed through with shooting him. Maybe Locke is trying to prove to himself (and Ben, maybe even Jacob) that He (Locke) IS indeed "special" and the island knows it. Maybe he is expecting the island to bring him back to life. Stew Erickson 09:03, 22 May 2007 (PDT)
It confused me too, but this is what I came up with: Ben drew the gun from Locke's waistband between the moment Ben stated the fact that he was smarter than Locke and the moment Locke looked with surprise and thought to start turning around. Locke felt his gun being taken and immediately and instinctually knew that the knife was his best chance despite being up against a gun. Locke is shot. The end. -- macosx 04:07, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

Redshirt

This Andyshphere guy keeps removing this part, saying it's not the "right definition of a redshirt": "*The episode makes prominent use of a particular "redshirt" - a blonde-ish woman who is clearly seen several times in foreground activity. Ironically, this redshirt is wearing a blue shirt."

Now, this is from the "Redshirt" entry in Lostpedia: "In Lost, the term redshirt is used in a slightly different way, as the term does not refer to a character who will die by the end of the episode to illustrate the danger of a plot device to the main characters, rather all of the actors that are background cast, or guest stars playing survivors of the Flight 815 crash. Some Lost fans call all extras redshirts, even in flashback scenes. However several have indeed been used in this way: anonymous survivors have died in the aftermath of the crash, or drowned, and in the tail section have been taken by The Others. Rose, Nikki and Paulo are examples of former redshirts that have also been principal cast. Are generally depicted out-of-focus (due to depth of field) with some exceptions. Usually do not speak lines of importance. Therefore, when interacting with speaking characters, they can be seen turning and staring, pointing. In some scenes where mild group interaction occurs, such as the decision to work together to get water ("White Rabbit") or building the SOS sign ("S.O.S."), they usually say obvious things that voice group opinions, such as 'Yeah, that's right'."

Sure, it's not that relevant, but this is trivia from the episode. The girl with the blue shirt is strangely depicted onscreen too often - there may be even a reason for that, even if it's just a joke from the producers on the term redshirt.

I really don't care if Star Trek fans think it "should be different", as long as Lostpedia states that this is how the term works in Lost. -- -. Grillage .- 15:40, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

What do you mean that she is "strangely depicted onscreen too often" ? I'd like to make sure we document how many seconds she was onscreen, so we can track these occurrences of redshirts in the future. Also, is it ironic that she is a redshirt wearing a blue shirt? Or is it ironic that she was on the screen too often? Or is it combination of both things that makes it irony? --Mindfucker 15:57, 20 May 2007 (PDT)
I don't remotely see how this even qualifies as trivia. You think you saw an extra alot more than usual. That doesn't mean anything. As far as the redshirt definition, when you expand the term to mean "extra" its meaningless. The trivia sections are already way too large and full of irrelivant information. Dharmatel4 16:02, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

The thing about the woman being depicted onscreen too often is more qualitative than quantitative (the amount of seconds). I can't recall of a redshirt being shown that prominently without being "temporarily promoted to the main cast", like Nikki, Paulo or Arzt were. Above all that was argued, what I wanted to bring up was the fact that she does have too much onscreen presence compared to the other background people and previous redshirt appearances. This sure caught my attention while I was watching, to the point that I was expecting her to say something. Considering the producers' sense of humor, it wouldn't be trying too hard to think this is an inside joke or so.

I believe the irony thing is open. Sorry, I generally can't really pinpoint irony, but I find it really noticeable that she is wearing a plain blue shirt with no visible details while being a "featured redshirt". Maybe "featured redshirt" is the irony? TechNic helped a lot with the language ("ironic shirt" versus "ironically"), I think he (she?) got what I first meant.

As for the trivia section being cluttered, I honestly would like a definition for trivia. From what I understand, it's pretty much "facts taken from the episode with tangential pertinence" - people could say this is irrelevant, indeed. What is the section there for?

As for "redshirt", if the Lostpedia definition is wrong, then, please, remove the wrong parts. I wasn't familiar with the term until I started watching Lost, so I can't edit that. When I wrote that little piece, I was being as objective as possible, based only on what's there in that entry.

If you guys really think the information is completely useless, then obviously it should be removed. What was annoying me at first was the guy removing the piece on grounds of "wrong definition", when it's not wrong, according to Lostpedia itself. -- -. Grillage .- 16:25, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

I assume you're posting that to get some other opinions? Well, FWIW, here's mine. IMHO, I think you should just let go. Although, like you, I have got into the habit of designating background characters (not background actors) as "redshirts", I nevertheless can see flaws in the paragraph quoted above, which in that wording sounds more like a personal opinion and cannot be branded as The Divine Truth. If you think that that background character woman in Greatest Hits deserves mention, there's an easy way to mention her while avoiding a controversy with the other contributor about which you're complaining. Use the term "background character" or some other term instead of "redshirt". In any case, you should most certainly drop the second sentence about her wearing a blue shirt. That only comes across as an easy pun and completely irrelevant. I do understand that you included the term because of the speculation you make about the writer's intention. But then, that sort of speculation doesn't belong in the article. Therefore, if you mention the character at all, it should be done without the speculative part, which still must be dropped. (Besides, that speculation is extremely unlikely. While I could see how, perhaps, someone might argue that prominence placed on a red-shirted background character might be an allusion to the notion of redshirt, it becomes a stretch to say that prominence placed on a character wearing any other color is an allusion to red.) -- Cheers (talk) 16:30, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

That's possibly the best answer I ever got from anyone on Lostpedia so far. Yes, I was "asking" for other opinions and, yes, you're probably right in this being too little of a "problem". As I pointed before, if you guys think this is completely irrelevant, I'd just ask for people to mention that. It's not vandalism and I like to take small things seriously - not being too a.r. about them, that is. If it's just my eyes being caught on something irrelevant and a lot of people say so, that's pretty much ok. But, again, the definition of a redshirt and an extra should be cleared in that entry.

On the other hand, the Greek mythology part (not my contribution!) has just been removed. I completely understand why that is (it's not a direct cultural reference), but I found it really interesting to read it when I first saw it there. Even if the guys did not referred to it in an obvious manner, should it be deemed as solely speculative? If not, where should it belong? In the trashcan, no mercy? -- -. Grillage .- 16:46, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

This woman is not a redshirt, characters such as Artz, tourniquet man, Gas man, or even nikki or paulo are redshirts. This woman is a member of the background cast. The idea of a redshirt that while the person may have been a member of the background cast before he/she was elevated to a higher status for a single (or even a couple) episodes or a very short period of time for whatever reason, just to accompany someone somewhere, or perform a certain task, or just someone to kill off the person is someone who does have a speaking role, who is a credited actor and who at is essentially "killed off" at the end of the episode. It Lost however the redshirt is not always killed off, but usually just disappears back into the background never to be seen again once his/her purpose has been served. A prime example of this is Sullivan. This woman did not have any lines in the episode, did not do anything important and really was just there. There have been numerous background cast members like this I could point out to you over the past 3 seasons, it may just be now that people start to realize them. Look at the background cast article we have on all the recurring background cast members, this woman might even be on it. I have removed the trivia from the trivia section, and i really don't see any use for it (she is just a background cast member) as it isn't trivia saying a particular redshirt showed up relatively close to the camera a couple times. If she become prominent or becomes a redshirt in the future, maybe but not at the moment. -Mr.Leaf 16:40, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

And now you're using a much more reasonable (to me) definition of a redshirt. This should be made clear in the "Redshirt" entry as well. It's much more comprehensible than the mess that's currently there.

Just FYI ("trivia", if you want :), I just found out the woman in blue is Marcia Ardito, Brazilian like myself. -- -. Grillage .- 16:46, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

I've added an item to the redshirt discussion page, if you guys think this should be discussed. I do think it needs further clarification. Even if my contribution was pretty messed up this time, it was good enough for the comments above, no? -- -. Grillage .- 17:25, 20 May 2007 (PDT)


In answer to an earlier question, the Greek mythology reference and some other cultural references were removed because there has to be some standard of relivance. If someone gets hit in the head with something, there is no point to listing every single movie where the same thing happened. If someone sees a really vague allusion to *part* of a story from Greek myths, that doesn't seem worth mentioning. If there is no standard, the lists just get longer and longer. Almost any story element can be cited in multiple stories, but if the ties are weak there is no value in doing it. The alternatives is theories or in the case of greek myths there is a whole other article where it could go. There is no absolute standard, but if you pick an element like two people crossing a river and say that its a cutural reference to a movie, its going to be questioned in a tough way. To qualify there has to be something other than the repetition of a single event that is in common. Dharmatel4 10:55, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

Claire's Voice

Did anyone else notice that Claire's voice/accent sounds quite different in Charlie's flashback to right after the crash? (noticeable in the line "what gave it away" in response to Charlie asking if it was Claire's first plane crash.) Any ideas why? --Twelveax7 20:43, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

I don't know why it changed, but I definitely noticed it had changed. In the end it's probably nothing to get hung up over.The-room 22:09, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Sounded like she had a cold or something.--Buna9ra 09:37, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

I think after the crash she just lost her voice because of all the stress and screaming. ==Malion 15:15, 10 December 2007 (EST)

Charlie as Hero

Tariq, whom Sayid tortures, seems to imply his father Hassan Jarrah was a military hero, saying, "Sayid, you are a loyal soldier. The son of a great hero." (One of Them)

In Greatest Hits, Nadia -Sayid's sweetheart- says to Charlie, "You are a hero, sir. And don't let anyone ever tell you differently."

Not sure if there's any significance to this or not; perhaps "heroism" will emerge as a more recurring theme as Lost continues. --HypnoSynthesis 16:04, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

the naomi´s helicopter

we saw something (presumibly the helicopter of naomi) falling in the water, right in front of the cable.......this means near of the zone where is the station "looking glass" the island is not a great island, but it´s very suspicious this place.... there are some relation about the station, and the helicopter? is it in fact an helicopter existing? charlie said "this is how an helicopters suppouse to sound?" is the helicopter of naomi in the bottom of the sea? it must be near of the dharma station? --Fuzter lost 21:19, 21 May 2007 (PDT)

We saw the light of the helicopter far away in the sky over the water. Then the engine of the helicopter is heard slowing down in a way that indicates something was wrong with the Helicopter. It is strange that the Helicopter crashed there. Naomi also said while she was sick that she was not alone. The women in the station could possibly be from the Helicopter. I think there was a helicopter and that it was wrecked when it reached the Island. But I also think that Naomi is not telling the truth about who she is and why she is on the Island. Dharmatel4 21:41, 21 May 2007 (PDT)
Since the Looking Glass is supposedly jamming com transmissions, that would possible imply a powerful transmitter of it's own. Maybe that high power transmission messed with the electronics of the chopper, when it got close enough to the station, to cause a malfunction and ultimately, the crash. Stew Erickson 09:32, 22 May 2007 (PDT)

Trivia question seems like it could be answered quite easily

Why does Ben want to attack the camp a day earlier than planned? Answer: He surmised that Locke had stolen the tape-recorder that Juliet was using to send messages to him. He confronted/shot Locke and then turned his attention to moving the attack up one day in the likely event that the Lost crew was expecting them.

I'm not sure that Ben does want to go for the element of surprise thing because he told Alex who he is well aware is the Others resident 'lostie helper.' I think he knew she would go to Karl about it (who he knows is alive and on the island). Seems like another one of his grand manipulations, to actually set in place the counter-attack himself for whatever reason.--Laika 06:21, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

Agreed. The episode presents us with an obvious answer, and without any hints to the contrary, the question should be removed. I don't think the Unanswered Questions section is meant for random speculation about anything you can think of. Otherwise, we could be asking things like "Why does Jack want to lead the Losties away from the beach?". Additionally, with regards to the question "If someone other than Charlie performs the tasks from Desmond's flash, can the survivors still be rescued?": it doesn't seem like we'll find that out, given that Charlie now has performed those tasks. I think this should be removed as well. Jimbo the tubby 21:11, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

I believe that question about Charlie has been answered, actually. The question was why did Charlie have to go, and not someone else? Well it turned out that a musician was needed to enter the code, so if someone other than Charlie went, it could not work. --Brett 19:51, 28 May 2007 (PDT)
As I remember it, the woman in the station gave Charlie the exact code and Charlie was too dumb to remember it so she told him about the song and how it was programmed by a musician (during which time she could have slowly reiterated the code exactly instead of giving her life story). Therefore, if the Lostie that went to the station was not an idiot or simply had more common sense could have gotten the code directly isntead of in musical form. ALSO, and this is a bigger point than all of that rambling before, if someone other than Charlie went down there, the events could have played out differently. They might have handled the entire situation differently, and depending on the person gotten the entire code in full without musical explanation and deactivated it or else not have gotten the code at all and failed. -- macosx 03:50, 29 May 2007 (PDT)
I'm not sure that it could have played out differently. If someone else went, they still would've been captured, and Mikhail still would've came and tried to kill them.--Brett 08:16, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Swim Champion Remark

Could this have been a reference to The Poseidon Adventure? It's been a while since I've seen the original version, but I believe that there was a scene where Belle Rosen says she's some sort of swim champion and volunteers to swim through a passage but dies soon afterward, much as Charlie did. Maybe it's a stretch, but I thought I'd run it by you guys anyways. Thanks.--MightyRearranger 14:10, 31 May 2007 (PDT)

Goodwin

Somebody added that Goodwin is to been in Charlie's London-flashback. Do we have any evidence for that? --Hunter61 01:16, 13 January 2008 (PST)

I just went to watch it on abc.com. A guy walks by with the same type of look as Goodwin, but it's not him. I've removed the comment. -- Graft   talk   contributions  01:31, 13 January 2008 (PST)

The hotel in Helsinki

What do you think about the hotel Charlie and Liam are staying in? Is it (pretending to be) Hotel Palace, Scandic Marina Congress Center, Hotel Kämp or no special hotel at all? Because these are the hotels from where you can probably see the Helsinki Cathedral and the Southern Harbour, which I think can be seen from the window. Take a look at the area in Google Maps and share your thoughts. --ZeroOne 13:31, 17 January 2008 (PST)

Charlie can't swim??

In the episode where jack rescues "boone" from the water when he is attempting to rescue that woman, Charlie says "I don't swim". Any ideas why?? Matthew7785 11:45, 8 April 2008 (PDT)

Blooper about weights not a blooper

These were listed under the bloopers section:

   * Since the whole idea behind the weight belt was to speed Charlie's descent, it would have made more sense to make the belt much, much heavier.
   * Wrapping the belt around his hand instead of his waist was unwise as it prevented the use of one of his arms, therefore making him slower. 

Both are opinions, but not bloopers or continuity errors. After all, we don't know if either Desmond or Charlie are versed in diving, so neither are obligated to do a weighted dive properly.

Karl flashback

I realize that this episode is Charlie-centric, but I think it should be mentioned that there is one Karl flashback in the episode. This would be consistent with articles such as Dave (episode), which lists both Hurley's and Libby's flashbacks. Gefred7112 02:23, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

  • No 100%. The article for "Dave" should not say Libby, as was discussed on the talk page. Therefore it is that episode, and not the ones you have posted about, which is inconsistent.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  08:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
    • On second thought, ignore what I said about "Dave", I think there's a better way to handle that one which I've brought up here. However, I would still argue this episode doesn't contain a Karl flashback. There's a difference between a flashback that somebody happens to be in, vs a flashback told from somebody's perspective. Given that Karl isn't even in the entire flashback (part of it is Alex and Ben), I don't think you can argue that it's his flashback. Furthermore, we aren't just talking about the normal everyday definition of a flashback. On Lost, "flashback" means something very specific, ie: it's focused on a particular character; which the one in this episode isn't. So for those two reasons I think listing this episode as having a Karl-flashback would be a mistake.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  09:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
  • No Actually i don't think that this scene is a flashback. It's more likely a real time event which starts and finishes in the same episode. -- Paintbox 18:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
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