Talk: Good and bad people

Update[]

This article needs an update: teams are being made on island of good people(followed Jacob) and bad people(follow the man in black.) This could be a good article to keep track of who is on which "team". Felix.beaudry 17:33, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

First person narration[]

Hopefully fixed the redirects. But I suggest, rewriting the article in a more ordered and less "first-person"/subjective style. --aurora glacialis 07:16, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Tried to do so... Watch if now is better? --Raven66 07:25, 14 March 2006 (PST)

Is this article more about the Good or the Family? I don't get why there are references to the diary article about Henry Gale and the use of the word 'brother' in it. --skks 06:19, 17 March 2006 (PST)

correction?[]

In "Fire+Water" Sawyer tells Charlie "I'm not a good man."

Wasn't that in "The Long Con"?

Good & strong[]

What about the "The Other 48 Days", where Goodwin tells Ana-Lucia, that they "took only the good and the strong"?

What makes me wonder is why did they tried to take Mr. Eko, Mr. E. certainly wasn't good judging from his flashback, or maybe he reformed, he was strong though. Maybe whoever did the taking woke him up by accident, but didn't end up regretting it for long. --skks 17:13, 14 March 2006 (PST)

It's easy to think of the Others as a force of evil, but what if they really are as good as they say they are? After all the rest of the survivors are a band of murders, con-men, drug addicts, etc. Also contrast the treatment Claire got in Ethan's custody vs. the treatment Henry Gale gets in the 815 survivor's custody. The 815 survivors killed at least 5 others, and the Others have killed only 2 (by my count) survivors. Of course they tried to kill more, and they were allegedly going to kill Claire (no proof of this)

Don't you feel that what Goodwin says about good people being on the list and conversely those remaining being "bad" is a HUGE deal? No one seems to have latched on this as much as I have, so maybe I'm crazy. I think its a real hint toward the motives of "the others" and circulating theories of damnation and purgatory.

I feel strongly that if Good people want to help you, they'll invite you, rather than dragging you through the jungle while hanging your best friend from a tree to elude pursuit. Good people seldom need to throw bags over anyone's head. They don't separate children from their parents without a word of explanation. I have no doubts that the Others believe themselves to be good, but they are deluded. -BearDog 15:47, 15 December 2006 (PST)

moved from article[]

About Ethan: Obviously, he's lying. In the "Maternity Leave" Claire asks Ethan: - What happened to Charlie? - Charlie? Oh, he's fine. When we'd get away from camp, I let him go back.

If Ethan let Charlie go back, then who hung him on the tree?

I would rather say, that was a "retorical" question. I would like to point, that he's lying. --Raven66 13:03, 16 March 2006 (PST)

Doesn't really relate to the article. --skks 06:17, 17 March 2006 (PST)

Tips on Text searching[]

first of all, I changed the Sawyer subheader to "Miscellaneous" since I added examples from Christian, Sayid, and the Poor Man.
TIP: When searching for text in transcripts, such as "good man" or "good family", use Google's "site:" command on the transcripts page at lost-tv. For example to search for "good man" do this search

Santa 01:33, 13 May 2006 (PDT)

Minor Correction[]

"The writer of the Diary (on the official LOST website) refers to Henry Gale as "my brother". "

In the Lost diary on ABC.com, the author wasn't referring to Henry Gale. He thought his brother was in the hatch, but it turned out that he had imagined it all because he had suppressed the knowledge of his brother dying. It should also be noted that the creators of Lost don't contribute to the diary, and thus it is not canon. I propose taking down that section of the Theories. Levid37 22:09, 3 June 2006 (PDT)

Rename[]

Shouldn't we rename this to Good family to keep standards across the site? -- Plkrtn talk contribs email 04:04, 25 November 2006 (PST)

Agree I totally agree with renaming articles for caps.--LOCI!

Good and bad Why should the name of this article have the word "Family". Good Family was a rarely used label in the storyline, and the emphasis was always on "Good" or "Bad". Moreover, This article is linked now from the Recurring Themes template, which is almost present in every episode article as well as some Characters, under the name Good and bad, yet when you click the link you are taken to a Good family page ? We should really consider using more consistent naming, and use naming that is more relative to the article's topic. I strongly suggest to rename it, but to Good and bad instead. -- 15:24, 25 November 2006 (PST)

Agree - With Nomad-- Liz
Agree - With Nomad--EvilSmoke 05:41, 26 November 2006 (PST)
Agree - With Nomad. If not Good and Bad, should be renamed to Good people. --Aero *Zeppelin 15:37, 27 November 2006 (PST)
Agree - With Nomad. Caps-wise, I vote for "Good and bad". --Dagg 16:58, 27 November 2006 (PST)
Agree - I thought good family was a bad title from the start, Good and Bad ppl sounds much better --ZEKE?(>
Agree - I like either Good and bad or Good and bad people. Whatever the decision is, want something changed from "Good family" which is only mentioned once (by Ethan), and nowhere else in the script. --Pandora X 07:13, 10 December 2006 (PST)

Don't rename -

- Re: capitalization: "Good family" is probably incorrect, since the phrase is not a simple description of a "family" that is "good"-- for example the article "Rolex watch" does not have a capitalized second word. However this phrase is sort of a fan-based proper noun, as it is not really used in the show with the word "family."
- Re: "Good Family vs. Good and Bad" I disagree as well. "Good and bad" is a bit too generic, and I'm afraid it will invite the topic being expanded past the intended scope... good and bad luck, good and bad music, good and bad predictions by Desmond, good and bad actions of Sawyer, good and bad episodes, etc.
- The problem: There is no consistent exact wording used in the show. However fans have noted that certain characters call describe other characters (including themselves) with the adjectives Good and Bad. This theme has not officially been called by a particular name by the Lost creative team. Therefore we are stuck with a fan label, and fan labels are proper nouns with capital letters: for people (e.g., Sexy Blue Striped Shirt Girl), and theories (e.g. Shared Hallucination (theory), Last Humans (theory), etc.).
- Conclusion: Therefore I'm just fine calling it by our name (Good Family), and acknowledging it as a fan-based proper noun.

-- ^Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯^Talk01:34, 29 November 2006 (PST)

Rename- However "Good and bad people" is fine with me, it is less ambiguous than "Good and bad" -- ^Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯^Talk 00:06, 21 December 2006 (PST)
Every time I see a link to: 'Good Family' (especially capitalized), I think of something my friend's daughters wanted for Christmas: [1]. My vote is still for "Good and bad". Your point about "good and bad luck", etc is a good one though, so I'd also vote for "Good and bad people" if it was proposed. Or even "Judged as a good or bad person", or a simple word that could make for a good article: "Judgement" (It is time to confess. To be judged, Brother) --Dagg 07:19, 29 November 2006 (PST)

Good and bad people - I don't like "family" in the first place, it makes it sound like its heritage or something, which is not proven at all. "People" is a much better choice. Then in regards to the other issue, the article centres on the idea of "good" not bad, BUT the binary opposition is a key recurring theme and should be addressed correctly. Thus, this name option I think is the most appropriate --Nickb123 (Talk) 03:27, 30 November 2006 (PST)

Good and bad people / Good and bad - I strongly agree with Nick, and give my vote for Good and bad people as much as I do for Good and bad, in case it would be the agreed upon resolution. -- 03:44, 30 November 2006 (PST)

Also, if the problem here is possible confusion of the title Good and bad, and the possibility of generalizing of the name to everything that is referred to as good or bad, such as food for example, this problem can be easily solved by a simple and short disclaimer at the top of the article to explain the idea topic and what should be and shouldn't be added. The idea of why Good and bad might be a preferable title over Good and bad people is simplicity, which was the same reason behind the naming of the link from the Recurring Themes template. Adding longer names will never guarantee valid additions to articles, only frequent monitoring and corrections would, which I think is proven all over Lostpedia. On the other hand, snappier and simpler titles have many benefits, including eliminating the need for further shortening in links and being more attractive. -- 11:04, 2 December 2006 (PST)

Rename to Good and bad people for the reasons above. Cool Man 0912 18:13, 29 December 2006 (PST)
Agree --lewisg 05:59, 7 January 2007 (PST)
Rename to Good and bad people - The word "family" was used once and some form of "people"/"person"/"man"/"woman" has been used more than a dozen times. --Slugless 10:34, 7 January 2007 (PST)

Kate about Jack[]

In the article, it's referenced that Kate angrily tells Jack, "I'm sorry that I am not as perfect as you. I'm sorry that I'm not as good." ("What Kate Did").

This phrase has NOTHING to do with good/bad. "Good" means "perfect" and hasn't a moral meaning.

I think this phrase must be removed from this article. --Magioladitis 15:15, 22 January 2007 (PST)

I disagree. This was a dramatic moment on the show, and to this day, we don't know which mentions of "good" are colloquial, and which ones are in the "special" way that goes with the theme, so we list the ones which are descriptive of people. She really emphasizes this point when she says the word good, so I would argue that it goes very well with the thematic "good" in the show, though probably not the literal sort of "good" the Others use. --Pandora X 20:48, 19 February 2007 (PST)

Separating out when the Others use Good?[]

I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the mixing of good references.. when the Others use it (seems to be a specific meaning, for their research purposes), I think it should be something different from when the losties use it to refer to themselves (also good to record, but for thematic meaning). --Pandora X 20:48, 19 February 2007 (PST)

What do the Others mean by "Good People"?[]

According to Answers.com, the word "good" has at least 20 meanings. Is it possible that the Others are simply trying to figure out who would be good at being lab rats? --Schrodinger's Cat 18:41, 6 February 2007 (PST)

Great[]

I think that the references to people being "great" have a very different significance to the "good"/"bad" dichotomy and should be dealt with separately, especially as being "great" is beginning to look more and more like a bad thing. --Hprill 00:35, 23 February 2007 (PST)

Id say its a good idea for it to be here, for one thing there isnt enough information for a seperate article, and the appearances of "great" have been as apparently as good or bad, and whenever i hear it at least, it reminds me of the good or bad divide straight away. --lewisg 00:40, 23 February 2007 (PST)

I agree with Hprill. "Great" is being used primarily to denote achievement or possessing superior abilities. It is not used in a good-or-evil sense and is, therefore, out of place here.--Puddin Tame 20:51, 11 December 2008 (PST)

Heroes[]

I think there are enough references to consider a page or subsection for references to characters as "heroes." There's a lot of emphasis upon Charlie being a hero, Sayid's father is called a hero, Jack and Hurley are called heroes by Sawyer. Locke calls Boone a hero. Christian says Jack is not a hero. Charlie and Hurley have a debate about fictional superheroes. Can anyone spot any more? --HypnoSynthesis 06:24, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Lost[]

One of the first questions that came to my mind when I started to think about Lost was: "Who is 'lost' and why?" It seemed to me that from the first few episodes, it was clear "lost" had a double meaning. They were physically "lost" on an island, but clearly a lot of the Losties are also "lost souls", people who have lost things in their lives. Locke has lost the use of his legs, lost the woman he loved, lost his ability to go on adventures, lost a kidney, lost his (new age) community, lost his mother, lost his father (twice), etc. On the island he loses faith in his purpose and regains it. I can think of endless examples, and I'm sure a search of the transcripts will show the word "lost" and similar phrases being used in interesting ways by the cast. If there isn't one already, tucked away somewhere, couldn't we have a page about "lostness", for things/people that are "lost." --HypnoSynthesis 04:19, 26 May 2007 (PDT)

About Kate[]

When Richard Malkin was talking about the ones that were going to raise Aaron, he told Claire: "They're good people." So as far as we know Kate is raising Aron no? Shouldn't the name Richard Malkin be added to the list of people calling Kate "good"?

No, he was referring to the adoptive couple he had chosen for Claire. --Jackdavinci 07:30, 22 March 2008 (PDT)