Talk:Follow the Leader

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Follow the Leader is currently occupying the 15th and 16th spots on the navbar. The 17th spot needs to be removed because there are only two episodes left (unless the proposal to split finales is enacted). ShadowUltra 03:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the 15/16 problem. We'll wait until the split issue is resolved to act either way on the finale episodes. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  03:38, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. ShadowUltra 04:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

The press release is already out for the finale, and it is a part 1 & 2. I won't say the name though --LOST-The Cartographer 04:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Kris White in the latest video podcast calls "Follow the Leader" the "penultimate episode of the season" and correct me if I'm wrong, but penultimate means second to last. It suggests that the finale should be counted as one episode, but go down as hours 102 and 103.--Baker1000 00:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

It seemed to me he meant the episode of the week before the season finale. I believe the press release when it says part 1 & part 2. --LOST-The Cartographer 01:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Final Episode

I'm assuming that everyone knows the name of the last episode of season five. It seems funny that we have to wait for "follow the leader" to air to state such a simple fact. Does anyone else agree with me here?Seb456zig 11:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, policy. Don't want anyone getting spoiled. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  12:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, policy is policy. And not everyone knows the name of the episode. I will say though that the title becomes a lot less spoilerish after this latest episode. I don't think anyone can say we should hold it from the site until after it airs (like they were when it first came out) because it'll spoil you.--Baker1000 18:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Richard centric ?

• Another flashless episode ... don't you just love those ? [/sarcasm]. Anyway, while watching, I've noticed most (if not all) of the 77/07 transitions were close ups on Richard, and that, most of the time (again, if not all, can't double-check right now), he was in the following scene. Kind of like flashbacks transitions actually. Does this qualify the episode as Richard-centric ? Personally, I'd say yes, but what are your thoughts on the subject ? --LeoChris 01:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• I really don't know, I noticed that too, but the plot didn't revolve around Richard at all. Well, Richard to this episode was also kind of like Desmond to Jughead...
  • I'm setting up a tally below to determine consensus. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  02:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• I'm voting for Richard
• Definitely a Richard episode. I felt it was about his role as advisor; him just following other people wherever they told him to go, rather than being listened to. "Follow the Leader" IS the name of the episode. KingK.Rool 02:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I vote for Richard as well. Changed to None. See section below. --Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
• I would say it does not have centricity. InflatableBombshelter 02:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Definitely a Richard-centric episode. The guy was in almost every scene, even if the story didn't revolve purely around him. I can't think of anyone else that would even be close. You could even consider it flashing backwards, or forwards, depending upon your perspective, though Richard's timeline.--Jrtoastyman 03:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard-centric. Both the A- and B-stories (the C-story being Sawyer & Juliet) took place from his POV. Add in the close-up on him introducing the 2008 story and it's definitely a Richard ep. --Joshspazjosh 03:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• 100% Richard-centric, I believe his reluctance expressed in visiting Jacob sets up an arc that could be explained in the last episode and next season, when I presume he'll FINALLY be a regular. 01lander 03:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Sorry, gang. This episode isn't Richard-centric. It's Jack/Locke centric. Witness the title. Who are the leaders? What did Damon and Carlton say in the last podcast?  Robert K S   tell me  04:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • The episode's contribution to the big season story arc was to position Jack and Locke in their respective positions for the finale. This was done through Richard's POV in both time frames. Richard is, as Ben said, an "advisor" to both of the leaders, and we begin to see what role he plays on the Island. Completely Richard-centric. --Halcohol 05:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Centric tally

Who do you think the episode was centric to, if anyone? I think it should either be Locke, or None, and I'm leaning toward none. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  02:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Richard, see my reasoning above. --LeoChris 02:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• John Locke Centric! - john is obviously the leader, which the title refers to. --Frw22 02:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Comment - but Richard is following the leader, and not Locke. -- Lucas Benicá | Talk | Email | 02:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Richard. Reasoning above. KingK.Rool 02:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard It's not Locke guys, if anything it would be Jack. Richard was present in both timelines. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Endoplasmic Reticulum (talk • contribs) .
• None - what about none? We didn't really learn anything about Richard here.Luminifer 02:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None or Various - As much as I love Richard, he was not the focus of the episode just because he was in it a lot. ShadowUltra 02:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I am tentatively changing my vote to Richard-centric - Upon rewatching parts of the episode, many of the jumps between 1977 and 2007/2008 happen from Richard's perspective; i.e. the camera zooms on his face, then says "30 years earlier/later" while playing the whooosh noise, and shows Richard's face again. This has traditionally been how flashbacks occur on Lost, and was the rationale behind calling "This Place Is Death" Jin/Sun centric (because the jumps between time periods always zoomed in on Jin or Sun). ShadowUltra 02:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to point out the expository conversation about Richard between Ben and Sun that sets up the rest of the episode. ShadowUltra 03:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Richard - I wasn't really wanting to say that it was Richard centric, but the more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to lean toward this.--HaloOfTheSun 02:28, 7 May 200--
• Richard - Its Richard because the episode is told from his perspective i.e. telling locke he is going to die. Hanso815 02:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard flashes between him in past and present also Richard has never been the leader he has always been "following the leader" so it would seem the title is a refrence to what his job is. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  02:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None or Various - as someone who only started watching the show recently, and who followed along on Lostpedia as I watched, I would be pretty excited to see a "Richard-centric" episode coming up... only to be extremely disappointed on finishing the episode and knowing virtually nothing new about him. DocAlpertz 02:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None most definitely, I honestly don't see the case for it being an Alpert episode, much less a Locke or Jack episode. InflatableBombshelter 02:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard he was the focuses of the majority of the flashes. --THE REAL DEAL998 02:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None although Richard was in both times I think the major story lines were Jack's plan for the H-bomb and Locke solidifying his position as the Leader. Nothing was revealed about Richard to make this Richard-centric.
• I'm changing my vote to None. Centricity isn't about camera time, but character focus. The episode focused on Richard about as much as it did on any other character. So None. Michael Lucero * Talk * Contributions
• Richard- Definitely. He has always been portrayed as someone who had a connection with the island, an upper hand, if you will. We now find out that although he is the "advisor", no one heeds his advice and he is always "following the leader".Dhomison 03:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)DHomison
• Richard. See reasoning above.--Jrtoastyman 03:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - reasons above. This was a Richard-centric for sure. -- CTS  Talk   Contribs 03:36, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None because the press release didnt or barely mentioned or involved him and above reasons Four4elements 03:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - For sure. Even the title, "Follow the Leader", seems directed at Richard.
• There is hardly room for debate. The whole point of calling an episode "centric" to a certain character means that one character is the MC of the narrative--a story about that person is told alongside the main plot. Nobody fits the bill. If this was Richard-centric, where in the hell was the insight into his past? What have we learned about him as a person? Nothing, except that he put a ship in a bottle, and he still never ages. I vote for none.Jacobking 03:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • What did we learn about Sun and Jin in "This Place Is Death"? If anything, this debate shouldn't be about this episode's centricity, it should be about TPID's. ShadowUltra 03:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Please keep this on topic, ShadowUltra. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  03:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - He came across as the character we were watching through kind of, whether he was the most dynamic, or had the most action.01lander 03:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - Considering the degree of depth that was added to Richards character - and the amount of screen time he had (cmon it has to have been his most ever) I think this was meant to be Richard centric, its just not what everyone expected from a richard centered episode (MaxMoney37 04:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC))

Changing to Richard for now...please continue discussion. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  04:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• Richard centric, like This Place is Death being Sun/Jin centric, Richard had alot of character developement and it was focused on him. Buffyfan123 04:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Locke and Jack. The title is "Follow the Leader". Who are the leaders?  Robert K S   tell me  04:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • but at the same time, who is Following the Leader? --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 05:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None/Various - we learned nothing about Richard or his past. Yes, he's a prevalent character, but so are many of the characters. There are multiple scenes without Richard, like the Juliet/Sawyer stuff. Alexisfan07 7 May 2009
• None We should really stop trying to pigeon-hole every episode into centric this and centric that. Kajillion 05:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None Ditto Kajillion. There have been episodes previously that have no centricity. Spiral77 05:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard To be fair, Richard played a more important role in this ep than Desmond did in "Jughead." Marc604 05:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard Almost every scene (all except those at the Barracks) had to do with Richard. Many of them could even be considered flashbacks/flashforwards. --Crash815 Talk 05:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None - Of course there was a lot of Richard: HE EXISTS IN BOTH TIMES! But NONE of the the plots are Richard-CENTRIC! Even the story-lines he is in, I don't believe revolve around him. I think that the 2007 story-arc definitely revolves around Locke (but that doesn't make the episode as a WHOLE, Locke-centric). There are SEVERAL story-lines in this episode and some don't even INVOLVE Richard (Sawyer and Juliet/Miles and Chang). The term "centric" does not fit this episode. It focuses on several different characters during multiple story-arcs.--Mrmagic522 05:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Various on the Template, Sawyer, Jack, Locke, and Richard in the info-box. Reason being for Richard: stated above by those umpteen folks above me. Reason being for Sawyer, Jack, and Locke: They are the leaders being followed (allusions to the title: Miles, Hurly, and Jin following Sawyer's orders from "The Variable;" Richard (1977), Eloise, and Sayid following Jack; Richard (2008), Ben, et al folowing Locke) --  SacValleyDweller    talk    contribs   05:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - Same reason stated above, that flashes between 1977 and 2007 focus on him. The only counter-argument against Richard (not counting suggestions for other characters) seems to be that we didn't learn anything new about him, but that's not a necessary criteria for centricity. --Celebok 05:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • This isn't always the case, we didn't learn anything about Sun or Jin in "This PLace is Death". I would go as far to say that we don't really find out much about characters anymore, due to the rushed pace of the show. 01lander 06:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Come on. There's no focus on Richard. Richard doesn't motivate any of the actions in this episode. He just happens to appear in both timelines. Do an analysis of the transcript. I bet you'll find he has fewer lines than Jack, Locke, Sawyer, Kate, Ben, Eloise, and maybe even Radzinsky.  Robert K S   tell me  05:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Adding to my argument, there's no flashbacks. Yes, it's technically been done before with Sun and Jin, but they would NEVER have a character's first centric episode contain no flashbacks. Alexisfan07 7 May 2009
• None - There is no centric character this week. Locke, Richard, Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Eloise were all prominent. Just because Richard is a constant between 1977 and 2007 doesn't mean he's centric. I will concede however that the title of the episode refers to Locke.    Jabberwock    talk    contribs    email   - 06:03, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• CommentI disagree. The title refers to Richard (althought this does not make it Richard-centric). In both timelines, he is following the leader. (Jack & John) --Blueeagleislander 09:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Richard - Certainly more Richard in this episode than Jin in the supposedly Sun & Jin episode. Long lingering shots of Richard all through out the episode, including and especially during the transition between times. Sun asking who he is. Focus on his role in the Others. Plus various sources had reported this was supposed to be a Richard episode. --Jackdavinci 07:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Comment What... Jin appeared in half of the episode alone without any main characters, and we see the off-island story through Sun's POV so "This Place Is Death" is certainly a Sun and Jin-centric, though that's not the discussion. --Orhan94 09:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• Leaders (Richard, Locke, and Jack) - See title of episode. Actually, you could argue for Radzinsky, Horace, Pierre Chang, Sawyer, Eloise, and Widmore, too. Heavyccasey 07:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None As Heavyccasey said above, the episode showed a LOT of leaders (and a lot of followers too) in this episode. Yes, we got more Richard time in this episode than we ever have previously, but that doesn't mean it's Richard-centric. I think it was more focused on who was following whom, and the changes in leadership dynamics (Ben watching while Locke led the Others, Horace watching while Radzinsky took over, Ellie deciding to trust Jack, etc.). --Managerpants 10:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None Though Richard's face appeared a lot during time transfers, he's role in the episode was really minor, if compared to other episodes he appeared in, such as "Jughead" (BTW I'm not saying that "Jughead" is Richard-centric). As the title is "Follow the Leader" and it did revolve around leadership, I'd say, though it's speculative, that the episode centered around Locke (taking leadership over the Others), Eloise (leading the Others in '77), Sawyer (losing his leadership role among DHARMA folks) and Jack (questioning his leadership, Science vs. Faith/Fate vs. Free Will) --Orhan94 09:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None The title, the screen time, the presence in both storylines, and the closeups DO NOT reveal centricity. Centricity is about who the story CENTRES on. In this episode, the plot was not centred on one character. --Blueeagleislander 09:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None - Yes, there was a lot of Richard, but that doesn't maek it a Richard-centric episode. I never saw "The Lie" and "Jughead" as Hurley-centric and Desmond-centric (respectively) either, even though everyone seemed to think so...every single episode doesn't have to have a true "centric character." Kjodon7 11:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
• None/Various - Same thing for me, but it is for sure not a Richard centric. - TheAma1 11:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Henry Ian Cusick?

Can anyone confirm whether or not his name was removed from the credits for this episode? I don't recall seeing his name. Marc604 05:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• He was credited. Actors who play main characters are credited in every episode for the season, regardless of whether they appear (or even if their character is dead - Jeremy Davies was still credited this week). Rawr? 05:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • To be fair, Davies appeared this week in new footage :P Alexisfan07 5 May 2009
    • I already knew that Rawr, which is why it seemed odd when I missed spotting Cusick's name. Carry on. Marc604 06:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Blooper?

Did anyone else notice that when Jack swims through the rock tunnel, he goes under water at the far end of the pond and swims the whole distance of the pond before entering the tunnel? Shouldn't he have swam to the waterfall, started holding his breath and then go through the tunnel to minimize the chances of death?! I don't know if this is a blooper per se. More of a "goof".--Mrmagic522 05:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• A character doing something not perfect isn't a blooper. Kajillion 05:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree it is not a "blooper" at all. I just wanted to point this out. I just think it is laughably funny to watch him swim the entire distance of the pond under water. --Mrmagic522 06:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Recurring themes regarding who said what

In Act 3, wasn't it Juliet saying to Radzinsky that James and her were not bad people? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DharmaJam (talk • contribs) 2009-05-07T00:59:23.

RADZINSKY: You want me to stop? Then tell me what I want to know!
JULIET: [Voice breaks] Stuart, please. We have known each other for three years. We are not bad people! We are not here to hurt you!

The Tunnels

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this exchange take place when jack emerges from the under-water tunnel:

JACK: Where are we?
RICHARD: The tunnels.

WHAT ARE "THE TUNNELS"???--Mrmagic522 06:03, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

New location. They deserve an article their own, IMHO.  Robert K S   tell me  06:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems like they've been hinted at before on the Blast Door map -- and may have been how the Others left the Barracks in S3 en masse as if they disappeared into thin air. Tie in to Ben's secret room? Spiral77 06:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Previously it was implied that there were Dharma tunnels (based on the maps and game). I wonder if there are Dharma tunnels and Other tunnels, or just Other tunnels? --Jackdavinci 07:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)