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Reason for new page

This page includes the content I added to the flash sideways page before I realized its purpose - to describe the narrative technique. I moved my work to this new page because once we decide a name for the afterlife, we still need a page describing the flash sideways. --- Balk Of Fametalk 19:17, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

Rename to "LA X"

The discussion for this is here and here. I also have a blog with hundreds of comments about the subject. --- Balk Of Fametalk 19:19, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

  • Actually, I just realized the flash sideways world has a name: LA X. Darlton said that LA X (with the space with the space between a and x) doesn't refer to the airport. Everything in the flash sideways takes place in los Angeles. Semidelicious 16:46, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • You just blew my mind. --- Balk Of Fametalk 17:06, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting support That's by far the best term I've seen yet, I definitely vote for that. What do you think about using that for the character pages as well? --Jf518 17:21, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting support I'm thinking about it. If we name a section "On the Island"? Why not "LA X"? Or maybe "In LA X"?--- Balk Of Fametalk 17:40, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Pictogram voting support I would just use 'LA X'. Also, this article can only be named "LA X", if we rename LA X to LA X (Episode). or some sort of equivalent. Semidelicious 18:43, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
      • nevermind, i just caught that it's "LA X parts 1 & 2" Semidelicious 18:46, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Pictogram voting support Nice Idea! It's a term used by the creators, is religious neutral and stays with the creator intention for Season 6 leading up to the finale. Perfect! --Just Sayin' 20:05, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Just another note: This also addresses the concern about consistency in not using Flash forward/back and therefore some feel, Flash Sideway should not be used.--Just Sayin' 20:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry one more point to make - I like the idea of using the term "LA X" in the character overviews. However, I also feel there still needs to be an article for Flash Sideways. Within that article, it can be explained that the term "LA X" refers to the Flash Sideways environment reflecting the character experience. I don't necessarily think it needs to be a separate article for explanation of the Flash Sideways World. --Just Sayin' 19:08, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, there's a separate flash sideways article. --- Balk Of Fametalk 19:27, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting oppose "LA X" refers just to the flash-sideways Los Angeles, but we know the flash-sideways world extends beyond L.A., and even includes the Island, sunken though it may be. Besides, we should really avoiding assigning things the same names as episodes where that assignment is arbitrary and can be avoided.  Robert K S   tell me  20:18, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • The island does not exist in LA X. It sunk. Shannon's also away in her private Australia, but Boone draws her into LA X. --- Balk Of Fametalk 20:26, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • This is an interpretation on my part, but I took them showing the Island sunk in LA X as a metaphor for its lack of influence on the characters. --Jf518 01:30, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
      • I agree, but either way, it's not there. --- Balk Of Fametalk 01:34, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
        • Of course it's there, they showed it. It didn't need to exist at all, but they showed it as sunken.  Robert K S   tell me  03:44, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting oppose Flash sideways is the term used by the producers and we are documenting their production.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 00:05, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • They used that term to describe the flash sideways. They didn't use it to describe the afterlife. They haven't spoken about the afterlife post finale. But they gave us the term "LA X," and they said it referred to something besides the airport. --- Balk Of Fametalk 00:09, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • They used the term 'LA X' and flash sideways in the podcasts. Semidelicious 00:12, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Could someone perhaps create a new blog specifically for voting? No discussion on this new blog, just one comment per person containing their choice of rename. Does this make sense to anyone? --Ille qui nos omnes servabit 00:16, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • But we always vote on talk pages. --- Balk Of Fametalk 00:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • I'm speaking of one specifically for voting, without all the congestion. --Ille qui nos omnes servabit 00:25, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Pictogram voting oppose LA X Refers to another LA in an X world ... Why not just call it Universe X or X-World? Metroid101 00:20, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

    • We wouldn't call it Universe X for the same reason that DC titled a comic book Earth X rather than Universe X. We were only shown LA in "LA X", nowhere else. --Jf518 01:38, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • That simply wouldn't be canon. --Ille qui nos omnes servabit 00:21, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting neutral At this point I could learn to accept most anything reasonable that doesn't shout "THEY'RE ALL DEAD!!!", though I remain unpersuaded that Flash Sideways is not right. Also I admit I'm not going to go back and read hundreds of posts I've missed that debate this topic. I'm lazy and you've worn me down. Hatchbanger 01:00, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
Pictogram voting support One vote from me for "L.A.X!" Nice compromise Balk!HorribleEyes 17:45, June 14, 2010 (UTC)HorribleEyesHorribleEyes 17:45, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I suppose we need more input since we only got about 10 votes. What's the best way to get the word out for people to come here and vote? --Jf518 15:20, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

  • Pictogram voting oppose I would say that "LA X" refers to L.A. airport - and not this purgatorial timeline. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 00:40, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
  • Someone important should create a blog telling people to either vote there or come here and put their opinion towards some progress. --Pexxoum Ille qui nos omnes servabit 01:01, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Pictogram voting oppose I think we should rename it the Afterlife because, well, that's what it is. It's a world they created to live in After they died. Even if all the happenings are in LA, why name it after the airport LA X? To say that it stands for LA in world-X makes a strand of sense, but it's just conjecture, while the term Afterlife explains the concept much more clearly, it has been confirmed as such by Christian Shepherd, and it does not conflict with the name of any episodes. Even though the afterlife has been referred to as a flash-sideways, the producers would've given the game away if they had called it anything else before the season finale, and after all, it's not really a flash sideways, it's more of a flash to their new life after they died - the afterlife. Barjon 11:35, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Pictogram voting oppose Afterlife. We don't call the flashbacks "Flashback World". And yes, I understand that was all the SAME world, but Flash sideways world was only used because we didn't have any friggin clue it was the afterlife. So let's use Afterlife! (Kdc2 22:38, June 27, 2010 (UTC))

Pictogram voting comment I now withdraw my support for renaming the article to "Afterlife". The afterlife is more than the flash sideways. The whispers are the afterlife. Sayid coming back to life is the afterlife. Eko moving on with Yemi is the afterlife. The flash sideways are the afterlife - but they're not ALL of the afterlife. Renaming this article to "afterlife" is life renaming "survivors" to "characters". --- Balk Of Fametalk 07:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

How to have a successful vote

Ok, so we got a good debate on what to call this page going a couple weeks ago, but we only got about 15 total votes on the matter. What's the best way to get a larger vote going on? In my opinion, we should have a final vote between "Afterlife" or "LA X" (these seem to be the two most popular options) with a third "write-in" option. So, how can we get people to Rock the Vote? --Jf518 23:33, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

  • You can't get a good vote on this page b/c no one knows where to look b/c there about 40-45 pages on Lostpedia about flashsideways...LEHLegacy 13:56, June 30, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
    • It's funny you replied today, I kinda gave up and had decided to make a blog post linking to here, or possibly voting on the blog post itself. There's no reason to continue debating, I think all point have been given in various blogs or on this page. Well, it's decided. Look for a blog post later if you want to vote; this is an important page on the site and it should have a definite name. --Jf518 15:10, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
      • Make it an instant run-off vote. I, for instance, support "LA X" above, but I prefer "afterlife". --- Balk Of Fametalk 16:42, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
        • Just made the blog. I put an arbitrary timer on it of one week, and I'll tally them and post it, then change the page. hooray progress! --Jf518 19:02, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Merge

  • Pictogram voting oppose Flash sideways covers the technique. It's in the storyline nav-box as a literary technique. We also have articles on flashbacks and flash forwards. The flash sideways page should provide similar content to those articles. It needn't describe the afterlife any more than the flashbacks page should summarize characters' pre-crash lives. --- Balk Of Fametalk 20:31, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Agree. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 23:46, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
    • Elaborate Please! Metroid101 00:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
      • They're the same thing, the Flash sideways and the Flash sideways world. If we want to cover the technique, we can have the article "Flash sideways (narrative technique)", which would only cover the technique. But both articles - "Flash sideways" and "Flash sideways world" cover almost the same thing. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 00:38, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
        • You admit then that they're different. A location/realm/period and a narrative technique. We needn't name the latter page "Flash sideways (narrative technique)" because flash sideways is a narrative technique - it's the other page whose name we don't know. --- Balk Of Fametalk 16:46, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting oppose read BalkOfFame Metroid101 00:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Here's my feeling on this. The term "flash sideways" was used by the producers to refer both to the narrative technique and to the "world" within which its events were set. I believe if you go back and listen to the podcasts or watch/read the various interviews Darlton gave during Season 6 you will hear Damon ask questions to the effect of, "What is the flash sideways? That is the question the viewers should be asking themselves, and the answer to that question is the one that the writers are obliged to answer by the end of the season." While I appreciate BalkOfFame's concern for symmetry with respect to the flashback and flash-forward articles, the concern for symmetry in this case is specious as it doesn't need to hold; the flash sideways was a fundamentally different animal since it was not, in fact, truly a flash to a parallel/alternate timeline but was actually a flash-forward. That said, I can appreciate differing perspectives on this and don't have any strong feelings. I just think it wouldn't be inappropriate to merge the articles and deal with the narrative technique first and with the reality of the flash sideways and its "world" second in the same article, which would greatly simplify linking and would allow us to use the one simple term flash sideways for all references to the thing everywhere in the encyclopedia.  Robert K S   tell me  15:58, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
    • Do they ever say "What is the flash sideways"? I listened to their post-"LA X, Parts 1 & 2" podcast, and they refer to "these flash sideways" and "What's up with the flash sideways", and they ask why characters in flash sideways appear so different from in flashbacks. Every time I hear them say the word, you would replace it with "flashbacks" and it's make sense. They elsewhere describe flash sideways as their new "thing" for the season, following flashbacks and flash forwards. If this is true, we can't say "the characters made the flash sideways after they died to meet" etc. The characters made... something, and we're seeing it through flash sideways. --- Balk Of Fametalk 17:45, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Mixed: I do agree the Flash Sideways is somewhat different from a Flash forward/back in that they are timelines, and a Flash Sideways is not. Therefore, it may not neccesarily equate in documentation of timelines. However, they are similar in telling the experience of the characters as a narrative technique. Another difference is the Flash Sideways is actually a term created by the writers/producers of the show. I know this may seem like a weak argument, however, it is a distinguishing difference and in my pov, indictates the need for an article articulating it's creation. In the spirit of compromise, would sub-sections within the article help. For instance. "Creation" this sub-section could articulate why the creators felt the need to create the term Flash Sideways. "As a Narrative Technique" this sub-section could illustrate the similarities and differences between Flash Sideways and the Flash forward/back. "As a "World" or we may want to use "As LA X" this sub-section could dually explain the use of LA X in the character overviews and maintains that consistency. What do you think? --Just Sayin' 17:21, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support Even though it is taking a different approach/analysis to the flash sideways, the two separate articles will probably confuse people who come to Lostpedia to find information on the flash sideways. --  Blackout0189    talk    contribs    email   22:41, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting oppose I think the flash sideways page should contain only information about the narrative technique. This page should elaborate more on the events that happen in this world. Also a bit of capitalisation on this page wouldn't hurt. --Dharmafolk 17:40, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting support LA X or Afterlife would work. Sideways world sounds too "alt reality" for me. LEHLegacy 13:06, August 23, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
  • Pictogram voting oppose The difference between the two articles is big. Don't merge. I also don't think we should rename. "LA X" is too vague. and could mean many other things, and Afterlife isn't very accurate either. The realm they go to after "moving on" may b the afterlife, we don't know for sure. No merge. No rename. --  Blackout0189    talk    contribs    email   04:29, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting oppose Agree with Blackout0189, No Merge. No rename.--Just Sayin' JSTalk LBC LBCTalk eMail 15:25, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Images Added

There are a few images added to the article. What do you think, should more be added or are the ones added sufficient?

--Just Sayin' JSTalk LBC LBCTalk eMail 14:53, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Passage of time paragraph

You describe, incorrectly, that the passage of time is not normal in the FST and you link it to an article that doesn't depict the timeline in this non-linear passage. I suggest either rewriting this paragraph or removing the link to FST Timeline article.LEHLegacy 18:32, August 30, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy

Agree (and here we go again). "There's no now here" doesn't mean "time's no normal here". It could mean that, since they'll died in different times, "now" doesn't exist here, since some lived 20 more years than other people that died, or others lived 50 more years. The passage of time is apparently normal. The inconsistence of the timeline is regarded by me as a continuity mistake, that's all (not the first time in Lost). --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 15:27, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
Here we go again all right. I've removed the link to the timeline page until we clean that up. But the paragraph now contains facts that you can't refute unless you call them all continuity errors -- errors this large existing for, quite literally, the first time in Lost. Does anyone other than three of us want to chime in? We argued this in detail here before apparently losing interest. --- Balk Of Fametalk 17:36, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
Good to hear from both of you again, haha. I wouldn't call it losing interest just more like I think we were all exhausted with everything we had to say. In the time that's passed I've actually gone the exact same way James has in that it's a continuity error instead of some fancy week later or mystical timeline because as we all know LOST is not perfect. Try reconciling the island locations (that's what I've been doing since we last spoke); makes this look like kindergarten addition. LEHLegacy 18:11, August 31, 2010 (UTC)LEHLegacy
Right, hehe, I never lost interest, but I was just tired. Ok, I'll say this one more time. Everyone experienced a week before finding each other after Oceanic 815, except for Sun and Jin, who apparently just were a day together. Since they're the only problem, I call that a continuity problem. You already know my interpretation for Christian's words, which, for me, don't mean that the passage of time is different for each person in the Flash sideways world. Really, give me real-perfect-evidence that the passage of time is different, and then keep that section. If we can't find that evidence, we should remove the section, because it sounds as if someone just invented that. -Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 19:49, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
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