Talk: Eloise Hawking

Matrix

• Where does the name Hawking comes from? It is not explicitly mentioned, does she have a name card or what?
• The credits I guess --Princess Dharma (banned) 07:21, 18 February 2007 (PST)
• Didn't she totally remind you The Oracle from The Matrix trilogy? --PandoraX 22:22, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Actually, she reminded me of Mrs. Potts, from Beauty and the Beast.--Ex-Pope Cardinal Richard Corey 22:23, 14 February 2007 (PST)

Heh, I was just thinking of the one scene where the Oracle sits down on a bench with Neo and explains how the universe works. --PandoraX 22:31, 14 February 2007 (PST)

The whole episode reminded me of The Matrix. It had that feeling all over it. Polleke 08:43, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Reminded me more of Slaughterhouse Five with Desmond as Billy Pilgrim--Tricksterson 08:25, 16 February 2007 (PST)

• Link to Stephen Hawking? -- ^Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  ^Talk  20:21, 15 February 2007 (PST)
  • "Is a temporal policeman in place to make sure every person gets to the island that is supposed to."Damon Lindelof from the Lost season 3 DVD extra features. Where would be best to place this fact?CastorPollock 17:30, 10 February 2008 (PST)

The Ouroborous Pin

Does anyone think that there's significance to that fact that the ouroborous in Ms. Hawking's pin isn't eating its tail? This might imply that although there is a "vicious cycle", there is a point that someone might be able to break free, as the circle wouldn't be totally complete. Your thoughts? -PsychoYoshi 19:13, 26 February 2007 (PST)

Its hard to tell. The image of the Ouroborous does not necessarly have to show the eating of the tail. There are depictions that show it chasing the tail but it always means the same thing. I really dont think the term "vicious cycle" is accurate. One way to look at the symbol means is that you can't have the gain of life without paying the price of death. Its a closed system and if you break it on side (death), there are consequences on the other (life).

There is an opposing symbol to an Oroborous. Its a snake hung around a cross. If it ever showed up, it would symbolize "the fixation of the volatile", life in suspension or breaking the cycle represented by the Ouroborous.

The question of "is there any way out?" is one of the basic ones the series is about. From whats been revealed so far, the answer is that if you try the universe will start fighting back to self-correct in two instances: 1) Preserving life (as in keeping Desmond on track to go to the island) and 2) Preserving death (as in that if people are supposed to die, they don't unfairly cheat it). The question left after that is the issue of free will vs. fate and how much flexability there is in the system.

There is also Buddhism involved in all this. Samsara would be close to the Ouroborus and Nirvana would be the result of breaking the cycle. But the things to keep in mind is that Nirvana requires a final death (parinirvana) and would also involve breaking free of all worldly attachments. In other words, if you do break free, you don't get to stay in the world anymore. Dharmatel4 12:31, 7 March 2007 (PST)

The two mentioning of the pin in both the main article and the trivia part is redundant.Ben Ito Ite 13:04, 24 March 2008 (PDT)

observations

There is a couple things about what she said that should be noted:

• She says "every single one of us is dead". Though there is no way to know what she is, she would seem to be suggesting that she is human or at least shares the fate of all humans.

• She seems to carefully list out specific events to Desmond that must happen. It seems to be implied that he has a degree of free will as long as he does not disrupt particular events. It also casts a degree of doubt on her other statements about "paths" and the universe course-correction. If things were as she said, it would be expected that his path to the island would have been restored one way or the other by a "course correction". She talks in terms of absolute fate but acts as if he has free will and must be convinced.

• The only constant seems to be that Death cannot be avoided in the long term by knowledge of future events. Dharmatel4 13:24, 7 March 2007 (PST)

• The name ELOISE - is an acronym for the European Land Ocean Interaction Studies, which is in line with her role in the show. Warmac 17:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, but this seems really tenuous, so I removed it from the main page. Not to sound like an ass, but how does her role line up to Europe? If there is a consensus to put it back then fine, but I don't see it... --Chocky 18:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
  • Concur. Leave it here.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:53, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Picture w/ Brother Campbell

It appears that she's wearing the exact same outfit and same hair style as when she meets Desmond a couple of years later. --BiggSteve777 06:12, 19 April 2007 (PDT)

Well, that's probably b/c her photo seems to have been taken from a still from that episode and then poorly Photoshopped in w/ Bro. Campbell in front of the monastery! My word, considering how obsessive we fans are, you'd think they'd have done better with that...I guess they weren't able to get the two actors together easily enough for a photo. But really, at least they could have tried to even out the lighting... Hazel 22:02, 26 April 2007 (PDT)

It very well could have been purposeful, because it was soooo bad I can't see how a prop person would let it fly if it wasn't supposed to look fake. - Next362 10:53, 30 April 2007 (PDT)

i believe it was CLEARLY purposeful. my 13 yr old son does better photoshops than that in his sleep, and my wife actually commented on it during the show, and she never notices crap like that. --Monsto 16:51, 10 May 2007 (PDT)

Ms. Hawking's Computer

The computer seen in "Jughead" is a late 70s Apple II or II+, the same model seen in Swan/Pearl, not the 80's Apple III as stated in th article. Though it has a logo reading "Monitor ///", Apple's "Monitor III" was most often sold with the Apple II/II+, produced by the millions, while relatively few Apple III's were ever sold. Note the external Disk II floppy drives stacked beside Ms. Hawking's computer. The Apple III had a differently shaped console (reminiscent of a Commodore PET) with a *built-in* floppy drive. The two can hardly be confused. Orphic.Mysteries 15:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Answered "Unanswered" Questions

Inre: "If the universe course-corrects by itself, why is she so concerned about Desmond changing things?" do we not now know as of ("The Lie") the answer to this question? Isn't the answer that, according to Daniel Faraday's knowledge and actions, that Desmond is in fact the only one who is capable of changing the past? Faraday's interaction with Desmond indicates that Desmond is "special," perhaps unique in this specific manner. Hence, if Ms. Hawking strictly believes that the universe "course-corrects" itself, then as a time cop, she does not want Desmond to use his power to change the past, present, or future (the one and only "string" as Faraday used the metaphor). Hawking specifically has to keep an eye on Desmond to ensure that things go exactly how she wants them to go (or believes they should go).

In short, Desmond is capable of defying this universal law of physics (somehow); he alone has the capability to affect the time stream. We know that Daniel Faraday knows this and is utilizing it as a tool. Faraday also is hiding this knowledge from everyone so far. Therefore Desmond is a threat to Hawking, so she actively pulls him aside, changing history slightly in order to put Desmond back in line in ("Flashes Before Your Eyes") as Desmond was about to change his own future via proposing to Penny. Desmond is her biggest threat, perhaps her only threat.

So now that that question is answered, it does raise other questions. I propose that the question is removed and replaced with the new questions that arise from this, such as "How does Ms. Hawking know that Desmond alone is capable of changing history, altering the timeline?"--Japhy Ryder 05:51, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Honorific

Is the lady a "Ms." or a "Mrs."? "Ms." is used almost everywhere, except in a quote attributed to Damon Lindelof, where he used "Mrs."--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 16:59, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

-- Deleted a comment that contained a spoiler -- ObiDanKenobi5 00:15, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Rename

• Rename: to Eloise Hawking since thats what the notes said in tonight's replay of The Lie.--Mistertrouble189 02:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
• Don't Rename.....yet: I'm sure Lostpedia has had this discussion many times before, but aren't those notes considered "non-canon"? At any rate, unless it can be confirmed from a reliable source, we should put off renaming it for the time being. --Countdown 03:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
• It can be confirmed, but that's from a press release for 5x05 i think, so it's a spoiler. Crash815 03:33, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
• I would revert it. The cannonicity of the enhanced notes is dubious.--Pennyj 01:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
• Doesn't Widmore call her "El" ? --Xbenlinusx 04:35, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I don't think that the enhanced notes would put a blatantly incorrect and fabricated name in. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  04:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

You're assuming she's the same person in the others camp? I don't recall Hawkings and Widmore meeting. that would be a theory. --CharlieReborn 08:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree this isn't canon. Either way, the article is very confusing because there is no information of why she's suddenly named Eloise. --CharlieReborn 08:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Then I'll put it in the trivia section.--Baker1000 11:12, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I've moved it all back. LP:C clearly states that Enhanced episodes aren't canon unless Damon and Carlton back em up. --Plkrtn 11:25, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

• I know what the LP:C says, but disregarding information given in the episode (the most cannon source of all) seems silly. Also some enhanced episode have included extended scenes. Are the extended scenes considered non-cannon as compared to their original? I want accuracy too, but are we really going to second guess everything that isn't exactly laid out as 2+2=4? --Lanpesci 11:49, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

It isn't canon until its said on the show. The enahnced episodes aren't the most canon source of all, as the episodes are created by a third party company. Not D&C. Anything in those episodes is only considered canon (after being aired) after D&C comment on it in someway to confirm it. Till then, its "Trivia". I don't remember any enhanced episode having any extended scenes. Could you link me to evidence please? --Plkrtn 11:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I have to disagree. According to Darlton, the aired episodes are absolutley cannon. It seems to me we are saying part of an episode is cannon, but part isn't. Where is the information that the writing in the pop-ups is done by a third-party? I have only seen that asserted on this Wiki and Darlton has talked about crafting the Enhanced Episodes in thier podcasts. To answer specifically, the Season 4 finale scene where the Oceanic 6 are at the press conference was an extended scene in the Enhanced version. A question to Hurly was removed, and new questions to Jack are given. This is when Jack ID's the 3 people who survived the plane crash, but died later (Boone, Libby, Charlie). The extra information is included on the page for There's No Place Like Home, Part 1. While it's noted that the info was included later, it still appears in the body of the article as fact, not "trivia." In fact I think the name Mrs. Hawking comes from a podcast or an enhanced episode originally anyway. SO we will accept her last name as cannon, but not her first? --Lanpesci 12:01, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that the extended scenes are in the DVD version of the episode, therefore they can be considered canon.--Baker1000 12:10, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

• Can people discuss this stuff BEFORE making the changes? I for one do not want to have spoilers shoved in my face like this - it wasn't in the episode so stop ruining the show for me. Integrated (User / Talk) 11:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
• If the first name is a spoiler, shouldn't the last name of Hawking be removed too? This was also info given out in a podcast and in an enhanced episode, but never said on the show. We seem to have a double standard here. --Lanpesci 01:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  • The actor was credited as "Ms. Hawking" for "Flashes Before Your Eyes.".--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 21:32, 29 January 2009
    • Good point - I think information in an enhanced pop up can be considered as canon as information gleamed from credits. So "Eloise" (as first name and as rat maze connection) should be considered as already aired and not a spoiler, but any possible connection to Ellie is still just theory fodder at this point. --Jackdavinci 03:17, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Agree. Ellie is, I guess, a diminutive of Eloise and it's fun to guess, but we need to put the breaks on that one. BTW, why does the young Ellie recognize Daniel? Stay tuned!--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

• Do you mean when she says "You couldn't stay away could you?" I think she thought he was one of the US military guys. I think.--Mistertrouble189 04:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

• • • Peacetime Army, long hair, beard, dirty white shirt, necktie: I don't think she thought he was military.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
• If this name is so spoilerish, you should seriously consider changing it on the disambiguation page too, because someone searching for "Hawking" would see the full name long before reading the spoiler warning on this page. --COeins 23:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Fixed. ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 13:16, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
• I think this is foolish. I agree with Sam that that the enhanced notes would not put a blatantly incorrect name in. People come to this wiki to get a complete view of every part of the show in detail. if the enhanced notes have already aired, than I feel they should be included. That's something that I missed, that I would want to come to this wiki to find out. my $.02 --KirkaFordis Rex 00:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
• AGREED change the name. If you got her last name from the credits you can get her first name from the enhanced experience.--Jeremy3681 00:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
• I'd just like to add two points here - firsrly, why is her name being Eloise considered a spoiler? That doesn't in any way link her to Ellie from "Jughead." That's like saying there is a connection between every Tom that's ever been on the show (and there's been a few). And secondly, why would D&C commition enhanced episodes if they were to give out un-canonical information. And I'm guessing whoever wrote the enhanced captions got their information from somewhere. Also, in addition, if the information has been publically released at thus point can we not assume is information that won't spoil the plotline in the future. I hardly think anyone on a television prgramme would allow the release of such matierial if it really was so important. --Jamie-0408 16:15, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Her name being Eloise doesn't link her to the Ellie on the Island, it links her to being Daniel Faraday's mother. A plot twist I'm sure many of us has seen coming already but some may not want complete confirmation by reading her name is Eloise.--Baker1000 17:06, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
• The trivia sections needs to be updated to include a second mention of her name as Eloise, as per the enhanced episode of "Jughead".--Johnnyd1980 22:01, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• This shouldn't still be considered a spoiler if it's in two enhanced episodes (I'm sure the producers wouldn't allow false infomation to be published) however I guess Ms. Hawking can be renamed back to Eloise when 5x05 airs since that's what the 5x05 press release is crediting her as.--Mistertrouble189 03:05, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Locked

Due to the potential spoiler and non-canon content repeatedly being added to the maain article, I've locked it for now, and added a spoiler tag and a warning due to the content in the Trivia section, which is permissable. In the meantime, any changed should be highlighted on this talk page. --Plkrtn 19:37, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Good work Integrated (User / Talk) 06:02, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

• If XXXXXX is a spoiler, shouldn't there be a warning on this talk page as well, as it's being discussed above? ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 11:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

• The Character Infobox has to be the first thing on the page script for the Character Appearances code to work, FYI.    CANADA DRY    talk    contribs    email   17:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• Rename back to Eloise Hawking, remove spoiler alerts, unlock.--Mistertrouble189 03:01, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Unanswered questions

I removed "Does her son Daniel Faraday know she is the "temporal policeman"?" because it is a bit leading, plus Faraday obviously knew she had some kind of special knowledge/ability, that's why he told Desmond to find her specifically.. Integrated (User / Talk) 11:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Timeline of killing Daniel

When young Ellie killed her son Daniel in 1977, had she yet known that she had a son? Was Daniel born yet? Do we know this?

• We can only assume that baby Daniel never lived on the Island, because adult Daniel's nose didn't bleed during the time shifts. Marc604 22:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
  • We can't assume that. Maybe he just didn't spend very long on the Island. Eloise says to Charles that she had to send her son back to the Island. That implies that he has been there before. Also, it would make sense that Daniel was born, or at least conceived on the Island as Charles and Eloise were both there. I don't think they would have met up off the Island between Eloise leaving and Widmore being banished.--Baker1000 23:01, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
    • We can assume he was there for less time than Miles, at least. Which is what, three months? Eloise could have meant that his earlier time on the island was his adult time traveling self, in which case he might have been born off island. --Jackdavinci 17:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
      • It's funny you should say Miles was there for three months. Miles actually got a nosebleed before Juliet did, so he apparently spent longer on the island than her which is more than 3 years. It just doesn't add up why Miles would get a nosebleed before Juliet if he only spent 3 months on the Island. It could be possible that Miles stays behind in 1977 while Juliet either leaves the Island or goes back to the present somehow, assuming time spent as an adult in the past (although their future) contributes to exposure. Then again, it could just be a continuity error.--Baker1000 18:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
        • Miles was on the island before Juliet. He is Dr. Chang's son and was on the island as a baby.--LostConstant 03:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
    • It seems pretty clear that Daniel was a fetus while he was on the island. --Gibbeynator 03:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Jurassic Park?

The outfit young Ellie is wearing in 1977 is extremely reminiscent of the outfit Dr. Ellie Sadler wears throughout the movie. It's also not the first time they've alluded to it in the show (Expose). Is this enough for an intentional reference or am I grasping at straws?Illyrias Acolyte 21:00, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Pregnancy UQ

Okay. We should add to the unanswered questions: "Who was she pregnant with in 1977?" because, while we assume it's Daniel, there's a bit of evidence against that. For example, going strictly by their use of actors/actresses for Daniel and Eloise... well, here it is (note that in this "timeline" I'm assuming Eloise is pregnant with Daniel in 1977):

• 1978: Daniel is born. Eloise would be 41-years-old and played by Alice Evans.
• 1988: Scene from "The Variable". Daniel is 10-years-old and it played by Spencer Allyn. Eloise is 51-years-old and played by Alice Evans.
• 1994: Daniel graduates from Oxford, as seen in "The Variable". Daniel is 16-years-old and is played by Jeremy Davies. Eloise is 57-years-old and is played by Fionnula Flanagan.

--Crash815 Talk 00:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• We have no evidence that the baby is Daniel, and if it IS, then, as pointed out above, there's probably a timeline blooper involved, so the question makes sense. --LeoChris 01:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
• Let's deal with facts on the character and episode pages.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 01:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Can someone please do something? I keep adding the question again and again but people keep removing it. Should I contact a SysOps? --Crash815 Talk 18:47, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
  • I dropped a note on the user's talk page. If he does it again, contact a sysop. Some people just don't think they have to explain their actions to the rest of us.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 19:14, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Exactly! And maybe they're completely right and it is Daniel, but until we know for sure, we need to leave the question out there. --Crash815 Talk 19:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
• Well we all know it is Daniel.. I mean if it isn't Daniel then he has yet to be born still and thus would be even younger when graduates in 1996? Unless you think Daniel was already born? --Integrated (User / Talk) 17:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Until we know Penny's parentage, we don't "know" that Ellie is pregnant with Daniel. Probably, yes; certainly, no.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
• People keep removing it because most likely it is an obvious answer, yes on Penny's page there is an Unanswered Question of who her mother is, but that doesnt really mean anything. There are many other characters who we don't know their parents, might as well put unanswered questions on their pages on who their parents are. Its more obvious that it is Daniel because We learn just an episode before that Charles Widmore is the father of Daniel. Eloise's age when Daniel is born can't be evidence that it might not be him, people give birth to children at old ages, and plus since she is some sort of temporal policeman, then it still can kind of debunk that information. --BadBot23 08:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
  • "Obvious" doesn't count. We're writing an encyclopedia. If you or I can't write "Ellie was pregnant with Daniel" and cite a canon source then the answer to the question is unknown.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
    • Then probably this question is never going to be officially answered, I'm sure the writers would assume we would get it, but looks like they failed and they need to specifically write the part where we get the exact date of birth for both Daniel and Penelope. This isn't even in the same ballpark of Unanswered Questions such as "What is the smoke monster?". Anyway that's my input.--BadBot23 08:56. 18 June 2009 (UTC)
      • Whether we find out or not, it's still an unanswered question. Perhaps this would be a good question for someone who is going to comic con to ask Darlton. --Crash815 Talk 21:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
        • I'm sure if you asked them that they would reply "Go watch 'The Variable'", I can agree that there is a possibility that she is pregnant with Penny, but as there is more information supporting that little Daniel is in there, and that is why I'm on that side. It just seems that a lot of people are doubting the stronger evidence. It also seems that this is one of those really unimportant questions that opens the door to a lot of silly questions that can be posted as well, like as said before "Who is Penny's mother?"...yes its a question, but it's really not that important. As most of my replies are stating, this question is just so obvious that it's silly for it to be this debated on, in short.."If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, what is it?"--BadBot23 14:15, 18 June 2009
          • I agree that there's lots of evidence to say it's Daniel, but there's alot of evidence to say it's not too. So, until we have a concrete answer, it's still an unanswered question. As this is an encylcopedia, we should leave the question there, because encyclopedias deal with fact, not assumptions. --Crash815 Talk 23:57, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
            • Are we trying to get this tabbed really far out? Yes, thanks for agreeing, but also what evidence points it to not being him? Also I'm not saying that this is answered, lets add it to the main page. It seems, as said before, that this question will probably not be answered as everyone who doubts the logical choice may want it to be. The writers may have the situation where the audience sees Daniel being born shortly after we left off at the end of season 5, and they most likely will assume we knew it was him all along. It's hard to sound like a broken record, but when the writers reveal that Widmore is his father and then the following episodes we learn Eloise is pregnant, it would be unlikely that it would not be Daniel, the writers wouldn't make it anyone else, they wouldn't throw that curve ball at the audience. So again, NOT saying ti is answered and should be added to the main article, but saying that it's RIDICULOUS to have it here, it's unworthy and unimportant.--BadBot23 21:34, 18 June 2009
• There is nothing that says an unanswered question has to be one that we expect to have answered. D & C have already told us that they will not have the time to answer everything. When we get to the end of the line, UAQs will serve as documentation of issues raised but unresolved. Adding a tab with every new entry is not required, btw.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
  • Sorry. Got a little carried away with the tabs. lol. --Crash815 Talk 13:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
• I'm pretty sure, and my point is, that it would be safe to assume, that if and when the writers don't answer the question

by the end of the show, we can all be sure that it is Daniel. The writers wouldnt set us up to think otherwise. It's too apparent for them to throw us for a loop. But you know what it can be, that might make us both happy? Penny and Daniel are twins, eh? Eh? --BadBot23 05:52, 21 June 2009

• That'd be kinda cool if they were twins. lol. Anyway, I'd say let's keep the question on there for now and if they don't tell us who she's pregnant with before the end of Season 6, we'll remove the question. How does that sound? --Crash815 Talk 14:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
• Heh I'm really kind of pulling for the twins thing now! I think its the choice not many people would think, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this theory of the pregnancy.--BadRobot23 01:49, 22 June 2009

Unanswered Question:Her powers

Presumably it's not been established how/when she gained the ability to know the future/what's supposed to happen? As far as I saw, when she was on the island she didn't have these powers. Should this be an unanswered q? paulbrock 01:18, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

• I think it'd be safe to presume her knowledge of the future comes from her meeting time travellers in the past. I know that doesn't fully explain how she knew about Desmond but it's best explanation for the time being --Integrated (User / Talk) 17:09, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

A thought

Might it be added to the character's trivia that she has been played by 3 different actresses all within the 'present' timeline (IE not flashbacks or flashforwards), which I believe is something unique to her and Widmore. I don't know if you guys think this is a pointless fact or what..--Integrated (User / Talk) 17:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Yah, I think that makes sense. One more that I'd add to that list would be Charlotte, because she was played by an unknown little girl in "LaFleur", by Rebecca Mader in Seasons 4 and 5, and by Maya Henssens in "The Variable" and "Follow the Leader". Or, I guess it kind of depends on how you view "LaFleur"; if you say it's a flashforward, then Charlotte is also played by 3 actresses in "present-day", but if you say it's a flashback then she's only played by 2 actresses in "present-day". Anyway, I'm done rambling. lol. --Crash815 Talk 18:57, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Ok very interesting point, I think it might be argued that Lafleur was a flashforward from 1974 to 1977.. but it might be argued that it was a flashback from 1977 to 1974.. anyway that's a point for Charlotte's page.

• Personally, I choose to call "LaFleur" a flashforward, since our "present-day" at that time was 1974, so according to that, yah, Charlotte would also fit in this category. --Crash815 Talk 05:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

In League with "Esau"?

Is she in league with Jacob's nemesis? She was the driving force behind Locke being on Ajira 316 thus returning to the island. Or is this all part of Jacob's master plan and she's doing his bidding?Meteor 02:07, November 29, 2009 (UTC)Meteor

Global Welfare Consortium

The "allegedly" means I did not provide the information the site wanted. I make no recommendations.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 20:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

My UQ

I posted a UQ, that said kind of: "How does Ms. Hawking know Desmond's future events?". I entered today and saw that the UQ has been deleted. Since this is a RELEVANT and IMPORTANT question, which DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER YET, and CAN'T BE EXPLAINED YET, I'm putting it back. Any thoughts? Here I am. --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 14:01, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

• I totally agree that your question belongs there, for all the reasons you stated. I don't know who would've deleted it or why. (I'd look at the page's history if I really wanted to know.) --Celebok 19:50, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Knowledge of the future

This is stated in trivia:

• Eloise's knowledge of the future comes from Daniel Faraday's journal which she acquired in 1977. Brought by her time-shifting son, the journal contained a great deal of information on the DHARMA Initiative and events up to 2007. This explains her uncanny knowledge of the future in encountering Desmond Hume in 1996. Daniel appears to have written quite a lot about Desmond in his journal -- with a specific note to himself: if anything happens Desmond will be my constant. ("Flashes Before Your Eyes") ("The Constant") ("The Variable")

However ... what? Daniel didn't write anything about Desmond! Only the constant stuff! He didn't write that Desmond had broken up with Penny, didn't propose to her, etc. etc. etc.! So obviously the journal isn't the source of knowledge that Eloise possesses! It must be something else! So I'm gonna delete this and bring up my UQ -- AGAIN! --Dr. James (4 8 15 16 23 42) 17:18, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

The deleted scene in "The End" between desmond and eli and the notebook were the punishment and the temptation. She sinned by killing her godlike son. FST was over when Desmond some people were waking up and she was not. Putting's Desmond name in the notebook would be like telling Mike corleone's victims that the pistol was in the bathroom. Charlie and Eli were on death list (not Jacob's). And yeah, it is the same church, but it is not Eli's anymore.--Past recaptured 20:55, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Flash

Uh? Where does she have a non-centric flash in The Variable? She's featured in Daniel's flashbacks, but all of them are clearly his pov, so she's just another flashback character. And the L.A. scenes are no kind of flash. --Golden Monkey 17:16, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

• Maybe someone was thinking of her scene with Charles Widmore toward the end? I almost responded with that just now, until I thought, "Wait, that's not a flash!!" --Celebok 19:08, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, 'cause if we counted that we'd have to count all the jumps between 77 and 07 as non-centric flashes. And they weren't flashes, they were just transitions between current storylines. --Golden Monkey 17:28, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Picture

Who's for replacing the current screenshot with this sultry promo pic?--- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 21:58, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

It shows better her face, which is good. We need to the face, not her other side. So I say yes, it's time for a new one.--Station7 21:59, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

• It looks kinda professional...like a real portrait photo. Are there any other promo pics? Ocie14 22:00, September 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • Not at the moment. --- Balk Of Fame ♪ talk 22:26, September 18, 2010 (UTC)