Talk: Character appearances

Previous discussion for this page while it was under construction in Mr.Leafs sandbox can be found here.

Rules

These are the general rules that should be followed when listing appearances on this page.

• Only on island characters are included.

• All main characters appearances are included.
• Recurring guest stars (2 or more appearances) are included.

• These appearances do not all have to be on island or in the same season.

• If a flashback character appears on the island after he/she has appeared in the flashback, all previous flashback appearances are also noted. (eg. Anthony Cooper)

• Character appearances for an episode are only added to the chart after the episode has aired.
• Main characters of largely recurring guest stars who do not die but do not appear are still listed in a seasons chart, with all white boxes.

• Any character that dies does not have to be included in the following seasons' charts unless he/she shows up in a flashback or dream.

-Mr.Leaf 13:38, 9 April 2007 (PDT)

Confused

• According the table, the Monster appears in every episode of Season 1 with lines. All of his squares are black. Now, am I being dippy here or is something wrong? :) --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  23:44, 9 April 2007 (PDT)
  • Almost all the squares were black for me. I changed the Season 3 section - does it work alright for everyone? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 04:06, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• Could we pick a better colour than white? It looks empty as white; like it hasn't been completed. --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  04:14, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• I feel white would be the best color in this situation. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 04:16, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Should the Monster's appearances always be grey, seeing how it never talks? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 04:29, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• Yes, definitely. The Monster can't talk. Though that would be quite funny. ;) --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  04:31, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• What about monster-Yemi? Is he the monster with lines? Yemi as a vision? --Jackdavinci 15:02, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Hey guys. The monster doesn't really appear until Exodus part 2 and all of his blocks before this point should be yellow, because it was heard. Also. Looking at the screencap at the end of "Not in Portland" it looks like Jason is driving the boat. I know that he isn't credited but I'm pretty sure it is him. ~Brock Tesomas

Browser Trouble

• After checking this out it appears IE (and possibly other browsers) unlike Firefox (which is what I am using) use black as the default. Unless another colour is specified all the squares will appear black in IE. In Firefox, white is the default colour. I originally had the colour code for white written in to each white box, but the page got up over 65kB, too much to edit, so in order to conserve space, I made a template and changed the white to the the word No, meaning in Firefox they show up as white squares. However this doesn't appear to be the case in IE. And changing all the codes back to white will quickly make this page shoot back up in size (already almost more than 32kB). I'll take a look at it when I can back at lunch and fix the problem if you don't mind waiting for a few hours. Thanks guys, and any feedback is appreciated. BTW you really should be using Firefox. -Mr.Leaf 04:51, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• I tried and didn't like it. Lol. But thanks anyway :) --   Lost Soul   talk  contribs  04:52, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Oh and guys, just so you know. Although i guess I should have specified this, a black square kills any other colour that could appear. Meaning that if a character appeared in a dream but also was a main character in the episode, the box will appear black. I will add a sort of hierarchy of colours later, once again if you don't mind waiting a bit. -Mr.Leaf 05:00, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• First of all, thanks User:LJB4815162342 for changing all the Nos to the proper colour code. I also added tags beside each box in the code (they do not show up on the chart) that indicate the character the box is for and what season, ex <!--EkoS2--> which is Eko for Season 2. This is because i just realized, when someone edits a box, it shows only the line in the difference thing in the history, making it impossible to know which character and for which season it was changed. I have yet to do Season 3, so i will hopefully get that done later. And Because of this the page once again reached 50kB so I made Season 1 its own template. I will see if I can find a way to keep all the content on one page and keep the size down as well. i will likely have to break of Season 2 later and make it it's own template as the page is now back to 40kB. -Mr.Leaf 10:20, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Key

This is really really good! I think it would help to have an abbreviated key that runs in one line above and below each table. This would make it easier to read without having to constantly scroll to the top to figure out what each colour means.--TechNic|talk|conts 14:03, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

I'll look into doing something like that. Maybe if I get adventurous, you can hover your mouse over the colour and it will tell you what it means, but that would take some time. I'll see what I can do in the mean time.-Mr.Leaf 14:56, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Hey, you got it going! This makes things so much easier for my short-term memory issues! :) --TechNic|talk|conts 13:29, 20 April 2007 (PDT)

Rules

Can we move the rules to the actual template? If you are a non-user reading this isn't very important or relavent to Lost. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:53, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

What do you mean, actual template? I have them there as if they are anywhere else users might not see them. I realize non-users are not going to care but they should just ignore them. Which template do you suggest we move them too?-Mr.Leaf 14:56, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

• Scratch my last comment. I just think it would be better if it were somewhere that non-users wouldn't see it. I don't know where or if we could even find a place where non-users can't see it but we can. You are right, they can just ignore it. I'll just stick with that until I find somewhere that I think would be better. Then I'll run it by everyone this talk page, if that makes sense. --Mr. Crabby (Talk) 14:59, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

Ya, thats fine. i was thinking of something the lines of a special template that goes in the corner of the page, that indicates there is a set of rules when editing the page, but that will have to wait until after the current things I am doing.-Mr.Leaf 15:08, 10 April 2007 (PDT)

I've added a template that adds two larger warnings in the top corners of the page. This should get peoples attention and non users will just ignore them. -Mr.Leaf 14:14, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Mistake on Arzt

I noticed a mistake for Arzt in the chart. The chart has him as dying in "Exodus, Part 1" and only appearing in flashbacks in "Exodus, Part 2". In actual fact, Arzt died toward the beginning of "Exodus, Part 2". -- JoserKyind 07:28, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks, its been fixed.-Mr.Leaf 14:14, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Mistake on Boone

It says that Boone appeared with speaking lines in episode 215, "Maternity Leave".—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tylerr395 (talk • contribs) .

Thanks, was an error in the code, it wasn't meant to show up like that but I assume you are using IE so it does.-Mr.Leaf 14:14, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

suggestions

• 1) Since most screens are landscape dimensions and characters now outnumber episodes I would suggest reversing the axis so characters are on top and episodes on left.
• 2) Rather than a heirarchy of colors, episodes with more than one applicable color could just have all the colors in the same box.
• 3) Characters whose flashback it is could have a * in the box

--Jackdavinci 15:09, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Okay, i like the ideas however:

1) As much as I see where you are coming from, and while doable, it will be utter chaos. The wiki tables are set up so that you set the index along the top and one by one enter the entries downward and while you do this you enter the values for each column for each downward entry. Changing this would lead to chaos, as all of the characters episode 1 appearances would be in the same row, you would have to know which # column a character is, ex 17 = Boone. I mean it could be done but would result in more errors and isn't as productive. Unless there is some wiki code I an unaware of that will let me change to landscape. Also unless I can find a way to write down (top to bottom) the character names would be written across making the charts about 6 times larger then even widescreen monitors.

I agree it does seem to be easier to edit in the current format. We could take advantage of the landscape format by placing all the episodes in one chart, with just a blank cell break between seasons.--Jackdavinci 11:01, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

2) I actually experimented with that however it really isn't doable (effectively). The table only allows you to make a solid colour background. I could make images with the multicolours and then place them in the boxes however that would raise the size of this page through the roof. It is already tops among edited pages, at 53kB. The wiki warning is at 32kB so we are really pushing it. And that is without the S1 chart on this actual page. I am likely going to make S2 into its own template too, but the images would still sky rocket the size and editability of this page up. The hierarchy was not my first choice but i had to settle with it.

how hard is wikitable within wikitable cell? --Jackdavinci 11:01, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

3) I like this idea. I will look into seeing what I can do as soon as I can, this definitely isn't too hard.

I will see what I can do about 3 and I will continue to try and make this article as good as I can, I will keep your ideas in mind and if I somehow come across a way to do them I will definitely look into it. Thanks for the ideas. Any suggestions are much appreciated. -Mr.Leaf 17:31, 12 April 2007 (PDT)

Thanks!--Jackdavinci 11:01, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Done.-Mr.Leaf 13:46, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Vincent

I added Vincent to the table. I just wanted to check - he does fit in with the rules, right? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 04:57, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Sure, why not. He's Vincent. He deserves to be included. -Mr.Leaf 14:49, 13 April 2007 (PDT)

Colour for dead bodies

I think there should be a colour for a dead body as many characters appear in episodes as dead bodies (such as Ethan and Boone).—The preceding unsigned comment was added by HolySock92 (talk • contribs) .

I don't think we need this. There are already too many colours, I think we want to keep this relatively as simple as possible. -Mr.Leaf 09:23, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

What colour should be used instead?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by HolySock92 (talk • contribs) .

Just use the #AAAAAA colour to indicate the character appeared but had no lines in the episode. I think this is done for most characters. -Mr.Leaf 17:01, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

Hover over squares to get description of colour

• I've been experimenting with this for a bit and finally got it to work. I've only done it for Jack's Season 1 Row ATM. Hovering over any square in that row will tell you the explanation of the colour and tells you whether its a flashback episode or not for those who don't want to keep looking up at the legend. This is just an experiment. It adds a lot of code to the template, I am going to see if can find out whether this is doable for all the characters size wise and make an automatic template to do it. In the mean time, let me know what you think. Thanks. -Mr.Leaf 17:29, 15 April 2007 (PDT)

This is now automatically done for all the Season 1 chart. Hovering your mouse over any of the cells will display a small line of text that explains the colour. I haven't made it display whether its a FB episode or not yet, expect that soon. It doesn't require any extra code, just uses what is already there. -Mr.Leaf 13:46, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Monster Apperances

I think the grey squares should only be used for when we actually see the Monster and the yellow squares for when we hear the sounds of the Monster. Just running it by.

Christian Shepard

I added Christian Shepard as he does appear on the island (as a vision). Does this count or not? - 0:22, 17 April 2007—The preceding unsigned comment was added by HolySock92 (talk • contribs) .

Thats a tricky one,i removed him however I think this one requires some discussion. He isn't really an island character as he only appeared a vision. For this reason Dave, and the Chicken Suit man would also have to be included. While I see Christian as important I don't think in my opinion he should be on this chart as the purpose really is for all the on island characters. Also if we want to include him for that vision he only appeared on the island once, and this chart is for characters who appeared more than once. If he was included characters such as Isabel and Adam, etc lots of on island people who haven't been included on the chart. So it would really be an exception however I am up for some discussion. Personally I don't think it is needed however if someone can present a good argument otherwise I'm willing to change my mind. -Mr.Leaf 16:30, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

True, but if it has to be 2 or more island appearances, doesn't that mean Cooper should be removed from the chart? - 00:39, 17 April 2007 (GMT) - PS, how do I sign?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by HolySock92 (talk • contribs) .

First of all, yes very good point. That was me little getting ahead of myself. We knew Cooper would appear in a future episode, so I decided to leave him until then because we knew it would be added rather than just removing him and re-adding him (I started with all characters in the chart even those with only 1 appearance then removed some). I can definitely see where the Christian thing is coming from, although i think we should draw the line here (perhaps other than Yemi who has been see numerous times on island). And to sign type four tides (~~~~) or click the button to do it automatically. -Mr.Leaf 16:47, 16 April 2007 (PDT)

I think Yemi could be in it as he appears on the island numerous times as a vision and a corpse. PS Thanks --HolySock92 08:28, 17 April 2007 (PDT)

I have re-added Christian as I see your point and added Yemi.

Kelvin to be removed?

If the characters on the appearance list have to have had an appearance on the island twice or more then shouldn't Kelvin be removed? He has only appeared on the island once. --HolySock92 08:19, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

No, the rule is that a character has to have more than 2 appearances (at least one on the island). There are a few characters although not many that only have one island appearances. The issue above was whether a dream/vision counts as an on island appearance. I have added Yemi and Christian so Kelvin should definitely stay. -Mr.Leaf 13:46, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Ah, I see. Then shouldn't Colleen be included? (And Goldie if being a corpse on the island counts). --HolySock92 16:29, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

I agree about Colleen and Goldie.--Alcornmeister 20:00, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Goldie, i disagree, he's dead, not really on the island. Colleen, yes I agree. And I realize she was added, but unfortunately I had to remove her at the moment. Unfortunately with the amount of templates on the page the size using the templates is to large and so the page won't include any more templates added to it so until I fix this problem we are going to have to leave her and any more new characters off. Thanks -Mr.Leaf 11:59, 21 April 2007 (PDT)

Infoboxes

• All infoboxes (excluding Christian and Yemi ATM) now link the to the correct lines in all the charts the characters appear in. If the character does not appear the Season (S1, S2, or S3) has a strike though it in the infobox to show this. If you notice any problems let me know. -Mr.Leaf 13:46, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

Episode Counts

Okay, I had no idea where else to put this. I think there should be an "Episode Count:" section to each character profile. This means that people can view the character's profile (eg Jack) and see the episode count (eg 60). Then they can go to the appearances section and see what episodes that character is in. Just a thought. --HolySock92 15:19, 24 April 2007 (PDT)

• I'll look into this, although it will require a lot of work, and it could get messy if users edit this page but not the character profiles, etc. -Mr.Leaf 10:27, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Season Three

Season Three has 22 episodes, but the template has 23 episodes. I attempted to fix it by making Template:Character appearances3, but when I tried to correct everything, it wouldn't work. Would anyone be able to fix it? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 14:16, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

Never mind, fixed it. >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 14:18, 12 May 2007 (PDT)

• And also Michael is added to the minor characters chart, but he doesn't appear in this season User: Orhan94

Libby

Libby should be listed as appearing in What Kate Did. She is at Shannons funeral but with no lines. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Buffyfan123 (talk • contribs) .

• Thanks, I've added that appearance. -Mr.Leaf 10:27, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Sayid FB mistake

The Greater Good isn't mentioned as Sayid's flashback User:Malachi

• Thanks, it's been fixed. -Mr.Leaf 10:27, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Pickett

Shouldn't Danny Pickett appear in the list as Danny, not just Pickett? Colleen is Pickett too, but she is mentioned by the name User:Malachi

• I've changed this, thanks. -Mr.Leaf 10:27, 20 May 2007 (PDT)

Separate main characters?

Does anybody else think that the main characters should have their own separate table? I find it's very confusing when I'm trying to figure out which of the series regulars appeared in a given episode because they're not even grouped together. I would suggest having a separate table which features only Ana-Lucia, Ben, Boone, Charlie, Claire, Desmond, Eko, Hurley, Jack, Jin, Juliet, Kate, Libby, Locke, Michael, Nikki, Paulo, Sawyer, Sayid, Shannon, Sun and Walt. Jimbo the tubby 16:38, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

What do you think of what I've done to the Season 3 chart (or now charts). Is that what you had in mind. Although really all I did was split the chart in half as the main characters are all grouped together already but its fine. -Mr.Leaf 16:45, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

I think that's SO much easier to read, although I'm not sure if I would qualify Michael, Walt, Boone or Shannon as main characters for season 3. And IMO, as much as I like them, definatly not Rose and Bernard. Jimbo the tubby 17:50, 24 May 2007 (PDT)

Disagree. I think that all characters should appear in one single table in order to avoid argues about Who IS Main Character and Who Isn't. Look at Season 1 guy named JD. We haven't even see him on the Island. He is on the Main Characters list still. User:Malachi 0:20, 26 May

By "main characters" I meant "series regulars". There's no arguing who is or isn't a series regular, just look at the list of actors who are given starring credits. As for JD, I'm pretty sure he's only there because the table hasn't been split yet. I'd do it myself, but I have no idea how the code for the tables works. Jimbo the tubby 21:50, 29 May 2007 (PDT)

• I'm confused. I get what you mean. Like having a table by itself with a character, showing every season of appearences. Its a good idea, but I think that should be for a separate link, not on this page though. Buffyfan123 13:46, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Mikhail Should remain listed as deceased for finale

• Even if he isn't dead we should keep him listed as dead for the finale. Here's why, there are too many reasons to beleive he is dead as opposed to living.

1. He most likely died in the explosion
2. Even if he survived the explosion he would have been caught up in the water pouring in and pulled toward the station making it hard to swim away for a little while at least.
3. He was not wearing breathing equiptment, he would have never made it to the surface alive after being under so long by holding his breath.
4. He is bleeding at least a bit. We know there are sharks in the water.

As opposed to some people's belief he lived which is not really backed up. I admit he might be alive but we should go by the evidence and list him as deceased. -Mr.Leaf 10:47, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

Lostpedia is not original research. NPOV would list as status unknown. --Jackdavinci 14:52, 9 June 2007 (PDT)

Disagree. It's not original research to say that a character is dead who all evidence indicates is dead. We should list Naomi and Charlie as dead for the same reason. Characters who seem to be dead should be listed as dead until proven otherwise; otherwise we wouldn't have listed Nikki and Paulo as dead after they were buried alive, or Shannon as dead after she was shot. -Silence 04:00, 17 July 2007 (PDT)

Jin and Sun in Outlaws

• They were 100% in the episode. Watch the episode again, They are clearing shown at the end without lines in the backhground. So that should be updated in the character appearences list.

flight attendents

• How do JD and Chrissy count? They may have been on the plane, but they've never been seen on island to my knowledge. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 22:01, 9 August 2007 (PDT)

Sorry, thought I had posted this earlier on the talk page. They are there merely for template reasons. As they use the Oceanic Passenger template and are the only deceased oceanic characters to appear in more then 2 eps. I have to use this chart to redirect from the templates on their articles or else I could only redirect to 1 of the 2 articles they are in for users interested in the information. They are exceptions to the general rule only because they use the Oceanic Passenger Infobox and they have although deceased had more then 1 appearances. -Mr.Leaf 13:58, 14 September 2007 (PDT)

But Chrissy was never on the plane. She was the woman who wouldn't check in Christian's coffin. Do you mean Michelle? >: 4 8 15 16 23 42 06:00, 15 September 2007 (PDT)

Rewrite

Am I the only one who thinks this page should be rewritten to show just the basics? That is, to only show black and white - appeared or not appeared, instead of having all the extra confusing colors (appeared only in flashback, appeared with no lines, heard but not seen, etc...) --SilvaStorm

Marvin Candle?

Could he be included? He's had at least two appearances, and on-island (in stations and the Barracks). Or do the fact his appearance were on film not count?  >: 4 8 15 16 23 42  13:15, 1 October 2007 (PDT)

I would say since he has never been seen live (not in film) count his film appearances as regular appearances. Feel free to add him if you'd like or I can. -Mr.Leaf 13:19, 1 October 2007 (PDT)

Should We Have a Page just for overall episode tally, or make another chart?

I think it would be helpful if the was a overall, acculative number of how many episodes each characters have been in (it doesn't need to be in such detail as this page has, just simple a number). -j52y

• • I agree

Missing Pieces Appearances

• Please leave all main characters on the missing pieces chart for now. Wait until the end of the missing pieces to remove them. It makes it easier with regards to the infoboxs on character pages and it is likely some if not all of those that have not already appeared will later. Also, it is more likely someone will look to see which mobisodes Kate's been in and seeing a empty line will be easier to find and understand than her not being their at all. -Mr.Leaf 09:06, 23 December 2007 (PST)

I was going to add the appearances for Buried Secrets but I'm not sure what Jin should be marked as. He doesn't speak a line...--Baker1000 15:37, 26 December 2007 (PST)

The legend at the top of the page is what you are looking for. I would mark him with the gray colour as it means appears but with no lines. -Mr.Leaf 09:47, 27 December 2007 (PST)

Ok, thanks :)--Baker1000 10:21, 27 December 2007 (PST)

• Vincent is still missing in the chart --Hunter61 10:55, 27 December 2007 (PST)

Christian have two rows. Remove the last one. I'm not sure how to do it.--Mc peko 17:13, 29 December 2007 (PST)

• Add Neil to it. He was in one!

• • Should the monster be in the Missing Pieces? He was in Arzt and crafts

I don't think the monster can be considered as a character. Also, it isn't on any of the other appearance tables.--Baker1000 15:09, 12 January 2008 (PST)

Actually he is on all 3 other season tables. I'll add him. -Mr.Leaf 19:10, 12 January 2008 (PST)

Who changed all MP appearances to be flashbacks? They were presented as small standalone epiodes, not flashbacks or deleted scenes. We should change it back. Malachi 14:29, 30 June 2008 (PDT)

Arrangement

Would it be better for the characters to be arranged in some way? Maybe by number of appearances or alphabetical? (I'd go for number of appearances)  >: 4 8 15 16 23 42  12:18, 29 December 2007 (PST)

Some sort of arrangement would help but i don't think number of appearances. Reason being when we start the Season 4 chart the appearances are going to change, etc, and we are going to have to keep reordering. If we want to reorder I suggest alphabetical but that would be tricky as some characters have only 1 name, some have both, and some have neither. If you want to go for it, do so, but don't change the names in the id tags. Thats how the infoboxes link to them. -Mr.Leaf 13:24, 29 December 2007 (PST)

Cindy in Tabula Rasa?

The table has Cindy listed as appearing in Tabula Rasa (1x03) but I don't recall seeing her at all in that episode. The Lostpedia page for the episode also doesn't mention her. Is this a mistake or was she actually in the episode? Jimbo the tubby 17:05, 7 January 2008 (PST)

There was a quick flashback to inside the plane with Kate and Mars - was she briefly shown there? -- Graft   talk   contributions  17:21, 7 January 2008 (PST)

I've removed her from that episode - I watched the scene with the Flight 815 flashback and she wasn't in it. -- Graft   talk   contributions  00:00, 5 February 2008 (PST)

She is heard only in a flashback. Does that count? Malachi 12:52, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

Flashforwards in legend

I modified the legend so that red (the colour for flashback appearances) is also the colour for flashforward appearances. This reflects how the table for 4x01 was already being done and this way we don't have yet another colour to keep track of in the table. Hope that's okay. :) Jimbo the tubby 09:26, 1 February 2008 (PST)

Ya, it seems we have removed both terms and now just use either the term "flashes" or "centric" on the wiki to make it easier. Thanks for noticing it here. -Mr.Leaf 19:53, 1 February 2008 (PST)

Shouldn't both Charlie and Christian appear as "in vision or hallucination" for the first episode? Malachi 04:29, 2 February 2008 (PST)

5 epsode limit

• I think for the character counts for the minor characters, we should limit it to only including people who have been in 5 episodes or more. j52y
  • But some minor characters are too important and would be cut. Jacob has only appeared in one episode, but is a big part of the over all mythology. --Gluphokquen Gunih ▲ 23:30, 4 February 2008 (PST)
• I agree, but I reckon we should change the list and have a new list for supporting/recurring characters like Rose, Danielle, Bernard, Tom etc. and minor characters for Greta, Bonnie, Ryan, Aldo, Isabel etc. one-time characters, appeared in no more than 2-4 episodes.

Minor Characters

Would it be more appropriate to call them "Supporting" rather than "Minor"? --Makiwolf 16:56, 13 February 2008 (PST)

• I think so, to me minor would be Greta/Bonnie and all the random others whom appear once or twice. Supporting/Recurring fits characters like Rose, Bernard, Danielle, Tom, Alex, Richard etc. I reckon we should change it and have characters listed under supporting or recurring and minor for one-time characters, random others etc.

The Economist

Alex and Karl can be briefly seen during Team Locke's jorney to the cabin. Malachi 02:06, 16 February 2008 (PST)

Hmm.. sure about that? I didn't see them, and neither Tania Raymonde nor Blake Bashoff was credited for the episode... Pierre80 08:38, 16 February 2008 (PST)

Penny, Regina & George

Regina and George are included in the charts while they never actually APPEARED on island (as of 4x03, that is), only communicated with someone on it, in present time. As such, should Penny be included ? She, afterall, appeared on island in TTLG (and TBOTE during the mini-flashback ...) and communicated with Charlie (the COMMUNICATION part is important, since it excludes everyone shown on videofeed ... such a Julian and Rachel) ... --LeoChris 15:23, 17 February 2008 (PST)

In any case, now that she's been seen in the linear storyline twice outside of flashbacks, she should have her own row. My view, anyway. --Pyramidhead 22:50, 3 March 2008 (PST)

Some rule/color changes?

Because we now have a better idea how flashbacks and flash-forwards are going to play out on the show, wouldn't it be a good idea to have colors for both flashbacks and flash-forwards? Clearly, appearing in another character's flash-forward is important and implies something totally different than appearing in a flashback.

Also, perhaps rather than having an 'on island' stipulation we should, instead, have a 'real-time' stipulation? This would allow Penny, Regina and Geroge (along with Christan, et. al) to stay on the charts, where I think we can all agree they belong. This would still exclude those who appear in flashbacks and forwards, but may be easier to define, as it appears all the action will not be on the island.

Thoughts? -- Willo 11:31, 20 February 2008 (PST)

This is an excellent idea... --     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email   11:51, 20 February 2008 (PST)

• I agree, excellent idea, solves alot of different problems all at once. --LeoChris 18:01, 20 February 2008 (PST)

Aaron in Eggtown

In addition to appearing in Kate's flashforward at the end of the episode, he also appears on the island with no lines which appears first on the list and therefore should be the color of that.

• But he has LINES in the flashforward ... so shouldn't it be appears with lines ? (No lines on island, but lines in FF) --LeoChris 19:16, 26 February 2008 (PST)

Frank?

Why is Frank considered a minor character while Miles, Charlotte, and Daniel are considered main characters? Did I miss something??     Nusentinsaino     talk    contribs    email   13:07, 2 March 2008 (PST)

The same rule that always decide if a character is minor or main - Jeremy Davies, Ken Leung and Rebecca Mader are credited as starring, while Jeff Fahey is a guest star. Pierre80 14:29, 2 March 2008 (PST)

Current Main Characters Order

• I understand the concept, but am I the only one who thinks it looks kinda silly ? With some characters having multiple flashes per season, for one, and with the minor characters being listed by # of appearances, for two, it leaves us with something weird-looking ... IMO, main characters should either be listed in billing order, or by # of appearances. Does anyone has thoughts on the matter ? --LeoChris 13:11, 4 March 2008 (PST)
  • It's a table with color-coded cells. I don't see how it looks any "sillier" now than it did before the new ordering. --Pyramidhead 02:47, 25 April 2008 (PDT)

Penny and Mikhail in 4x01

• Pyramidhead reverted my changes, so I wanted to bring the point on the discussion page. In this Youtube video, at 48 secs you can clearly see Mikhail while Penny is shown on the Looking Glass' monitor ... Should those appearances be included in the chart ? --LeoChris 20:14, 6 March 2008 (PST)

Total Table

Should we have a table for the totals and have different sections for different seasons and mobisodes? It would look better. ----Decboy

Kate in One of Them

I suggest to remove Kate's appearance in flashback in One of Them, since she only appears in the fotograph. Otherwise, we should add all Penny's appearances from the famous photo. Malachi 05:25, 29 March 2008 (PDT)

Warning about rules

I think the warning image that appears on the top-right corner of the page A) doesn't look good, and 2) it's very easy to overlook. Instead we could have a banner, as we always do for warnings, like this:

Important! Please read the rules before editing this page.

--     c      blacxthornE      t     08:20, 12 April 2008 (PDT)

Mobisode centric

Shouldn't the mobisodes have those star things that the other tables have? Like, "The Watch" is Jack centric and "Arzt and Crafts" is Arzt centic and "Room 23" is Ben/Juliet centric. Any thoughts?

Widmore, Penny, and Abaddon

Should the rules be slightly be changed for these 3 since they are obviously very important to the overall story, but none of them have had on-Island appearances. Also 1/2 the members of the freighter haven't either.

Doug

Now when he was oficialy listed as supporting cast and had a role with lines, maybe we include him in the list, just like Luke, Jason and Mayhew? Malachi 12:56, 16 May 2008 (PDT)

Template max

Looks like we've finally hit the maximum number of templates for one page. Should we go back to the non-template format for the earlier seasons, or consider splitting this page up in some way? --Pyramidhead 21:46, 31 May 2008 (PDT)

• I'd suggest splitting the page into 4 different ones, for each season ... It might also reduce the huge loadtime (Though that might just be my computer) --LeoChris 22:20, 31 May 2008 (PDT)
• Strongly disagree - this is not the page that could be split. If there are too many templates, why not just replace some of them with the original code? Malachi 02:22, 1 June 2008 (PDT)
• From experience placing all the original code will make the page too large. The reason the templates were originally created was to reduce the page size which was well over 300kb at some point during Season 3 (I believe). With everything added since then this page would be near unloadable and definitely uneditable. If someone wishes to try I recomend using a sandbox as creating a page that large could be hazardous and we've had problems in the past with changes being unreversible. There may be a way to reduce it by changing the source code in each template or even combining say for example the Season 1 & Season 2 charts into one template. For now, as there is no Lost however this isn't a major issue. -Mr.Leaf 17:17, 7 August 2008 (PDT)

Redfern, Kocol, Lacour and Mayhew

I think that Redfern, Kocol, Lacour and Mayhew (frieghter mercenaries) should be included in the character appearances for Season 4 as they are all recurring characters that have appered more than twice in present times HolySock92 07:36, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

I disagree. They are only extras and their recurrences are listed in subsections of Background cast. There are dozens of extras who have five or more appearances on the Island but even if they have been named in the dialog, they are not listed here until they had lines. I have reasons for including Doug though sinse he appeared in main credits (see above). Malachi 09:54, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

Well if the "lines" tings applies then Vincent, Aaron and the Monster should be removed. Background Others such as Jason, Luke, Matthew and Ivan are listed in the Season 3 character appearances. Redfern, Kocol, Lacour and Mayhew are important minor characters involved in a major plotline unlike any other "background characters" on the show.

Jason, Luke and Matthew were listed in the main credits at least once Malachi 00:39, 8 June 2008 (PDT)

About Redshirts

The other thing that bothers me is presence of Scott and Steve in Season 1. I am aware about Scott-and-Steve problem but still: the actor who (presumably!) portrayed Scott in Season 1 is still visible in the background through Seasons 2, 3 and 4. In fact, he is even present on the second run of a Zodiac Raft alongside with Daniel and Craig. All of his non-speaking apperances before "his" death are in this list, yet none of the post-death are. Dead body in "Homecoming" is of another extra, who has not appear on the Island since. Since we have not reach consensus yet, I'd like to remove them both in order to avoid further confusion. Malachi 09:54, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

Marvin Candle should be renamed

Marvin Candle's name has been revealed as Pierre Chang. The "Character Appearances" should reflect this. --Marc604 03:21, 6 August 2008 (PDT)

Major Problems

There are major problems on this page, as a bunch of html text is showing up in one of the columns in every table. This was probably caused by the switch to wikia. However, I'm no good at html (editing for grammar and style is more my thing). If someone could take a look at this, that would be great! LOST-David 07:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks for the heads up! The issue is now on our to-do list. -- ^Contrib¯ _Santa_ ¯  ^Talk  08:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor Characters total episode count

I think we should add characters like Carmen, David, Mr. Paik, Copper to the charts, since they are pretty signicant characters of the losties families and play a role in off-island action and have been in at least more than 2 episodes. So I think they should be included to the list. Losties parents should be included in total character count. What does everyone think?

Eko in 3x06

Eko's body can clearly be seen in this episode. He should be listed as "Appears with no lines". Anyone else agree? Tranquility 15:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Naomi is listed as such for 4x03. I've changed the table to show this.--Baker1000 16:32, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Kate in 4x04

I'm not sure how to classify Kate in 4x04. She appeared on-island (with lines) and off-island.   CANADA DRY    talk    contribs    email   05:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• I assume you mean 5x04? I think it's fine as it is now, that off-island orange color. Tranquility 16:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Appears on-island during time skip?

I think we should have a new colour for characters who appear on the island during a time skip. Right now Claire is listed as appearing on the island with lines, but that's clearly not the present time Claire (the one which went missing). We should avoid the confusion of present time characters appearing the same as past versions of characters. We already have a different colour for appearing in an on-island flashback. Examples are: Rousseau and Ethan. Let me know what you think.--Baker1000 17:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I think Claire's color should be GREEN for 5x04, not BLACK, as she was appearing in a flashback. Granted, it appeared as the "present" because our people were time-shifting, but it can also be seen as an "interactive flashback" of some sort. I vote just making it green instead of adding a new color. Marc604 12:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it qualifies as flashback. Flashback is what happens in the past of a central character's storyline. This one happened in present time for the central characters (Sawyer et al). We either accept is as normal appearance, or we add a new one for time-skips. But not flashback.--     c      blacxthornE      t     13:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If we do add another one, it needs to be 'Appears Only During On-Island Time Skip.'    CANADA DRY    talk    contribs    email   16:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

And (Season 5 only) like the orange for off-island characters this season.--Baker1000 17:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I think season 5 fundamentally changed the flashback structure of Lost, and trying to adjust this page's original template to fit the new structures has turned it in to a mess. I think For instance, I don't see the point of distinguishing on-island vs off-island anywhere on this page, since it's about character appearances, not when/where they appear. Orbitingteapot 19:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Marc

Marc Silverman should be removed from the table - he appears in flashbacks only. Mauser 11:22, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Tightening rules for inclusion

I am going to suggest that we reduce the number of characters on these templates. Pretty soon there's going to be too many templates on one page, and the page is already horribly long as it is. Perhaps it could be divided up to create a separate pages for background and flashback characters. I am suggesting that a minimum of three 'non-flash' appearances with lines in order to be included on the list. This would eliminate background and flashback characters and make the chart easier to read. Then we can have charts for background and flashback characters without making the early season charts a hassle to navigate through.    Willo    talk    contribs    email   23:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

"2 or more episodes"

IMHO this page is getting overly complicated. At the top, it states "These charts list the appearances of all characters who have had recurring roles (2 or more episodes)" But the actual charts include lots of data for characters having only one appearance. This makes for really long, pretty useless charts for the minor characters. Orbitingteapot 19:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Can you give examples for characters that only appeared in one episode? Marc604 23:31, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

A change to BLUE (character dies)

With the deaths of Abaddon and Locke off-island in #5x07, does anyone have a problem with changing the definition of blue to just be "Character dies in this episode"? (Getting rid of the "on-island" part.) Only a few changes will have to be made in the list (such as Nadia going from red to blue in "The Shape of Things to Come"), but I think it's important to note when an important character dies, whether or not they die on- or off-island. Marc604 23:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree: I didn't actually know it was for on-island character only, but we really do need one for character who die off-island. To save making a new colour we should just remove the "on-island" part.--Baker1000 20:40, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Baker. In addition, we don't know where the future of the show will take us. What if a lot more people start dying off-island? Their deaths should be noted in the Appearances thread. And instead of adding a new color (there's too many already), refining the definition of blue makes the most sense to me. Marc604 07:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

To the person that keeps changing things away from blue, go ahead and state your problems here, so we can have a discussion. I changed them back to blue today. But as you can see, it's been 12 days since I proposed the change, and no one had any problems with it. Please, let's discuss. Marc604 02:39, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Disagree. Chronologically, Abaddon died long before the first flashforward ever in "Through the Looking Glass, Part 1". Just because we see this event from Locke's perspective, doesn't mean that the present-time events of "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" have any bearing on Abaddon's status. It's just misleading to list that he died in this episode when, from a chronological perspective, that death actually happened during the three years we jumped past. --Pyramidhead 03:04, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

The rule states nothing about chronology. It simply says "Character dies in this episode." Likewise, as soon as we see Christian Shephard's death scene (if ever), that will be the episode where he's listed as blue. Marc604 06:12, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

And one more thing. What if a normal fan comes to this page (read: not one of us know-it-alls) looking for the episode where Abaddon dies? They'll look at all of his appearances, searching for blue, but won't be able to find it under your rules. And so it comes down to this: what's the point of the blue color? Isn't it to establish, without fail, what episode the character dies in? Marc604 08:10, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the rule did used to state chronology, that's the point of this entire discussion. The color scheme is based completely on the time frame in which each character appears, and it makes no sense whatsoever to disregard that just for this one qualifier. Also, if these fans are in fact "normal," they won't come to this page looking for that information, they'll search for Matthew Abaddon, which gives the name of the episode in which WE SAW him die. --Pyramidhead 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Just so everyone knows it has been changed it was originally just character dies, however pyramidhead changed it on his own if you look back everyone who has died of island or during fb has always been blue so dont worry i fixed it. --Czygan84 15:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Penelope problems

Many of Penny's appearances (2x23, 3x22, 4x05, 4x13) appear as BLACK, when the definition of black is "Character appears in episode, on-island, with lines (Must be English and audible or subtitled)." Now, Penny has never set foot on the island yet, nor has she been on the freighter. Either her colors need to change to something else, or the definition of black should change. Also, while we're talking about Penny, I believe her name should be listed as "Penny" and not "Penelope," as it's what she's known by. (Example, Hurley is called "Hurley" and not "Hugo" because that's what he's known by.)

Nurse Susie Lazenby

Nurse Lazenby should be added to the chart, as she's been in 3 episodes. "Dave" (S2, in a flashback), "The Beginning of the End" (S4, in a flashforward), and "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" (S5, in a flashback). Marc604 05:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

All right, I added her appearances. But how do I make the Lazenby page reflect her S2, S4, and S5 appearances? Marc604 00:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Massive Overhaul

I'm an intelligent person, and even I get confused sometimes with what all of the various colors mean. I mean, my gosh, there are a LOT of colors now! So I suggest a massive -- SIMPLE -- overhaul. One that will merge/redefine RED (flashback/flashforward), DARK ORANGE (S5 off-island), and LIGHT ORANGE (S5 off-island no lines). To explain, we have BLACK which means "appears on-Island with lines," and GRAY which means "appears on-Island without lines." Likewise, we should change the definition of RED to mean "appears off-Island with lines" and LIGHT RED to mean "appears off-Island without lines." No more flashback/forward/S5 off-island, but instead just a simple, general OFF-ISLAND color. What do you guys think? This way, it alleviates the Penelope problem from above (that she's incorrectly labelled BLACK when she's never set foot on the Island) by giving her the new and improved default color of RED, for appearing off-island. Thoughts, please. Marc604 08:27, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I think its fine the way it is, I mean we dont need to change everything plus changing it would confuse a lot of people who are just getting used to it, if anyone notices a problem it usually gets fixed pretty quickly. --Czygan84 20:35, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

*How would we distinguish some of Penny's appearances then? She's colored as black in the S2 finale, but she didn't appear on-island. If anything, she should be the new orange color, but the definition of orange is only for Season Five. There should be an entirely separate color for Off-Island (flashbacks, flashforwards, present time, it shouldn't matter). Marc604 09:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Separating Season Finale Episodes

I've noticed that Abc as well as the producers have stated that 5x14 will be the 100th episode of lost, Ive also read that Harold Perrineau was credited as appearing in 6 episodes in S4 even here in Lostpedia the Namaste synopsis says its episdoe 92. Now by my calculations epsiode 100 would b3 6x1 and Michael was only in 5 episodes that season but i assume they are counting the finales as two episodes. Seeing as both abc and the producers constitute the finales as two episodes I think we should make the appropriate edits and split up each of the finales into two episodes now if everyone agrees I would be willing to go through and make the appropriate split point and all of the edits but I wanted to get some feedback on this. After splitting the time and watching the dvds I came up with these appropriate split points.

-Exodus 2&3 = after monster is moving in on lockes face

-Live Together Die Alone = after jack confronts michael

-Through The Looking Glass = DVD already has episode split up

-T.N.P.L.H. 2&3 = right after sawyer jumps out of chopper

--Czygan84 20:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

• Oh, there's no question that these need to be split up into two parts. I can't believe it hasn't been done yet! S1 finale should be broken into episodes #24 and #25, S2 finale should be #23 and #24, S3 finale should be #22 and #23, and S4 finale should be #13 and #14. Go to it!! Marc604 09:19, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I know right this should have been done a while ago i guess if people dont start getting in on this debate then 2 of 2 looks like a majority. --Czygan84 21:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
    • We should have a cutoff point. If no one complains by a certain date, then this change should be set in motion. Let's say... one week? Marc604 00:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

• Personally, I think that episodes should only be put in different boxes when the second part begins with a new main credit sequence. IE, if there are main titles and on screen credit. Otherwise it's just a a two-hour long episode.
  • I'm fairly sure all the season finales are split up into separate episodes overseas, definitely where I'm from down under. I don't own the DVD's, but I know that part 2 of the S3 finale starts with the Jack/Kate scene. -- Tristan0709 06:22, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
• I agree with the idea to have character appearences noted per hour and not counting 2-hour finals as one episode, since some characters actually only appear in one of the 2-hours anyways, so its easier that way e.g Richard only appeared in part 1 of the season 3 final, Penny part 2, Walt part 1. However I dont think we need to actually split up the season-final pages, keep them on one page, with simply editing the title to part 1 and 2. Lostbuffy23 14:13, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I agree that finales should count as multiple episodes. --Managerpants 14:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
• well just so everyone knows while im the one that started this discussion im not the one who made the changes before a consensus was reached. --Czygan84 04:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Ahh, I wondered who did it. Seems okay though -- the "split it" votes greatly outway the "don't" votes. Marc604 23:47, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
    • Yeah i was gonna wait a week but hey less work for me. --Czygan84 20:15, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
• It makes sense to split them if 5x14 will officially be the 100th episode. Weird nobody has thought about this before. Tranquility 13:55, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Christian's appearance in Namaste

Right now Christian's appearance in Namaste listed in purple as "Character only appears in a vision, dream or hallucination", but maybe it should be in black as "Character appears in episode, on-island, with lines" since it seems he's alive as both Sun and Lapidus can see him? Either way, it can't be a vision, dream, or hallucination because both characters would not have the same one, at the same time... or would they? Just a thought, any suggestions? Kaisle 16:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I believe the concensus is that his character is listed as purple on-island until we find out what the truth of his character is. So once that's revealed, then the correct color changes will go into effect for all of his appearances. Marc604 22:54, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Locke's Death

Is there any reason why Locke's appearance in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham is not marked as blue? Even if he was resurrected, he still died in the episode. --Managerpants 16:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

• The debate above was the reason but ill fix it. --Czygan84 21:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Losing the Light Orange color?

Anybody else have a problem with getting rid of the Light Orange color? The definition is: "Character appears in episode, off-island, with no lines that can be heard or are subtitled ("Because You Left" through "316" only)." Talk about silly. Do we really need to differentiate whether a character who appears between 5x01 and 5x06, off-island, has dialogue or not? None of the other colors are so ridiculously specific. I say get rid of it, and just make the one or two people who this actually refers to the regular orange color. Marc604 05:25, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree, let's gat rid of the light orange color, this is realy not important if the character had a line or not. I also think we should change the "Character appears in episode, off-island, with no lines that can be heard or are subtitled ("Because You Left" through "316" only)." rule to "Character appears off-island (not in flashback or flashforward)" so that it can be used in Penny's case in 2x23. --Kemot from Poland 17:59, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Agree I believe this applies to just three people Locke, Aaron and Sayid therfore it needs to go, we dont need a color for just three people thats ridiculous, just make them that regular orange color. --Czygan84 20:13, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

• All right, I might have a go at changing it over the next couple days, unless someone has a specific reason for why these three instances are so important that they not be changed. My guess is that, when the Light Orange color was created, the thinking was that the O6 would be off the Island for a longer period of time. But since that didn't happen, the color is now pretty useless. And Kemot, that's a fantastic idea about getting rid of the "BYL Through 316 Only" part, and allowing Penny to be included in this color for her S2 appearance. What do we think is the better phrasing -- "CHARACTER APPEARS OFF-ISLAND (NOT IN FLASHBCK OR FLASHFORWARD)" or "CHARACTER APPEARS IN OFF-ISLAND PRESENT"? What sounds better to you guys? Marc604 01:53, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

• "CHARACTER APPEARS IN OFF-ISLAND PRESENT" - hmm... the word "present" isn't actually the best one, because in the first episodes of S5 there are two different "presents" (on the island and off the island), but still it is good for me. --Kemot from Poland 11:37, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I got rid of the light orange color, and changed the definition of the regular orange to say: "Character appears in episode, off-Island -- not in flashback or flashforward." Hopefully this works for everybody. If not, let's discuss. Marc604 10:01, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that this color also applies to Penny in "The Constant", when Des calls her from the freighter. --Kemot from Poland 13:21, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

• Ahh, great point. Any others? Marc604 01:39, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
  • Penny in Through the Looking Glass ? She's talking to Charlie, sure, but she's not on the Island. Probably Penny in There's No Place Like Home too ... the Searcher is not the Island. Also ... should the freighter be considered as off-island ? Because if so, pretty much all of Michael's season 4 appearances need to be switched to orange. Possibly some of Desmond and Sayid's too. --LeoChris 02:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The freighter can be considered sa "on-island", and I think that the Searcher in S4 Finale too. --Kemot from Poland 14:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah for sure the freighter is on island and the searcher but great idea Marc604 its about time we get some good rule changes. --Czygan84 01:39, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

"Character dies in this episode"

I think this is an irrelevant information whether the character dies in the episode or not. Better use of the blue color would be "character appears only as a corpse" (e.g. Roger in 3x10, Danielle in 4x10...) Alternatively, the deaths can be marked in the same way as FBs/FFs - with a cross in the box. --Kemot from Poland 17:19, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I also have an idea to create a new color for "character appears in a video/photograph" --Kemot from Poland 17:56, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

• • I think its very relevant as to when a character dies because for new users the blue would explain why all of a sudden their appearances stop after a certain episode so i disagree i am a big fan of the blue color but the "character appears in a video/photograph" sounds good you should make it brown or something i think were runnin outta colors you know. --Czygan84 01:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Cassidy Phillips

I notice she's not been added to the S5 appearances yet -- but she's also missing from her S3 appearances. Anyone want to add her? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marc604 (talk • contribs) 2009-04-06T08:31:43.

Caesar not dead?

We should not consider Caesar dead, at least not yet, all other pages consider him as "unknown" (Caesar, List of Ajira Flight 316 survivors...). I say this because of the blue colour in his appearance in 5x12... --metalpotato@hotmail.com 06:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

• Seriously, who put him as blue? Let's wait for confirmation. We've seen many people survive bullets in this series. Marc604 06:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
  • A bullet, perhaps. A shotgun blast to the midsection at near point blank? Hm...  Robert K S   tell me  06:43, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
    • I don't try to say he's alive against all evidence, I just say he is not "confirmed dead" ^^ --metalpotato@hotmail.com 06:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
      • Yeah i wouldnt list him as dead yet I highly doubt he is i mean weve seen this island do wierd stuff. --Czygan84 15:33, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Remove portrayers from the tally ?

As it has been seen (see page history) listing all different portayers for a given character makes the page look weird and overcrowded, at least in my opinion, but not doing so raises another question : What do we do for episodes in which a younger version of the character was seen, but the older counterpart wasn't ? I'm thinking the character appearances page should reflect just that ... CHARACTER appearances, not actor appearances. Therefore, should we just remove the actors' names from the tally ? It's easy enough to see who portrayed any character on that character's article anyway ... Thoughts ? --LeoChris 21:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

• Agree. Having all the actors for each character can make the list too clunky, but not listing them all makes the list inaccurate. --Managerpants 23:34, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
• Agree. Great idea, LeoChris. It's a character appearances page, NOT an actor appearances page. I say get rid of all the actor names. Marc604 12:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
• Agree - A good example is Melissa Farman portraying young Rousseau, even though we don't see Mira Furlan, it still goes into the overall tally as "Mira Furlan/Melissa Farman" in 26 episodes. Mira Furlan makes up 23 of those appearances, so what is the point of including Melissa Farman under the same tally?--Baker1000 13:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Diagree The portrayers are just a generlization. We dont need to even recognize most of the child actors thats for the Characters main page. --Czygan84 20:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• Exactly ... so why should we keep them on this page ? I'm not sure I get your point, could you explain it further ? You say the portrayers listed here are a generalisation, so that's not 100% factual, and if it's not factual, then, in my opinion it needs to go. (Since, you know, for exemple, Mira doesn't appear as Danielle in all the episodes Danielle appears in.) And, as you said, we don't need to list the child actors ... but why do we need to list portrayers at all ? I get that you're in support of not listing all portrayers, but why do you favor listing some selected ones over none at all ? --LeoChris 23:32, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not sure I get your point either, Czygan. To explain it here how I explained it on your talk page, I'll use the example of Ethan Rom. Right now, here on the Character Appearances page, the tally says "William Mapother as Ethan Rom - 13 episodes." Well, William Mapother has only been in 10 episodes, so the tally is not accurate. If we add the other two actors (one actor and one baby) to the tally, the count becomes accurate, but the list looks clunky. Removing all portrayers, you get "Ethan Rom - 13 episodes," which is concise AND accurate. I'm all for that. --Managerpants 10:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

• Great point, Managerpants. Also, the list implies that Alan Dale appeared as Widmore in "The Lie" -- when actually it was Tom Connolly. Again, I'll state the obvious, this is a character appearances page, not an actor appearances page. Marc604 05:40, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

• To be straight honest with you guys I dont know what I mean either your idea makes more since (and at first I thought the same thing as you guys did) but I previewed it and it looked wierd so Im still against it.--Czygan84 05:22, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

At this point it looks like there is only one vote (Czygan) to keep actor names on the character appearances page. Are there any others out there? If not, I don't think one vote should be enough to dissuade all of the others. Marc604 16:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

• Disagree Im new to this site and somewhat new to the show and I like having the portrayers listed like cygan says its just a generalization we dont even need to aknowlidge most of these young actors from what ive seen the only three that fit the bill as to your argument are danielle ethan and charles. --THE REAL DEAL998 21:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Where do we stand on this? Right now, it looks like there are more votes to remove the actors' names than to keep them. I don't see any reason to continue to wait to remove them, and after Follow the Leader, with both younger Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore appearing without their older counterparts, the page gets more and more inaccurate. If I don't hear differently soon, I'm going to go ahead and remove the portrayers. --Managerpants 17:33, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I waited almost a month to hear from anybody, and since nobody responded, I went ahead and removed the portrayers from the tally, per the reasons above. There were only 2 objections, and they were "it looks weird without the portrayers" and "I like it how it is," which are about as weak an argument as I've ever seen. The page is now more accurate, as it was getting pretty bad what with multiple actors portraying a character over multiple time periods, and now also with Jacob's nemesis having apparently been in the guise of John Locke since his "resurrection." -- Managerpants  Contribs  Talk  11:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm with you, I didn't see this poll before, but I agree. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 19:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Walt in 3X14

According to the character appearances, Walt appeared in Exposé. Is this true? Because I haven't seen him and thought I watched the speech and the crash very good... --Bas2804 18:37, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

• I dont think he does I know michael doesnt so that pretty much leaves walt out. --THE REAL DEAL998 21:39, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
• That's what I thought too. Why would Walt be in the flashback and Michael would be not? So could someone change it and delete the Walt appearance? And if he did appear, tell me when he did appear? --Bas2804 08:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Faraday not dead?

Since the comic-con video takes place after The Variable, and features Daniel Faraday's voice as he films Pierre Chang, Faraday can't possibly be dead. (Unless the Island resurrects his corpse.) But until we get confirmation, he should not be colored blue. Marc604 06:15, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

• Arent the 100 interviews confriming his death enough confirmation? --Czygan84 19:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
• He is dead, he was shot, expired, and Ellie closed his eyes. Maybe he can come back or the season finale can twist with alternate realities or something like that... But Daniel Faraday is dead. Period. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 00:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Faraday's voice on the video has been labelled a continuity error - nothing more. Kainaw 00:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Complete revamp

I don't know about everyone else, but I find this page incredibly difficult to read. Having to remember which colour represents what is just a pain. Last year I came up with what I felt was a better version, Portal:Recurring Characters, which contains every character with more than one appearance, right through the end of season 4. It's more detailed, and certainly more readable. I never really bothered bringing it up here before, but I wanted to get people's opinions on it because I find this page to be terrible when trying to remember all the different colours. (Note: there's an issue viewing it in Chrome which causes some of the table rows to be extra-wide. I haven't figured out how to fix it yet).  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  03:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• No flat out if you think this page is harder to read then the one you refrenced your crazy cuz i couldnt understand a thing on that other page I like this one and its not really that hard to know the colors theres no reason to make any major changes to this page. --Czygan84 19:58, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
• Looking at the suggested page, I was completely confused. Just too many new colors and letters. The reason I like the appearances page is because I'm used to it. If you feel there's too many colors (as I did, which is why I initiated getting rid of the light orange color last month) then suggest what color you think should go, and why, and maybe people will agree and we can tighten this up a bit. It's not perfect by any means, but it's easy to follow. Marc604 23:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• Czygan84: Can you be more specific about what you find confusing? It's essentially the same as this one, only more detailed, spelling out whether a character appeared in a flashback or in present time or flashforward, or any combination thereof. The character is on the side, with a list of episodes which are X'd off if that character appeared in a flashback/present time/etc. Marc604: I don't understand how you can say there's too many colours, since there's only two (three if you count no colour as a colour), which is 7 less than the current system. As for the letters, there are only 6 which is again less than the current system and also directly relates to what it represents (ie: "D" for dies, as opposed to blue for dies, which makes no sense). It also allows you to make reference to multiple states (ie: if a character appears normally as well as as a hallucination, then this can make note of it, the current system cannot.) If the problem is with the season-specific colours (blue, orange, green, dark blue) then those are easy to remove. If you're having trouble reading this, then I think it's just that you're used to the current legend. I suggest giving it another try.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  02:58, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• Your right i dont like the other page because im used to this one and im sure if you asked all the people who use this pg 9 out of 10 would like the current one better. The way i see it is theres nothing wrong with the page as is so we need to leave it alone if you wanna know what blue means look at the legend at the top i mean thats not hard. Theres no need to change this page at all. --Czygan84 04:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• Obviously, the page still needs some work (updating, getting rid of the need to highlight some parts to make them readable (black font on black background), some of the portals' text overflowing out of them, etc.) but I think it's way easier to read. Remembering what letters mean is, in my opinion, way easier than remembering what colors mean (to the casual reader, of course WE all know what they mean, since we update this page ... but we're not the intended public, not all of it anyway) it's also casual-friendly with the pictures, and thus, that'd support removing the portrayers' names from the tally (assuming we'd port the tally over to the new article) ... but that's another debate and I'm disgressing. Bottom line is, I think we should assume that a reader might know next to nothing about the show and see if the article would work for that person ... In its current incarnation, I'm inclined to say it wouldn't. --LeoChris 06:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• Portal:Recurring Characters is an article which gets rid of 7 useless colours which are intensively this article (I mean, do we really need different colours for Appears with no lines or Is heard but not seen and most of all Character appears in episode, off-Island -- not in flashback or flashforward on an article intended to list number of appearances), which makes it easier to edit and most important easier to read. Also, Character appearances is well... quite depressive when it comes to the choice of colours and lack of images, LoL. --Orhan94 08:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• I find the current page easier to read while looking at the propsed new page i found myself confused. --THE REAL DEAL998 02:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

• I like the suggestion. Of course it needs work, but it's way better than what we have. And as everything, it can be improved. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 00:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

So what? more votes? suggestions? --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 00:25, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

• Well a 4-3 vote is certainly not enough to make a change this big so unless we get more votes we leave the page as is. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  22:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

A consensus isn't reached over how many votes are for or against as "Lostpedia is not a democracy" and the consensus is reached by arguments not votes. --Orhan94 09:25, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Four people out of seven isnt enought to make a change to a page thats been this way for over two years ask any sysop. I was trying to put it nicely and be polite but if you must have the truth: you dont have enough votes an your arguments suck, happy. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:24, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

First of all, I find the proposed page *MUCH* easier to read than this one. I gave up trying to read this one a long time ago. Second of all... Czygan, you gotta calm down, buddy. There's no need to be so meanspirited. -- Managerpants  Contribs  Talk  03:37, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

OK, your serious my first comment was extremely polite but this guy had to be techincal and be quite frankly a bit of a smart ass so i gave him a little rib back. How is that mean spirited you need to be a little less sensitive buddy, if Orhan has a problem he can take it up with me but if anyhting im just messing around and being sarcastic the arguments obviously dont suck BUT when a complete revamp is suggested you need more than five people to agree with it. Its not like im attacking Orhan so mind your own buisness before you tell people to calm down and acuse them of being meanspirited pal. This page is for the discussion leave the side talk for my talk page. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:39, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I was only trying to make more people voting and bring more discussion, suggestions... I don't know why you started arguing like that, but I still think this should be more discussed... --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 19:26, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Somebody messed up #5x08

Can somebody go through and fix the colors for #5x08 "LaFleur"? They were correct a few days ago, but now they're all whack. Charlotte, Daniel, and Richard should go back to green, and Kate, Hurley, and Jack should go back to gray. Anything else need fixing? Marc604 23:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• I noticed that to i did some research and apparently some people believe that the 1974 stuff was real time and everything else was a flash forward now i agree with you i think it should be changed back, maybee we should get a vote on this topic going. --Czygan84 23:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

• I disagree, I say that 1977 was real-time and 1974 was a flashback. Marc604 02:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Charlotte and Lara in #5x15

I just re-watched "Follow the Leader" and Charlotte and Lara definitely have lines in this episode. I tried to change them from gray to black, but it wouldn't work for some reason. Marc604 09:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

• They actually dont the lines must be heard and subtitled (see rules) which they are not -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  04:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

• I aver that their lines are heard and subtitled, though they may not have been scripted.  Robert K S   tell me  04:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

• Im sorry i dont understand? -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  22:28, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

• Charlotte and Lara have lines that are heard and subtitled in "Follow the Leader".  Robert K S   tell me  03:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Watch the episode again, both characters have lines. Whether the subtitling company subtitles them doesn't matter, the characters actually SPEAK ENGLISH. Shouldn't that be what matters, Czygan? Marc604 11:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• Ive seen it several time i caught lauras voice but i still dont hear charlotte all i hear is her mom, what exactly does charlotte say? -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  04:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is Daniel listed as dying twice?

Why are both The Variable and Follow the leader listed as the episode in which Faraday dies? He can only die the once. Illyrias Acolyte 21:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• We see him die twice, in present time. Just like Shannon died in both Abandoned and The Other 48 Days --LeoChris 21:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Ah, I see. And the reason Shannon's is different is because it was in a flashback, so one is baby blue (death) and the other is green (appears in a flashback). I'm with you now. Illyrias Acolyte 21:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
  • What kind of logic allows you to see the same event happen twice in present time. If weve seen someting and then we see that same thing again then its not present its a flash back of what weve previously seen. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  04:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
    • It was shown twice under two different point of views. First, Daniel's in The Variable, and then Jack and Kate's in Follow the Leader. Just like This Place is Death begins shortly before the end of The Little Prince. It's not a flashback, it's just shown twice. --LeoChris 01:49, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Rule Change (Lockes Appearances)

Whats happened to Locke reminds me of whats happened to christian so i suggest a small change to the color purple i think we should add appearing as a manifestation to the purple and all episodes in which the real John Locke doesnt appear 5x11 and 5x12 would be purple the others would stay the same. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  22:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

• Purple is a good idea, but it should also be added to all of "Enemy"'s appearances too, since he manifests as Locke. Marc604 00:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

• Totally agree, all the appearances of the enemy (on his 1800s appearance or as Locke) should be noted, and I don't know why, but I think that in the sixth, this will be a bit more complex... --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 00:24, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah both should be purple and should stay this way until anything changes because heres how i look at it: if a corpse with no life/thoughts or anything "in it" gets credit for appearing then the fact that Lockes body and thoughts/memories are being used and most likely will continue to get used should count as well. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  20:08, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Trouble Editing?

For the past week or so, I haven't been able to edit the page. Is that because it's gotten too big, or is something else wrong? Is this happening to anyone else? I've been trying to change Nadia in 5x16 to blue (death) and Jacob in 5x16 to green (since Island-flashback comes before regular flashback on the list). Marc604 01:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

• Your edits are working fine it just doesnt show up on the main page until someone edits the main page after you made your edits, but if you look at the template it should show the changes that you made I noitced this too. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  04:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Strange. I hope the page isn't too big. Marc604 06:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

• Many large templates do this, I've noticed it on a lot of things including Template:Sectionbox Episode.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  06:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

+I noticed it too, just edit the template and then the main page and it will work. --Metalpotato - Talk - Contributions - ✉ 16:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Alpert, Tom, Libby, Alex

I think we should SPOILER REMOVED. also, I think we should fix Tom's name to say "Tom Friendly", Alex's name to say "Alexandra Rousseau" or "Alexandra "Alex" Rousseau", and fix Libby's name to say "Elizabeth "Libby" Smith". --Joshtopher27 09:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Information about Season 6 casting is considered a spoiler as per LP:SP. Also, I think the best way to do the names would be "Tom Friendly", "Alex Rousseau" and "Libby Smith" (and "Karl Martin"). The reason I don't like saying "Alexandra 'Alex'" or "Elizabeth 'Libby'" is because we don't say things like "Katherine 'Kate' Austen" or "Daniel 'Dan' Faraday". We should just use the most common form of their name in the show.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  20:06, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Even if the said "spoiler" has been announced to the public? ...and we have "James 'Sawyer' Ford" and "Hugo 'Hurley' Reyes". I'm just saying for the sake of being consistant. At least we should have "Elizabeth 'Libby' Smith". --Joshtopher27 20:48, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, even if that. It's similar to the case of press releases for an episode (which are publicly available) being considered spoilers. The current wording of the spoiler policy is such that the SysOps may decide that the casting information is sufficiently well known that they may "de-spoiler" it, similar to what happened with Harold Perrineau in Season 4. But until then, yeah. (Actually, I think I'll go bring that up on the Spoiler Policy talk page, so we'll see.) As for Sawyer and Hurley, those are actual nicknames, not just a contracted form of the name. Libby is short of Elizabeth, so it falls into the same category as Kate being short for Katherine.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  21:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay, that does make sense about Libby then. As for Tom Friendly and Alex (or Alexandra, doesn't really matter) Rousseau, their names should be changed, as should their pages. I don't know why I'm so adamant about changing their names, I just am lol. --Joshtopher27 06:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

What about Steve

Steve Jenkins is only in season 1 in the tabels. but what about season 2,3, or 4? And Doug. And Jerome? And the other surivors? --Desmondd 12:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Character totals split up into recurring and minor

• I dont get why we have the totals at the botton listed as main character and minor, I think we should have all non-regulars placed under recurring and minor, minor for character who have appeared in less than 5 episodes, and only in small roles. Whereas recurring should be used for all character appear in more than 5 episodes. Anyone agree Yes/No? Buffyfan123 15:10, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
  • Actually, that's a pretty good idea. Marc604 05:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  • As I never understood why we have it minor. there should be something inbetween for recurring. Like Danielle, Widmore, Rose, Bernard etc. I see them recurring, and characters like Greta, Bonnie, Carmen etc. they are minor. Do others agree with the change. 5 or less episodes = minor. 6 or more = recurring. Buffyfan123 13:42, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Choice of colors

Am fairly new to the site and I found the current colors VERY confusing. The orange is too close in to the red. Also a light blue for death makes no sense. I tried looking for when certain characters and automatically looked for red and kept finding flashbackss. Very frustrating. Red or black are traditional for deaths (though I can understand using black for a regular appearance). Why can't the color system used elsewhere in the site by used. Red = death, green = on island, bue = off island etc. Can this please be changed? Rachel P 08:54, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

It would definately make sense to at least swap the red and blue so that red applies to when people die and blue for off-island flashbacks/forwards. It's more logical and would stay true to other colour coding on the site. Menot 06:48, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Weve spent 5 years doing this and nobody has had any problems before. Four years ago maybee this is a good idea now its not I say we leave it as is. It will confuse way too many people who have gotten used to the current format. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  22:47, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Just because we've had a given format for a long time doesn't mean that format cannot be improved. As is, the colors used on this page are *only* used on this page. I think that modifying them to match the scale used everywhere else on the site can only be an improvement. First of all, it would be way more user-friendly for new users, and for the old-timers well if they're used to this legend, they should also be familiar with the other one. Ergo, there shouldn't be a problem there :) --LeoChris 00:24, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. I believe the reason "It's always been that way" should only apply when there would be no improvement when changing it. Otherwise nothing would ever change. There would be a definate improvement for new users and it only effects this one page. PS does anyone know why the code for season 1 & 2 appearances is so much more complicated than the rest (not important just curious). Rachel P 05:06, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

"It's always been that way" is not my argument maybee you need to reread it and pay attention this time my argument is that the confusion it will cause users is not worth it.-- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  05:27, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if that was intended for me or for Rachel P, but I'm aware your point is that it will cause confusion. My point is that new users, who aren't yet used to the color scheme wouldn't be confused if we changed it for obvious reasons, while experienced users should already be familiar with the scale, since it is used everywhere else on the wiki. So in the end, I fail to see where the confusing part would come in. Would you mind explaining your views in more details? --LeoChris 06:19, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

The colors are extremely confusing. Unfortunately, we've tried to fix it for the better before, only to see the issue die. Czygan, you've been active on this page for awhile... if you know any other users who you think should be a part of this discussion, by all means let them know. Incidentally, this page has existed for less than 3 years, so there is some slight exaggeration above. ;-) Cheers,  Managerpants  Contribs  Talk  02:21, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for a more making the colors more streamlined with what's used in other places on the site. PS I think orange would fit the visions/dreams/halluciantions/manifestations one best. It's used elsewhere for unknown and I can't think of another category on this page that applies more. Not sure what you'd use purple for though, defected doesn't really apply anywhere. Whatevers left I suppose.Mhtmghnd 02:16, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

• / Red for dies/green for alive is good. I also think we need a colour for manifestations/visions and for flashbacks and flashforwards. However I don't think there's any point in distinguishing between on-Island and off-Island flashbacks, it's not relevent. If we want to streamline the colours, that'd be the one to get rid of off the bat, imo.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  03:02, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Agree wholeheartedly about the irrelevance of on- or off-Island flashbacks. -- Managerpants  Contribs  Talk  03:04, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well I guess Im out numbered So time to choose colors, I started testing out different colors, we cant use the green and blue used throughout the site because they are way to similar so I came up with this legend

Character dies in this episode.

Character appears with no lines (that can be heard or subtitled). This includes appearances as a corpse.

Character appears on-Island (not in flashback or flashforward).

Character appears off-Island (not in flashback or flashforward).

Character is heard but not seen.

Character only appears in a vision, dream, hallucination, or as a manifestation.

Character only appears in on-Island flashback/flashforward.

Character only appears in off-Island flashback/flashforward.

Character does not appear in episode.

-lemme know what you think and we have to be carefull this will change alot we dont want to mix things up no one can make any changes untill we reach an agreement on colors otherwise everything will get screwed up. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:36, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

• Instead of distinguishing between on-Island and off-Island flashes, I think we'd be better off distinguishing between just flashbacks and flashforwards. Does it really matter where a flashback took place?

I still feel orange would be much better for the visions etc. Also agree with distinguishing between forward and back instead of on or off island for flashes. Additionally I say keep the gray for no lines as it looks too similar to the on-island and I don't think we should distinguish between on and off island for that either (the description doesn't specify). My proposal looks like this.

Character dies in this episode.

Character appears with no lines (that can be heard or subtitled). This includes appearances as a corpse.

Character appears on-Island (not in flashback or flashforward).

Character appears off-Island (not in flashback or flashforward).

Character is heard but not seen.

Character only appears in a vision, dream, hallucination, or as a manifestation.

Character only appears in flashback.

Character only appears in flashforward.

Character does not appear in episode.

How does that look to everyone? Mhtmghnd 02:47, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Not good. Why change purple??? Not to mention the 2 purples u suggest look very similar. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  02:52, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough about the two looking similar. I wasn't a huge fan of the brown so I was going for pink instead (fail - don't really care). I wanted visions to be orange as the color is used for unknown elsewhere and they are an unknown element of the show. What about...

Character only appears in a vision, dream, hallucination, or as a manifestation.

Character only appears in flashback.

Character only appears in flashforward.

If anyone else agrees with you about leaving visions purple I will be happy with that and have flashbacks orange.Mhtmghnd 03:21, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with mhtmghnd's colors (with brown not pink) but suggest we create a separate discussion about changing rules regarding flashes. There are already going to be alot of changes with the colors and I think we should make sure it is done right before we change anything else like that. Not against the rule change just want to keep it separate and afterwards. Menot 07:18, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Except can we make the green and blue darker. I fear without the black it will be too bright on the eyes. Those are the only two colors that are clumped together anywhere on the page so the others won't matter too much. These maybe-

Rachel P 03:45, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

I dont think we can make them both darker but maybe just the green. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  15:08, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Okay. I was just thinking about all the blue that would be at the start of Saeson 5. Also It's themeatically similar to the green. Definately more concerned about the green though. Rachel P 22:59, January 11, 2010 (UTC)

Finally these colors needed change as far as the above i like the changes suggested by mhtmghnd (w/ the brown) but i would leave the purple as is and use orange for fb. --THE REAL DEAL998 00:12, January 12, 2010 (UTC)