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Talk:Ben Linus


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Rewrite

This article needs to be re-written in the past tense. Half of the article is written is past and half is written in present. --Lewis-Talk-Contribs 09:36, 2 February 2008 (PST)

I did a little cleanup. How is it now?--Outpost road 12:00, 12 February 2008 (PST)

its fine. Dharmatel4 13:29, 12 February 2008 (PST)

seems to me this article is still very poorly written, particularly the summary. --Mbtoole 05:50, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

We await your improvements.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:14, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Dean Moriarty?

When did Ben take the name "Dean Moriarty"? On the road at some point?

--Stephenenelson 23:02, 14 February 2008 (PST)

It's the name on his fake Swiss passport (found in "The Economist"). Jsnell 23:07, 14 February 2008 (PST)
It's actually the name on his fake Canadian passport (found in The Shape of Things to Come. Rddswim 12:39, 18 June 2008 (EST)
I think that was a reference to the Jack Kerouac book. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  11:56, 20 May 2008 (PDT)
And Moriarty is also the name of Sherlock Holmes's greatest enemy. --Minderbinder 12:00, 20 May 2008 (PDT)

Why did he come to the camp?

Why did Ben come near the Losties camp in Season 2 and then was caught by Rousseau. He told Locke that he was coming for him and he's one of the good ones.

  • What if he was traveling just like he traveled to the Sahara. Maybe he traveled back to the Island by the same means and found himself in a trap on accident. I've wondered about this a lot, because it seems hard to believe that he just 'got caught' while walking around. --DeepForestGreen 12:52, 1 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Interesting but should be placed in theories. --Messeis 11:56, 1 July 2008 (PDT)

Move to Benjamin again

I suggest to move the article to Benjamin Linus again for following reason: nobody ever called him Ben Linus. He was called either Benjamin Linus, or Benjamin, or simple Ben. If this isn't going to happen, I expext to be explained why, please Malachi 11:44, 9 April 2008 (PDT)

I agree. Benjamin Linus is his full first and last name. Aobozu 09:42, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree ABC call him Ben in their press releases and (I think) in the credits.--TechNic|talk|conts 11:13, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree No one ever calls him "Ben" Linus. --James W. 19:26, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree We changed this article from Benjamin Linus to Ben Linus in mid-2007. I dont see any new argument presented here that would juetify the re-opening of this question. Dharmatel4 20:00, 21 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree Yes, that is his proper name. All that will need done is redirects from Ben Linus set up - nothing hard at all. Peterricca 12:24, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree Articles are named based on what the character is generally referred to on the show, not their full name. Just look at the transcripts, the other characters call him Ben way more often than Benjamin. As above, ABC also uses "Ben". Articles for Kate, Libby, and John Locke use Kate, Libby, and John, not Katherine, Elizabeth and Johnathan in the titles. This should be consistent with those and use Ben. --Minderbinder 12:35, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree for reasons stated by Minderbinder. BETTYFIZZW (Talk) 15:21, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Agree...sorta. He introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus" without fail; Minderinder, I can appreciate your argument, certainly, but there's somewhat of a difference because he does indeed introduce himself this way. "Ben" is the name that most people then refer to him by, but...I dunno. Doesn't make that big a difference either way, especially since "Ben Linus" would still direct to this page. Datameister 21:30, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Disagree We have an unwritten naming convention that says we use their common name used on the show unless its a nickname, at which point we put it in quotes, which is why we have Hugo "Hurley" Reyes, James "Sawyer" Ford etc. To highlight this common naming convention, we also have John Locke not Johnathan Locke. Further more, we moved this about a year ago from Benjamin Linus to Ben Linus, and no new arguments have been presented to change this, or the naming convention. People know him as "Ben".  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  04:29, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
I don't remember anybody ever calling Locke Johnathan. I also don't remember anybody using Ben Linus as his [Ben's] full name. Contrary from Locke, he is called Benjamin quite often, he even introduces himself as Benjamin Linus and we never heard anybody using his second name after Ben, only after Benjamin. I simply don't understand, why LP choose such weird combination of first and second name, that was never heard on the show or anywhere else. Malachi 05:22, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
Then you obviously didn't watch Further Instructions closely enough!!! I'm starting to think renaming to Benjamin might be better though in hindsight. Your point about never calling him Ben Linus on the show is some what mute, considering your nomination to rename Tom to Tom Friendly, yet they've never called him "Tom Friendly" on the show either...  Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  07:40, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
Kate is called Katherine a few times, yet her article is still called Kate. Sure, they use Benjamin a few times, and he introduces himself that way a few times (maybe twice? I count about seven uses of "benjamin linus"). But Ben is used on the show far more often. I don't get the fixation on whether they use Ben when they say his last name - since it's rare for the show to refer to any character by full name, first and last, I don't see why those few mentions should determine an article title - the only reason people haven't said "Ben Linus" is because they hardly ever refer to ANY character by full name. I wouldn't be surprised if they've said "Kathryn Austen" more than "Kate Austen" on the show, but I still wouldn't consider that reason to rename her article. --Minderbinder 09:12, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Just as a sidenote, his DHARMA uniform says "Ben" not "Benjamin". His full name may Benjamin, but he is far more commonly called Ben.--TechNic|talk|conts 09:43, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Good catch! That does indeed convince me :) Malachi 11:02, 23 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: If you're going to say his last name, you have to say his first name in full! Benjamin Linus sounds better the Ben Linus anyway!!--LOSTMAN1 19:08, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Other: This seems to be good evidence that the style policy on this issue is hard to follow in a consistent and clear manner. Maybe we should just use everyone's full names as article titles. --Jackdavinci 22:18, 25 April 2008 (PDT)
    • Agree: I agree with this statement. It does make more sense to change the policy, as this is an encylopedia after all, and should be kept relatively formal. Bltsponge 21:32, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: and if enough people disagree, the Benjamin 'Ben' Linus idea is a good compromise. -Moo 01:48, 26 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree': Ben identifies himself as "Benjamin Linus" (as evidenced in The Glass Ballerina), it is only other people who identify him as 'Ben'.
  • Agree/Other: Either we rename it to Benjamin Linus or to Benjamin "Ben" Linus like it's done with Sawyer article - Ben Linus is just as stupid as Sawyer Ford. SFilip 08:18, 26 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree: Is there anyone having trouble identifying the character because of the name in use? Two sentiments from a long Army career: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." and "We're polevaulting over mouseturds."--Gaarmyvet 09:36, 27 April 2008 (PDT)
    • Thing is, it only takes 5 seconds or so to change it. SFilip 04:22, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
      • And 10 days to bicker over a renaming/moving discussion that will ultimately do little else than provide a small form of aesthetic for the article regardless of the outcome. -PsychoYoshi 17:10, 28 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree: It's his full name - and you rarely hear 'Ben' and 'Linus' together, anyhow. It's one or the other, or 'Benjamin Linus'.--Goodwin's Ghost 18:04, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
Comment I agree with naming it to Benjamin Linus, because this is how the character refers to himself. However, Kate doesn't refer to herself as "Katharine," so that should not be changed. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  19:08, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • AGREE - it should definitely be renamed to Benjamin Linus. --CTS 20:21, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree. Introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus" ---- LOSTonthisdarnisland 22:07, 30 April 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - He calls himself Benjamin Linus Phil (talk) 11:26, 1 May 2008 (PDT)

Agree - People call him Ben, or Benjamin Linus. Since the page will not only say his first name, it should say Benjamin Linus. Agree, same as reasons as you guys. --The Cartographer 20:46, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Agree this is the case with many characters --Hostile108 03:31, 3 May 2008 (PDT)

  • Agree as the above --Ampts 03:53, 3 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree Because Benjamin Linus is his real name ;)
  • Agree It should be "Benjamin Linus", he is never called "Ben Linus", just "Ben", Benjamin Linus is his full name
  • Comment About the only rename argument on the right track is the one by SFilip above that says "Ben Linus is just as stupid as Sawyer Ford". But even this is not so: Ben is a shortening of Benjamin, so it is only as stupid as the shortening "John Locke", whereas "Sawyer" is not a standard nickname for "James" and so, like "Hurley", deserves to be set apart from the character's full name. The Agrees that make the argument that "Benjamin Linus" should be used because it is a full name or because it is the only version of the full name used by Ben misunderstand the naming convention, which is [Most common given name] [Distinguishing surname]. What is the character's most commonly used given name? Ben. Which Ben? Ben Linus. Robert K S (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2008 (PDT)
    • You're right, but my point was that you hear him referred to "Ben Linus" just as often as you hear Sawyer referred to as "Sawyer Ford" (in other words - never). SFilip 15:25, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree as he regers to himself as Benjamin - Jamesie 05:36, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree He always introduces himself as "Benjamin Linus," and he is referred to by the Freighter people as "Benjamin Linus." Other than that, he's "Ben." When people call him by his full name, it's "Benjamin Linus." Never, EVER "Ben Linus."C.m. 16:04, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree since a redirect is in place, all that is in question is how should the page look. When I made a wiki link from another page, not knowing how it was going to work, I typed Ben Linus as my first try. I realize if this has been going back and forth, it could have equally been wrong. But since people such as myself, do refer to him as Ben Linus, there should be at least a redirect as such. But to spend time arguing this point ad nauseum, is not unlike Seuss' Butter Battle. I'd vote the exact same way, if the question was to change from Benjamine Linus to Ben Linus. The first line clarifies to the reader this discussion. The rest just comes down to wiki-bullying. --Rev Kev 13:52, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Admittedly I am on shaky ground with my stance, I would vote the same to switch from Benjamin to ben, but I did note in the credits listed on imdb.com for the show, the character name is Ben Linus. I may be mistaken, but I understand that cite to be very exacting in their usage, and is not community edited, thus not subjected to the tyranny of majority rules. IMDB --rev kev 16:48, 11 May 2008 (PDT)
  • 'Really the fact that there is any argument at all about this means the policy should be changed to be easier to follow. Although ultimately as long as there are redirects it doesn't matter all that much. --Jackdavinci 18:42, 10 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - His name is Benjamin Linus. Therefore, the encyclopedic entry for him should be of his full name.--Halcohol 01:41, 13 May 2008 (PDT)
By that logic, shouldn't all character pages be at full names? Like Kate Austen instead at Katherine Anne Austen (surprised there's no redirect there). The site needs to be consistent. I don't know if there's a naming policy somewhere, but the site generally uses the most commonly used name, not the full name for titles. --Minderbinder 08:24, 13 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree. He introduces himself as Benjamin Linus. He does this to Jack in "The Glass Ballerina", and other times. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  12:11, 19 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Disagree - I'm pretty sure Ben's introduced himself as "Ben Linus", but I don't want to bother watching the entire series over again just to take notes. I'd like to comment that I think this is one of the dumbest debates being held on this site. I'd also like to ask if anyone knows how the character is named in the show's credits. --Doc 12:43, 19 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree - In contrast to the point above, I'm sure Benjamin introduces himself as Benjamin Linus - "Hi, my name is Benjamin Linus; and I've lived on this Island all my life". Even at the end of the last episode he said "My name is Benjamin Linus; I believe your looking for me."--4 10:52, 20 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Dont care- It doesnt really matter which it is, because theyre pretty much the same anywayEgg head16 14:20, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
    • Why did you post this, this is irrelevant to whatever should Lostedia rename Ben or not.--Orhan94 14:42, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
  • Agree No one on the Island knows John as Johnathan (except maybe Alpert, because he was there when he was born and named), or Kate as Katherine, yet everybody encluding himself reffers to him as Benjamin, rarely as Ben.--Orhan94 14:42, 21 May 2008 (PDT)
If you check, I'm sure that Juliette, Jack and Locke have called him Ben many times. They refer to him as Benjamin only when they also use his last name. In other words, he's "Ben" or he's "Benjamin Linus". Regardless, I think it should be whatever is used in the show's credits. --Doc 14:21, 23 May 2008 (PDT)

Birthday

The information box says December 21 and the article says December 20th. Where did we get the information for EITHER date? Meteor

In "The Man Behind the Curtain" we see Ben's birth, birthday as a boy when Annie gives him the dolls, birthday as a young man when he kills his dad, then birthday in the 'present'. He's at the ruins and Alex wishes him a happy birthday, and he also talks with Alpert about birthdays, and reminisces with the doll. So that's how we know when his birthday happened in the show. The actual date will have been discovered through the Timeline - however this has undergone/is undergoing several revisions of late, so that could be why the discrepancy has crept in. Having said that, the timeline currently says his birthday was 19th December, so I really don't know what is right!--TechNic|talk|conts 20:08, 26 April 2008 (PDT)

Sharing candy with Hurley

Are they trying to humanize the hell out of this guy, or what??? I'm finding it very, very hard to dislike Ben these days.C.m. 16:04, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

I found that a very awkward, funny moment in an episode full of violence and tension. I loved it. -- Sam McPherson  T  C  E  16:51, 11 May 2008 (PDT)

Questions Now Answered

I removed these unanswered questions, because they are answered as of the Season 4 finale.

  1. Is he able to return to the Island at will in the future? No. '(Ben: Whoever moves the Island can never come back)'
  2. Why did Ben ask for the date while in Tunisia? He has the same outfit and the same wound on his arm when he turns the wheel in the Orchid (December 2004) as he has when he appears in Tunisia (October 2005). It's all but spelled out for us that he traveled through time by turning the wheel, but was uncertain at what time he would end up.
  3. How did he arrive in the Sahara? See above. The Orchid's electromagnetic properties transported him through space as well as time.--Wstonefi 12:11, 30 May 2008 (PDT)
  4. Why can't Ben kill Widmore? I don't know which podcast, but it is a fairly recent one that the executive producers state that Ben can't kill Widmore for the same reason Michael could not die... the Island will not let it happen.--Pallacydenial 19:42, 7 June 2008 (PDT)

"Why did he wake up in Tunesia ten months after moving the Island?" The details leave no room for any alternate explanation: moving the Island immediately transported Ben in space and time. The only real question is "What governs where and when the Island transports someone when he moves it?"--but that is not a question for the Ben page. Robert K S (talk) 10:08, 2 June 2008 (PDT)

  • Ben is a notorious liar. Hence the first question: "Can he return to the Island?" is still unknown. This question has already been rewritten, however, and placed back on the article page.--Japhy Ryder 03:50, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Well 1 has been answered. Yes he can return to the island, but not exactly at will. :-D -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  03:23, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Unanswered Questions?

Shouldn't one of the unanswered questions be "Did Ben set up the fake flight 815 that was discovered by the Christianne?" Or do we definitively know it was Widmore who staged that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Deucedub17 (talkcontribs) 2009-02-09T16:23:15.

UQs that begin with "Did" (rather than "Who/what/when/where/why/how") are usually bad ones, because they make some presumption as their premise. But, no, since the only evidence of Widmore planting the plane has come from Ben/the Others, the people who had the most to gain by blaming it on Widmore and whose evidence would be expected to point away from themselves, I don't think we can put faith in its credibility and the question remains unanswered. Probably, it's just better off on a different page and in a different form. Robert K S (talk) 02:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


"Who set up the fake flight 815 wreckage? Ben or Widmore?" By the same note doesn't the only evidence of Ben planting the plane come from Widmore/his employees, the people who have the most to gain by blaming it on Ben and whose evidence would be expected to point away from themselves. So no faith in its credibility and it is an Unanswered question. "When did Ben have time to set up the fake flight 815 wreckage?" "Where did Ben get the fake flight 815 wreckage?" "Why does Ben plant the fake flight 815 wreckage?" "How does ben plant the fake flight 815 wreckage?" "What is the purpose of Ben planting the fake flight 815 wreckage?" I am not sure I am following what you are trying to say. {{SUBST:User:jdray/autosig}} 13:40, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Right, those are all poorly worded UQs. The right one is "Who planted the faked Flight 815 wreckage?" Robert K S (talk) 20:58, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
The first one suggested then? And I definitley see your point regarding them. I guess my confusion lies in that we have had two different individuals on air in show be proposed as being the ones who are responsible for the crash and there is some unanswered question as to which one of them has actual responsibility. So it would seem to me some note would be made about that unanswered question regarding those two characters unlike some theory that did not have a basis in on-air in show information such as "Why did Ana-lucia plant the fake flight 815 wreckage?" I thought you were saying the inclusion of who/what/when/where/why/how would automatically make the question "not a bad one" But anyway if no one is smart enough to come up with a wording of the question in a way that isn't "poor" as you put it then that's a good reason not to note the unanswered question (although still not sure how the first question is "poor") {{SUBST:User:jdray/autosig}} 21:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

How much does Adult Benjamin know about the Losties in his past, and how does that impact his role in the Purge, and other actions between 1977 and 2004? EleriTMLH 06:53, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Trivia

Ben is the only person fo the main characters who don't any scnene appeared in the beach camp by the survivors. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Robert h (talkcontribs) 2009-02-21T17:08:52.

Images / Fair Use

We use images under the terms of Fair Use. I have to say, I think we have an issue with this now. We have three images all next to each other of Ben on the surgery table. One would suffice to illustrate the point... and we have 40 images in total throughout the article. Its completely against fair use. We don't need two images to illustrate Ben's discussions with his captured losties in Season 3... there are many more examples of it too. We need to trim the image count. -- Plkrtn  talk  contribs  email  17:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Ben's Accent

Ben appears to have a Louisiana accent. However, he was born in Oregon and has lived on the island since he was around ten. Michael Emerson is from Iowa. How did he come to have this accent? Axemantitan 20:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

  • Well he didn't seem to spend a great deal of time with his dad, so he probably picked it up from the childcare related DHARMA workers, Olivia etc, but there is a chance he got it before the Island, and just never lost it, we haven't seen Ben between his birth and the Island so he could have been anywhere. Davie1253 13:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

1977

Ben meets Richard Alpert following a Hostile invasion on the Barracks. There have been no invasions since the truce was created - likely not long after the DHARMA Initiative came to the island but definitely plenty of time before 1974 - until at least 1977. Therefore the attack must have happened after the episodes we have seen up to this time (Namaste). You may ask why could it not have happened before the Truce? First of all, they seem to be ready for the attack as if it has happened before. They likely would have tried to create the Truce after the first couple of attacks. Second, the Sonar Fence built which is meant to keep the Hostiles out (whether or not it actually works on them), but this would only have been built after they knew the Hostiles were a threat and would have tried to create the Truce as soon as possible. Does anyone think this is way out of line? -JamesyWamesy 01:20, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

There is just as much evidence that the Hostile attack could have happened before the Truce. We don't know how many attacks occurred before the Truce was made. Also, the way young Ben reacts in the classroom seems to indicate he has never experienced a Hostile attack before. That's why Annie says to him, "Don't worry, it's just the Hostiles." Obviously, Ben knows who the Hostiles are by the time he meets Sayid. Further, when young Ben meets Sayid, he seems to have gotten over his shyness that he displayed when he first came to the Island. During the Hostile attack, it appeared he still wasn't talking to people yet. --Celebok 02:49, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Obviously, this was answered in He's Our You, as Ben flat out said he met Richard 4 years earlier, which places the Hostiles' attack in 1973. This would place the Truce somewhere between that 1973 attack and the Losties' arrival in 1974. --Managerpants 10:57, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Ya, I see that now. I retract my former statement. -JamesyWamesy 02:54, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Born in '64 or '65?

Toward the beginning of 5x10 Sayid indicated to Sawyer that Ben was 12 years old. Since its 1977 unless this all taking place at the very end of the year isnt it safe to say Ben was born in '64? and shouldnt it be edited accordingly? Besides if he was obrn in 65 that would mean he came to the island only 7 years old. He certainly looked a little bit older than that InflatableBombshelter 04:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this. He definitely didn't seem to be 7-8 years old when he met Alpert. I say this is a continuity error with the writers. -- Xbenlinusx 04:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I would say 64 as well. Also Sayid might have taken a guess as to how old Ben was, nothing suggests Ben told him he was 12. Although a pretty much useless bit of ifno given the source, Jack also said the x-ray belonged to a man about "about 40 years old". --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 08:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Ben was born in 1963. The young Ben actor said that his character was now 14 in 1977, Also Ben was supposed to be 10 in "The Man behind the Curtain" when he met Richard (This week Ben confirmed this was in 1973.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frw22 (talkcontribs) 2009-03-26T13:09:13.
  • Wasn't it once said somewhere that Ben came to the Island when he was 11 (maybe I'm imagining things)? I know this conflicts with Sayid saying he's 12, but Sayid doesn't know exactly how old he is and would be estimating. Maybe he's actually 15-16 (if my memory of the 11 years old is correct). And how do we know a year happened between his arrival and meeting with Richard? And what's the source on him being 14? -JamesyWamesy 02:54, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  • I think at this point it's all conjecture and we can't really put a firm year until more information is revealed. We know it's December 19th and in the early to mid 60's. Everything else is guess work. That said, Damon did refer to Ben as being 12 in the latest podcast that was released after 5x10. I'm not clear if he was just repeating what Sayid said though. --Anfield Fox|talk|contributions 10:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
  • It is all conjecture. Sayid saying Ben is twelve years old doesn't make it true (or canon). Canon is "Sayid said Ben is twelve years old."--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:12, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Could we get consistency with the article and the infobox then? If it's not for sure, maybe it should be shown as an "or". Thanks. --Makiwolf 01:06, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
  • To borrow an admonition from the medical profession, "First do no harm." The page read 1965 for months. Changing it because of what Sayid said or, even worse, what actors say in interviews is unjustified. I don't know where the original author got 1965 as a YOB, but until we find something concrete, we're not doing ourselves or any casual visitors any good by changing things without references.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 01:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Polar bear (Trivia)

"Both Ben and the polar bear Charlotte was investigating ended up in Tunisia."

The way this is written makes it sound as if this were a coincidence of some sort. We know from "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" that Tunisia is the "exit point".--Nevermore 09:38, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Veterinarian?

Was Ben working as a veterinarian when Sayid met him in The Economist? I remember Sayid walked into a veterinary clinic to talk to Ben after killing Elsa. Was it ever mentioned in an episode if he actually worked their? --Linus2342 01:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

There was no clarification on that issue in the episode, but we know at least he had access to the clinic and use of its equipment. Possibly, it is just part of the Others' extensive off-Island network of resources, like Simon's Butcher Shop.  Robert K S   tell me  06:22, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Ben, a Pisces?

There must be something wrong with the birth date in this article, or our beloved Mr. Linus has lied once again. In "The Incident, Parts 1 & 2", Ben mentions to "Locke" (or rather, the entity disguised as Locke) that he is a Pisces; however, according to this article he was born on December 19th, therefore he should be a Sagittarius. Sun Pisceans are born between February 19-March 20 (Sun is actually a Pisces). I checked the astrological charts for December 18 & 19 and none of his important planets are in Pisces, either. If what he said is true, then the December 19 birth date in this article is definitely wrong. --Paraluman 16:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

  • There's no way Ben wasn't born in December if he wasn't lying about his birthday occuring in "The Man Behind the Curtain". Even with the biggest stretch possible, there's no way that episode occurs, timeline-wise, in Febuary. At best, Ben lied, again. (Why ? There's the dead mother teaching him to read, and some other stuff too ... maybe he's a compulsive liar ?) At worst, it's a blooper. But I say we should leave the birthday as is for now, at least. --LeoChris 17:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
    • Both the dead mother reading teacher and the astrological sign were quick quips meant for nothing more than humor. Ben has a sense of humor, though there are apparently some that don't...  Robert K S   tell me  18:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
    • If Ben was born 2 months later, like he was supposed to, he would be a Pisces. --Alexann 03:00, 16 July 2009 (UTC

Clarification of Ben's role in the Purge

Perhaps we can clarify the phrasing of the last line of the intro paragraph that reads "After the destruction of the Initiative on the Island in the Purge, which Ben took credit for facilitating, he became the new leader of the Others."

Here's some dialogue from "Cabin Fever" which clarifies Ben's role:

HURLEY: Is that why you killed all these people, too?
BEN: I didn't kill them.
HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn't wipe out the DHARMA Initiative--
BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn't my decision.
HURLEY: Then whose was it?
BEN: Their leader's.
HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.
BEN: Not always.
Mister vijay 03:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Met Faraday?

This article states he has met Faraday. Faraday's articles says he hasn't met Ben. I can't think of any occasion Ben has met him, so shall we add him to list of characters Ben hasn't met? --Integrated (User / Talk) 15:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I don't think they've met either. Locke's group left the cockpit in "The Beginning of the End" before Daniel parachuted down. After that, Daniel never made it over to the barracks. Ben went on to the Orchid and ended up off the Island. Faraday also arrived back on the Island in 1977 too late to see little Ben. So yeah, no meeting between the two. -- Graft   talk   contributions  18:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Wait, Ben never met Charlie, right? -- Graft   talk   contributions  19:03, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Don't think so, no. He knew his name when he was captured by Bonnie and Greta. But can't recall them meeting.--Integrated (User / Talk) 18:00, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually if you think about it young Ben was in Richard's tent when Faraday was killed by his mother.

Ben's birthday can't be in December

32milesoutsideofportland

Hardly December in Oregon.

Admittedly I'm a brand new Lostie (just finished season 5 a week ago), but Ben is born while his parents are on a nature walk in Portland, Oregon. The lush forest they are in in the Pacific Northwest in The Man Behind the Curtain does not match December very well - unless Oregon has a tropical zone. I'll wager he lied about his birthdate with his lie about being born on the island.--Pittsburghmuggle 13:08, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  • Ben -- to be kind -- is an unreliable narrator. The question of the vegetation is solved by the simple fact that they film in Hawaii.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 15:13, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  • And probably filmed by a production crew that were raised in southern California, if not Hawaii, and wouldn't immediately realize what December is like further north. And anyone else involved in shooting that scene that might've otherwise known what Oregon December is like, probably didn't even know that the scene was supposed to take place in December. So it was easily a production error. Sure, Ben lies, but only if doing so is to his advantage, and I don't see what he accomplished by lying about his birthday. --Celebok 16:00, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
  • Well, at the time of writing this it's December 16th at around 1 am in Beaverton, OR which is about 10 or so miles from Portland and it's 47 degrees outside. If Ben's parents were like a lot of people here, they were the outdoors type & it didn't really matter what time of year it was to go for a hike. Like I've talked to other people about, Eagle Creek, OR is about 35 miles away from Portland & looks a lot like the area shown in Not In Portland. Admittedly, I'm used to the cold being from Indiana, & Portland winters are usually very mild, so it's very rare that I go out here with nothing more than a hoodie or light jacket. Quietpopcorn 08:56, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Someone in the Cabin?

Should 'someone' link to Jacob's enemy? All we know is that it was 'someone else' and saying it was Jacob's enemy seems speculative and contradicts 'Keep the questions open-ended and neutral: do not suggest an answer.' Even the page for Jacob's cabin itself doesn't suggest this or even mention Jacob's nemesis. I'm removing this but if anyone has a reason for thinking it should stay, feel free to elaborate. --Panserben 03:06, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

  • Remove. I don't think Ben thought the cabin was anything but abandoned.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 03:23, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
  • My bad about the link. I see that it's just guesswork at this stage.
  • As far as the entry goes, Ben most likely knows more than he shows. All he said was that he never met Jacob in the cabin. This doesn't mean he doesn't have information, or that he didn't spend time previously in the cabin. In fact, unless this is some kind of error, he knows specific details about the cabin's guest. For instance, how did he know that the 'guest' would be irritated by modern technology, or that there really was someone in the chair, as Locke and Hurley would later see? Remember the scene from The Man Behind The Curtain: Ben's reaction to the shaking, when he grabbed the chair, was amazingly fast even for Ben's standards of playing along. And he did stay in the cabin for a while after John. Bwanartalk|contrib 04:04, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
    • He did know not to play with the ring of ash, and told John not to do so, I think.--Pittsburghmuggle 22:03, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

How many beatings has this guy taken on the show??

I think that there should be a special section devoted to listing the many times that this guy has been beaten up. It's got to be far more than any other character, probably more than any three or four characters combined. He's beaten by Sayid, Jack, Desmond, Danielle... I don't know who else, it gets hard to keep track! Hermitage171 07:25, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget Sawyer!--Baker1000 23:41, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Jacob Touched Ben

5x17 DyingInBen'sArms

Jacob falls against Ben after being stabbed and touches Ben's arm. ("The Incident, Part 2")

Regarding my edit: Yes - Jacob touched Ben! See for yourself --->

Look at Ben's elbow! It was hidden in plain sight the whole time! Think about it, in flashbacks of "The Incident, p 1 & 2", our attention is explicitly drawn to the people Jacob touches (Jack, Hurley, etc) and those not touched (Juliet). We didn't notice Jacob touch Ben because it was the only touch that did not occur during a flashback! --Qwerty7412369 08:05, March 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ben Ignorant of the MiB?

I'm curious about the MiB question: Ben seems to be the only Other who doesn't know about the MiB and hence doesn't know what Smokey is. He's taken in by the Alex incarnation and doesn't connect it at all to FLocke. He doesn't understand the consequences of killing Jacob, while the rest of the Others fly into panic. Heck, Ben didn't even seem to believe that Jacob was real before seeing him. I thought for a while that maybe Ben and Widmore were just shadow leaders of the Others, believing themselves to be "in charge" and "owning" the Island while actually being ignorant if its true function. But now we see that Widmore knows about MiB and the consequences of letting him escape. So is Ben then the only one in the dark? Then why Widmore's obsession with hunting Ben, who is just an unwitting pawn? Any ideas?

EdwardLost 18:28, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Expensive Parser Call Function or whatever

The weird problem thingy I don't really understand where eplinks and crossrefs make episode titles go to just "" popped up here, so I had to change the links in background to full titles so they'd display at all. --Golden Monkey 16:25, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ben's Sideways Conclusion

Prior to my recent edit, this article had strongly suggested that Ben will (in the words of the write-up) "likely" return to his Sideways life with Alex and Rousseau, after the events at the church. I've removed such lines, in favor of ambiguity. All we know is what Ben told Locke: "I have some things I still need to work out. I think I'll stay here a while." The show itself has not presented us with anything more substantial, beyond the simple fact that Ben was last seen sitting at that bench. We have no idea what is "likely" to happen next --and definitely shouldn't be presenting any theories within the body of the article. --Jacknicholson 08:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

  • Little trivia, though: not that this stands with any authority, Michael Emerson has stated in a recent interview that he doesn't believe Ben will return to his Sideways life. Rather, he feels Ben will remain seated at the church, left to ponder the issues he has to "work out." Of course, that's only his personal theory. My apologies, though-- I think this was during the final episode of Totally Lost, but I can't entirely remember. --Jacknicholson 08:04, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Rename

Pictogram voting opposeLeave as Benjamin. This is supposed to be an encyclopedic work.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 12:40, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Pictogram voting opposeKeep Benjamin. Benjamin refers to himself as "Benjamin" Linus. --Just Sayin' 12:44, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Flash Sideways changes

Why are some people changing Flash Sideways to Afterlife? I am under the impression, we are using the creators terminology Flash Sideways unless there is specific clarification from Cuse/Lindelof, perhaps in the LOST Encyclopedia that is coming out soon. If there is no clarification, I thought we were to continue using the creators terminology. I got this impression from Plkrtn's comments on the Flash Sideways World talk page. Is this correct? --Just Sayin' JSTalk LBC LBCTalk eMail 20:16, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Just sayin', you are correct.

It is Flashsideways. For my hero, Ben, Flashsides began just before Flight 316. He gave Jack the key: do you want to be remember as a martyr or a doubter. Strange words! He killed Eli or Desmond or Eli. Ben knows how to kill. He botched a "hit" before, yet Desmond is not killed. Why did he not kill Eli? Yes, he knew about MiB from the crash. that's why he sent the spies. He never met Faraday because they could communicate freely. Of all the books to take on plane, Ulysses? He knew almost exactly what was going to happen. At first, he thought he was talking with Jacob, then MiB, and finally realized it was Faraday. This last part Ben did not like. FST has 4 purposes: 1) give jack happiness and a complete life; 2) reactivate Desmond 3)wake up Hurley, his flash began in the taxi with "JacoB" (really Faraday). YOU ARE THE LEADER NOW and YOU GOT TO DO A THING:GET JACK TO BECOME FULLY CONVINCED. 4) Stop Ben. Make sure he does not kill miB. Dogen who is a manifestation of Faraday tries Sayid. It turns out that Kate shots MiB.--Past recaptured 19:07, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

power

In the ranking of the powerful:There is Walt, numero 1. Faraday has his powers of persuasion and reward and punishment. Hurley is beyond other creature except Walt and Faraday; he has transcended life and death. Ben is next in line. He must be kept out of drama; he is evil incarnate, not pride of Satan. He is the Maldive shark of Melville's poem; his emotion do not exist; his will and intellect are purely destructive. MiB thinks he has infinite power, not even in the same league. Only when Ben kills Widmore does MiB realize his true enemy is Ben. This precisely the position that Farday wanted. There is not retreat for Mib. His choice is surely die at Ben's hand or frustrate Ben bid for absolute power by facing the losties. Ben's presence is an insurance policy that MiB will not run. He suddenly realizes the depth of Ben's evil. He recalls how Locke died.Suicide is not good enough for Ben. He had to kill you himself.--Past recaptured 18:59, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Ben's year of birth

The Encyclopedia states he was born in 1962. We say 1964 for some reason. If Sayid saying Ben was 12 in 1977 is accurate, that puts his birth in 1965. According to the "The Man Behind the Curtain" article, an anonymous source said they were asked to get cars for 1963 or later for the filming of the scene. So we have 4 years here, which one is accurate? I'm not even sure where 1964 came from.--Baker1000 20:51, November 1, 2010 (UTC)

  • December 19, 1964. That means he turned 12 on December 19, 1976. Sayid met 12-year-old Ben in July 1977. --Celebok 17:44, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
    • Right, so the 1962 date should be listed as an error in the encyclopedia article?--Baker1000 20:19, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
      • Tough call, only because one could argue that Sayid merely misjudged young Ben's age. But considering Ben did not look 14, I'd vote to declare the encyclopedia to be in error, not Sayid. --Celebok 23:36, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sayid's estimate means little. It's hard to judge a kid's age, and "12-year-old" might have just rolled of the tongue more easily. But Ben and Sayid presumably talked more right after "Namaste"'s final scene, and one of the first questions people ask a child is "How old are you?" I'd go with 1964. Sterling Beaumon was just shy of 14 when season 5 aired. Think the book used that for a reference? --- Balk Of Fametalk 12:20, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
    • That's actually a good point that Sayid probably asked young Ben how old he was. I probably wouldn't refer to a kid as a "12-year-old" unless I actually knew that he was 12. --Celebok 06:37, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Quote

There are lots of problems in general with assigning characters quotes, but I find this one particularly generic. If we wanted one for Ben, I'd go for Sayid's "He's a liar, a manipulator...a man who allowed his own daughter to be murdered to save himself... A monster responsible for nothing short of genocide." --- Balk Of Fametalk 02:28, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Michael Emerson Audition for Hurley?

Is it true that Michael Emerson (benjamin linus) auditioned for Hurley?

No. --- Balk Of Fametalk 15:04, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
Heh heh, wasn't that a Comic-Con joke? Hurley auditioned for Sawyer though, that one is true.--Baker1000 19:55, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Romantic relationship?

Well he had a childhood romance with this girl Annie.. then she died with all the Dharma Iniciative. We know he was later in love with Juliet.. but she didn't like him. Will Ben stay forever alone? lol poor dude User:HumanWreckageThatYouLove

Alex and Daddy

I think the deleted scene: 'Alex and Daddy' from 'I Do' should be added to the recap, since the flash of it in 'Dead is Dead' confirms that the scene did happen. --Villain fan (talk) 11:42, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's an interesting one that. It's a deleted scene added back into canon much like the extended press conference scenes in "There's No Place Like Home, Part 1". I think it should be added to the character articles, but not the episode ("I Do") because it wasn't broadcast in that episode. It's essentially almost a flashback, although obviously a memory from Ben.--Baker1000 (talk) 17:23, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Time with Others and Dharma

Having the Purge after the kidnapping of Alex is going by Locke's dream, since this would mean the Purge was in 1992 and the kidnapping of Alex in 1988. However I think we can sway more to the Purge happening before the kidnapping, in 1987 (as said in the Lost Encyclopedia). This matches up better with other evidence and leaves less questions. It leaves out the questions 'Who rose Alex when Ben was away and why did Ben take over after 4 years'?, 'How did Ben and Ethan get to and from the others and dharma without being detected?' and 'How did Danielle survive the purge?' Also this matches with Ben saying it was his idea to move into the barracks, because the others could have lived in the jungle after the purge when under Widmore's leadership. It also matches up with the Encyclopedia saying that Ethan joined the others after the purge. Therefore I propose moving the purge on this page to before Alex's kidnapping and taking away much of the speculation on this page of Ben going to and from the others and dharma. --Villain fan (talk) 22:35, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Moving the Purge to 1987 raises one problem bigger than any of the ones associated with the 1992 date: Kelvin. Kelvin fought in the Gulf War before coming to the Island. The Gulf War began in 1990, after 1987, and it ended in 1991. If the Purge occurred in 1987, Kelvin came to the Island after the Purge. So DHARMA kept tabs on the Swan, recruited new inmates and traveled to the Island even after the Purge? Or did the Others recruit Kelvin, just for fun? Either is possible, but both are problematic.
Meanwhile, those questions about the 1992 date aren't so serious as they may seem. How did Danielle survive the Purge? Well, how did Jacob, the Temple folk or the boar survive the Purge? Answer: the gas didn't reach them. It only hit the Barracks. It didn't even reach the Mesa - Ben had to bring his own cylinder of gas there manually. How did Ben and Ethan get to and from the Others and Dharma without being detected? Well, Ben had no trouble doing that when he was 12. So we're just left with "who raised Alex when Ben was away?" That doesn't seem a bigger issue than Kelvin's timeline. --- Balk Of Fametalk 03:19, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Basically there's problems with both dates. I use to sway more to 1992 but now I think 87 is more likely. Just lots of effort has gone to making the Purge page impartial of the date, giving the evidence and allowing the reader to conclude for themselves. So why is the character pages so bias to one theory over the other? --Villain fan (talk) 09:40, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, the character page should stay ambiguous. It has to list one event before the other, but it can do so more neutrally than it does now. For starters, there's no need for those awkward section breaks - witb DHARMA, followed by with DHARMA and the Others, and then with the Others. We can just change that to "childhood" and "With the Others." 1988 can go under "With the Others," whether it happened before the Purge or after, because he was working with the Others. --- Balk Of Fametalk 16:48, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
I rewrote the "Before the Crash" section, leaving the Purge date ambiguous. I actually put the Purge before Alex's kidnapping, not because it necessarily happened before but because it just seemed to flow well that way. --- Balk Of Fametalk 15:53, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ben's age

Wouldn't Ben's age be 44 in 2010. The epilogue takes place in August (four months before his 46th birthday). He also time traveled ten months into the future meaning he is ten months younger than he should be.

--Daniel (talk) 09:13, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds right. --- Balk Of Fametalk 13:17, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
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