Talk:Across the Sea

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Press release...

... is here. [1]  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  19:01, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I Hope

I hope that there's going to be a reason they chose the title "Across the Sea" instead of the more obvious season 1 throwback "Beyond the Sea".--Gibbeynator 11:46, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

• If I had to guess, I'd say that the content of the episode will have nothing to do with the context of that song on the show and they didn't want to merge the two completely separate things. Just my speculation, though.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  21:07, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Just a little stupid

that Jacob never wanted to leave the island, but does to bring candidates, yet Jacob prevents his brother from leaving. ?? ( not counting the fact that he threw him into " the source" light hole , turning MIB into Smokey ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trogaf (talk • contribs) .

• What's to say Jacob HAS left the Island? Since he apparently has magical powers, he could just as easily project himself in some way that allows him to interact with people. Uzerzero 02:23, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Jacob and MIB centric.

Not just MIB. (Kdc2 02:13, May 12, 2010 (UTC))

cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• • Agreed. They received near-equal screen time and emphasis. --SilentSpy 02:20, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • This episode is about the origins of both characters, and the relationship between the two during their formative years on the Island.  Theartandsound  02:28, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • There are scenes with each character apart from the other. It's centered on them both. —Josiah Rowe 02:54, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • as per above. --Bish-Fiscuit 02:57, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• --Frakkin Toaster 03:13, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• Also there was no present time Mib flashback whoosh to indicate it was from his perspective alone (MaxMoney37 04:00, May 12, 2010 (UTC))

Guest/Co-star

Anyone remember whether Lela Loren was credited in the opening credits? cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:21, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yes she was. The boy who played young MIB was not however. (Kdc2 02:23, May 12, 2010 (UTC))

Neither was young Jacob —   lion of dharma    talk    email   02:25, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Kenton Duty, previously known as Teenage Boy, is Young Jacob. --Cul-de-zack 02:28, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

So Lela Loren was a guest star and not a co-star? cgmv123TalkContribsE-mail 02:42, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yes she was. So was young Jacob. Young MIB was not credited. (Kdc2 02:44, May 12, 2010 (UTC))

Young Jacob was credited at the end, but he was not credited as a guest star in the opening credits. —   lion of dharma    talk    email   02:51, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I'm wrong. For some reason I didn't see it the first OR second time I watched it. Third time's a charm! —   lion of dharma    talk    email   02:54, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

MIB's board game

The game appears to be ancient Egyption game Senet [2]. Can anyone concur? And if so - there are some beliefs about the game that are interesting in terms of the Lost series --J.nc 02:36, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I can confirm it was Senet. I am a student of ancient history. Jicannon 03:27, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

The rules of the game Senet have been lost over time, and are now the topic of some debate. But I guess we can put that all to rest now, MiB knows them! Winegum 03:46, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Smoke Monster is Not Jacob's brother

I got the impression from this episode that the Smoke Monster is not Jacob's brother. Jacob's brother is dead, his body buried in the cave. The Smoke Monster simply took his form the same way he later takes Locke's form. Since he received all of Locke's memories when doing so, it's likely that it also received all of the personality and motivations of Jacob's brother. Perhaps a separate page should be made for Jacob's brother and for the Smoke Monster? --NeoCortex 02:52, May 12, 2010 (UTC

• When the Smoke Monster took Locke's form he didn't take Locke's body. Not to mention that Flocke couldn't kill Jacob to begin with, because there were rules in place preventing him from doing so, which we found out about more tonight - when their mother said she "made it so they can't kill each other". The Smoke Monster wouldn't be bound by those rules if he weren't Jacob's brother. Also if Flocke were not Jacob's brother, why would he be seeing visions of Jacob as a young boy in present day?--HaloOfTheSun 02:50, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• But Jacob's brother's body was left behind, like Locke's. This is what was later found to be Adam in the cave. NeoCortex 02:52, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes... that's the whole point. MIB's body is gone, but he still remains. His mother even said that going into the light in the cave would be "worse than death" or whatever. She didn't say "you die and then a smoke thing comes out". Jacob's brother is now existing as the Smoke Monster. He has no need for his body anymore.--HaloOfTheSun 03:00, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• I'm suggesting a separate page be made for "Adam" that covers the birth of Jacob and his brother until the brother's body is buried in the cave and found as part of Adam and Eve. He's a separate character from the Smoke Monster. NeoCortex 02:55, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• But fake-Locke talks about "my mother" being crazy, which would seem to be an obvious reference to the woman in this episode. It looks to me as if Jacob's brother's body died, but his spirit continued to exist in the smoke monster. —Josiah Rowe 02:57, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • Could his 'spirit' count as his memories and personality? Like how Flocke has Locke's memories and some of his personality ("Don't tell me what I can't do!") Winegum 03:31, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• The primary impression I got from the episode is that the Man in Black and the Monster are different entities, the monster was just taking on the form of Jacob's dead brother. It raises some issues with some things Locke has said, but I think it's meant to be ambiguous.  Jimbo the Tubby  talk  contributions  03:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• They are one and the same. It's like Spiderman; after he is bitten by the radioactive spider, he is still Peter Parker, but he is also Spiderman. What we saw tonight was the equivalent of Jacob's brother being bitten by a radioactive spider. He still lives, but not in his body. He lives as a shape-shifter/smokey thing.--Frakkin Toaster 03:22, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• The smoke monster didn't exist before MIB went into the cave, as far as we can tell. They didn't show any encounters with the boys at all, whereas every other visitor/resident has had an encounter within a short time of just getting to the island. I think we can just take it as given that Jacob's brother became the smoke monster, his "life" became something different, and his body wasn't needed. In that light, no, we shouldn't have two pages for Jacob's brother/smoke monster, just separate his character bio into pre- and post-transformation. MannyF 04:10, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • There is evidence to suggest otherwise, namely some entity already present on the island took the form of the dead Claudia just as Flocke as owned up to Jack that he had previously taken the form of Christian. Whatever was in the cave likely existed in some form and has simply inhabited the body of Jacob's brother. Note also the entity has consistently had to take the form of a dead body on the island (Claudia, Christian, Locke). --MixMasterMike 04:23, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
    • I was just thinking about that myself, but I think she's showing up the same way that young Jacob shows up around MIB in the present, ever since he (kinda) killed the older Jacob. I'm pretty sure dead people have shown up at times that aren't just an imposter MIB. And I'm not just talking about Hurley's visions, even Sawyer saw young Jacob, while he was standing right next to MIB. The smoke monster that we've seen wouldn't be contained in that cave. Jacob's brother became the smoke monster, not the other way around. Even when he's posing as Locke, he still talks about his "crazy mother". If he was just based on borrowed memories, wouldn't he think Locke's mother was his mother? MannyF 04:42, May 12, 2010 (UTC)
• In this episode, the "Crazy Mother" tells Jacob his job is to protect the heart of the island, which is some sort of light and source of all good (or something). In earlier (later) episodes, Jacob says his job is to protect the source of all evil (or something) from getting out. I think we're supposed to see the brother into the heart/Smokey thing as connected to that change.--Tim Thomason 04:16, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Continuity error regarding Adam and Eve

This is what I noted on the page: * When the skeletons were first discovered in "House of the Rising Sun" (which this episode shows us in flashback) they were separated and not lying side-by-side, as we see Jacob placing the bodies in this episode. (This continuity error is also present in "Lighthouse".)

Someone responed with this (I have not deleted the objection, just moved it and my reply here to the discussion page as the main page is not for debating issues): **Someone else may have moved them. Jacob could possibly have moved them at a later time.

My response *No. Not unless someone moved them, chronologically, between the events of "Across the Sea" (when Jacob first placed them there) and "House of the Rising Sun" (when the Losties first discovered the skeletons) and then put them back again before the events of "Lighthouse" (when Jack and Hurley found them 3 years after the Losties first found them).

Overall, I am firm in my belief that this is a continuity error. It sprang up in "Lighthouse" and was carried forward into "Across the Sea" but the fact that the latter shows a flashback to the original scene where the skeletons were placed highlights the error further. It is extremely unlikely that someone - even Jacob - moved them then moved them again. This is a continuity error, and an important one to note.

--Jonahwriter 03:13, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that it's a continuity error, if only because I am 100% certain they've said all they are going to say about Adam and Eve. They're not going back to it in the finale and saying, by the way, Jacob moved them slightly. --Frakkin Toaster 03:25, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Someone else just added (again) "it's possible that they were moved before being discovered by Jack, Kate, Locke". This seems to be missing the point again - It is extremely unlikely as we must look at the chronology.

• • They were side-by-sides in "Across the Sea" thousands of years ago.
  • Separated in 2004 in "House of the Rising Sun".
  • Still side-by-side in 2007/8 when Jack and Hurley rediscovered them in "Lighthouse".
    • That means someone would have moved them after events in "Across the Sea" before "House of the Rising Sun" and then changed them back yet again before "Lighthouse"? No way. This is a continuity error started earlier this season in "Lighthouse" and carried over into this episode. --Jonahwriter 05:18, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• The continuity error is that Adam & Eve's clothing was 50 to 60 years old, not 1934 to 1944 years old. In fact, nature/rock slides/Others or earlier survivors poking around all could've caused the two bodies to drift slightly apart, and it seems likely that Jacob could've wandered in there and put them back together at some point between 2005 and 2007. In fact, he might've decided to clothe them at some point in the 1950s for some insane reason, so there is no real continuity error.--Tim Thomason 04:21, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• • I disagree. It does not seem likely at all. If anything it's overstretching and making convoluted assumptions, filling in a backstory, rather than accepting a continuity error that started in Season 6. But I've said enough on this point and am not going to continue to debate it. If people want to keep adding "It's possible..." lines, fine. I've made all my points here in the discussion page about why this should be noted as a significant continuity error between Seasons 1 and 6 and I won't keep harping on. However, I DO agree with you on the clothes and I added this new continuity error. I think he said over forty years anyway, but someone might want to check his actual words and change. --Jonahwriter 05:18, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

When did The Man In Black die?

All throughout this site i see people listing the mib as dying. Did i miss something, when did this happen. It was made very clear that Jacob can not kill him so he didnt die. He never died he was beaten until he was passed out and then when he floated into the stream his "body and manhood" were taken from him like the MIB says in 6x09. Jacob can not kill mib so he never died. -- B1G CZYGS  Talk  Contribs  03:34, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• The way it was edited, it seemed that the MIB broke his neck when Jacob through him in the water and floated lifelessly into the cave. Nothing indicates he *couldn't* kill the MIB, as they both aged 40 years and Jacob was the only one who drank the magic wine. The mother said that MIB wouldn't die, but that was when he was young and she intended him to be the Protector.--Tim Thomason 04:24, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

Fake mother's death

Anyone else find it interesting that MiB killed his 'mother' in the same way that it's supposedly possible to kill himself and Jacob? (Stabbed her with the dagger before she could speak). Do you think it is the act of killing her with the dagger that has made it 'magic' or that it would just be another in-joke between Jacob and MiB to kill the other with the same dagger?

On a related note, as the 'mother' seems to utter some magic incantation when initiating Jacob as the protector, could this be the reason why being killed before speaking is important?Winegum 03:41, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

• I don't know, the MIB seemed to be the only one who knew that, and that might just be from experience. Maybe, he's not sure how it works and once tried to get Dogen to kill Jacob (who is "like" his mother), and Dogen just assumed they act in the same way (granted, we don't know if it will work on a non-speaking MIB or not).--Tim Thomason 04:36, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

23 AD

Where is this date from? People keep bringing it up on articles, but as far as I recall, no dates were mentioned in the episode. And it would be tough to mention 23 AD, because that was about 700 years before the AD/BC system was created...--Tim Thomason 04:36, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. Apparently it was a false spoiler going around. I think it's obviously not 23 AD. The fact that Claudia and her group were able to navigate the ocean on a large ship and spoke Modern American English (which has been around since about the 18th century) would lead me to assume that the events of the episode likely occurred sometime between 1750 and 1850. If Jacob was born as late as 1800 he still would have had plenty of time to bring other people to the island before the arrival of the Black Rock in 1845. --Supernik87 05:07, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure they were actually speaking English, we had some lines establishing they were speaking Latin... Kind of what they did with Naveen Andrews' Arabic in season 1. Why force actors to learn Latin? Yes, Ab Aeterno was in Spanish but Nestor Carbonell actually speaks the language. --LeoChris 05:14, May 12, 2010 (UTC)

They weren't speaking English. This was clearly a production device so the entire episode didn't have to be in subtitles. They both began speaking Latin and transitioned seamlessly into English without either flinching - clearly a production device for the audience. Latin was not spoken regularly, even among the educated, after 900 AD. The episode defiently takes place before then.--User:Jeffcutt72

Error in UQ

"Why did she kill Claudia?" should be removed from Unanswered Questions, as Jacob's mom tells us herself. She didn't want Claudia to take the twins back to the village where they'd be corrupted. Haplo781 05:10, May 12, 2010 (UTC)