He's Our You/Theories

Main Article

Theories about He's Our You

Main Discussion

Theories may be removed if ...

Stated as questions or possibilities (avoid question marks, "Maybe", "I think", etc). More appropriate for another article. Illogical or previously disproven. Proven by canon source, and moved to main article. Speculative and lacking any evidence to support arguments. Responding to another theory (use discussion page instead). This does not include responses that can stand alone as its own theory. Usage of an indented bullet does not imply the statement is a response. See the Lostpedia theory policy for more details.

Amy

...Is one of the Hostiles

• She recognizes that Sayid is not one of them, and therefore wants him gone.

• ...A step further; Paul, too, was a hostile, defected to DHARMA, and Amy killed him for doing so. Sawyer screwed up the plan to get back. remember, he had the symbol of the Ankh around his neck, the symbol of the statue. She's an other, and so was her husband, but he defected from the Hostiles. She will eventually return to the Hostiles.

• Paul is actually a hostile, or at least spying for the hostiles, but not Amy. They were having the picnic at the location they did in order to hide something from possibly both the hostiles and Dharma. Or, it may be that they were meeting up with the other two hostiles for some reason, but something at the meeting went sour, causing the the two hostiles to kill Paul, and attempt to kill or capture Amy.

...Is Amelia Earhart

• This theory makes a lot of sense, especially considering we see Ethan in 2004 with the 'Hostiles', as well as the possibility that Amy really is Amelia and both live with Ben and the Others in Dharmaville after the Purge.

• What doesn't make sense to me though is that wouldn't Amelia recognize Juliette as the woman who delivered her child? The same could be said for Ben not recognizing Sayid later in life.

• Amelia actually does treat Juliet very kindly when she comes over for book club? I think Amelia must have realized something was up when Juliet first came to the island.

• Amelia is Amelia Earhart, who was quite old in 2007, after crashing in the s.pacific with Capt. Noonan. I don't think she was anyone's mother.

• Since Amelia Earhart was born in 1897, that would make Amy 80 years old in 1977 (when she gave birth to Ethan) and 107 in 2004 (when she talked to Juliet in her house in the Barracks).

• It's possible that the Others remembered Sawyer, Sayid, Juliet,... being on the island in the 70s. They just didn't tell them. This may also be the reason why Juliet was recruited by the Others.

...Is DHARMA

• Amy is clearly DHARMA. Richard wanted justice for the two men that were killed, and he never mentioned any woman. Unless you are saying that She infiltrated DHARMA way way way back... which is ludicrous that she would marry and have a child with Horace.

• Additionally; Amy was heard screaming when confronted by others and had the sack over her head if she had been a hostile then she would have been treated better than that. Amy also believed that Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Etc. are hostiles. If she were also a hostile then she would have recognized them.

• Amy, along with the rest of the DHARMA Initiative, believe that Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, etc are the crew of a ship that wrecked.

• Defected to hostiles at the time of the purge.

Ben getting shot

• Here's what I think: Ben gets shot by Sayid but survives and is now living by a thread. Fast forward 30 years to 2007. When Locke saw Ben in the "sick bay" the survivors set up he looked A LOT worse then just getting whacked in a head by an oar (also, when Locke saw him didn't at least 1 or 2 days pass since Sun and Frank ran off? You would think he'd be better by then). I believe that he is struggling to survive both then ('77) and now ('07)
• We already know everything we need to know.

You can't change the future. (supported by Desmond, Faraday, and Hawking)

Some people are really hard to kill. (Locke, Michael)

Ben is alive in the future. (duh)

When all seems lost, help can come out of nowhere (Walt helping Locke at the Dharma burial pit, Richard helping Locke at the site of the Beechcraft.

The writers of this show love circles and repetitions and invoking earlier themes. Recall Richard showing up out of the blue and healing John while the island was skipping through time.

That is what is going to happen here. Alpert is going to walk out the jungle and heal Ben.

• Young Ben is really dead. The Ben we know is somebody else who assumed the identity of Benjamin Linus.

It wouldn't be the first time Ben (or the man we know as Ben) took someone else's identity, but it would make the previous flashback to Ben's past erroneous, and besides the obvious resemblance between the young and adult Ben Linuses makes it very unlikely.

• Ben's father clearly knows who Ben is as a child and as an adult right before Ben kills him, so it is the same Ben as a child through til adulthood.
• Ben always survives the shooting, and it is the thrust from which his evil conniving nature is born.

• How wonderfully ironic it would be if Sayid, intending to destroy Ben's evil, unwittingly created it.
• The mental and physical abuse suffered at the hands of his father would have had far more of an impact on his disregard for others than being shot for reasons he can't understand.
• Ben will survive, perhaps in the same way that John Lock survived when Ben tried to kill him over the mass grave of DHARMA purge victims. The island certainly has further plans for Ben, so this can be chalked up to "course correction".
  • Locke only survived the gunshot from Ben, because the bullet went through the spot, where Locke's other kidney WAS.

• While I do believe we will see some level of "course correction" since Ben cannot die, this case is not similar to Locke's. Locke was able to survive because he was shot where one of his kidneys used to be so the bullet missed a vital organ. Unless Ben is walking around without a heart or lung in 1977, there has to be another reason why he will survive.

• Sayid missed Ben's heart because Ben has dextrocardia.
• Jack will save Ben's life. This will cause problems between the Losties and Dharma, who will naturally wonder why Jack has advanced surgical skills.

• Juliet will save Ben's life or help Jack to save Ben's life. This leads to the Other Woman and Harper telling Juliet that Ben was smitten with Juliet because she looked just like "her". The "her" that saved his life...

• The reincarnation as a evil Ben also makes sense in the context that Young Ben was unable to lie to his father about the sandwich, while Grownup Ben is an excellent liar.

• But Ben did lie to his father about the sandwich.
  • He technically didn't tell the truth at first. As far as lying goes, he lied like a sissy. Obviously that will change later on in his life.
  • But he was a bad liar at that time. He becomes a good liar later.

• Yes he did- he said that the sandwich was for his father.

• If Ben did aide and abet a "Hostile", why would DHARMA, Jack or Juliet try to save his life? DHARMA was set to kill Sayid just under the assumption he was a Hostile, therefore, if young Ben has turned, he, too, should die. He doesn't die because we see him progress through his specific timeline (which now apparently includes being shot at young age), but how does he explain his actions to DHARMA? My best guess is that as Locke was healed, so is Ben with the help of Hostiles. Jin, wanting to save Sayid, will corroborate Ben's story of a kidnapping scenario, with Sayid disappearing without a trace.
  • They don't want to kill Sayid because they think he is a Hostile, in fact, they would've killed him more readily had they been certain that he was not one. On the other hand, it was his refusal to cooperate and share whether or not he was a Hostile and whether or not he was breaking the treatie for a good reason.
• Ben miraculously living and the Island healing him will be the sign to Richard and the Hostiles that Ben really is special and worthy of taking over the title as Leader of the Hostiles.

• Sayid should have checked Ben's pulse, maybe Jin wakes up just in time to save the day

• Is it known Sayid didn't check Ben's pulse and/or shoot him more times. Sayid has definately been known to shoot people more than once, to ensure death.

• He is seen shooting Ben a single time, and then running into the woods

• Ben always died and was revived by the Island, which is a qualification to be a leader of the Others/Hostiles. Locke, picked for leadership, has now also died and been resurrected and will now assume his place as leader of the Others, which he never really fit before his death.
• If he died, then Sayid never would have gone back in time to shoot him (it is a paradox) so he cannot die.
  • Not if there is an alternate timeline created. While Faraday may suggest otherwise, he could always be wrong.
    • I hope he is wrong. I like the altername timeline idea. Mayby the island is the only place WITHOUT course-correction? And his theories were based off of the real world. Remember DHARMA was trying to change fate (armageddon) on the island supposedly. Anyways, I was excited to see him gunned down, and maybe it explains the DHARMA signs everywhere on the Ajira time in the Island.
    • I agree, the alternate timeline fits. If Ben died then he couldt help with the purge. This may have gone down diffrent in the new timeline, hence the barracks being abandon rather than taken over.
    • Furthermore, if he did die in one timeline, that may explain why John Locke comes back alive when he returns to the Island [as in the timeline that he returns to Ben was never alive to kill him].
      • It can't be both ways. If Locke came back to life because Ben died as a child, then the adult Ben would die upon returning to the island with Locke.
        • Or adult Ben would have vanished out of existance. The fact that Ben is still alive in the present is probably significant. Also, it looks like Ben arranged for three canoes to be hidden on the Hydra Island (perhaps assuming that he and the O6 would use them). The Others certainly would not grant such a request from a complete stanger.
      • See Quantum Mechanics, Many-Worlds interpretation of Time Travel. The Grandfather Paradox. When traveling back in time, you travel to an alternate history and therefore branching from the history from which you came by killing little Ben does not make older Ben vanish. What if Older Ben (2007) and Sun find a way to travel back to 1977. Would this not have corrected the absence of little Ben in his killing?
        • First, traveling back in time doesn't put you on an alternate timeline, by conventional theory -- it puts you on the original timeline and immediately splits it, starting you onto the newly formed branch that has a different future, even if only slightly. Second, the possibility of a supernatural influence makes even well-established theory on time travel very dubious. Science doesn't recognize such a thing as "Fate", but it may exist in the continuity of Lost, which would partly or wholly obviate the need for multiple universes. If Fate exists, it's possible for there to be a "one true timeline" -- i.e. whatever happened always happened, regardless of when people make decisions and take actions that allow a course of events.
          • Science does account for Fate although not in the conventional sensebut instead through quantum mechanics. Read: Determinism. (basically particles do not have free will yet are already in motion and current motion can predict future motion/interaction with other particles)
• Ben tell Sayid in the future he is a killer to provoke him, which made Sayid shots him – that was needed to maintain the timeline, so Ben won’t probably die.
  • Well, if we're all agreeing on course-correction, it doesn't matter if Ben told Sayid "You're a kind, gentle man and I hope you find all the hope and peace in the world," because whatever was meant to happen, was meant to happen. ASSUMING, of course, that an alternate timeline wasn't created.
• It's possible that an alternate timeline was created if/when Ben died, and therefore never caused the purge, which led to a different history. Ben also gives the book A Separate Reality to Sayid. Many other books have had significance in LOST. Considering the context of when this book is presented, this is too coincidental to be overlooked. This could tie in to the different DHARMA barracks (that were very different from the barracks the Losties went to) that Sun and Frank went to in S5. Either there are multiple barracks, or these barracks are the result of another timeline. This is also very Dark Tower-ish. Jake, a main character in Dark Tower, dies in New York City one year, but comes back alive in another world, the keystone world, which is the only place that matters, much like the island.
  • We've been through this before. Sun and Frank were NOT at the Barracks. They were at the DHARMA processing station.
  • Maybe the purge is in the altered timeline and Sayid shooting Ben is course-correction.
• The island never wanted Ben as its leader, so it set forth a serious of events, that would lead Sayid to a point in the past where he could kill Ben, thus fixing the problem.
• Let us make something clear here ... In episode Flashes Before Your Eye, Ms. Hawking said that the universe has some kindda coarse correction, where she meant that when something is destined to happen it will happen what ever you tried to do!! So, as we saw in the episode of The Man Behind the Curtain that the Purge is gonna occur, this means the Purge is gonna occur what ever you tried to do. Actually we watched it happening so there is no way in earth that the purge didn't happen or will not happen. Desmond tried to save charlie several times but at the end charlie died, so I guess Sayid or maybe someone else will try to save the DHARMA but he will never save them, because WHAT EVER HAPPENED HAPPENED.
  • The timeline we saw (i.e. in seasons 1-4)- maybe that isn't the original or intended timeline. It is possible that that timeline was altered somehow (by Ben, or maybe more likely Richard or the DI seemed to be interested in time travel) and that stuff was not supposed to happen. And the events we are seeing NOW are course correction.
• Whatever happened did happen, but now the future's events do indeed change, perhaps the producers don't want us to know this, but we may actually see the alternate future unfold in the way after Ben's death as a child, season 6 will now show what is going to happen and we will have a totally different storyline, i actually doubt Radzinsky will call the swan station "the swan" after hearing Sayid tell the truth, he is going to try everything in his power to give it another name so i can already see events in the future --that are going to change.

• This is contradictory. If it happened, it happened. It didn't not happen. It either did, or it didn't! It can't be both in LOST laws.

• • Remember that Eloise Hawking said "god help us all" when they were off the island if they didn't get everyone back on the plane - She knows they are doomed if they cant replicate the same factors on the plane.
  • So what on earth is Ben doing in 2007?!!
    • He's more than likely in a coma while his past self is injured to the brink of death. It could be a very interesting explanation of why anyone ever goes into a coma. There's probably a definitive medical explanation for entering a coma, but my feeling is that 2007 Ben will awake when young Ben is back on his feet.
      • The events in 1977 aren't happening "while" the events in 2007 are happening. Ben is unconscious because Sun knocked him out. We saw this happen.
        • True, but I was just throwing something new out there.
          • When comparing Ben's condition in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" to that in "Namaste" we can come to the conclusion that he's in the medical bed for reasons other than getting hit by Sun. Someone who was ready to paddle out to the main island would not be in the condition Locke witnessed him in from a simple paddle to the back of the head. It is more likely that he is in the bed due to being shot in 1977. He is feeling the effects directly, similar to how Desmond remembered Faraday's warning however many years later.
            • That was because Desmond is the "exception". I cannot believe that people are saying that Ben in 2007 is most likely suffering as a result of something that happened to him 30 years ago. No, something probably happened to him after Sun hit him with the oar or maybe it's just a bit of a continuity error. By definition, 1977 and 2007 are not happening at the same time.
• Maybe the gun wasn't a real gun, but a tranquilizer shot. Or Ben was wearing something under his jumper that held the bullet, some pendant or maybe even a bulletproof vest he put on just in case he would get shot while escaping or entering hostile territory.
• Maybe the next episode will start with another time-zap-flash and we'll be back in time just before Ben got shot, and time will continue to loop back until Ben being shot is prevented somehow.
• What if the bullet missed Ben's major organs but embedded itself in his spine? This could then be a similar situation to Locke's leg: in the same was "course correction" seems to keep trying to damage Locke's leg the effect of the bullet could be to somehow cause Ben's tumor, hence the apparent irony in the timing of Ben discovering the tumor and a spinal surgeon falling from the sky - it wasn't irony at all just the beginning of the series of events that was destined to unfold.

• Being shot in 1977 would not cause a tumor to develop in 2004, or in any other time, for that matter.
• We can go as far as to say that Jack (being on the only spinal surgeon on the island) is gonna disclose his aptitudes who goes beyond those of a mere workman and he's gonna practice surgery on Ben's spine damaged by this bullet. He's gonna save him in spite of every nasty things Ben is supposed to do because Ben is just a child or because of his "trying-to-save-everybody-syndrom.

• • • Jack performing surgery on Ben AGAIN makes for the most delicious irony. I don't think that Jack has yet encountered young Ben in the DHARMA camp. Remember, when the flaming van hit the house, Sawyer told Jack " Three years and no flaming vans, you've been back for one day..." Just imagine what Jack's reaction will be when he learns (perhaps after the fact?)that he saved Ben's AGAIN!
• Jacob/The Island will save Ben, thus giving him the passion he has for this island.
• Let's recap: In the last scene of this episode, Sayid apparently murders Ben when he was 14. Then, the next episode is called "Whatever happened, happened". It's very clear that Sayid always shoot Ben. Either he survived and recovered miraculously or died and came back to life a-la Locke, it always happened. Note that Sayid was never fully exposed to Daniel's theories, so he did what he was always supposed to do, paradoxically thinking he was preventing the whole thing from ever happening. I think that years after, the irony was not lost in Ben, when Sayid was the first survivor from Oceanic 815 to meet him and his intention was to kill him... again.
• Young Ben being murdered will allow older Ben to flash back to the past.

• how can older Ben exist if he was killed in '77?

• It doesn't seem that anybody is entertaining the idea that Ben is lying about who he is again. Wouldn't be the first time; we all first met him as Henry Gale. Consider this constant: if you have work to do, The Island won't let you die. It'd create a paradox, so it's essentially impossible. Michael's numerous attempts to commit suicide, Locke falling five stories out of a building, Locke getting shot by Ben; all of these things were course-corrected in some way. Heck, Desmond can't even prevent the inevitable, Charlie still died and he died at the time he was supposed to die.
  Also consider this: Ben seems have a grasp on how time works on The Island, and seems to be aware of it before everybody else. For example, Ben never seems surprised when seemingly extraordinary things like time shifts happen: in the Tunisian Desert he knew what to do, and when the second plane crash landed (in the "future") Ben immediately made his way to the main island... before getting smashed over the head. And the crash landing in the future is another example: Ben knew to build that runway back in Season 3, probably knowing that he'd need it in the future when the second plane came to the island. So is it unreasonable to think that Ben knew that Sayid would try to kill him in the past so he should convince everybody that he is someone who he really isn't? Remember, Ben said he was born on The Island and we've been led to believe he wasn't... maybe he actually was.
  But I could be wrong, since death at times seems to be only a mild inconvenience when it comes to The Island, and I don't think we all have a grasp on what death means on and off the island yet.

• This is not a bad idea. It's certainly possible that we have just been assuming that little Ben is the same person as older Ben. Older Ben, as we know him, could have been someone else we've never met who just took dead little Ben's identity after he was shot, and Sayid really did kill the kid we know as "young Ben".
• We saw Ben's birth in Not in Portland.

• This could be a case of unreliable narration, if Ben is in fact impersonating someone, again. Then this would have been the birth of the identity he possibly stole.

• Don't forget that Ben, as an adult, killed his father. That alone rules out the impersonator theory.
• The characters on the show might be unreliable from time to time, but the show itself cannot be presented by an unreliable narrator; that puts into question absolutely everything we've seen and makes the entire premise untenable.

• Young Ben is dead, but there is not an alternate timeline or paradox. The adult Ben we have always known is just like Locke or Christian (two other undead leaders with powers). Perhaps this is why Widmore and Ben can't just kill each other - they are already dead. Remember that Widmore says to Ben "I know what you are." When Widmore asks if Ben has come to kill him, Ben says "We both know I can't do that" (The_Shape_of_Things_to_Come_transcript). This could also shed insight into a line spoken by Miles, who knows all about dead people: "Do not treat me like I'm one of them! Like I don't know who you are, or what you can do!" (Eggtown_transcript). Miles recognized Ben as undead the moment he saw him.
  • Interesting. But Locke and Christian both died off the Island and were revived when they were brought back. We don't know this can't apply to people who've died on the island too. But again, maybe Ben and Widmore know they can't kill each other because they have more to do on The Island.
    • Locke and Christian both died off the island and stayed dead off of the island. If Ben and Widmore were dead or undead, they would only be visible or active ON the island. They are in an alternate stream of time/history. Little Ben is 1977 is dead, future Ben who is currently with Sun is still alive.
      • Christian appears to Jack, after his death, off the island, in Through the Looking Glass.

• This goes along with the Danielle/Jin story line. How does older Ben not recognize the man who shot him when he was a boy? Just as how did Danielle and Jin not recognize and remember each other when they "re-met?"
• Jin wouldn't recognize Danielle, but Danielle could recognize Jin post-crash(whether or not she believed him to be the same person 20 years later is debatable)
• Who says older Ben doesn't remember being shot by Sayid? He knows what Sayid is capable of, and he will obviously live being shot(alternative new created timelines excluded) "what ever happened, happened"
  • But why are we assuming that Ben been shot now has not affected 2007, how do we know the next episode will not show that Ben has mysteriously vanished from the bed we saw him in at the end of "The life and death of Jeramy Bentham"?
• Ben didn't vanish from the bed. He was put in the bed after being knocked unconcious by Sun. Frank & Sun left for the main island before Cesar met undead John Locke and lead him to the people hurt from the Ajira crash.

• If Ben died in 1977, Sayid never would have been on the Island to kill him. See the many posts regarding paradoxes.

• The island will not let Ben "die". Jack or Juliet will have to save him.--Sarenaty 19:26, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
• Ben can't die in 1977, if he dies and revives, how can he grow up in ghost form. If ghosts can grow up, they have to die " again" at some point cause of aging.
• Growing UP and growing OLD are two different things. Use the movie Star Trek: Insurrection as an example. The children grew to maturity (think of it as the peak of their body's genetic structure), and then stayed there. Growing old is the breakdown of the process.
• Ben cannot die because he is alive later. Remember, whatever happened, happened. BUT, Future Ben will wake up with memories of Sayid shooting him, just like Desmond woke up with memories of Faraday coming to the Swan. The Losties being with Dharma is not ALWAYS how it happened, just like Faraday did not always go to Desmond. He went back in time and then visited Des, and didn't change anything. The Losties have gone back in time and have coexisted without changing anything, because they couldn't change anything anyway. Sayid's attempt to change will be met with failure, because again, whatever happened, happened.
• The Black Smoke Monster will heal/resurrect/revive young Ben to correct the time paradox.
• Little Ben was always meant to be shot. We don't know if Little Ben died because of the shooting. We know the island has a doctor (who coincidentally "fell from the sky" just a few days before this event) who would be able to remove the bullet if someone (Jin?) can return the bloody Little Ben back to camp. This would mean that Jack's purpose was to save Little Ben when he was shot, and then Older Ben when he developed cancer. Older Ben remembers Sayid's heartless killing ways, which is why he chose Sayid to do Ben's dirty work off the island.
• Past changing/Not changing is a lot like the button is real/not real. This season is going to make us wonder. Just because Faraday said it doesn't mean it's 100% true. His mom seemed pretty scared when Desmond didn't seem like he was going to push the button in Flashes Before Your Eyes. Past changing could be possible, it just may be very dangerous.
• Little Ben will die by Sayid's gun shot and then be "re-born" (saved) by the Island - hence Ben never lying about being born on the island.
• Did the creators of Lost ever think about all of these theories when they wrote the script?

The flaming bus

The perpetrator(s)

• Ben, or an accomplice, set the bus on fire and pointed it at the structure as a diversion to help get Sayid out of the jail.
• The Others sent the van in as a distraction. They were trying to get Amy and Ethan out because they are Other spies.
• Kate did it. She says "I don't know why everyone else came here, I just know why i did." Her statement is followed immediately by the car crashing into DHARMA village. She has opportunity granted by her assignment as a mechanic with Juliette with access to flammables (gas and oil and such) as well as vans in for repair. Her motive is unclear.
  • Highly unlikely. Kate wouldn’t even go back to the island when Jack, or Locke asked her to go & gave good reasons that it would save the lives of those left behind. She wouldn't likely chose to go back because Ben (whom she hates & tried to take away Aaron) told her he needed her help to free Sayid from DHARMA jail.
• Kate's accomplice did it. Kate provided the flammables and access to a van, but was talking to Sawyer when the van arrived.
• Juliet did it. She wanted to kill Kate by torching Kate's house because Kate's arrival is upsetting her and Sawyer's new like together. At the last moment she saw Sawyer at Kate's door and diverted the van to an unoccupied structure.

• The house wasn't unoccupied, people were climbing out of the windows when it started to go up in flames, it was Ben who started the fire to create a diversion to get Sayid out of the cell. Thats why he was waiting there for Phil to leave.

Occupant

• Faraday was in the bus, committing suicide after no one listened to him about his theories.
  • That would be a rather dramatic and overblow suicide attempt, wouldn't it? It doesn't fit with Faraday's character. Ben or Sawyer doing it to free Sayid is more likely.
    • I doubt it was directly Sawyer or Ben. Sawyer because he seemed genuinely surprised by it, I don't think he had anything to do with it. But Ben because he was down in the prison, however, I do think he had something to do with it.

Future Ben's Memory

• In 2008, when Ben is talking to Sun and she keeps asking him about Jin, he replies that he knows they are alright. Sun keeps pressing him for info and asks how he knows and Ben replies something like "I just do." Since we find out in this episode that the Losties have met Ben by this time, could it be that Ben "knows" about Jin because he is getting memories from his childhood about meeting them?

• Ben would've always had these memories. He's not Desmond. He doesn't magically wake up with new memories. IF! these events always happened, then he'd always have known.

• While I do believe your theory, considering Ben and Sayid had a lot of time together during 03-04, What proof do we have that Ben isn't special. (His history would lead us to believe he is more special than not)
• Not necessarily, since Charlotte suddenly uncovered memories of her childhood that were buried.

• She didn't magically remember them upon waking up. She remembered them after Faraday said something to trigger the memories. She exhibited a form of deja vu.
• Charlotte's mind was flashing in and out at that moment, she most likely went back to a time when she was on the island and saw Faraday- she was just uncovering an old memory, a new one wasn't formed. If she only saw him when she was a child, what are the chances she would pin Faraday as the creepy older man she remembered? It would make no sense.
• Also, these theories are based on the idea that people are remembering things as they happen in past. But charlotte remembered about daniel in the past before daniel had gone to the past.

• Remember in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham when John told Ben that Jin was alive. Ben sounded surprised. We could assume that Ben met Jin at some point during at least three years, and obviously saw him right before he was shot. So why would he be surprised? (I'm not quite sure how Ben would know that Jin was on the freighter and seemed to have died on it, he was in the Orchid at the time, the Others wouldn't know so they couldn't tell him, unless one of the Oceanic Six told him)
• Jin gets off the Island in the late 1970s and assumes the pseudonym "Paik". He marries and has a daughter. He uses his knowledge of 1980's and 90's history to make profitable investments, grow wealthy, and become an industrial tycoon. Ben knows the true identity of Mr. Paik and thus is sure that Jin will survive his Island ordeal.

• So Jin worked for himself as an 'enforcer'? Um, no! So Jin married his own daughter? Um, no!

• Am I the only person who thought Ben surprised tone while asking "Jin is alive" didn't sound completely convincing?
• Thus far Jin has been primarily been seen patrolling in the outskrts of the Dharma "safe zone" so there is a possibility (though slight) that Jin and Ben have not crossed paths. Sawyer may be arranging this, knowing that Jin would most likely just kill Ben.
• Ben may not have been surprised that Jin was alive, but rather that John knew that information.
• Ben recognized Jin (as being a DHARMA member) as soon as he first heard of him in his adult life few after the 1st crash.He has always known that Jin survived the freighter explosion. But he's surprised that John Locke have been in touch with Jin because he understands that the Island has gone back in time and that was not supposed to happen.

• No one has mentioned that after the Oceanic plane crash, Ben had his people abduct a handful of the survivors. If I remember correctly, they are the Oceanic 6 minus Sayid. Sayid was asked to go "help find my son" by Michael, but decided against it in favor of sailing around the island. Not sure what it means, just an observation. Ben Could have selected them because of their involvement in his childhood.

• This is incorrect. Ben had Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, and Jack abducted. Michael was instructed to bring them, and only them, to the Others. Sayid was asked to go by Sawyer, but Michael refused to allow it, hence Sayid, Jin, and Sun sailing around the Island.
• Although we can say he brought the 4 that were posing as Dharama.
• We know Ben needed Jack for the surgery, but his choice of the other 3 is interesting. Perhaps Ben decided to abduct them because he knows they can't/don't die in 2004. He knows that they will survive anything that happens to them in 2004, because later they will travel to his past. So, the others say "do the surgery or we will kill Sawyer"... which means Jack HAS to do the surgery, because Ben knows Sawyer DOESN'T die in 2004. An interesting metaphysical bargaining technique by Ben?
• I'm sure I remember the list Ben giving Michael being mentioned as being given to him by either "Him" or "Jacob", can't remember which, but the original list didn't have Jack (who Ben wanted for his surgery) but did have Locke (who Ben didn't want anywhere near him because he knew he was meant to be his successor)

• • Perfect. Ive thought about this and actually proposed a "Coerced-Correction" theory that goes along with this. Cool stuff. Say for instace Ben also knows when HE himself will die. What great power that is, not quite immortality, but a temporary-immortality maybe. He could take ANY risk he needed to to manipulate people, knowing that it must all work out if later on hes gotta...

• Jack was abducted to perform surgery on Ben. Kate and Sawyer were more or less bargaining tools. Hurley was sent back to relay a message. Them being the same four that were Dharma members in 1977 may or may not be related. If it is related though, Ben's surprise of Jin still being alive may indicate Ben really didn't know that he was alive (despite the fact that we know young Ben saw a living Jin), which may be a reason why he was never abducted (Ben didn't see the need to). If this is true, then obviously something really screwy is going on. But then again, Jin may not have been abducted simply because he wasn't useful at the time and doesn't have anything to do with being a past Dharma member.

• • At this Pala-Ferry abduction were they all given shots too? Or were the shots

given at hydra? I seem to remember it being at the Hydra. We need to keep our eyes peeled for something similar in Kate, Jack, Sawyer that Hurley dosn't display.

• • • The shots were most likely a sedative.
• It's possible, after 30+ years, Ben wouldn't remember every single Dharma member. When Locke told him Jin was alive, Ben may have only then thought "Now I remember the Asian security guy who was always driving around the island. That must've been Jin." Assuming he always had these memories.
  • I agree that he would not necessarily have remembered Jin, as his influence on Ben was negligible. Even Sawyer, Juliet and Miles were probably not all that relevant to him (interesting, as he falls in love with Juliet years and years later, to the point that he has his love rival and Horace's son, Ethan, killed to get him out of the way), but surely he would've remembered Sayid? Even before he shot him, you would've thought he'd have remembered him. Then again, why are we assuming that he didn't remember him? When Sayid first met Ben, Ben was pretending to be Henry Gale, he was probably genuinely surprised but didn't show it, if he was able to resist getting beaten up while showing little emotion, it seems possible that he could have feigned not being surprised by seeing his attempted murderer. Particularly if in the intervening period he found out that the Losties were from the future.

Altered Timeline

Do exist

• This episode shows there is further proof of an alternate timeline. The only reason we have to believe that they can't change the past is Faraday. With Ben getting shot in the heart, I think it's safe to say something will be altered.
  • We also have Eloise's statements and Desmond's inability to save Charlie.
  • Or it could just be that the creators want us to believe that it's an altered timeline and it's really not.
  • And Faraday could easily be lying in order to keep the others in his group from trying to effect the timeline (Perhaps trying to help out his mother in her "Timecop" role?). They manage to not effect it too much until Faraday is distracted by grief and they intercede in the exchange with Amy and the Hostiles.
    • Faraday makes no effort to stop anyone from interfering with the timeline, rather he says it doesn't matter what they do because their inevitable actions to come have already shaped the timeline they know.
    • As someone mentioned earlier, it could also be that this is course-correction. Maybe Ben was never supposed to become leader and this is the way The Island and Time itself is correcting.
  • Further? This is the first proof evidence of a possible alternate timeline.

• This is not "proof" at all.

• I don't trust the writers to have validated the one timeline theory yet by giving us the name of the next episode. Whatever Happened, Happened will be broadcast on April Fools Day.
• The main question here is, if we know that nothing can be changed in the past, and that all the events are inevitably leading to the 2004 that we have already seen, is the show really going to be that interesting? Nope. If "The Sixth Sense" told us which characters were ghosts in the first scene, and then continued on through the storyline, would the film's final twist be exciting? The answer is a big fat 'No.'

If we knew everything about 2004 (or about what happened in the 70's) then the answer would be no. However, there are billions of mysteries in 2004, and going back and time and seeing how everything really went without changing things will be very interesting indeed. Keep in mind, also, that the characters can all still die or influence the world, it just has to add up that everything they did actually happened in the 1970's.

• Ben is responsible for the killing of the Dharma initiative. What if, to stay consistent with that part of their history, Older Ben, now able to travel back in time (to an alternate timeline) becuase his younger self is dead, travels back in time and kills the Dharma initiative. This would explain how he knows to use the wheel.
  • To further validate this, the show may have started in a timeline other than the original. Lost has a thing for non-linear story telling. Obviously we learn many things fragmented and out of order. If we started in the timeline that actually occurs after what we are seeing right now, both chronologically and with respect to how they have traveled time.
    • Perhaps with ben now gone in 1977, Sawyer, Kate, Jack, Juliet, Hurley and Jin end up purging the Darmah for what ever reason. Sun and Frank have seen an old abandoned Darmah building in 2007 so we know they are still gone, what was meant to happen still happened!

Do not exist

• If alternate timelines occured, there is no reason for Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Kate, Juliet to be in the Dharma picture Christian shows Sun and Lapidus.
  • Te island is in control. There is a single island and timeframe, but the island can conjure parralel realities and merge them at its will to achieve a common goal, prevent apocalypse.
• At least 20 occurrences of time intervention have occurred, none of which resulted in an alternate timeline. In an alternate timeline model, each intervention would alter history in some way or form, but that history has been demonstrated time and again to have actually happened. These interventions include, but are not limited to:

• 1954, Daniel provides guidance on burying the bomb, if he had not, the bomb would have detonated or become radioactive, leaving the island uninhabitable or leveled.
• 1954, Locke tells Richard he will be their leader, which begins the prophecy which ultimately led him to believe it himself. If he had not done this, he would not be on the island, this itself makes alternate timelines impossible.
• 198?, Jin vanishes in front of Danielle, contributing towards her dementia (arguable).
• 1996, Desmond promises he won't call Penny for 8 years, based on his obsession with her at the time, he would not have made or kept this promise otherwise.
• 1974-1977, Daniel warns Charlotte not to come back to the island, which is the very act which makes her determined to return.
• 1977, Juliet delivers baby Ethan, without a trained doctor, the baby or the mother may have easily died.
• 2004, Desmond sees glimpses of the future, trying to save Charlie at least 4 times.
• As you can see, each of these instances were result of time travel or foreknowledge of time, and each one of them would have created an alternate reality or destroyed spacetime through a grandather paradox if there were more than a singular timeline. Furthermore, the time travel we're beginning to see now is being and has been referenced as past events throughout the first 4 seasons, so the idea of an alternate timeline is only feasible as pure speculation, as there has been absolutely zero evidence or proof of one existing.
  • I think we're supposed to see time as the 4th dimension, and put aside how we perceive time today. Everything that has happened, past, present, and future has already happened.

• There's is no alternate timeline...Ben is supposed to be leader and it's already happened; so whatever course correction has to occur is to make sure that happens.
  • An alternate timeline is unlikely. What happened, happened. In Jughead, John Locke told Richard Alpert to come visit him. He never would have come looking for him if Locke had never told him, therefore, the Losties have always been in the past, which means that Sayid has always shot Ben.
  • I agree. I feel it would be a cop-out to have an alternate time line when for the past couple of seasons, they've been strict on the 'whatever happened, happened' theme.
  • Additionally, the name of the next episode is "Whatever Happened, Happened", a hint that there is no alternate timeline, and Ben did not actually die. Although it looked like the bullet hit him in the heart, it could have missed the heart, leading to a not-quite-fatal wound. This seems like a simpler solution than an alternate timeline, and one more likely to be used by the Lost writers.
    • The thing about Ben not dying is that Sayid is a super-ninja-assassin and Ben is probably the most personal target he has ever had, it would make no sense to think that Sayid wouldn't make sure he is dead. If Ben ends up living it would definitely reflect poorly on the writers from my point of view, a clear character contradiction.
    • Whatever happened, happened actually could mean the opposite, indicating an alternate timeline, as whatever happened DID happen - Ben was shot dead, we will wait and see, the producers are probably keeping this secret. Anyway i want to know what has happened to faraday, he will have some important information.
      • Alternate timelines are endless. Each time you travel time, you travel to an alternate time line. However the events are relative to which timeline you travel to. If you travel from 2007 back to 1977, everything pre-1977 from the 2007 timeline has still happned. Now, if in 1977 you take action that would change future events, the timeline from which you came is not changed, but a future timeline you travel to would reflect these changes. There is no way of knowing in which stream of time the show began. Otherwise, they could not be unstuck in time. They would infact be an independent carbon copy of themself, able to bump into themselves during timetravel. No character has so far bumpedinto themselves while traveling time. Killing little Ben may allow older Ben to travel back to 1977.
• IF there is an altered timeline and Sayid's shooting of Ben is what causes it, then this may be the way that Charles Widmore wanted it. Or on the hand, this may be the way it is supposed to be, and the timeline we saw with Ben in charge ISN'T the way it was supposed to happen originally. When Widmore told Locke there was a war coming, I think he actually meant the war that had already happened (the purge), because technically, it had already happened, but because time travel was supposed to occur...in a way, it still hadn't happened yet. So IF there is a change in the timeline, the two timelines are this.

A. Sawyer, Juliet, and the others that stayed behind do indeed stay behind, but the other O6 survivors never return. Ben survives and joins the hostiles and brings about the purge. And everything happens the way it happened UNTIL the part about the O6 actually returning. So Ben wins.

B. The O6 do return, and Ben gets shot and dies. Widmore wins.

But, more than likely, there isn't an alternate timeline, because it wouldn't make much sense, considering Ben WANTED the 06 to come back (why would he want them to come back if he knew it would risk changing things in such a way that it could jeopardize his power?).

• I for one didn't see anything at all to further indicate an altered timeline. Ben is shot in the chest but likely not dead. He's going to need someone with medical experience to save him so that leaves Jack, Moron-DHARMA-Doctor and Juliet. Jack isn't likely to out himself by saving Ben (everyong thinks he's a work man with poor aptitude scores) and the DI doctor is a moron. Juliet will save him since she's already shown her medical skills. Ben will love her for it and since we've seen adult Ben with his infatuation over Juliet it's actually evidence to support "whatever happened, happened" and no altered timeline.
  • Why would the island bring Sayid to kill Ben only to have Jack and/or Juliet save him? Sayid is a trained assassin, how could he ever botch the killing of Benjamin Linus? That would be a poor twist. Little Ben is dead, Older Ben still exists in an alternate timeline.
    • Sayid shot Ben in the heart, and ran away. It's true that it appears Sayid fired a perfect shot, but there was no checking of a pulse, there were no consecutive shots. Beyond a hole in Ben's shirt, there was no evidence of an open wound. Ben certainly appears to be a rather weak child, it's fully possible that the shot was blocked by something or the bullet was a blank, and he then passed out from the shock. Even if Ben were killed, both Locke and and presumably Christian were raised from the dead, so we know death is not absolute on the island. It's far too premature to say Ben is dead at this point, and create a universe of complex paradoxes in order to explain what should already be obvious.
      • Actually, if you watch it again, the shot was too far over to the left to hit Ben's heart (people don't seem to realize the heart is not all the way on the left side of the chest. It is SLIGHTLY left of center). More likely, Sayid shot him through the lung, and he's just in critical condition.
• Sayid is a trained assassin who is despondent that he is the killer he has tried not to be. Although he shot Ben, he did not check his pulse and ran off. His attempt to kill Ben will have consequences. What the island was trying to do may have had nothing to do with trying to kill Ben. Or it might have, but emphasis on the trying, not the actual killing. An alternate timeline is just a way of trying to have our cake and eat it too.

• The runway could also be a clue that events always played out like this. It seems obvious that the runway was built to accomodate the Ajira flight. The only way that the Others could have foreknowledge of that crash is if one of the Losties told them that the Ajira flight was in trouble when they vanished from it.

• While I mostly agree with the single, unchangeable, timeline idea, I think it's very important to remember one thing: the entire premise of this show is the idea that there is some global catastrophe that needs to be prevented. If somebody on the show knows its going to happen, and is trying to prevent it from happening, either they would have to have come from a time in the future when it happens, or else there is some other proof for it to happen (valenzetti equation?). Either way, something needs to change so that this catastrophic event does not happen, or else this show will end with the world blowing up, and everybody's efforts were a complete waste of time. This seems very unlikely, therefore I think we must expect that somebody will find a way to change the course of known events. And it seems that events have already started to change. I think that the world we see on the island for Frank & Sun in 2007 is world who's history is being re-written. Faraday is insistent to the point of despair that whatever happens, happens. This is only because he doesnt see a solution yet; this doesnt mean there isnt one.
  • This catastrophic disaster that we keep hearing about happens in the future. There are two possibilities as far as changing that event. One is changing the past but if "whatever happens, happens" is true then that won't work. The other is changing the future by making different decisions in the present (without going back in time). Desmond is capable of this. So we can see the future change without violating the "whatever happened, happened" principle. It's just course correction they need to get around.

• I do not believe that there is an alternate timeline since we saw in Season 4's episode Cabin Fever Alpert visit Locke to try and test him to see if he'd pick the compass and same with Locke's adviser at school trying to persuade him to do the program with Alpert's masking operation. The latter happened because of Sawyer talking to Alpert about him knowing about Locke.

No, Richard visiting Locke did not happen because of Sawyer talking to Richard. That happened in 1974. Richard visited Locke when he was a young boy in the late 50's-ish. Richard was present at Locke's birth and visited him as a small boy and tried to get him to join the science programme because Locke spoke to him in the 50's and told Richard he was their leader.

Pieces of Each

• Im thinking just becasue there are MANY timelines dosnt mean that whatever happened didnt happen. Maybe there are INFINITE timelines, but whatever major events happnen have to happen. The Purge for instance is an event that probably HAS to happen. Dosnt mean that Ben has to do it though, or that its done with gas even (is it still inert in the past after being turned off in the future?), just has to happen. That dude with the red shoes didnt NEED to have scaffolding land on him. He coulda been creamed by a bus, or died in the shower...he just had to die. Remember the purpose of DHARMA (as weve been told) was to use the special properties of the island to manipulate the core values of the V. Equation to prevent the destruction of mankind. Sounds like they are at least TRYING to alter something. I think its just events have to happen, but the means to those events can be arbitrary.

Interrogation

• The belted restraints are already on Oldham's tree as the van pulls up to the teepee. Oldham has been the Interrogator of previous people on behalf of Dharma (or Horace).
  • Oldham says with certainty that "You will tell me the truth".
  • Sawyer knows that Oldham will be Sayid's interrogator before Horace decides.
  • Why would a an organisation like Dharma need the services of an interrogator?
    • Restraints are also for experiments that Oldham does.
    • Why rely on psychoactive drugs? Have they learnt that physical torture doesn't work? Theory here is that Dharma believes science can solve problems, and that is their blindspot and will be their downfall.
    • You might as well ask: Why does a science team need guns? Answer: it's more than just a science team.

Truth Serum

• Oldham gave Sayid a large dose of LSD.

• What's curious is that the Wikipedia entry for LSD states the following: "Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert considered the chemical to be of potentially beneficial application in psychotherapy. If the user is in a hostile or otherwise unsettling environment, or is not mentally prepared for the powerful distortions in perception and thought that the drug causes, effects are more likely to be unpleasant than if he or she is in a comfortable environment and has a relaxed, balanced and open mindset." I think this probably is further proof there's a good chance it's LSD. I mean, it's definitely not a coincidence the name Richard Alpert shows up in an article about a drug known to be used as truth serum in the 1950s-60s.

• Not likely. Although LSD was experimented with as a truth serum by the CIA, they ultimately discovered that low levels of cannabis were far more effective at getting people to "open up".
• The real Richard Alpert was a Harvard professor who was dismissed from Harvard after his experiments with Timothy Leary. He then went on to study Hinduism and become a spiritual teacher. He is still alive and now going by the name Ram Das. He's written many books but sworn off drugs. He now focusses on Eastern Meditation and spiritualism as a form a enlightment.

• Oldham gave Sayid a dose of the real-life truth serum Sodium Pentothal.
• The "truth serum" had no effect. Sayid was playing along for his own reasons.
• The CIA dosed African American prison inmates, Heroin addicts, and prostitution convicts with LSD used as a truth serum. This testing was part of the program known as Project MKUltra. It took place during the 1950's and 60's. It was first brought to wide attention by the Church Committee, and by a presidential commission known as the Rockefeller Commission.

• It worked alright, Sayid even said he gave the right dose. It's just that the truth was too ludicrous for them to believe.

• He was also laughing manically. Sayid was a master torturer so was probably mentally expecting a lot harsher punishment after Sawyer says "He's our you." When all he got was a truth syrum he played it off, acted dopey and prophetic and put on a little bit of a show. Sayid has been fairly straight forward throughout the show, and has probably wanted to simply be truthful since his capture but hasn't in fear his friends may be in danger if he did.

• Sayid wasn't playing at anything; he was high. If it was acid (and all the clues point that way), there's no way to fight that. One doesn't build a tolerance to LSD.

• Sayid seemed more than a little high. The entire episode he spends every ounce of energy trying NOT to cooperate with DHARMA's questionings and proddings. Why would he then feel the necessity to speak openly and honestly? The answer is, he wouldn't. He was high.
• One can build a tolerance to LSD, insofar as the ability to stay more focused and in control.

• One only builds a tolerance to it by taking lots of it and that tolerance wears off over time. it would seem problematic to assume he's been taking lot of LSD throughout the series to maintain a high tolerance.

• And it has to be assumed that if Sayid was this kick-ass Iraqi soldier/interrogator, that he would have gone through some sort of anti-interrogation training himself.

• It is highly unlikely that the truth serum used was LSD. One of the reasons the CIA dropped it as an interrogation method is that it is terribly unreliable for getting a dependable coherent "truth/statement" out of someone. Being under the influence of LSD does not force you to tell the truth, which this drug clearly did. I'm not saying that the drug didn't have hallucinogenic properties or anything, but it certainly wasn't acid. Oldham states that it is impossible for Sayid to not tell the truth while under the influence of the drug. Besides, it takes like an hour for LSD to actually take effect after consumption.

• We dont have an hour to wait for Sayid to start tripping. Also DI is a bunch of hippie scientists, in the seventies, all signs point to LSD. Also Sayid's crazy laughing and the guy saying "whoops ill use half as much next time", its at least something to that effect.
• It WAS LSD - a few drops of yellow-orange fluid on a piece of sugar.

• The liquid was yellowish-orange. Has anyone considered that it was simply Sodium Pentothal, a substance that has been used as a truth serum since at least the 1940s?

• The identity of the drug used by Oldham has no impact on the plot.

• Maybe, but given that the writers of Lost seem obsessed with the LSD experiments (going so far as to name a character after someone involved in the LSD experiments and make umpteen references to books written by someone else involved in the LSD experiments) we have to assume that they meant this stuff to look like LSD. It's probably more important to the plot that this guy Oldham is someone who knows how to tweak any pharmaceutical to get it to provide just the right effect (e.g., it could be LSD, but a new kind he invented which works better as a truth serum).

• What umpteen references? There's generally references within the show to all kinds of science.
• Richard Alpert's name is taken from the real Richard Alpert (aka Ram Dass) who was a participant in the Harvard LSD experiments, and Aldous Huxley participated in those same experiments and was also likely a primary inspiration for this whole show (via his book "Island", which also provides the name of the Pala ferry pier shown at the end of Season 2, Pala being the name of the very Dharma-Initiative-like utopian island society described in that book.) Anyway, make of that what you will. I'm not claiming anything more here than that the people who did the LSD experiments were obviously on the radar screen of the writers of this show.

Sayid's Purpose

• Sayid believed he was meant to kill Ben. Maybe, this is why the Island sent him to 1977 and not Sun. The Island has a plan for everyone. The Island's purpose is often misinterpreted though. So maybe Sayid was really only meant to shoot Ben.
  • Jack and Juliet's purpose could be to perform surgery on Ben (again) so that he'll live.
    • Why would the island bring Sayid to 1977 to kill Ben, only to have Jack and Juliet save him? If the island really does course-correct things, it would be correcting the prior actions of those on the island, not mistakes the island itself made.

• Ben getting shot by Sayid may have been necessary for Ben to know that Sayid was a killer for future reference. Reviving him, on the other hand, would still be necessary for him to go on in joining the Others/Hostiles.

• Perhaps Sayid's presence in the Flame station, as a supposed Hostile, is what ultimately leads to the security measures we witnessed in Enter 77 (e.g. the year of the initial "incursion" being 1977).
  • Good point. Leave it to that psycho, paranoid nutball Radzinsky to rig the building with explosives. I can't wait until that guy offs himself.
• What will happen to Sayid now? Will he join the others? Will he encounter the Monster? Is that all he was there for - just to kill the young Ben?

• This is not a spoiler, but a theory. I think Sayid will most likely die by the end of the season so that the DI can continue its plans for the stations. As long as they believe him to be a hostile, they have no choice but to believe that he is a spy and he's going to report back to the hostiles about the DHARMA stations. One way or another they will be content knowing he did not share those secrets. It's possible his only purpose was to duplicate the conditions of 815 so that Jack and Locke could return. Be it at the hands of the DI, the hostiles, or the monster, the island seems to want Sayid dead now.

• Sayid just believed that killing young Ben was his purpose. In reality, Ben won't die. The island isn't done with him yet, and won't let him die yet. Like in the first season, when Sawyer aimed at the heart of the Marshall and missed, Sayid, though aiming for Ben's heart, could still miss it slightly.

Oldham is Jacob

• He lives alone, away from the rest of the DI, seems to eschew technology, someone to seek out as a last resort.

• Jacob isn't a part of Dharma Initiative, he's the leader of the hostiles/others. And for that matter, Jacob was around before there was a Dharma Initiative. Richard knew who Jacob was back in 1954...and its probably safe to assume that Jacob was around long before then too. And Jacob would know that Sayid wasn't a hostile. And for that matter, he would probably know exactly who Sayid is and where he is from.
  • Richard makes no indication that he knows who Jacob is in '54. He just gives a look to Locke when he mentions him (was it confused or surprised? That it don't know)

• • • • Are we seriously starting this argument again? Richard knew who Jacob was in 1954. If he didn't, Locke's mention of Jacob would not have gotten him a pleasant conversation with Richard and a cup of tea.

• Eventually we'll be introduced to Jacob. Everyone's just hoping they'll be the first to claim the theory. I think with Oldham, the producers were just toying with the viewer leaving random clues. I definately noticed the lack of technology as well.

• You forget about the record player that was running when they arrived at his tent with Sayid.

• That was an old turn crank record player. Around for a long, long time. Net exactly a technological feat.

• Jacob's gone, for good, already. When Christian was ressurrected he assumed Jacob's role (heeeellllp meeee) and usurped power. Now Locke has come back in a similar way to recapture that control. Jacob probably came to the island as a dead guy too, and is already gone.
• I think there will be no mistake when we meet Jacob.

Course Corrections

• Sayid ends up on the island due to a course correction. He originally had no intention of returning to the island, but instead, his course is corrected by being arrested and ending up on the same plane as the rest of them that are returning.
• Ben will end up alive again due to some type of course correction. Some type of course correction may be what is responsible for the apparent revivals of those known to be dead, such as Christian Shepard and John Locke. I think the producers have stated there is no literal resurrection of the dead on the island, yet we have seen in the case of Christian and John, they are more than mere ghosts, and are physically present and alive. In this type of course correction (as opposed to how we usually see it in which and event that is supposed to happens will happen one way or another) the course is corrected by something in the past happening to correct it, essentially causing the dead to cease being dead, and be alive again.
• I think everyone is getting this "course correction" thing wrong. Whatever happened, happened means everything any of the losties are doing has already taken place. Nothing they do needs to be course corrected. Course correction only applies to Desmond as he is "unqiely and miraculously" special. Only desmond can change ANYTHING weather past, present, or future, though anything he changes will eventually correct itself and the outcome will be the same as if he had never done anything.
  • The only reason Course Correction had only applied to Desmond before was because he was the only one with knowledge of the future. Hawking was just letting him know not to bother trying. Now we have quite a few people with knowledge of the future.

Ann Arbor, MI

• Ann Arbor, Michigan is where the DeGroots, founders of the DHARMA Initiative, are located. We found this out in the Swan's orientation video.

• The people who were the original founders of Dharma are the people that Ben had Sayid killing, and did not actually work for Whidmore. Whidmore and Ben, though both feel like they are up against one another, are actually fighting for the same cause and don't even realize it.

• Agreed, Its exactly what he wants. Make them fight amongst themselves...Ben and Widmore are both trying to save Jacob/The Island from each other. They were too caught up to notice the REAL bad guy has already slipped onto the island and assumed the power role (Christian Shepherd). Thats what the "Help Me" is all about when Locke first visits. Ben still has no idea of Christian being in Jacob's cabin and assumed Locke got the orders from Jacob.

• • I personally believe the people Sayid was killing were other former Hostiles who supported Widmore/opposed Ben, and were banished from the island by Ben. Now Ben wants them dead, so that Widmore stands alone.
  • The people that Sayid killed are pretty young to be the FOUNDERS of DI. The founders should be a lot older...
    • They are ex-others or ex-DI that leaved the island. With them dead there are less oportunities to find it.