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Everybody Loves Hugo
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Why Desmond Hit Locke

Deja Vu Flash

Desmond needs Locke to have a near-death experience like himself and Charlie to show him the existence of the original timeline. Support:

  1. "[He] just need[s] to show them something."
  2. He's matching Charlie's dangerous stunt.
  3. Desmond wants Locke to regain his ability to walk by getting him to a hospital where spinal super surgeon Jack can work his magic. This will open his eyes à la Desmond, Charlie, Hurley, Faraday, etc.
  4. Locke regained his ability to walk in the first season: it was the impact from falling off the plane. A similar impact will take him back to that moment.

(Lost is presenting us with another dichotomy or yin/yang scenario. There are two ways for the FST Oceanics to connect to their OT timelines:

Love
Pain, brutality, near death experience)

To Kill Him

  1. Since Desmond's mind is aware of two time-lines and he thought Man in Black was the real Locke, he wanted to take revenge on Locke for throwing him into the well in OT.

He did not appear angry or distressed when he ran down Locke. He seemed to have a very good reason for doing it.

  1. He hit Locke with the car because he believed it was MiB.
  2. Fake Locke comes to the island in the form of real Locke. Thus Desmond killing real Locke would prevent Fake Locke from making the transition. Fake Locke realizes this so he tries to kill Desmond by tossing him down the well.
  3. In the island reality, MIB IS John Locke; Everyone on the island has an alternate self in the alternate universe; So, in order to trap the MIB (John Locke) on the island, Desmond has to remove John Locke from the alternate universe to keep MIB from being able to exist there;
  4. Killing Locke in the FST is also necessary to reconcile with the OT where Locke is dead.

Assisting MiB's Plans

The FST takes place in 2004. fLocke is trying to leave the island in 2007. In order for the Ajira plane to carry fLocke to freedom, everybody from the OT who is accompanying him must also be on the FST Ajira flight 316 in three years time. One plane will survive and the other will fade out of existence as the universe course-corrects. By awakening the others, Desmond is serving the MiB, because their desire to discover the truth about their island memories will lead them to board Ajira flight 316, since many of them remember that particular flight as the way back to the island.

Fake Locke Cannot Leave the Island

  • Fake Locke will never be allowed to leave the island. With Michael's appearance we learned that the 'voices' are those trapped on the Island for wrongdoing. The appearance of the mysterious boy earlier in the season now has some value when he said "you broke the rules". The boy understands what Flocke is trying to do, but Flocke is bound to the island, just like those who have done wrong before. Whether or not you can be absolved of any wrongdoing is still uncertain, however because Flocke has murdered and manipulated so many, he cannot leave.
    • The boy never said "you broke the rules", he said: "You know the rules".
      • 6.04 The Substitute BOY [to Locke]: You know the rules. You can't kill him.
    • Flocke's "evil" is why he is imprisoned on the Island. Its not so much what he did as what he was as to why a prison was made for him.
      • I think i recall Shannon hearing the whispers, then Walt appearing, even though he was very much alive. Isn't there a chance Michael is lying?
          • Michael is lying about the source of the whispers. Whispers are heard for the first time in Season 2, Man of Science.. and Abandoned. The first 3 instances of whispers are followed by a sighting of never-been-dead Walt and his backward words of warning. Appearances after whispers are manipulations toward certain actions and outcomes. (An opposing force caused Walt's messages to translate backwards and uninterpreted--'don't push the button, the button's bad' and 'they're coming and they're close'.)
          • In Season 2, whispers are heard: a) right before Cindy is secretly taken by the Others. (The Other 48 Days); b) right before Jack, Kate, Michael, Hurley, Sawyer (darted) are surprised by the Others (Live Together, Die Alone, Part 2).
          • Whispers are a distraction preceding manipulative words. That's why Ben told Rousseau: "if you want your child to live, every time you hear whispers, you run the other way." (Season 5, Dead Is Dead) Rousseau survived the Others for many years following this advice.
        • This could be either because Walt is "special" in some way and can project himself/talk to anyone, anywhere; or it was MiB impersonating Walt.
        • The whispers are those who have not "moved on." When people are projecting themselves, we are already into the sci-fi territory. It is possible that the act of projecting yourself, like Walt did, had some sort of parallel/alternate "dimension"-type effect, and allowed the whispers to bleed through into reality.
    • This theory revives the discredited "island as purgatory" theory. See, e.g., Purgatory (debunked theory). Assuming he is not lying to Hurley, if Michael's comment is to be interpreted as stating that the whisperers are "lost souls" seeking redemption, this would be a MAJOR revision to the Lost canon.
      • Not really. They also said there'd be no time travel. I think, however, that the producers were completely truthful. Much like what Flocke says to people, you MUST pay attention more to the wording than the meaning you take from it. All they really said is that the crash survivors are NOT in purgatory. That is still true.
      • Like Hurley said, those gone are more reliable than those who are alive. There doesn't seem to be a reason why Michael, who went back in the island to sacrifice himself in order to redeem himself, would even lie to Hurley. He even told him not to get himself killed, why would he do that? How would the souls that are lost on the island even seek redemption?
      • The discredited theory is specifically that all the characters are dead and the island is purgatory. That is different than the theory presented here, that the island serves as purgatory for some of the characters, such as Michael, who are unambiguously dead.
        • The Purgatory idea provided here and by Michael is that purgatory, or the inability to move on, is not a place (island) but a state of being
  • MIB won't be able to leave the island while Jacob or a Jacob replacement exists, so he needs to get everyone killed - not by his own hands off course - to proceed with his plan.

Hurley's Visitors

  • The only dead people who have appeared to Hurley are those who have killed on the island. Hurley has been visited by Charlie (killed Ethan), Eko (killed an Other), Anna Lucia (killed Shannon), Michael (Libby & Anna Lucia). Hurley has also been visited by Jacob, who we don't know to have killed anyone, but Jacob may be appearing to Hurley for different reasons.
  • He talked to Richard's wife. She never came to the island.
    • Hurley can only talk to people who have not "moved on". People such as Michael, Charlie, etc. have not "moved on" due to their killing. Richard's wife may have failed to "move on" for another reason.
      • There are two reasons for spirits not moving on. Either A) following Egyptian mythology they have not figured out how to successfully navigate the afterlife to reach peace or B) The Island is not done with them.
        • Michael told Hugo that he couldn't "move on" because of what he'd done, clearly referring to his killing of Libby and Anna Lucia. That could relate somehow to the island not being done with them, but that's just speculation. All we know at this point is what Michael has stated, that he's prevented from moving on because of what he'd done.
          • This might explain why Libby doesn't appear to him. She never did anything wrong so her body has moved on.
  • His friend Dave has visited him as well
    • Dave was actually MIB trying to get Hurley to commit suicide because he knows how important Hurley is to Jacob.
    • This definitely fits into the profile of the MiB as he uses disguises and fear tactics. Convincing Hurley he is crazy is similar to convincing Richard the island was Hell

........It is reasonable to assume that all of the dead people who make an appearance on the island --including Jacob and Richard's wife -- are incarnations of Flocke. We know from the story line that Flocke is capable of assuming the forms of dead people. He assumed the form of Ben's island adopted dead daughter to manipulate Ben into following Flocke. He assumed the form of Jack's dead father to manipulate Locke and Ben into moving the island and establishing the conditions which would make his pan work. And he assumed the form of dead Jacob to manipulate Hurley into doing things which served Flocke's interests. In short, all of these characters are moving events in a way which suits Flocke. And the most impresive incarnation is assuming the form of Michael to convince Hurley to stop Ilana from destroying the plane and then to lead all of the remaining candidates to Flocke's camp. He is the master manipulator but like most manipulators he cannot see the whole picture.

  • Except we have already been told by Ilana after Jacob was killed, that MIB can no longer change his face. So all visions hurley has seen since then must be actual visions of the dead.
    • Not true! Look at the facts established by the storyline. Remember when Flocke took Ben to the temple. At the time, Ben thought Flocke was Locke risen from the dead by the island's miraculous powers. At the temple, the MIB changed his appearance to that of Ben's adoptive daughter who then scolded Ben and warned him that he should follow Locke or face the consequences. Bottom line is that Ilana is wrong and her staements were designed by the show's writers to mislead the audience. Given the fact that we know the MIB in Locke's bodily form can change his face, the real question becomes: Who led Ilana to believe that the MIB can no longer change his face? The only person who would want to perpetuate that falsehood is the MIB.
      • The vision of Alex underground happened before Jacob was killed by Ben. Ilana said that now that jacob is dead, he can no longer change his face.

Taking Flocke's Extended Hand Carries Significance

  • Flocke is often extending his hand to people (he's now extended it to each of the candidates). It is very obvious each time it happens, so it is not a coincidence. However, nobody had actually grabbed his extended hand until Desmond. Maybe the rules of the island are that MIB can't harm (or even touch, for that matter) a candidate, unless they willingly "follow him," as signified by the candidate literally taking Flocke's hand. Since Desmond took Flocke's offered hand, Flocke was able to harm Desmond (i.e. push him down the well). Desmond probably knew something like this would happen and knowingly took Flocke's hand realizing what it would allow to happen.
    • The extended hand is simply a depiction of the choice being offered to follow MIB, or join his side. There are two sides in a war both trying to convice people to fight for their side. This extended hand is a common event, but it is not some rule or anything like that. It's just MIB's method of trying to appear as though he can help those who he offers his hand to. It's part of his con, to gain trust, thats all it is.
      • There is definately significance in taking MIB's hand/being touched by MIB, as there is by being touched by Jacob (Richard was touched by Jacob and received eternal life). It is very obvious each time FLocke extends his hand to someone so far in season 6. Also note that when Locke fell down the well to turn the wheel and broke his leg, MIB appeared as Christian Shephard and spoke to him. Locke then extends his hand to MIB and says "can you help me up?". MIB replies "No,I can't" meaning he cannot/doesn't want to touch him. There must be significance in this.
        • Reaching out the hand is very likely significant, but we do not know that Christian was the Man in Black and not the spirit of Christian. It was most likely the spirit of Christian since Claire identified both Christian and the Man in Black as her friends, thus being two separate people.
        • Also, Christian could've just wanted Locke to do things on his own, including getting up under his own power.
        • The hand extension bears disturbing similarities to Darth Vader's hand extension to Luke in THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

FST CONSCIOUSNESS TO THE RESCUE!

  • Desmond is trying and eventually will force Locke's FST consciousness into the OT. That way Flocke become Locke again but merged with the original consciousness of the MIB so that he is the MIB but with consciousness of Locke. Locke is going to come back as Locke. Especially because of Jacks "Yeah, I know Locke, and I wouldn't give up on him yet" line during the Season 5 finale. This way, Jack will become the new Jacob, and Locke is the new MIB, but instead of warring with each other, they will peacefully coexist. Black and White. Yin and Yang.
    • He is just trying to make mostly everybody on Flight 815 aware of the other side by making things happen like they did in the original timeline.
    • Flocke cannot become the real Locke. He has not taken or possessed Locke's body. He has simply taken his form. Remember - they made a point of showing Smokey walk by the real Locke's body when he looked like Locke. They've even buried the real Locke. FLOCKE IS NOT LOCKE!
      • This is true; however, MIB does have all of Locke's past thoughts and memories. He is, in effect, the real John Locke plus MIB's personality on top of it (or merged with it, if you prefer). Remove MIB from that equation and you are potentially left with the original Locke.
        • Remove MIB from that equation and the equation is broken. Remove MIB from that equation and the real John Locke is still 6 feet under.
          • Locke's -body- is six feet under. Read more carefully. This theory refers to the transferring of a consciousness. And it doesn't break anything. If you remove "1" from "1+2", you're left with just "2".
        • The MIB, like Jacob, seems to have a thorough knowledge about the lives of all the candidates, so there is not sufficient cause to assume the MIB actually has Locke's thoughts and memories.
          • The MIB was able to state to what Locke's final thought was before he died. There's no way he would have known that otherwise. This, combined with him uttering such characteristic John Locke phrases as "don't tell me what I can't do" indicates that he does in fact possess Locke's thoughts and memories. It makes perfect sense as the MIB in his smoke monster form has always appeared to be reading people in a very similar fashion.
        • But, MIB does use words that the real John Locke did; for example, "don't tell me what I can't do." Isn't that a hint that the real Locke is still trapped somewhere in there? How is it that there can be a clone of the same body anyway? Maybe something to do with a time traveling Locke.
        • MiB could only effect his 'loophole' plan by taking the physical form of a person. He did say there were certain things about John Locke and his attitude towards the island that made him different. In order to deceive/convince others he needed to behave like the real John Locke sometimes and the "don't tell me what I can't do" attitude is very much like MiB's nature against Jacob. Should the FST John locke be drawn to the island because he sees himself as being able to walk in that timeline, or should he see his death and Flocke; the decisions he makes will be the true game changer.
  • It is possible that FST Locke dying could cause him to resurrect in the OT. All the jokes that Damon Lindelof and Carleton Cuse keep making about a "Zombie Season" could actually be a hint of this happening. Seeing Locke's hand come out of the dirt a-la-"Kill Bill vol. 2" would be classic!
  • He is trying to recreate their most important moments at which point they'll remember their island memories. When Desmond's car went underwater Charlie's scene was recreated which made Desmond remember some memories.Hurley's date with Libby and the kiss made him remember his memories. Similarly he is trying to make Locke remember his island self by leaving him on the road with his back broken.
    • Then Desmond is pretty crude...and I thought it was about love. You know...meeting the woman you love.
      • It's not about Love. It's about what makes everyman tick. Some have that with love, others have that with drowning (desmond and charlie), and others have it with a traumatic incident such as coming very close to dying.-
        • They've already stated that it can be Love or a neer death experiance that allows you to get a glimpse of the other side.--WhyDidntUKnow 16:42, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Is it possible that the minute Oceanic 815 crashed, John Locke died and MiB took over his body right then and there? He was just planting seeds and waiting for the right time to escape and kill Jacob? This would explain his love for the island and why he neverwanted to leave. Thoughts?
    • No, John Locke left the island by turning the wheel. If MiB was Locke the whole time, he would've accomplished his goal of escape and there would've been no reason for him to return to the island.

Libby

Why did Libby choose to be in Santa Rosa in the FST?

  • Because she was seeing memories from events that never took place. She thought she was losing her marbles.
    • Counterpoint: She said that those memories came rushing back recently upon seeing Hurley on TV. She could have already been in the institution for another reason when this occurred.
      • No, She said she checked herself in because of said memories. That's how she could voluntarily check herself out as well.
        • You don't check yourself 'in' and 'out' of a mental hospital. You check yourself in to their care, like Power of Attorney, not in to the hospital like a hotel. The only way you can be checked out is for them to allow you out because you allowed yourself to be a ward of the hospital.
          • Actually you can, you check yourself in because you feel you need help, if you don't feel you need that help anymore, you can check out.

Desmond's Master Conundrum

Desmond is proved to be invincible and unable to be defeated. He has incited fear in John Locke, and poses a danger to Flocke's plan to leave the island. Flocke is unable to survive higher levels of energy. The young child smiles because Jacob is winning. Winning the war of course. If one is able to actively leave the island, then that person takes on the role of Jacob. Jacob shared the island with others while MIB wants to prevent that.

  • Desmond being "invincible" is outlandish, and there is no evidence to support this theory.
  • Desmond is not invincible. He just doesn't care about the OT any more, because he saw a way cooler life...and that's why he's so lethargic.
    • You don't mean 'lethargic'. You mean maybe 'uninterested' or 'nonchalant', but not 'lethargic'.

After OT Desmond's visit to his FST self's mind, both Desmonds now have all memories of eachother. That made TST Desmond purposeful and driven (as he knows he has to do something) and OT Desmond non-chalant and agreeable (as he knows that some kind of "fate" is leading him to do what he has to do and his resistance is futile.)

  • Remember that Daniel told Desmond in a previous episode ("The Constant") that Desmond was his constant. Desmond said that he needed to look at the plane's manifest because he had something to show them. It appears as if Hurley, Jack, and the rest of the candidates may also have "constants" and that finding these constants may give them clues to the OT, as we saw when Hurley kissed Libby (Desmond wanted to show Hurley that Libby was his constant, which is why he encouraged Hurley to speak with Libby). I think Desmond is trying to show everyone that they also have "constants."

The kid in the jungle

  • The child is Jacob. The child is MIB. Every man balanced their scale between light and dark, good and evil. Jacob is pure light and pure good - and as stated before, MIB is pure evil. MIB is missing a body, he mimics other bodies when he is not in the form of smoke. He stated that Jacob (the devil as he stated) STOLE his body. Some how this child, Jacob\MIB combo, eventually (probably when he gains the position as island protector) let his dark side split from himself into the form of the black cloud. And instead of battling between evil and good within himself, he battled as good against the darkness. This explains why MIB cannot kill Jacob - because they are one in the same. Also, Jacob and MIB are Aaron. MIB says that his mom was crazy just like Aarons mom. He goes on to say how that caused a lot of problems that could have been prevented. All the work MIB has done to get Aaron off the Island and out of the care of Claire is him trying to prevent what happened so that he never gets trapped.
    • I liked where you were going until you said Aaron was the same person too. That's a little too much, don't you think? I mean, how could he be?
    • I, also, like your theory, but not the Aaron part. Jacob and MIB are the opposite personalities of the same person. Jacob stole MIB's body in the sense that Jacob was able to extract the MIB personality from himself and place it into another body. That's why Jacob and MIB cannot kill each other, they are each other. Dissociative Indentity Disorder with a twist--the negative personality can be exorcised. (Think Fight Club--Ed Norton's character, because of mental illness, believes Brad Pitt's character is a separate person, rather than a distinct personality of his own being. What if, by some island "magic" he could cause the Pitt character to really be a separate being?)
  • The Kid seen in the jungle by Man in Black and Desmond is little Charlie. He's happy to see his Daddy (Desmond).
    • Man in Black tells Desmond to ignore the Kid because he knows Desi will 'sense' who the Kid really is.
  • In a previous episode the Kid tells Man in Black, "You can't kill him". The 'him' he was referring to was Desmond.
  • The kid in this episode is not the same kid as before. The kid in The Substitute had bright, blond hair. This kid had darker, dirty hair, and it did not look like the same actor, at all.
    • It was the same actor - same face, eyes and eyebrows, just his hair looked a little darker - but it is dirty blonde not bright blonde.
    • IMDB confirms that it is the same actor. So his different hair color means something. i won't link to IMDB because there are spoilers there. But it is the same actor.
      • There are two distinctly different kids that have appeared, firstly a younger Jacob (blonde/yin) and secondly a younger MIB (brunette/yang). MIB clearly did not want to face his younger self, hence imploring Desmond to ignore him and becoming quite agitated with his younger self's presence. MIB has clearly strayed from the path he was born to fulfill, i.e act as co-caretaker of the island with Jacob, and does not like to be reminded of his once innocent and pure self (albeit however long ago that was). Previously (...on Lost) younger Jacob had to remind MIB: "You know the rules" to ensure that he doesn't break any protocol whereas younger MIB simply said nothing to his older self, seeming mildly amused and showing slightly bemused non-approval to what he had become. Jacob and MIB were the original 'special' kids and brothers of sorts, but their paths have deviated a la biblical Jacob and Esau, as well as Cain and Abel, with MIB being the new age Cain after having a heavy hand in his 'brother's' death despite not actually holding the knife himself.
        • The Mysterious Boy is the same boy Sawyer and MiB saw earlier in Season 6. In Everybody Loves Hugo, he appears to have aged and grown. Possibly a reincarnation of Jacob.
          • It's only been a couple days, Island-time.
            • He's a very mysterious "boy" that has a lot of knowledge about the island, maybe more than everyone except MiB and Jacob, conventional rules (i.e. "only a couple days passing") most likely do not apply to him.
      • The Mysterious Boy only shows himself to candidates; that's why Richard wasn't able to see him, whereas Desmond did see. That means Desmond is the last recruit and new candidate to replace Jacob. Also there's a subtle look on his face while he's looking at Desmond, which can be inferred as this: MIB does not actually know everything, though it seems he does; and that'd be the twist.
      • Desmond Hume is not a candidate, however he is a "Constant", a link to all candidates, be either bringing them to the island (failed to press numbers in time, leading plane to crash) and now in Sideways Flash bringing the Candidates together (ordering flight manifest from George). He is also linked to the island through the Widmores (Penny, Daniel, Eloise, Charles). Although not a Candidate, certainly a crucial piece of the puzzle, so the Island allows him to see the Jungle Kid.
        • Desmond would almost be acting as a gatekeeper to the Island, making sure that whomever needs to be there finds there way.
        • The kid smiles because this time MiB's actions are going exactly as planned, and the constant, Desmond, is doing exactly what he is supposed to and going where he is supposed to be for a reason.
  • The kid is a young MIB. While in the jungle he appeared to be grasping a walking stick, similar to the one FLocke was whittling earlier.
    • The kid was not grasping a walking stick, he had his hand on a tree.
    • The kid is MIB's lost humanity. He was tricked into his imprisonment after doing something he believed to be right, probably having to do with love. Now MIB is being haunted by what he was now that he has a permanent shape and ran so far away from what he was.
      • And the blond version of the kid is young Jacob - so that blond kid and dark-haired kid (Jacob and MIB) are twin brothers, who always had a reason to be rivals and have been playing "the game" since then. Now, when the blond kid appeared to FLocke he had to stop his plan of killing Sawyer, while when the dark-haired kid appeared to him, he went on with his plan to get rid of Desmond
  • The kid is Claire´s son, Aaron, who was born on the Island. Aaron is the last remaining piece in the puzzle because he had to return to the Island. When the kid says "You know the rules, you can´t kill him" he obviously refers to Jacob, who cannot be killed. He will always find a replacement.
    • No, he was referring to Sawyer. Sawyer was with MiB at the time, and MiB can not kill Sawyer because he's a candidate.
    • I hope it is Aaron. Because if its yet another new character we haven't seen before this season it seems like a cop-out by the writers. The endgame of Lost should rely on clues and information present since season 1. If this boy was in the plan all along, why haven't we seen him before?
  • MIB and Jacob are the same person. The reason they are physically split is due to taking part in a huge electromagnetic event on the island a long time ago and Jacob simultaneously being sent to two different timelines, with one of his "selves" (MIB) losing the Jacob body in the process and turning into a being of tangible electromagnetic energy. The MIB and the Jacob we see now are are Jacob from those two different timelines who have rejoined into one timeline, the OT. The reason MIB is trapped on the island is because if he leaves that timeline, he will gravely endanger both.

Hair Color Explained

  • The Mysterious Boy is a pre-born Jacob. The Mysterious Boy could be reincarnated as any of the Candidates and takes on some of the appearances of them in his pre-born state. When in the presence of Sawyer he was blonde. When in the presence of Desmond he has brown hair. When he comes in the presence of Kate, she will be female.

Ben vs. Desmond outside school

  • In the FST when Ben is questioning Desmond outside the school, he obviously makes direct eye contact with the Oceanic Flight 815 manifest either in Desmond's lap or passenger seat.

Ben also appear to remember something, he clearly started to stutter and mumble "mmh" sounds when first talking to Desmond.

  • I think Ben was worried he had a snazzy dressed paedo on his hands to deal with.
    • Which can also explain the anxious glance at Desmond's lap.
  • Desmond says that his son's name is "Charlie" (a) because he has conscious memories of the Original Timeline (b) because it was the first name that he could think of, since his latest adventure started when he met Charlie (c) Desmond always intended his first born "Charlie" regardless of encounters with Charlie Pace

Hurley's Sack

  • The sack is the same sack found on Adam and Eve in series one and contains the black and white stones.
  • After Ilana blows up, Hurley is seen going through her personal effects. He stumbles upon a sack containing white stones. One for every Candidate left on the island that Ilana needed to protect.
    • On the white stones are the names of the Candidates. Written in black ink.
    • Yes, earlier on in the season we saw Locke throw a stone into the ocean saying it was an "inside joke."
  • Inside the sack are Jacob's ashes, which Ilana previously collected in The Substitute.
    • Most definitely the sack with Jacob's ashes and maybe some other ash. It cannot be little stones with names on it because Ilana was a bit vague on who the exact candidates were, at least with the Kwons.
      • This one's easy: It's Jacob's ashes because it's the same sack that Ilana used to collect Jacob's ashes. How do we know this? The producers set up the shot by establishing that Hurley was looking through Ilana's possessions, including a book with what appears to be Russian written on it (we've seen/heard her speak Russian before). Hurley sees the ashes and thinks that it will be his way to protect himself from MiB. According to the story so far, since Dogen is dead, the ashes don't work anymore (see the Temple Massacre), but Hurley may or may not know this. The sounds you hear when the sack is being picked up or used are the silver beads on the end of the ties used to close the sack. If you watch it in slo-mo, you can clearly see the beads.
        • The Kwon in question of candidacy is Jin for sure. Jacob has been watching them since they were little children. At that point Sun's last name was Paik. Jin is the candidate.
          • However, Jacob touched them both on the day they were married, meaning when they "became" candidates they're last names were both Kwon.
          • Perhaps Jin and Sun are considered to be one character (like Rosencratz and Guildenstern)
          • What if the Kwon in question is their DAUGHTER? Maybe Jacob touched both Sun and Jin in order to make sure they could generate a daughter who could become a suitable candidate.
  • It can´t be ash because you could hear the stones thrum around.
    • After re-watching the scene with the sound on max, you're right, there are some faint stone moving sounds.
      • That's true BUT, if you watch the episode in which Ilana takes Jacob ashes, you also ear some stone moving sounds when she picks them up and you can see that it's the same bag.
        • The sounds are pieces of bone that were not totally burned by the fire. Even when people are cremated in real life, the body is placed in a special chamber where temperatures range between 1800°F - 2000°F and burn for about 2 hours until the body is reduced to ash and many bone fragments, the bones never completely burn to ashes - they break up, splitter but not turn into ash. This was the noise heard, not black/white rocks.http://www.everlifememorials.com/v/urns/cremation-process.htm
          • This is generally true, however, it doesn't seem to apply to Jacob. He seems to have utterly and entirely been disintegrated in what, a matter of minutes? Clearly, there are some special properties surrounding Jacob and his ashes given his unique transformation from flesh to ash.
            • Maybe Jacobs power is the power of super-speed-cremation.

Desmond/Locke

  • It appears that when FLocke initially embarks on his excursion with Desmond, that he's doing what he's done time and time before. Journeying through the jungle, talking about good and evil, maybe he'll treat you to some scrumptious boar, or show you a cave on the side of a cliff, or even an ancient well. Regardless of the method, Flocke's goal is always to try to lure and manipulate people in believing (in) him. However, at the well, once the theatrics were done, Flocke appeared significantly distressed by Demsond's light-hearted responses and his overall invulnerability in being afraid at that moment. Flocke's failure in swaying Desmond's heart infuriated him. This, ironically, made Flocke fearful of what Desmond may be capable of. After all, if Flocke merely had the sole intention of killing Desmond, he could have done it much earlier
    • Desmond could be a candidate now, meaning MiB cannot kill him.
      • The candidates do not change.
      • For all we know Desmond was always a candidate. We were told there are 6 candidates. We know of Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, and Kwon. If Kwon is only referring to one of the spouses then a 6th spot is still open for Desmond. Maybe we just never saw his name
    • This is very similar to the situation with Eko. Both he and Desmond rebuked the MiB's advances in their own ways, and were subsequently attacked and left for dead.
  • Desmond knows that Locke is the MiB. He simply told him he believed he was Locke to trick him.
  • "You're John Locke" should be interpreted as "You're 'John Locke'" -- a deliberate non-answer and both of them know it.
  • Desmond seemed to know that his fate was to end up in the well. He willingly went with Sayid, and again went willingly with Locke and 'wasn't even afraid.'
    • Desmond knows what will happen, so he knows that whatever is happening is supposed to happen. Thus he just goes along with it all because somehow he knows where it will all lead to.
  • Once Desmond asks "What is the point of being afraid?", FLocke realizes he may be someone that proves Jacob's point that not everyone is inherently corrupt.
  • Flocke is afraid of Desmond. Those that are not afraid of Flocke are a threat to him. He requires the control, with Desmond there is none. Desmond is able to withstand Electromagnetic Flashes, so far. Flock may be testing him to see if he can survive another one.
  • Desmond knew Flocke would push him down the well, and allowed it to happen because he wanted to be exposed to the electromagnetic energy, which will allow him to reconnect with the FST, just as when Widmore exposed him to it in the shack.
    • It's not possible that Desmond knew that FLocke would do that. If he really did gain any information from his time in the wooden shack, it would be about the Side-Timeline, not back and forth in the OT as we have seen Desmond do before. It appeared that Desmond did not know Flocke was going to do that because frankly, I don't even think FLocke knew he was going to do that! As said and implied by others, throwing Desmond down the well was a more improvised maneuver rather than calculated.
      • Sorry for being unclear. I didn't mean Desmond "knew" Flocke would push him down the well in the sense of having a prophetic vision; I meant "knew" inasmuch as anyone might ordinarily "know" what someone else would do in a given situation. Perhaps "expected" would have been a better word. In any case, it explains why Desmond wasn't afraid of Locke.
      • In addition, if the people who built the well did not find anything down there, what do you expect Desmond to find? If this well turns out to be a well with a frozen chamber/wheel, then FLocke may have made a mistake by putting Desmond in the same vicinity as that power. However, there may be nothing at all down there, a dead end.
  • It can easily be argued that of all the people we've met on the Island Desmond is the most inherently good. Almost everything he has done has either been for someone else (mostly Penny) of the greater good (pushing the button for all those years without asking). Desmond will be the individual who proves Jacob right.
    • This is why fLocke pushed Desmond down the well - because here was the proof that Jacob needed. With him, MiB loses.
    • To prematurely counter act the "Hurley's a good guy" argument: Hurley's greed (one of the seven deadly sins) led him to "steal" the numbers to win the lottery, and this gluttony (another one of those deadly sins) caused him to lie about hoarding away supplies when they first landed on the Island.
  • Locke after being hit by Desmon, while he is in the floor, looks like he just came back from somewhere, you can see it when he changes his face. I would say that Locke just got a vision from the Island. At the same time Desmon, just before hitting him makes a weird smile. Desmon really tries to kill him because he knows who he is in the FST. If the reason was to produce in him a near-death experience, hitting a man in a wheelchair with a car, top speed, seems too brutal.
  • For someone who had been told (Eloise Hawking) that he'd never accomplish anything great in his life (reminds me of the reverse pyschology applied by the "oracle" to Neo in the MATRIX), Desmond has come quite a way. He now has the air of someone who has truly found his "purpose" and the smile of the older mysterious boy seems to be quite a reassurance. Fake Locke was previously warned by mysterious boy that he couldn't kill Sawyer (because he was a "candidate" or else?) because it was against the rules. Fake Locke's attempt to kill Desmond (I can't imagine we've seen the last of him) may have been a serious breach of the rules with consequences yet to come.
    • Actually, Desmond was told he would accomplish something great in his life: pushing the button in the hatch. It's interesting that the MIB knows this about Desmond. Perhaps whatever Desmond's button pushing was accomplishing was keeping the MIB/Smokey somewhat at bay. Perhaps Desmond's been fighting the MIB for years in this manner and never realized it.
  • Flocke threw Desmond down the well specifically because he understood that it would not kill him - due to Desmond's immunity to things electro-magnetic - but deliberately to get Desmond out of the way and unable to influence anyone else. To Flocke - Desmond is an unwanted complication - you might call him a variable - and Flocke does not need complications. Flocke cannot kill Desmond as he can only kill those judged and found wantiing (e.g. Eko) or those who have offered him violence (Ilana's team and the others at the temple who had opposed him in the past). Hence the solution with Desmond is to put him into the well (an electro-magnietic pool linked to the Island's power) so Desmond is incappacitated, but not killed. I would argue that this placement of desmond in the well is playing into Desmond's hands as proximity to the power of the Island will make his ability to flash between OT and FST stronger and it will bring about Flocke's ultimate defeat.

The Well:Frozen Donkey Wheel

  • Desmond is in the well with the Frozen Donkey Wheel
    • Unlikely as the frozen wheel is located beneath the Orchid at this point in time.
    • Counterpoint: John Locke went down (presumably) the same well to reach the frozen donkey wheel in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.
      • No that well was filled (prior to '54 but after 1860) in modern times. Flocke said there are many wells (probably conforming to the pockets that Jin had mapped out with Dharma), as said above the Orchid sits on the donkey wheel well.
        • Maybe there's more than one frozen donkey wheel.
          • There might be, if we assume every well on the island has its own donkey wheel. If we are to believe what Flocke tells Des: "This is not the only well".
            • The orchid well has been dry for some time. This well is full.

The Well:A new well

  • Desmond is in a different well with an as-yet unseen device inside of it
  • The well is what it seems: it was created a long time ago to access one of the electromagnetic pockets that Jin mapped.
  • Pushing Desmond down the well into the electromagnetic anomaly is Locke's way of killing him without him remaining on the island as a whisper (However, unknown to Locke, Desmond can survive this). Once Desmond hits the pocket of energy he awakes back in FST.
  • The wells are connected via underground tunnels. These same tunnels are the Cerberus Vents. Because of MiB's inability to withstand the EM pylons, perhaps the tunnels were a way of routing the monster around the island, in effect, a way to control and direct the "security system" by utilizing the Electromagnetism found in each well.
  • Being in the well of electromagnetism might allow Desmond the ability to bring knowledge from the OT into the FST. This may explain the *ahem* harsher introduction to Locke in the FST. Dez knew he was a bad man.

The Well: A Reference to Genesis / Thomas Mann's "Joseph" Tetralogy/Murakami's "Windup Bird Chronicle"

  • Desmond being thrown into the well corresponds to the biblical Joseph, son of Jakob, being imprisoned in the well by his half-brothers.
  • The first novel of German author Thomas Mann's Joseph Tetralogy, "Die Geschichten Jaakobs", chronicling the events around Jakob and Joseph as told in Genesis, begins with a literary prelude titled "descent into hell" - "Deep is the well of history", supposed to lead the reader deep into the founding myth's of the history of mankind. Desmond, having demonstrated an awareness of the depths of his world(s), is thus related both to the Joseph character and to the narrator in Thomas Mann's novel.)
  • In Haruki Murakami's novel "The Windup Bird Chronicle" the protagonist spends several days in the bottom of a dry well on the site of "spiritual disturbances." At the bottom of the well, the character can fall through into another alternate reality.

The Well: Construction

  • FLocke explains to Desmond that the well is very old, and that old explorers dug to find out what made their compasses flip out. However, he also adds that they did not find what they were looking for. Then what is the deal with the frozen wheel? Are the people who built the well the same people who built the frozen wheel? This is starting to seem unlikely. The people built the well were looking for that wheel/pocket and never found it. The only group to get closest to finding what they were looking for was the Dharma during drilling in the Orchid. Therefore, if even the earliest explorers dug and found nothing, and so did the Dharma basically, then can one assume that the Frozen Wheel was never actually built by any 'man.' It would appear to be more inherent to the island, almost part of its natural habitat..
    • however, Ben and presumably the Others knew about the Frozen Wheel. For how long they've known or how is still a mystery. It is possible they found out through Dharma, only after Dharma had initially discovered it.
  • It seems somewhat odd that the same people that had compass technology were at the same time unable to use shovels but used their hands instead. This smells like another lie from fake Locke.
    • By hand == without machinery, not actually with just their hands. It's like carving a statue by hand, you still use a chisel you just don't use machinery.

Ilana Goes Boom

As Ben eloquently points out, Ilana - hand-picked by Jacob himself, to come and serve a purpose, dies horribly. Why and possibly, who/what is responsible?

Jacob?

  • It would seem unlikely that Jacob was responsible in killing Ilana, but perhaps he is guilty of not intervening in saving her life.
    • Jacob is dead. He's not responsible for killing her or for choosing not to save her. He couldn't do either. Perhaps if he were still alive, she wouldn't have died a horrible death.
  • After-all, Ilana describes her relationship with Jacob as father and daughter
    • Considering Jacob's ability to see the future, he was probably aware that Ilana would get killed on the island. When Jacob approached heavily injured Ilana (injuries from a previous suicide mission on behalf of Jacob?) it didn't seem he was merely asking her for a field trip but possibly for the ultimate sacrifice. Thus, Ilana knew that she wouldn't make it off the island alive, but finally she didn't have to suffer.
  • However, he did tell Ilana to look to Richard for the next move, which leads him to reach the conclusion that they need to procure dynamite, which inevitably leads to Ilana man-handling the explosives and paying the price.
    • But, what if the point was for Ilana to blow up so Hurley would destroy the rest of the dynamite? What if Jacob knew Richard would want to destroy the plane, so he told Ilana to ask Richard what to do, which would lead Ilana to get the dynamite, explode, and inspire Hurley's actions?
    • This bothers me for 2 reasons:
      • A: Seems incredibly twisted, even for Jacob's taste.
      • B: If you re-watch the episode, it's Michael's appearance that inspires Hurley and sets him on his path

Hurley

This theory is predicated on the "Hurley has already replaced Jacob" theory. Perhaps it isn't the Island which has been manipulating events. Perhaps it was Jacob. (We can clearly see some of MiB's interactions with the Losties since Day 1. Perhaps Jacob has been involved as well.) Since Hurley has taken over for Jacob, he is now able to will some events to happen. When Ilana presents the dynamite, he unconsciously wills her to explode to warn the rest away from the dynamite.

  • This theory asks too many far out questions. Hurley cannot have replaced Jacob because Hurley is unsure of himself. Jacob is never unsure of himself. Secondly, there is no purpose for the other candidates then. Jacob was not afraid of MiB, but Hurley seems to be afraid even when they go to meet MiB. Hurley must be willing bad things on Richard since he does not listen to him? Hurley, right now, is an inferior replacement for Jacob which does not make sense since what is at stake on the island requires a resolute leader. I don't think Jacob will blow up Ilana like that since he presents himself as the opposite of malevolence or evil(MiB). Unless it has all been a lie, and Jacob and his replacement are actually the bad ones.

FLocke/MiB? maybe after llana got killed she woke up in a Russian hospital with jacob standing over her.

  • FLocke's main victims have come directly through brute force via the smoke monster.
  • FLocke has not been seen to be able to exert the power to jam revolvers or prevent someone from dying
    • He does loosen the rope binding Ben's arms in the Dr. Linus episode.
    • However, right before the Kahana explodes, Christian Shepard appears before Michael and tells him he can go now. As we know, there is some existing relationship/connection between C. Shepard and MiB.
      • Then it's doubtful that MiB and Christian are one and the same, because if they were, then MiB could have escaped off the island through the Kahana.
        • But they could be the same person, because he couldn't have escaped on the Kahana because, at that time, Jacob was still alive.
          • They can't be the same person, because Christian Shepard was at the barracks with Sun and Frank at the same time MiB was with Ben and Ilana at the Hydra infirmary.
            • He has to leave with every candidate, so he couldn't just go in the Kahana.
          • MIB cannot suddenly appear, he has to travel to where ever the Avatar he uses shows up (think Eko and his brother). But MIB cannot travel across water (he cannot get to Hydra Island without a boat). Hence MIB could not have gotten to the Kahana unless he was on the Helicopter. MIB was not on the Helicopter.

Richard

  • As Richard himself points out, Jacob does not usually give specific instructions. Richard, not Jacob, is responsible for the dynamite idea, even if Jacob did instruct Ilana to pay heed to Richard. It was unnecessary for Richard to have Ilana fool around with unstable dynamite to begin with. A plane's delicate instrumentation can easily be destroyed by half a dozen determined people and even primitive tools/clubs.
    • Furthermore, wouldn't a logical group of individuals stop and say, "Hey, let's get Richard, the man who can't die, to handle all dynamite-carrying related business"? Don't put it in the hands of one the people we know is expendable (following candidate idea). But it could be just poor storytelling.
    • This implies that Richard Alpert and those with him are not aware of the presence of Charles Widmore and his Submarine on the island. Blowing up the plane leaves the submarine. Sawyer told Kate it was their ticket off the island. Until whoever chooses to lead, knows the full picture of what is going on with all the groups on the island, their actions will always be misguided or at best, a minor victory. Hurley in his confusion is likely making more headway by going to meet MiB, now they can make better decisions if Sawyer or Sayid fills them in on Widmore's presence on the Island. MiB will try to turn them against Charles Widmore in order to effect his escape and possibly rescue Jin if he is the candidate 'Kwon'. I suppose Hurley and Jack should be finding out who was coming to the island via the lighthouse incident and what means of transportation they are using, because Jacob told them about it.
    • It is Richard's fault. Richard is not following MiB right now because Hugo told him what Richard's wife thought of him so he didn't take MiB on his offer. Hugo told Richard that blowing up the plane was a bad idea, but Richard insisted on it. Richard leads by making mistakes. If you want to live and you are not a candidate, let Richard do all the dirty work or you die. Ilana was too eager to help him. MiB sparred Richard's life the first time they met because it knew Richard deep down is scared and confused, easily swayed and not anchored. That is why he gave him that offer that is as immortal as himself.

The Island (Third Party Idea)

  • As Ben states clearly, "The Island was done with her." Perhaps neither Jacob nor MiB have the power to keep someone alive or allow them to die in some weird Final Destination type death. Perhaps it is exactly as Ben puts it, The Island, as an entity, has the power to eliminate players/candidates/characters once they fulfill some destined role.
    • This leads into the idea that Jacob and MiB are also players within the game and not the end-all be-all.
  • The island has been shown to be able to stop death (as seen in Black Rock scene with Jack and Richard or many suicide attempts of Michael and Jack off the island). It can easily be able to cause death as well.
    • But were those two situations the island stopping their deaths, or Jacob stopping their deaths? We know Jacob touched Jack, and made Richard immortal.
      • This is exactly a point that will have to be resolved before the end of the show, who sits on the top of the pyramid? As we have witnessed throughout the seasons, the show has baited the audience slowly on who exactly reigns over the island. At one point it was assumed to be Mr. Friendly, then Ben, some even then led to believe it was Richard, and then Jacob. Perhaps, one final surprise will reveal that even Jacob answers to somebody
        • Since Jacob cannot leave the island(he has to be there to keep an eye on things), and he needs a replacement, and the island is like a cork on a wine jar preventing MiB from escaping, some entity or force of nature must have placed them both there. Whatever made the rules is the top dog because Jacob and MiB are bound by those rules. Cause if you throw the cork(island) away, MiB is free to roam the world. The nature of their rules is what decides who lives or dies. The island and all those on it are bound by the rules. The question is really what exactly are the rules, the nature of the rules, the source of the rules and what can nullify the rules. Richard is immortal, bestowed upon him by Jacob who was acting within the rules(he couldn't bring Richard's wife back to life, but immortality is within his abilities). Should Richard act outside of the rules or likely go off the island he may/will become mortal and die.
          • We have seen Jacob off the island on several occasions. With young Kate; young James; Jack; at the wedding of Sun/Jin; Hurley in the cab. Unless you're suggesting that Jacob can only project himself off the island, and never really, permanently leave?
          • Yes, the entity that is Jacob cannot permanently leave the island. Jacob has responsibilities towards the island and in keeping the balance. He may project himself elsewhere as you say, but a ‘Jacob’ has to be there. That is why his replacement will have to assume Jacob’s responsibilities. Seeing as he even needs a replacement shows that the position or role of Jacob cannot be left unattended.
  • Ilana had done exactly what Jacob asked her to do, protect the candidates and then let Richard do the leading after that. She had fulfilled her purpose. The island did not need her services anymore. Hugo did warn her about handling the dynamites. She did not listen to Hugo though Michael had told Hugo everyone was listening to him now. The book that was left in Ilana's bag speaks of freewill against determinism. Ilana was likely operating by her own free will at that point but did not know it. She made an unwise choice mishandling the dynamite sticks.This means that someone else may have the task of protecting the candidates(maybe Richard), or the candidates no longer need protection because things have changed. That is to say, the presence of Desmond has somehow triggered the endgame, he is the constant after all. Not a pleasant way to die, but her death seemed similar to the burn injuries she sustained when Jacob visited her a the hospital. She did not die then because she had work to do on the island for Jacob.
    • Agree. Ilana seemed to have gone the way of Michael on the freighter (after interrupted suicide attempts)--'you can go now' and kaboom. Your purpose is served, goodbye.

Don't Play with Fireworks

  • Perhaps it's as simple as dynamite is highly unstable and very combustible, end of story.
    • Richard took a stick and lit it on fire, it seems a great force is at will.
    • She trains for this and doesn't bother to put a bunch of sand in the bag with the highly unstable dynamite? Odd.
      • Richard can´t die! Everyone else should have been and was careful with TNT from the Black Rock in all of its various appearances, and some died anyway. Is she really so dumb as to just throw the bag down, or was it on purpose?
  • As stated above, half a dozen people or so don't need dynamite to render a plane unable to fly, a pair of wire cutters and a crowbar should do just fine. Michael told Hurley he was there to "stop them from blowing up the plane," not "stop them from keeping MIB on the island." Michael knew, perhaps from Jacob, that they needed to stop MIB from leaving, but not to use the dynamite to do so because of exactly what happened, the dynamite is unstable, unsafe, and can cause more harm than good considering there are other ways to keep the plane grounded.
    • One guy, who by the way can't die, with a knife and the willingness to pop a couple tires could solo disable the plane. It seems certain even MiB can't kill Richard. Why is Richard so intent on everybody doing this?
      • Richard hasn't been thinking clearly since Jacob was killed. His temperament has shifted. For the decades preceding the Losties' arrival (somewhere between 50-150 years), Richard's role as "immortal consigliere" allowed him to be the most cool and rational person on the island. Jacob's death has caused Richard to have a major existential crisis. His temperament now is anything but rational. Jacob told Ilana to follow Richard, the guy who always knew "what to do". Ironically, because of Jacob's death, Richard is now panicked and fairly helpless.
  • Alternatively, it's possible that Ilana killed herself intentionally. It wouldn't be surprising given her close relationship with Jacob, if he asked her to. She may have sacrificed herself knowing it would result in Hurley/Richard taking sides.

Course Correction

  • Her injuries when Jacob visited her in the hospital before probably should have killed her; however, the Island preserved her life. Once the Island was done with her, course correction set in and she is killed.

Reward

  • It could be Jacob's way of saying thank you and letting the person go (kinda twisted, but). If the Island and Jacob were done with her, they spared her the long process of dying and granted a painless (i never been blown up by the dynamite but I don't think Ilana felt anything). Hence she was thrown into the FST and chilling there getting all the goodies and perks of the universe where wishes are granted.
    • This assumes that Jacob is responsible for the FST and the subjective idea that the FST is 'good.' However, it seems likely that the FST is the 'wrong one' and will soon collapse as Desmond pushes on with his mission

Perhaps Ilana's death was meant to be a pretty strong clue that the MIB SUCCEEDS in getting off the island. After all, Ilana was the last of the team sent to stop him, and was Jacob's appointed leader. Indeed, everything seems to be falling into place (and down a well) for the MIB. Maybe the point of watching Ilana blow up was to hint to the audience that the Locke of the alternate universe is not who he says he is.

She served no purpose any way

  • She was killed off because writers finally realized the obvious - neither she nor her people served any important or interesting purpose. Thank god they didn't waste a whole episode just to get rid of them like they did with Nikki and Paulo.
    • Ilana served three significant purposes: 1) getting Sayid on the Ajira flight; 2) getting her team to take the real Locke's body to the statue; 3) keeping Ben on her side and away from MIB. Also, her team burned Jacob's cabin; and after her team's demise, she led the group to the beach camp. Now, the remnants of her bag are in Hurley's hand (including the bag of Jacob's ashes). These may be important functions as well. Time will tell.
      • All those purposes could have been served without bringing in whole bunch of new characters whose background and motivations will not be explained because there are only a few episodes left.
    • This is extremely unlikely. The show's producers don't let things with 'no purpose' onto the show. The writers didn't kill her off in such a dramatic way, changing the entire tone of the episode and course of the plot, because they thought she was useless; if she was, she would never have been written in, and if they decided to get rid of her after the fact, it would have been by not having her appear any more, with a line of dialogue or two to the effect that she had gone elsewhere, permanently. The writers and producers of Lost aren't doing their job at random, throwing in characters to see if they develop a purpose on their own. This isn't some student film, thrown together by committee and without foresight in the course of a few afternoons. The producers had a purpose for introducing Ilana, having her effect the storyline as she did, and killing her off in an explosive conclusion to her story arc. Trust me on this.

Motives of the Spirits/Ghosts

General

  • Given that spirits appear and whispers are heard when something significant's going to happen, it would appear that they have the best perspective of what is happening on the island. Every now and again, they seem to have knowledge of future events (See Michael's motives below)
  • They may be trying to earn their way out of purgatory by helping out the living.
  • The spirits do not necessarily have good intentions, and they may not be trying to help out the living. Christian, the spirit we have seen the most, seems to have worked with the Man in Black and perhaps helped turn Claire crazy and to the MiB's side. From what we've seen of Christian, it seems likely that he has more evil intentions than good.
    • It is possible that all the spirits are evil and may be working with the Man in Black, including Michael.
    • Whether they are good or evil, Christian and Michael's spirits likely have the same motive for the advice they give to the Losties.
      • Not to start up the Christian/MiB debate again, but it is still very possible that what we have been seeing as Christian has really just been MiB. Hurley is the only person that actually sees dead people, so I don't think we can equate Christian's motives with Michael's because they very well might be completely different in nature (Michael is actually just dead Michael but Christian may be MiB).
        • The problem with that is Claire considers both the Man in Black and Christian as her friends, and since she was able to tell the difference between John Locke and the Man in Black in John Locke's form, it seems likely that she would be able to the difference between Christian and the Man in Black in Christian's form.

Michael's motives

  • Michael said he is trapped on the island. Maybe he can escape or be freed if the MiB leaves the island, and that is why he tells Hugo not to blow up the plane.
    • Perhaps he is now in the same situation as MiB, and therefore desires the same endgame. After all, they are apparently both stuck on the island.
  • Michael is lying. His definition of the whispers doesn't make sense. First, there is Walt, who appeared after the sounds of whispers when he was still alive; also, there is Mr. Eko's brother Yemi, who was dead, but was a priest and free of sin, and therefore shouldn't be trapped. Michael is either lying, or that's not Michael.
    • It's not Michael's explanation of the whispers. It's the "show's" explanation.
    • His definition of the whispers does make sense. Walt was special; we don't know exactly why, but the kid could kill birds with his mind. They asked if he had ever "been somewhere he wasn't supposed to be." Walt could probably either go between dimensions like Desmond or project more than one copy of himself. Yemi died before the plane crashed, and MIB was using Yemi's body to appear to Eko. Hurley can see dead people for crying out loud, Michael is dead. People have been speculating since the 3rd season that the whispers were people from previous loops.
  • Michael claimed that the whispers are tied in with people who are stuck on the island. MIB is indeed stuck on the island and therefore would be accompanied by the whispers. This would explain the reason why Walt and Yemi were accompanied by the whispers.
    • Yemi and Co. were accompanied by whispers not because of their source, (manifestations of the MiB) but simply the event or situation that is occurring. For example, the 'whispering ghosts' observe, converse and even perhaps try to warn characters of looming or impending danger, or some other significant happening. Having passed on, they probably do know more about the nature of the island then when they were alive. Therefore, when they witness the MiB manifesting and projecting to the characters, the whispers become direly concerned because they know the true reality of what/who the MiB is and are fearful for what the MiB might do to our Lost cast.
  • The Whispers are of all the souls that the Black Smoke has claimed on the island. I don't believe Hurley was talking to Michael, that was another manifestation of the MIB. I don't think Hurley understands the difference yet, but I beleive the whispers are the key to determining if it is the Black Smoke vs dead people visiting.
    • MIB can no longer take the form of other people, he is stuck as Locke.
    • This idea has some validation but perhaps its the other way around. Dead people accompanied by whispers, manifestations by MiB accompanied by nothing. Although, we have heard whispers during MiB/manifestation scenes. In addition, when Isabella appears before Hugo and Richard, no whispers are heard which seems a bit strange for Lost. It would seem the perfect place to put whispers in, especially given "Everybody Loves Hugo."
    • But Ilana says MiB cannot take any other form now once he has chosen to appear as the physical form of Locke. Doesn't that mean that he cannot appear as other people now but only change to his smoke form.
      • This is true. However, it does not answer to who's end these Whispers/Ghosts are working for. It does seem genuine that Michael is working to do good by Hugo and Co. While Christian, well, you get the picture.
        • There's no reason to assume that Michael is doing good. His advice contradicted Jacob's advice to follow Richard, and Jacob has proven to be a much better person than Michael. Michael could be leading Hurley right into a trap by having him talk to the Man in Black. Michael killed two innocent people to benefit himself, so if Michael benefits from the Man in Black getting off the island, I don't think he'd hesitate to deceive Hurley if that's what it takes.
  • Michael is a ghost recruited by MiB to influence Hurley as a counter-move to Jacob guiding Isabella's spirit to the Island and restoring Richard at a crucial turn. He is someone known to Hurley, but not who Hurley would have chosen to see. Hurley was, moments before, asking Libby to visit.
    • When reminded that he killed Libby and Ana-Lucia, and is still untrustworthy, Michael claims "That doesn't matter now." and focuses Hurley on the mission to blow up the plane. This technique of distraction is employed by MiB in 'Ab Aeterno' as well as 'Christian' keeping Locke's attention away from Claire in the cabin. The fact that Michael murdered Libby very much matters to Hurley, and is reflected in their parting. It's possible Hurley realized it was a mistake trusting Michael, but carried on since the plan was peaceful. If Hurley really felt reconciled towards Michael he might have volunteered that Walt asked about him.

Consequences

  • Choosing to not destroy the plane could result in these situations:
    1. MiB will kidnap/force the remaining candidates to get on the Ajira flight, ending everything.
    2. Hurley will sabotage the plane at the last minute.
    3. One or more of the non-candidates will be killed.
    4. Desmond will somehow prevent the plane from taking off.
    5. Richard's group will prevent the plane from taking off.
  • The plane is irrelevant. We know there's a submarine, even if Richard's group doesn't yet, so blowing up the plane doesn't affect MIB's ability to leave the Island. That plane could never take off anyway: pointed the wrong way, probably with insufficient space and an inappropriate surface on which to gain liftoff, and with old fuel.
  • Zoe suggests the plane could be repaired, Sawyer doesn't disagree, other than that there is little objective information. Notice nevertheless that both escape vehicles - sub and plane - are now surounded by sonar fence pylons, an obstacle fake Locke seems to be determined to overcome by carving and developing olympic aspirations...
    • Also, it seems likely enough that Desmond, at the bottom of the well, is poised to turn the donkey wheel (or interact with some part of the island's magic machinery), activating an electromagnetic event similar to the one he caused by not pushing the button in the hatch. It would be fitting for Desmond, having inadvertently crashed 815, to now actively choose to crash the Ajira plane as it leaves the island with MiB on board through a similar method.
      • Yeah, except for the point that Desmond has in fact not "inadvertently" crashed 815, cause these dudes on the plane were destined (!) to go there...
    • MIB seems to be stopped by water and sonic vibrations. Traveling on the sub, while it may not kill MIB, would be pure hell for him. Consider the sSonar beacon the submarine needs to navigate not to mention the pressure on the sub when dived may affect MIB differently then everyone else.--Zaggs 17:26, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Jack and MiB Face to Face

When Jack and Flocke came face to face...

  • MiB had a look of fear. MIB knows Jack is the true candidate.
    • MiB looked at Jack as if he was his new target. Jack has a great history with Locke. Originally they were butting heads over issues of leadership and faith vs fact. But eventually Locke converted Jack to the believer in "The Island" (and it's "plan"). MiB or FLOCKE intend to use their history to manipulate Jack for his benifit in an upcoming episode.
    • MiB has Locke's memories. He's remembering everything that transpired between Jack and Locke.
    • MiB was not afraid, only Jack was.
      • Jack's not afraid of anything.
  • Jack had a look of fear. Something happened to Jack. Something important.
    • But Jack knows it's not really Locke.
    • Jack and Locke have a huge history, and it's the first time he has seen him since before the Ajira flight. It feels like we have known about Flocke forever, but only a few days have gone by on the island this entire season. Jack has only known that "Locke" was still "alive" for a few days. It must be pretty hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone has come back to life. Even though Jack knows it isn't Locke, it's Locke's body. He's having trouble telling his brain that it isn't actually Locke. Anyone would be disturbed if they saw someone that had died walking around again.
      • Also, keep in mid how affected Jack was by the news of Locke's death. Jack was the only one at his funeral. Jack had to put his own father's shoes on Locke's corpse. Jack is just recovering from a lengthy mental breakdown, and seeing Locke alive and well isn't helping him with his daddy issues.
        • And in the FST Jack is likely going to meet Locke now since he was hit by Desmond and will be sent to the hospital. This could trigger Jack's own recollection of the island memories. There is a major connection between Jack and Locke/Flocke.
          • People on the island are completely unaware of FST. Whatever happens in that timeline, does not appear to affect anyone in OT, with the exception of Desmond whose consciousness was always able to travel.
  • The reason Flocke only greeted Jack, is because Jack is the only one who hasn't met him yet. The sight of Locke has just shocked Jack.
    • Hurley hadn't met MiB in a human form until this episode.
      • Hurley is also the first of the Candidates to NOT let MiB speak first.
        • Also note that Flocke handed Hurley his knife. As we know, Jacob was killed with his own knife, and it seems highly likely that somebody (Hurley?) will be able to kill Flocke with his own knife.
          • Note that Sayid tried to kill MiB with his own knife as well, and failed. This is likely for two reasons:
            • Sayid let MiB talk first.
            • The knife that Sayid tried to use was not actually the MiB's, or it is not effective now that MiB has changed forms.
  • It is possible that fake Locke is Christian, Jack's father - after all Jack did see him several times on the island, and Locke saw him too before turning the wheel - yes it could merely have been only MiB, but it could be he is really Christian.
    • MiB predates Christian S. by god knows how many hundreds of years. Also, Christians' absence seems a bit peculiar, no doubt he will come to play again soon for a pivotal role. He may attempt to manipulate Jack once and for all to side with FLocke. This may very well be Jack's biggest challenge, not necessarily the old rhetoric of Jack Vs. Locke, but actually Jack Vs. His Father, Christian.
    • Jack knows Hurley can see dead people, etc. So perhaps, the reason Jack had a shocked look on his face, is because he thought that Hurley was going to talk to the "Ghost" of Locke, and not expecting to see "Locke" alive.
      • It seems that all losties except for Desmond came to understanding that Lock is not a ghost, but an entity which took his form.
  • Jack and MIB react strongly upon seeing each other because Jack is no longer Jack, he is Jacob now. This is why he has stopped leading people. This episode gave an important clue. Richard says that Jacob can't tell people what to do. This is why Jack(Jacob) is know longer the "man in charge". This new "Jack" corresponds in time to Jacob dying perfectly.

Zen Desmond

  • Desmond was not feeling fear about being alone with MiB. He then got thrown down into a well. Desmond is not afraid or worried about his path on the island anymore because he knows his FS counterpart is working on setting the timelines straight.
    • Desmond is pure determinism at this point. His consciousness never left the FST, as such his OT consciousness just does what it's told, acts without any free will. His salvation for everyone else is the transfer of consciousness for everyone on the flight from OT into FST.
      • But it seems quite the opposite; that FST Desmond wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT and transfer their consciousness to the OT.
        • He definitely wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT, but we have no evidence that he wants to transfer anything. Desmond touched his own OT consciousness and received from Daniel the explanation that something in the OT made them want to change something. Now that they have, Desmond wants to reconnect everyone with their OT memories so that they can all reclaim in the FST what was important to them in the OT.
  • Desmond now knows he caused the plane to crash, and like Faraday doesn't "want to set off a nuclear bomb", Desmond wants to correct his "mistake".

Whispers and The Others

  • For the better part of the series, The Whispers have generally been associated with the presence of "The Others". If the idea that The Whispers are voices of souls stuck on the island is true, then that would mean that some of "The Others" that we've seen in the past/present have in fact been ghosts. This would also mean that while Hurley can see them at all times, these ghosts do have the ability to reveal themselves to anyone should they choose to.
    • Not only does the newly revealed information on the whispers NOT imply that some Others we've seen are themselves ghosts, but also Hurley has never been shown to "see (souls trapped on the island) at all times". Hurley's power is seemingly subject to the will of any spirit he talks to (with the possible exception of his first conversation with ghost Charlie, at the end of which Hugo seems to will him away) in that they show up whenever they feel like and leave the same way, with no way for Hurley to find them himself or call on them in any way. It seems that the whispers have an agenda unrelated to Jacob's or MiB's. It would make sense that the agenda of the whispers falls in line with the desires of the people who's spirits are whispering. They tend to precede attacks from the others and from smokey in any form, so it seems like they are just trying to protect people. This holds with Ben telling Rousseau to run the other way when she hears whispers. If Ben had no real desire to bring Rousseau any harm, telling her to use the whispers as an alarm was pretty sound advice, even if it was (in Ben's eyes) just to prevent her getting caught by the Others.
    • Typically the whispers are heard before The Others make an appearance.
      • It is assumed The Others are the source of the whispers, however, it is the whispers that appear before the Smoke Monster arrives. The Whispers have been traditionally followed by the "tick tick" sound and black smoke - hence the ghosts providing a warning to those in danger. Knowing that alive inhabitants might be a little perturbed by the sound, this is a pretty good warning; and the alerted islanders run for cover. This is also indicated by Danielle Rousseau "when you hear the whispers run)
      • There are no tracks left - if they are ghosts or smoke; no tracks would be left. Ghosts cannot be seen by inhabitants other than Hugo Reyes (others might have seen them, but they are possible deceased).
  • The whispers were no more than a plot device to make the others seem more 'creepy'. The 'explanation' was in some way to satisfy fan curiosity. No further explanation will be forthcoming.
      • The Others don't leave tracks simply because they're well trained and experienced and know how to set dummy trails or remove their tracks entirely.
    • In Season 5 The Whispers are heard before Christian Shepherd reveals himself to Sun and Lapidus in the Dharma barracks
      • This would potentially confirm that Christian is in fact a spirit
    • At the beginning of Season 6 when Kate/Jack/Hurley/etc... are in the tunnels leading to the temple, whispers are heard before The Others kidnap them.
  • Perhaps the whispers show themselves only in times of trouble. They are not associated with Others, MiB, or higher power even. They watch, and when something big is going down, they're 'talking' becomes more intense and it gets louder, to the point where the audience and characters can hear them. Therefore, the whispers are tied to events that happen, not factions/people. The reason they appear so often with the Others is because for a lot of the time, the Others were committing kidnappings, deceptions, raids and so forth, which would have invited a lot of talk among the witnessing whispering ghosts.
  • The Whisper transcripts need updating for later episodes, but the ones that exist can seem to indicate "ghosts" who both watch the action of the Losties but also attempt to manipulate the action in some undisclosed way.
    • For example, during the whisper sequence with Charlie on the beach, the following statements were made:

"Grab it right now" "I know I've had it" "Let's get him moving" "Are you confused or something ?" (sped up) "He's just leaving him " (reversed) "We can all raise this baby " Many such examples of "action" exist.

  • It seems clear that death (and love) are "Doors" in the Lostverse. Some people get stuck on the other side of the door without moving on. When Ilana dies, she will "wake up" surrounded by a myriad of ghosts and will work with them for whatever their endgame is.
  • In the first season, there is a boar that is taunting Sawyer, and it's accompanied by whispers saying "it'll come back around," which are the last words of the man Sawyer killed, leading Sawyer to believe that the boar is the ghost of the man he killed. Lost's explanations of the whispers make sense for that episode, but it is unclear why that man's spirit would end up on the island.
    • It could just be what Sawyer, with his guilty-conscience, imagined the whispers to be saying when he heard them.


  • Walt was whispering to Shannon in Man of Science, Man of Faith and Abandoned and both Shannon and Sayid also in the same episode but Walt clearly got off the island and wasn't stuck on the island so how was he one of the people who could whisper if he was able to leave the island.
    • The explanation offered so far has been Walt is "special," and that is why he was able to appear as if he was a ghost.
    • To more detail: Walt can be theorized as projecting his image into other people's minds. Almost as a manifestation. Walt's ability had emphasis in the creative mind, meaning he can project what he can think of. So, he reads about polar bears, and you get one. He reads and thinks about birds, you get them flocking in. He even tries to visualize him throwing the knife with Locke before he successfully nails the throw.

FST visions of the OT

  • In the FST, only people who have died in the OT have organically generated visions of the OT
    • Charlie, Faraday, and now Libby all had visions of the OT without the aid of someone else
      • But why didn't FST Charlotte appear to have any OT memories? Or Arzt? Keamy? Must not be a guarantee.
        • Charlie, Faraday and Libby had visions of people they loved, ie their soul-mates. If someone doesn't find their soul-mate on the island, then they don't have a vision. Interestingly, Charlotte must not reciprocate Faraday's love. (Obvious, since Faraday got nowhere with her over several weeks while she hopped into bed with FST Sawyer after about five minutes.)
      • Only Faraday and Libby had visions without the aid of someone else. Charlie would have died had Jack not revived him, just as he revived him after being hanged by Ethan in the jungle.
        • Jack didn't aid Charlie's vision though. He interrupted it, which is why Charlie was angry. It was the near death experience that brought on the vision, not Jack reviving him.
    • Desmond and Hurley had visions, but only with the aid of other people

Desmond has been claimed, for good

  • The Man in Black is confounded that Desmond has no fear. Sayid also described a numbing of sensations. Claimed persons have exhibited erratic behavior from their previous personalities. Desmond's optimistic and carefree disposition marks him as claimed by the light side.
    • Totally agree with you. While Sayid said he wasn't feeling good, pointing he felt no more and never smiling, we can see Desmon smiling but at the same time never being scared. Locke realized who he was after asking him about his fearless situation, that' s why he threw him down the well. Walking with him thru the jungle was kind of an interview for MiB to try to find out who he really was.
      • Now that its mentioned, there are some similarities between the Zen-like Dogen and Desmond, who seems to be on a path of Zen. Also, Dogen (awesome character) seemed extremely well poised, and not one to let fear consume him
      • Desmond is on the path of ‘true love’. Like a ‘love fool’ who does anything for love. In the FST he is ready to sacrifice his wealth power and status to seek out Penny and set the timeline back to the OT. Desmond is not literally a fool, he does understand he is part of a grand scheme of something going in both FST and OT. Let’s not forget that Desmond is the constant, as such once he begins to walk this path, and understanding what true love is (ala Penny)and the sacrifices involved, he is more of a neutral, and can be anywhere. Not really on anyone’s side . I see Desmond as someone who is going to carry/guide/catalyst the candidates to their destinies. Desmond is more like the ‘scale’ which balances the white rock against the black rock. He is a bit like the island, balancing the two entities Jacob vs MiB.MiB takes advantage of people's grief, fears or anxieties and pain to turn them(corrupt them) towards his agenda, Sayid, Claire, Sawyer, Richard. Desmond is in that place where these attributes don’t exist and MiB does not understand it. Remember Jacob said his plan was to prove MiB wrong that humans do not always, kill corrupt and destroy. That humans can make better choices. Should Desmond choose to sacrifice himself out of true love for something, he will be pretty much on his way to prove MiB wrong. Dogen was on the path of understanding the sacrifice that true love brings; to have his son live he has to do this work on the island. Dogen did say that Jacob drives a hard bargain. The MiB said his mother was ‘crazy’ , who knows MiB probably does not know true love as it applies to humans. I can see the season ending with some stupendous act of love, sacrifice, or bravery which will seem awesome, and at the same time in some sense seem like a waste from MiB and some people’s point of view to keep the balance or status quo on island. That’s love. On a lighter note, someone needs to show MiB some love or Zen or chill pills.


Desmond is an Alt. timeline version of Jacob

  • Like Jacob trying to bring people to the island, Desmond is attempting to bring people from the island to the alt timeline.
    • His manipulations of Hurley were similar to Jacob's manipulations of the six.

Desmond is the OT timeline New Jacob

  • It’s no coincidence that Des is named for a fellow Scot, philosopher David Hume, who argued that free will and determinism are compatible, i.e. that the truth of one does not rule out the truth of the other. Ever since we first met Desmond, he has personified the struggle between determinism and free will. Yet lately Desmond is just beginning to bridge the gap between the two.
  • He’s been making the rounds to all the Oceanic passengers, trying to help them pierce through the illusion of the FST. He’s not unlike Jacob, who helped steer his candidates on course. Free will, interestingly enough, is the basis for the contest between the MiB and Jacob: that someone can prove himself incorruptible, and yet make the right choices on their own, is what Jacob has been waiting for.
  • Des is not a Candidate. Des, is, however, a variable, a wild card, someone who, in Faraday’s words, is “uniquely and miraculously special” and someone to whom the normal rules seemingly do not apply. It is possible that Des will do what Jacob has been waiting for: a selfless act of personal sacrifice in the service of the greater good. He’ll choose to remain on the island as the new Jacob, not because he was chosen to do so but because he chooses to do so. The one place that he’s least wanted to be, even though it means he’ll never see Penny or his son Charlie again, because doing so will save the world. This is the philosopher Hume’s idea of self will — Liberty — coexisting with determined fate — Necessity. This could also be the sacrifice Widmore told Des he’ll have to make.
    • This is a very insightful theory. But since Ilana said the candidates are to replace Jacob, I believe if Desmond is not a candidate, by being the constant, he is going to help bring the candidates or whoever is going to replace Jacob to a similar realization. One of selfless personal sacrifice, with no seeming personal gain as you describe. Without Desmond the equation will never be balanced, though other variables or candidates may change, the constant has to be there.

The Number 42

  • So Desmond is number 42. I know it's a pop culture reference but theyre not rare in Lost, but in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy the answer to the meaning of life is 42. So theyre saying Desmond knows the meaning of life.
    • I don't really know where you got this but number 42 is Kwon, so unless you have some way to relate Desmond to the name Kwon i think 42 has to represent either Jin or Sun
      • He got number 42 from the restaurant scene in "Everybody Loves Hugo" when Desmond's order number of '42' was called out.
  • No offense, but this theory has no substance and likely should be deleted. The ticket number 42 is just a reference to the numbers that have been referenced ever since the first season. The ticket number does not make Desmond any more significant than he already was. Anna Lucia had seat number 42 on Flight 815, and she was killed off in the second season. Most characters have had some encounter with the number 42 since that is one of the numbers the show always returns to. As someone else mentioned, the significant number 42 is the number on the lighthouse which represents one of the Kwons as a candidate.
  • Strangely enough the producers did choose 42 as reference to Hitchhikers Guide, as part of a random set of numbers chosen from both the pilot and references such as these. While their origins have not much meaning to the show they have indeed been appearing everywhere in Lost episodes...except in the alternate timeline. What is interesting is that places where the numbers used to be, such as the seat numbers and Hurley's lottery win (promotional photo)have actually changed numbers. This is the first clear reference to the numbers right when Desmond is leading Hurley to remembering the original timeline. This may actually be a sign that the original timeline is starting to affect the alternate.

Reflections

  • I know I brought this up in the discussion, but I feel that it holds some kind of significance. I theorize that Hurley not seeing his reflection at any point in the episode (unless you want to count his face on posters?¿) was intentional. I feel it is something we were supposed to pickup on. Maybe even though that Hurley didn't have his "memories", that he possibly transcends both realities? I'm not sure what it could possibly mean, but considering every previous character aside from Jin has seen their reflection. Maybe it means they really aren't as important as we're lead to believe?
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