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== The kid in the jungle ==
 
== The kid in the jungle ==
   
*The child is Jacob. The child is MIB. Every man balanced their scale between light and dark, good and evil. Jacob is pure light and pure good - and as stated before, MIB is pure evil. MIB is missing a body, he mimics other bodies when he is not in the form of smoke. He stated that Jacob (the devil as he stated) STOLE his body. Some how this child, Jacob\MIB combo, eventually (probably when he gains the position as island protector) let his dark side split from himself into the form of the black cloud. And instead of battling between evil and good within himself, he battled as good against the darkness. This explains why MIB cannot kill Jacob - because they are one in the same.
+
*The child is Jacob. The child is MIB. Every man balanced their scale between light and dark, good and evil. Jacob is pure light and pure good - and as stated before, MIB is pure evil. MIB is missing a body, he mimics other bodies when he is not in the form of smoke. He stated that Jacob (the devil as he stated) STOLE his body. Some how this child, Jacob\MIB combo, eventually (probably when he gains the position as island protector) let his dark side split from himself into the form of the black cloud. And instead of battling between evil and good within himself, he battled as good against the darkness. This explains why MIB cannot kill Jacob - because they are one in the same. Also, Jacob and MIB are Aaron. MIB says that his mom was crazy just like Aarons mom. He goes on to say how that caused a lot of problems that could have been prevented. All the work MIB has done to get Aaron off the Island and out of the care of Claire is him trying to prevent what happened.
 
*The Kid seen in the jungle by Man in Black and Desmond is little Charlie. He's happy to see his Daddy (Desmond).
 
*The Kid seen in the jungle by Man in Black and Desmond is little Charlie. He's happy to see his Daddy (Desmond).
 
**Man in Black tells Desmond to ignore the Kid because he knows Desi will 'sense' who the Kid really is.
 
**Man in Black tells Desmond to ignore the Kid because he knows Desi will 'sense' who the Kid really is.

Revision as of 05:41, 15 April 2010

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Why Desmond Hit Locke

Deja Vu Flash

Desmond needs Locke to have a near-death experience like himself and Charlie to show them the existence of the original timeline. This is supported by Desmond's previous statement in "Happily Ever After" after giving the flight manifest to the driver that "[He] just need[s] to show them something."

Desmond was attempting to force a shift of consciousness for Locke between the timelines. This is supported by Sun's realization of her pregnancy in The Package. She wasn't referring to the Sideways Timeline, but the Original Timeline. This near-death experience brought back the memories of her pregnancy. Desmond somehow knows this and ran over Locke to trigger this phenomenon.

  • Actually Sun already knew she was pregnant before she was shot. She told Jin at the hotel there was something she wanted to tell him (the pregnancy) before they were interrupted by Keamy.

Déjà Vu Prior to Oceanic 815 Crash

  • Desmond was attempting to recreate the most traumatic event in Locke's main-timeline existence, his fall from an 8 story building at the hands of his father. In the alt-timeline, Locke's relations w/ father are seemingly good so we can assume his disability did not arise this way.
  • Desmond has no idea that Locke fell out of the building, because whenever Desmond would have seen Locke on the island he would have been walking. Desmond was trying to kill Locke because he believed Flocke was Locke when he pushed him in the well.


Déjà Vu After Oceanic 815 Crash

  • Desmond wants Locke to regain his ability to walk -- running him over is an excuse to get him to a hospital where spinal super surgeon Jack can work his magic. The moment alt-Locke regains his "footing" is the critical experience-parallel that will open his eyes à la Desmond, Charlie, Hurley, Faraday, etc.
  • Locke had no love on the island so giving him a near death experience was the only way to shift his mind to normal timeline Locke
    • It is not clear if Desmond is aware of who precisely Flocke is. He tells Flocke he is Locke, but it is possible he was lying to Flocke for his own purposes.
    • Or maybe this is a hint: Locke is part of Flocke... he's still in there somehow.
    • Locke arguably holds a characteristic unlike any of the other passengers on Oceanic 815. Most of our Losties (Jack, Hurley, Desmond, Charlie) have had someone that they loved on the Island in the OT. Even Ben could be argued to have had Alex as his sort of "love-themed constant" that would aid him in the memory recall that we're seeing in the Side-Timeline. In fact, as of yet, all the scenes showing us characters recalling memories from the OT are intimate and romantic. Which raises the question: What memories would come fleeting back to Locke? As strange as it sounds, Locke's closest "love" or "companion" on the Island in the OT was the Island itself.
      • Not all of the memories were of love. Desmond's first one was of Charlie drowning. Then later when he met Penny, he had a love one.
        • The Charlie memory, however, was related to Penny (The note on Charlie's hand).
      • To take it a step further- perhaps alt-Locke will merge with pre-MiB Locke meaning we will have the revival of the Locke everyone loves.

Revenge

  • Since Desmond's mind is aware of two time-lines and he thought Man in Black was the real Locke, he wanted to take revenge on Locke for throwing him into the well in OT.
    • It is not clear Desmond believes Flocke is Locke.
    • This seems less likely as Desmond has now found his purpose. He did not appear angry or distressed when he ran down Locke. He seemed to have a very good reason for doing it.
    • Or probably Desmond, somehow, knows that Locke and Jack will meet at the hospital, and this encounter (and a physical touch) will lead both to remember the Island timeline.
      • People in the FST can only become cognizant of the OT in one of two ways: A) Due to a near death experience or B)Feeling a love for the first time in the FST with a character they loved on the island in the OT (or re-connecting with their constant if you like). Locke will now have his near death experience and remember in the hospital but Jack will not. Jack will have to wait for his presumed re-connection with Kate before he eventually remembers (as will Kate, killing two birds with one stone as we're running out of episodes now). Which leaves A) Sawyer, B)Sun and C)Jin as the only ones left to remember: A) Sawyer's need to remember opens the door for a possible 'three-way' memory retention scene where Jack, Kate and Sawyer all meet up in the one spot (How about Sawyer arresting Kate and somehow winding up at the hospital in a room with Jack anyone?) B) Sun has a bullet lodged deep in her bladder and so she can't hold on much longer (...thank you!), this near death experience will cause her to remember quite shortly as Jin will presumably be by her side as she fights for her life C) Jin will realise his true love for Sun as he watches her nearly slip away from him and this will be the push he needs to remember the OT. If you argue that Sawyer and Kate wind up at the hospital (which might be a stretch but just go with me on this) you can have an excuse for Locke, Jack, Jin, Sun, Sawyer and Kate being at the hospital at the same time. For giggles, let's assume Desmond finds his way there to keep an eye on Locke *(who he intentionally put in the hospital to have him awaken to the OT - as Locke had no love interest on the island, his was always back on the mainland, the only option for Locke was to go with a near death experience, love always seemed to be a step too far away for him, then all you need is an excuse for Hurley to get there and you can have the whole crew in the one spot for one big scene of "Hey, I kind of remember you"
        • I don't think Jack's connection is with Kate. His beef has always been with Locke, he's always had a more meaningful connection with him in their disagreements. Whereas with Kate, he had a life with her but off the island. The one that had a deep connection with Kate was Sawyer, and that's hinted throughout Sawyer's FST because he didn't have that jolt with Charlotte. It's Kate and Sawyer, Jack and Locke, Charlie has to find Claire, and for Sun and Jin it's their baby.
        • He hit Locke to make Locke remember the other timeline. If you'll notice the look on Locke's face when Jacob touched him in "The Incident," you'll notice that he had a similar look after Desmond hit him. Since Locke was with his soulmate in the alt. timeline, he needed to be reminded in some other way.
          • Not only will Locke remember the other timeline, but he will probably be able to walk like on the island.
            • There is nothing that supports this theory. Memories being "remembered" is a different thing entirely from regaining the ability to walk from another reality.
            • Of course there is. How do you think Locke regained his ability to walk in the first season: it was the impact from falling off the plane. A similar impact will take him back to that moment. If anything his look after he got ran over was exactly the shock he had when he could see his toes moving in the first season.
              • Locke regained his ability to walk due to the nature of the island, not from the impact. That is one of the reasons why he became a "man of faith". And after he went back to LA, he was is a wheelchair again. So the only place where he can walk is the island.
  • Some great points in here. I agree that hitting Locke with the car is Desmond's way to get Locke to the hospital, but I think it is so Jack and fix his spine, like you said, making it possible for him to walk again. and by the two of them connecting, both Locke and Jack start to remember their island pasts.
    • This is killing "two birds with one stone". Locke will meet with Jack at the hospital and Desmond will be arrested or questioned by Miles and Sawyer.
  • Another theory would be that Desmond was really trying to kill Locke in the FST. We have never seen what would happen to a dead body on the island if it's FST person is killed...
    • Maybe real Locke shows back up on the island.
    • In support of this is the manner in which Desmond hit Locke with the car. He accelerated to a very fast speed and turned on impact, as if to maximize the damage to Locke. Seemed a bit much if his goal was to only hurt him.
    • Or, it's like recreating the shock of falling off the building after his dad pushed him off. Maybe it's time for Jacob to appear to his rescue just like when he lost his ability to walk in the OT.
  • Fake Locke comes to the island in the form of real Locke. Thus Desmond killing real Locke would prevent Fake Locke from making the transition. Fake Locke realizes this so he tries to kill Desmond by tossing him down the well.
  • It makes no sense to say that near death experience and love interests are the only two ways to trigger an "OT recall" based only on the fact that these are the only two ways we've seen it happen. Why would this phenomenon arbitrarily have only two unrelated means of triggering it? More likely is that the OT recall is triggered when an incident in the FST mirrors one in the OT regarding something of great emotional significance. OT Charlie nearly died by asphyxiation and was revived by Jack, when the same thing happens to FST Charlie it triggers the "recall". When FST Desmond sees Charlie drowning behind a glass window, that triggers his first OT flash. It happens again when he's bombarded with magnetism, and a third time when he touches Penny. Three events of great significance to Desmond which mirror events or circumstances in the OT. Same thing with Daniel and with Hurley. It isn't just love and near-death events, it's anything emotionally significant to the character. Leads me to think that FST Alex is probably going to die.
    • It makes "no sense"? There are plenty of instances of binary or dual relationships in the Lost franchise. The whole series from episode to episode is peppered with Good/Bad, Yin/Yang, FreeWill/Fate, Black/White, etc. Why not Love and death (or near death) being the primary ways of connecting FS Losties to their OT memories? I'm not 100% married to the idea, but "it makes no sense" stretches it the other way.
  • You're all forgetting that Juliet was the first person who knew of the FST. When she died Miles tells Sawyer that Juliet wanted Sawyer to know that "it (the bomb) worked". She probably didn't survive because her character doesn't exist in the FST. So then how did she come to know of the FST when she doesn't even exist in it?
  • Desmonds intentions in hitting Locke with the the car were to kill him for what Flocke did in the OT, however Locke will not die, and end up being cured by Jack, triggering his memory of the OT.

Disrupting MiB's Plans

  • fLocke will attempt to use the sideways timeline as his way of escape from the island and Desmond was attempting to kill the vessel he would escape to (FST Locke's body)
    • At the beginning of the episode, Desmond said to Fake Locke "You are John Locke"; In a previous episode this season, Ilana said that the MIB cannot change from John Locke's body; So - in the island reality, MIB IS John Locke; Everyone on the island has an alternate self in the alternate universe; So, in order to trap the MIB (John Locke) on the island, Desmond has to remove John Locke from the alternate universe to keep MIB from being able to exist there; Therefore, Desmond attempted to kill John Locke by running him down with his car.
    • There are easier and less conspicuous ways to kill a man than by hitting him with a car, and if something like the fate of the known universe lies in FST Locke dying I'd hope Desmond would have had the sense to put that car in reverse and make sure he finished the job. Desmond wasn't trying to kill John Locke, otherwise he'd be dead.

Getting Jack To Fix Him

Desmond knew Locke would be brought to the nearest hospital after he hit him. In Happily Ever After, Desmond saw Jack at the hospital so he's trying to bring Jack and Locke together so that Jack can fix him. After Jack gave Locke his card in LAX, people thought that Locke would be fixed by Jack but after Helen ripped the card, some gave up that hope. But now Desmond is trying to get Locke to go to Jack's hospital forcefully so he can be healed.

  • This sort of idea may indeed happen and coming episodes will reveal if this is the case, however, it is unjustified claim. Some people seem to have this idea that Desmond wakes up every morning, enlightened, inspired, and becoming all-knowing. I really do not think this is the case, in fact, I think Desmond is the simplest straight-forward thinking of all our characters. He's seen so much shit and he questions very little of it. Therefore, it is my belief that Desmond is no more human than anyone else, and actually doesn't know anything more than we do about the various situations surrounding Lost at this moment.
    • It is a simple plan: Guy from the plane works at the hospital, put another guy from the plane in the hospital so they can meet. Just because he doesn't question much doesn't mean he isn't picking things up as he goes along.
      • Well, its a stretch. You have to assume:

I. that, Desmond knows Locke's condition can be fixed by conventional science,

II. that, Jack is a spinal surgeon.

III. that, Locke will even be rushed to Jack's hospital.

IV. that, Jack will even be working on that particular day and time!

  • Desmond doesn't necessarily have to be "all-knowing" or know every detail of how the characters will meet and what they will do -- in fact, it's likely Desmond has no idea how this will go down. However, he knows that destiny will somehow bring them together given that they will be reminded of their alt. lives. All Desmond is thinking is getting Locke to the hospital (a place of significance given Desmond, Jack, and Charlie met there). Increasingly, the idea of "faith" in the unfolding series of events is taking center stage -- ie Desmond; Jack following Hugo -- and one doesn't need to "know" anything; they follow their intuition and just act accordingly.
    • One would expect that he might have wanted to talk to Locke first about going to the hospital and meeting someone there before, you know, trying to kill him for no apparent reason.

And like any poor theory, too many assumptions hold true. It makes more sense that Desmond is doing things on what we know rather on what we assume. He is trying to get the passengers of Oceanic 815 to wake up. His brutal manner in running him down may seem sadistic at first, but really, this life doesn't even matter, so who cares if Desmond has to run him down, it's not even 'real.' However, having said that, I do agree that Locke will end up in Jack's operating room. But its just important to note that its not part of Desmond's plan or forward thinking, this is just another Lost cosmic coincidence or as its simply known as, fate.

  • In addition Desmond's method isn't anymore brutal than Charlie's. Lost is presenting us with another dichotomy or yin/yang scenario. There are two ways for the FST Oceanics to connect to their OT timelines:
Love
Pain, brutality, near death experience

Because Locke is dead in the OT

  • In the FST he attempts to kill locke to show him that it is his place to die
  • Desmond is reconciling the two timelines by reuniting all of the lovers from flight 815. Killing Locke in the FST is also necessary to reconcile with the OT where Locke is dead.

Because FST Locke is MiB

  • When watched in slow motion, when Desmond is seconds from hitting Locke with the car, the look on Locke's face is not surprise, but anger, very much a FLocke expression. MiB's way of escaping the island involved being able to live as a normal human being in the FST - as John Locke, something Desmond is now aware of.

Fake Locke Cannot Leave the Island

  • Fake Locke will never be allowed to leave the island. With Michael's appearance we learned that the 'voices' are those trapped on the Island for wrongdoing. The appearance of the mysterious boy earlier in the season now has some value when he said "you broke the rules". The boy understands what Flocke is trying to do, but Flocke is bound to the island, just like those who have done wrong before. Whether or not you can be absolved of any wrongdoing is still uncertain, however because Flocke has murdered and manipulated so many, he cannot leave.
    • The boy never said "you broke the rules", he said: "You know the rules".
    • Flocke's "evil" is why he is imprisoned on the Island. Its not so much what he did as what he was as to why a prison was made for him.
      • I think i recall Shannon hearing the whispers, then Walt appearing, even though he was very much alive. Isn't there a chance Michael is lying?
        • This could be either because Walt is "special" in some way and can project himself/talk to anyone, anywhere; or it was MiB impersonating Walt.
        • The whispers are those who have not "moved on." When people are projecting themselves, we are already into the sci-fi territory. It is possible that the act of projecting yourself, like Walt did, had some sort of parallel/alternate "dimension"-type effect, and allowed the whispers to bleed through into reality.
    • This theory revives the discredited "island as purgatory" theory. See, e.g., Purgatory (debunked theory). Assuming he is not lying to Hurley, if Michael's comment is to be interpreted as stating that the whisperers are "lost souls" seeking redemption, this would be a MAJOR revision to the Lost canon.
      • Like Hurley said, those gone are more reliable than those who are alive. There doesn't seem to be a reason why Michael, who went back in the island to sacrifice himself in order to redeem himself, would even lie to Hurley. He even told him not to get himself killed, why would he do that? How would the souls that are lost on the island even seek redemption?
      • The discredited theory is specifically that all the characters are dead and the island is purgatory. That is different than the theory presented here, that the island serves as purgatory for some of the characters, such as Michael, who are unambiguously dead.
        • The Purgatory idea provided here and by Michael is that purgatory, or the inability to move on, is not a place (island) but a state of being

Hurley's Visitors

  • The only dead people who have appeared to Hurley are those who have killed on the island. Hurley has been visited by Charlie (killed Ethan), Eko (killed an Other), Anna Lucia (killed Shannon), Michael (Libby & Anna Lucia). Hurley has also been visited by Jacob, who we don't know to have killed anyone, but Jacob may be appearing to Hurley for different reasons.
  • He talked to Richard's wife. She never came to the island.
    • Hurley can only talk to people who have not "moved on". People such as Michael, Charlie, etc. have not "moved on" due to their killing. Richard's wife may have failed to "move on" for another reason.
      • There are two reasons for spirits not moving on. Either A) following Egyptian mythology they have not figured out how to successfully navigate the afterlife to reach peace or B) The Island is not done with them.
        • Michael told Hugo that he couldn't "move on" because of what he'd done, clearly referring to his killing of Libby and Anna Lucia. That could relate somehow to the island not being done with them, but that's just speculation. All we know at this point is what Michael has stated, that he's prevented from moving on because of what he'd done.
          • This might explain why Libby doesn't appear to him. She never did anything wrong so her body has moved on.
  • His friend Dave has visited him as well
    • Dave was actually MIB trying to get Hurley to commit suicide because he knows how important Hurley is to Jacob.
    • This definitely fits into the profile of the MiB as he uses disguises and fear tactics. Convincing Hurley he is crazy is similar to convincing Richard the island was Hell

........It is reasonable to assume that all of the dead people who make an appearance on the island --including Jacob and Richard's wife -- are incarnations of Flocke. We know from the story line that Flocke is capable of assuming the forms of dead people. He assumed the form of Ben's island adopted dead daughter to manipulate Ben into following Flocke. He assumed the form of Jack's dead father to manipulate Locke and Ben into moving the island and establishing the conditions which would make his pan work. And he assumed the form of dead Jacob to manipulate Hurley into doing things which served Flocke's interests. In short, all of these characters are moving events in a way which suits Flocke. And the most impresive incarnation is assuming the form of Michael to convince Hurley to stop Ilana from destroying the plane and then to lead all of the remaining candidates to Flocke's camp. He is the master manipulator but like most manipulators he cannot see the whole picture.

  • Except we have already been told by Ilana after Jacob was killed, that MIB can no longer change his face. So all visions hurley has seen since then must be actual visions of the dead.

Taking Flocke's Extended Hand Carries Significance

  • Flocke is often extending his hand to people (he's now extended it to each of the candidates). It is very obvious each time it happens, so it is not a coincidence. However, nobody had actually grabbed his extended hand until Desmond. Maybe the rules of the island are that MIB can't harm (or even touch, for that matter) a candidate, unless they willingly "follow him," as signified by the candidate literally taking Flocke's hand. Since Desmond took Flocke's offered hand, Flocke was able to harm Desmond (i.e. push him down the well). Desmond probably knew something like this would happen and knowingly took Flocke's hand realizing what it would allow to happen.
    • The extended hand is simply a depiction of the choice being offered to follow MIB, or join his side. There are two sides in a war both trying to convice people to fight for their side. This extended hand is a common event, but it is not some rule or anything like that. It's just MIB's method of trying to appear as though he can help those who he offers his hand to. It's part of his con, to gain trust, thats all it is.

FST CONSCIOUSNESS TO THE RESCUE!

  • Desmond is trying and eventually will force Locke's FST consciousness into the OT. That way Flocke become Locke again but merged with the original consciousness of the MIB so that he is the MIB but with consciousness of Locke. Locke is going to come back as Locke. Especially because of Jacks "Yeah, I know Locke, and I wouldn't give up on him yet" line during the Season 5 finale. This way, Jack will become the new Jacob, and Locke is the new MIB, but instead of warring with each other, they will peacefully coexist. Black and White. Yin and Yang.
    • He is just trying to make mostly everybody on Flight 815 aware of the other side by making things happen like they did in the original timeline.
    • Flocke cannot become the real Locke. He has not taken or possessed Locke's body. He has simply taken his form. Remember - they made a point of showing Smokey walk by the real Locke's body when he looked like Locke. They've even buried the real Locke. FLOCKE IS NOT LOCKE!
      • This is true; however, MIB does have all of Locke's past thoughts and memories. He is, in effect, the real John Locke plus MIB's personality on top of it (or merged with it, if you prefer). Remove MIB from that equation and you are potentially left with the original Locke.
        • Remove MIB from that equation and the equation is broken. Remove MIB from that equation and the real John Locke is still 6 feet under.
        • The MIB, like Jacob, seems to have a thorough knowledge about the lives of all the candidates, so there is not sufficient cause to assume the MIB actually has Locke's thoughts and memories.
        • But, MIB does use words that the real John Locke did; for example, "don't tell me what I can't do." Isn't that a hint that the real Locke is still trapped somewhere in there? How is it that there can be a clone of the same body anyway? Maybe something to do with a time traveling Locke.
        • MiB could only effect his 'loophole' plan by taking the physical form of a person. He did say there were certain things about John Locke and his attitude towards the island that made him different. In order to deceive/convince others he needed to behave like the real John Locke sometimes and the "don't tell me what I can't do" attitude is very much like MiB's nature against Jacob. Should the FST John locke be drawn to the island because he sees himself as being able to walk in that timeline, or should he see his death and Flocke; the decisions he makes will be the true game changer.
  • It is possible that FST Locke dying could cause him to resurrect in the OT. All the jokes that Damon Lindelof and Carleton Cuse keep making about a "Zombie Season" could actually be a hint of this happening. Seeing Locke's hand come out of the dirt a-la-"Kill Bill vol. 2" would be classic!
  • He is trying to recreate their most important moments at which point they'll remember their island memories. When Desmond's car went underwater Charlie's scene was recreated which made Desmond remember some memories.Hurley's date with Libby and the kiss made him remember his memories. Similarly he is trying to make Locke remember his island self by leaving him on the road with his back broken.
    • Then Desmond is pretty crude...and I thought it was about love. You know...meeting the woman you love.
      • It's not about Love. It's about what makes everyman tick. Some have that with love, others have that with drowning (desmond and charlie), and others have it with a traumatic incident such as coming very close to dying.

Libby

Why did Libby choose to be in Santa Rosa in the FST?

  • Because she was seeing memories from events that never took place. She thought she was losing her marbles.

Desmond's Master Conundrum

Desmond is proved to be invincible and unable to be defeated. He has incited fear in John Locke, and poses a danger to Flocke's plan to leave the island. Flocke is unable to survive higher levels of energy. The young child smiles because Jacob is winning. Winning the war of course. If one is able to actively leave the island, then that person takes on the role of Jacob. Jacob shared the island with others while MIB wants to prevent that.

  • Desmond being "invincible" is outlandish, and there is no evidence to support this theory.
  • Desmond is not invincible. He just doesn't care about the OT any more, because he saw a way cooler life...and that's why he's so lethargic.

The kid in the jungle

  • The child is Jacob. The child is MIB. Every man balanced their scale between light and dark, good and evil. Jacob is pure light and pure good - and as stated before, MIB is pure evil. MIB is missing a body, he mimics other bodies when he is not in the form of smoke. He stated that Jacob (the devil as he stated) STOLE his body. Some how this child, Jacob\MIB combo, eventually (probably when he gains the position as island protector) let his dark side split from himself into the form of the black cloud. And instead of battling between evil and good within himself, he battled as good against the darkness. This explains why MIB cannot kill Jacob - because they are one in the same. Also, Jacob and MIB are Aaron. MIB says that his mom was crazy just like Aarons mom. He goes on to say how that caused a lot of problems that could have been prevented. All the work MIB has done to get Aaron off the Island and out of the care of Claire is him trying to prevent what happened.
  • The Kid seen in the jungle by Man in Black and Desmond is little Charlie. He's happy to see his Daddy (Desmond).
    • Man in Black tells Desmond to ignore the Kid because he knows Desi will 'sense' who the Kid really is.
  • In a previous episode the Kid tells Man in Black, "You can't kill him". The 'him' he was referring to was Desmond.
  • The kid in this episode is not the same kid as before. The kid in The Substitute had bright, blond hair. This kid had darker, dirty hair, and it did not look like the same actor, at all.
    • It was the same actor - same face, eyes and eyebrows, just his hair looked a little darker - but it is dirty blonde not bright blonde.
    • IMDB confirms that it is the same actor. So his different hair color means something. i won't link to IMDB because there are spoilers there. But it is the same actor.
      • There are two distinctly different kids that have appeared, firstly a younger Jacob (blonde/yin) and secondly a younger MIB (brunette/yang). MIB clearly did not want to face his younger self, hence imploring Desmond to ignore him and becoming quite agitated with his younger self's presence. MIB has clearly strayed from the path he was born to fulfill, i.e act as co-caretaker of the island with Jacob, and does not like to be reminded of his once innocent and pure self (albeit however long ago that was). Previously (...on Lost) younger Jacob had to remind MIB: "You know the rules" to ensure that he doesn't break any protocol whereas younger MIB simply said nothing to his older self, seeming mildly amused and showing slightly bemused non-approval to what he had become. Jacob and MIB were the original 'special' kids and brothers of sorts, but their paths have deviated a la biblical Jacob and Esau, as well as Cain and Abel, with MIB being the new age Cain after having a heavy hand in his 'brother's' death despite not actually holding the knife himself.
        • The Mysterious Boy is the same boy Sawyer and MiB saw earlier in Season 6. In Everybody Loves Hugo, he appears to have aged and grown. Possibly a reincarnation of Jacob.
          • It's only been a couple days, Island-time.
            • He's a very mysterious "boy" that has a lot of knowledge about the island, maybe more than everyone except MiB and Jacob, conventional rules (i.e. "only a couple days passing") most likely do not apply to him.
      • The Mysterious Boy only shows himself to candidates; that's why Richard wasn't able to see him, whereas Desmond did see. That means Desmond is the last recruit and new candidate to replace Jacob. Also there's a subtle look on his face while he's looking at Desmond, which can be inferred as this: MIB does not actually know everything, though it seems he does; and that'd be the twist.
      • Desmond Hume is not a candidate, however he is a "Constant", a link to all candidates, be either bringing them to the island (failed to press numbers in time, leading plane to crash) and now in Sideways Flash bringing the Candidates together (ordering flight manifest from George). He is also linked to the island through the Widmores (Penny, Daniel, Eloise, Charles). Although not a Candidate, certainly a crucial piece of the puzzle, so the Island allows him to see the Jungle Kid.
        • Desmond would almost be acting as a gatekeeper to the Island, making sure that whomever needs to be there finds there way.
        • The kid smiles because this time MiB's actions are going exactly as planned, and the constant, Desmond, is doing exactly what he is supposed to and going where he is supposed to be for a reason.
  • The kid is a young MIB. While in the jungle he appeared to be grasping a walking stick, similar to the one FLocke was whittling earlier.
    • The kid was not grasping a walking stick, he had his hand on a tree.
    • The kid is MIB's lost humanity. He was tricked into his imprisonment after doing something he believed to be right, probably having to do with love. Now MIB is being haunted by what he was now that he has a permanent shape and ran so far away from what he was.
      • And the blond version of the kid is young Jacob - so that blond kid and dark-haired kid (Jacob and MIB) are twin brothers, who always had a reason to be rivals and have been playing "the game" since then. Now, when the blond kid appeared to FLocke he had to stop his plan of killing Sawyer, while when the dark-haired kid appeared to him, he went on with his plan to get rid of Desmond
  • The kid is Claire´s son, Aaron, who was born on the Island. Aaron is the last remaining piece in the puzzle because he had to return to the Island. When the kid says "You know the rules, you can´t kill him" he obviously refers to Jacob, who cannot be killed. He will always find a replacement.

Ben vs. Desmond outside school

  • In the FST when Ben is questioning Desmond outside the school, he obviously makes direct eye contact with the Oceanic Flight 815 manifest either in Desmond's lap or passenger seat.

Ben also appear to remember something, he clearly started to stutter and mumble "mmh" sounds when first talking to Desmond.

  • I think Ben was worried he had a snazzy dressed paedo on his hands to deal with.
    • Which can also explain the anxious glance at Desmond's lap.
  • Desmond says that his son's name is "Charlie" (a) because he has conscious memories of the Original Timeline (b) because it was the first name that he could think of, since his latest adventure started when he met Charlie

Hurley's Sack

  • The sack is the same sack found on Adam and Eve in series one and contains the black and white stones.
  • After Ilana blows up, Hurley is seen going through her personal effects. He stumbles upon a sack containing white stones. One for every Candidate left on the island that Ilana needed to protect.
    • On the white stones are the names of the Candidates. Written in black ink.
    • Yes, earlier on in the season we saw Locke throw a stone into the ocean saying it was an "inside joke."
  • Inside the sack are Jacob's ashes, which Ilana previously collected in The Substitute.
    • Most definitely the sack with Jacob's ashes and maybe some other ash. It cannot be little stones with names on it because Ilana was a bit vague on who the exact candidates were, at least with the Kwons.
      • The Kwon in question of candidacy is Jin for sure. Jacob has been watching them since they were little children. At that point Sun's last name was Paik. Jin is the candidate.
        • However, Jacob touched them both on the day they were married, meaning when they "became" candidates they're last names were both Kwon.
        • Perhaps Jin and Sun are considered to be one character (like Rosencratz and Guildenstern)
  • It can´t be ash because you could hear the stones thrum around.
    • After re-watching the scene with the sound on max, you're right, there are some faint stone moving sounds.
      • That's true BUT, if you watch the episode in which Ilana takes Jacob ashes, you also ear some stone moving sounds when she picks them up and you can see that it's the same bag.
        • The sounds are pieces of bone that were not totally burned by the fire. Even when people are cremated in real life, the body is placed in a special chamber where temperatures range between 1800°F - 2000°F and burn for about 2 hours until the body is reduced to ash and many bone fragments, the bones never completely burn to ashes - they break up, splitter but not turn into ash. This was the noise heard, not black/white rocks.http://www.everlifememorials.com/v/urns/cremation-process.htm
          • This is generally true, however, it doesn't seem to apply to Jacob. He seems to have utterly and entirely been disintegrated in what, a matter of minutes? Clearly, there are some special properties surrounding Jacob and his ashes given his unique transformation from flesh to ash.
            • Maybe Jacobs power is the power of super-speed-cremation.

Desmond/Locke

  • It appears that when FLocke initially embarks on his excursion with Desmond, that he's doing what he's done time and time before. Journeying through the jungle, talking about good and evil, maybe he'll treat you to some scrumptious boar, or show you a cave on the side of a cliff, or even an ancient well. Regardless of the method, Flocke's goal is always to try to lure and manipulate people in believing (in) him. However, at the well, once the theatrics were done, Flocke appeared significantly distressed by Demsond's light-hearted responses and his overall invulnerability in being afraid at that moment. Flocke's failure in swaying Desmond's heart infuriated him. This, ironically, made Flocke fearful of what Desmond may be capable of. After all, if Flocke merely had the sole intention of killing Desmond, he could have done it much earlier
    • Desmond could be a candidate now, meaning MiB cannot kill him.
      • The candidates do not change.
  • Desmond knows that Locke is the MiB. He simply told him he believed he was Locke to trick him.
  • "You're John Locke" should be interpreted as "You're 'John Locke'" -- a deliberate non-answer and both of them know it.
  • Desmond seemed to know that his fate was to end up in the well. He willingly went with Sayid, and again went willingly with Locke and 'wasn't even afraid.'
    • Desmond knows what will happen, so he knows that whatever is happening is supposed to happen. Thus he just goes along with it all because somehow he knows where it will all lead to.
  • Once Desmond asks "What is the point of being afraid?", FLocke realizes he may be someone that proves Jacob's point that not everyone is inherently corrupt.
  • Flocke is afraid of Desmond. Those that are not afraid of Flocke are a threat to him. He requires the control, with Desmond there is none. Desmond is able to withstand Electromagnetic Flashes, so far. Flock may be testing him to see if he can survive another one.
  • Desmond knew Flocke would push him down the well, and allowed it to happen because he wanted to be exposed to the electromagnetic energy, which will allow him to reconnect with the FST, just as when Widmore exposed him to it in the shack.
    • It's not possible that Desmond knew that FLocke would do that. If he really did gain any information from his time in the wooden shack, it would be about the Side-Timeline, not back and forth in the OT as we have seen Desmond do before. It appeared that Desmond did not know Flocke was going to do that because frankly, I don't even think FLocke knew he was going to do that! As said and implied by others, throwing Desmond down the well was a more improvised maneuver rather than calculated.
      • Sorry for being unclear. I didn't mean Desmond "knew" Flocke would push him down the well in the sense of having a prophetic vision; I meant "knew" inasmuch as anyone might ordinarily "know" what someone else would do in a given situation. Perhaps "expected" would have been a better word. In any case, it explains why Desmond wasn't afraid of Locke.
      • In addition, if the people who built the well did not find anything down there, what do you expect Desmond to find? If this well turns out to be a well with a frozen chamber/wheel, then FLocke may have made a mistake by putting Desmond in the same vicinity as that power. However, there may be nothing at all down there, a dead end.
  • It can easily be argued that of all the people we've met on the Island Desmond is the most inherently good. Almost everything he has done has either been for someone else (mostly Penny) of the greater good (pushing the button for all those years without asking). Desmond will be the individual who proves Jacob right.
    • To prematurely counter act the "Hurley's a good guy" argument: Hurley's greed (one of the seven deadly sins) led him to "steal" the numbers to win the lottery, and this gluttony (another one of those deadly sins) caused him to lie about hoarding away supplies when they first landed on the Island.

The Well:Frozen Donkey Wheel

  • Desmond is in the well with the Frozen Donkey Wheel
    • Unlikely as the frozen wheel is located beneath the Orchid at this point in time.
    • Counterpoint: John Locke went down (presumably) the same well to reach the frozen donkey wheel in The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham.
      • No that well was filled (prior to '54 but after 1860) in modern times. Flocke said there are many wells (probably conforming to the pockets that Jin had mapped out with Dharma), as said above the Orchid sits on the donkey wheel well.
        • Maybe there's more than one frozen donkey wheel.
          • There might be, if we assume every well on the island has its own donkey wheel. If we are to believe what Flocke tells Des: "This is not the only well".

The Well:A new well

  • Desmond is in a different well with an as-yet unseen device inside of it
  • The well is what it seems: it was created a long time ago to access one of the electromagnetic pockets that Jin mapped.
  • Pushing Desmond down the well into the electromagnetic anomaly is Locke's way of killing him without him remaining on the island as a whisper (However, unknown to Locke, Desmond can survive this). Once Desmond hits the pocket of energy he awakes back in FST.
  • The wells are connected via underground tunnels. These same tunnels are the Cerberus Vents. Because of MiB's inability to withstand the EM pylons, perhaps the tunnels were a way of routing the monster around the island, in effect, a way to control and direct the "security system" by utilizing the Electromagnetism found in each well.
  • Being in the well of electromagnetism might allow Desmond the ability to bring knowledge from the OT into the FST. This may explain the *ahem* harsher introduction to Locke in the FST. Dez knew he was a bad man.

The Well: A Reference to Genesis / Thomas Mann's "Joseph" Tetralogy/Murakami's "Windup Bird Chronicle"

  • Desmond being thrown into the well corresponds to the biblical Joseph, son of Jakob, being imprisoned in the well by his half-brothers.
  • The first novel of German author Thomas Mann's Joseph Tetralogy, "Die Geschichten Jaakobs", chronicling the events around Jakob and Joseph as told in Genesis, begins with a literary prelude titled "descent into hell" - "Deep is the well of history", supposed to lead the reader deep into the founding myth's of the history of mankind. Desmond, having demonstrated an awareness of the depths of his world(s), is thus related both to the Joseph character and to the narrator in Thomas Mann's novel.)
  • In Haruki Murakami's novel "The Windup Bird Chronicle" the protagonist spends several days in the bottom of a dry well on the site of "spiritual disturbances." At the bottom of the well, the character can fall through into another alternate reality.

The Well: Construction

  • FLocke explains to Desmond that the well is very old, and that old explorers dug to find out what made their compasses flip out. However, he also adds that they did not find what they were looking for. Then what is the deal with the frozen wheel? Are the people who built the well the same people who built the frozen wheel? This is starting to seem unlikely. The people built the well were looking for that wheel/pocket and never found it. The only group to get closest to finding what they were looking for was the Dharma during drilling in the Orchid. Therefore, if even the earliest explorers dug and found nothing, and so did the Dharma basically, then can one assume that the Frozen Wheel was never actually built by any 'man.' It would appear to be more inherent to the island, almost part of its natural habitat..
    • however, Ben and presumably the Others knew about the Frozen Wheel. For how long they've known or how is still a mystery. It is possible they found out through Dharma, only after Dharma had initially discovered it.

Ilana Goes Boom

As Ben rewardingly points out, Ilana - hand-picked by Jacob himself, to come and serve a purpose, dies horribly. Why and possibly, who/what is responsible?

Jacob?

  • It would seem unlikely that Jacob was responsible in killing Ilana, but perhaps he is guilty of not intervening in saving her life.
    • Jacob is dead. He's not responsible for killing her or for choosing not to save her. He couldn't do either. Perhaps if he were still alive, she wouldn't have died a horrible death.
  • After-all, Ilana describes her relationship with Jacob as father and daughter
  • However, he did tell Ilana to look to Richard for the next move, which leads him to reach the conclusion that they need to procure dynamite, which inevitably leads to Ilana man-handling the explosives and paying the price.
    • But, what if the point was for Ilana to blow up so Hurley would destroy the rest of the dynamite? What if Jacob knew Richard would want to destroy the plane, so he told Ilana to ask Richard what to do, which would lead Ilana to get the dynamite, explode, and inspire Hurley's actions?
    • This bothers me for 2 reasons:
      • A: Seems incredibly twisted, even for Jacob's taste.
      • B: If you re-watch the episode, it's Michael's appearance that inspires Hurley and sets him on his path

Hurley

This theory is predicated on the "Hurley has already replaced Jacob" theory. Perhaps it isn't the Island which has been manipulating events. Perhaps it was Jacob. (We can clearly see some of MiB's interactions with the Losties since Day 1. Perhaps Jacob has been involved as well.) Since Hurley has taken over for Jacob, he is now able to will some events to happen. When Ilana presents the dynamite, he unconsciously wills her to explode to warn the rest away from the dynamite.

FLocke/MiB? maybe after llana got killed she woke up in a Russian hospital with jacob standing over her.

  • FLocke's main victims have come directly through brute force via the smoke monster.
  • FLocke has not been seen to be able to exert the power to jam revolvers or prevent someone from dying
    • He does loosen the rope binding Ben's arms in the Dr. Linus episode.
    • However, right before the Kahana explodes, Christian Shepard appears before Michael and tells him he can go now. As we know, there is some existing relationship/connection between C. Shepard and MiB.
      • Then it's doubtful that MiB and Christian are one and the same, because if they were, then MiB could have escaped off the island through the Kahana.
        • But they could be the same person, because he couldn't have escaped on the Kahana because, at that time, Jacob was still alive.
          • They can't be the same person, because Christian Shepard was at the barracks with Sun and Frank at the same time MiB was with Ben and Ilana at the Hydra infirmary.
            • He has to leave with every candidate, so he couldn't just go in the Kahana.
          • MIB cannot suddenly appear, he has to travel to where ever the Avatar he uses shows up (think Eko and his brother). But MIB cannot travel across water (he cannot get to Hydra Island without a boat). Hence MIB could not have gotten to the Kahana unless he was on the Helicopter. MIB was not on the Helicopter.

Richard

  • As Richard himself points out, Jacob does not usually give specific instructions. Richard, not Jacob, is responsible for the dynamite idea, even if Jacob did instruct Ilana to pay heed to Richard. It was unnecessary for Richard to have Ilana fool around with unstable dynamite to begin with. A plane's delicate instrumentation can easily be destroyed by half a dozen determined people and even primitive tools/clubs.
    • Furthermore, wouldn't a logical group of individuals stop and say, "Hey, let's get Richard, the man who can't die, to handle all dynamite-carrying related business"? Don't put it in the hands of one the people we know is expendable (following candidate idea). But it could be just poor storytelling.
    • This implies that Richard Alpert and those with him are not aware of the presence of Charles Widmore and his Submarine on the island. Blowing up the plane leaves the submarine. Sawyer told Kate it was their ticket off the island. Until whoever chooses to lead, knows the full picture of what is going on with all the groups on the island, their actions will always be misguided or at best, a minor victory. Hurley in his confusion is likely making more headway by going to meet MiB, now they can make better decisions if Sawyer or Sayid fills them in on Widmore's presence on the Island. MiB will try to turn them against Charles Widmore in order to effect his escape and possibly rescue Jin if he is the candidate 'Kwon'. I suppose Hurley and Jack should be finding out who was coming to the island via the lighthouse incident and what means of transportation they are using, because Jacob told them about it.


The Island (Third Party Idea)

  • As Ben states clearly, "The Island was done with her." Perhaps neither Jacob nor MiB have the power to keep someone alive or allow them to die in some weird Final Destination type death. Perhaps it is exactly as Ben puts it, The Island, as an entity, has the power to eliminate players/candidates/characters once they fulfill some destined role.
    • This leads into the idea that Jacob and MiB are also players within the game and not the end-all be-all.
  • The island has been shown to be able to stop death (as seen in Black Rock scene with Jack and Richard or many suicide attempts of Michael and Jack off the island). It can easily be able to cause death as well.
    • But were those two situations the island stopping their deaths, or Jacob stopping their deaths? We know Jacob touched Jack, and made Richard immortal.
      • This is exactly a point that will have to be resolved before the end of the show, who sits on the top of the pyramid? As we have witnessed throughout the seasons, the show has baited the audience slowly on who exactly reigns over the island. At one point it was assumed to be Mr. Friendly, then Ben, some even then led to believe it was Richard, and then Jacob. Perhaps, one final surprise will reveal that even Jacob answers to somebody
  • Ilana had done exactly what Jacob asked her to do, protect the candidates and then let Richard do the leading after that. She had fulfilled her purpose. The island did not need her services anymore. Hugo did warn her about handling the dynamites. She did not listen to Hugo though Michael had told Hugo everyone was listening to him now. The book that was left in Ilana's bag speaks of freewill against determinism. Ilana was likely operating by her own free will at that point but did not know it. She made an unwise choice mishandling the dynamite sticks.This means that someone else may have the task of protecting the candidates(maybe Richard), or the candidates no longer need protection because things have changed. That is to say, the presence of Desmond has somehow triggered the endgame, he is the constant after all. Not a pleasant way to die, but her death seemed similar to the burn injuries she sustained when Jacob visited her a the hospital. She did not die then because she had work to do on the island for Jacob.

Don't Play with Fireworks

  • Perhaps it's as simple as dynamite is highly unstable and very combustible, end of story.
    • Richard took a stick and lit it on fire, it seems a great force is at will.
    • She trains for this and doesn't bother to put a bunch of sand in the bag with the highly unstable dynamite? Odd.
      • Richard can´t die! Everyone else should have been and was careful with TNT from the Black Rock in all of its various appearances, and some died anyway. Is she really so dumb as to just throw the bag down, or was it on purpose?
  • As stated above, half a dozen people or so don't need dynamite to render a plane unable to fly, a pair of wire cutters and a crowbar should do just fine. Michael told Hurley he was there to "stop them from blowing up the plane," not "stop them from keeping MIB on the island." Michael knew, perhaps from Jacob, that they needed to stop MIB from leaving, but not to use the dynamite to do so because of exactly what happened, the dynamite is unstable, unsafe, and can cause more harm than good considering there are other ways to keep the plane grounded.
    • One guy, who by the way can't die, with a knife and the willingness to pop a couple tires could solo disable the plane. It seems certain even MiB can't kill Richard. Why is Richard so intent on everybody doing this?
  • Alternatively, it's possible that Ilana killed herself intentionally. It wouldn't be surprising given her close relationship with Jacob, if he asked her to. She may have sacrificed herself knowing it would result in Hurley/Richard taking sides.

Course Correction

  • Her injuries when Jacob visited her in the hospital before probably should have killed her; however, the Island preserved her life. Once the Island was done with her, course correction set in and she is killed.

Reward

  • It could be Jacob's way of saying thank you and letting the person go (kinda twisted, but). If the Island and Jacob were done with her, they spared her the long process of dying and granted a painless (i never been blown up by the dynamite but I don't think Ilana felt anything). Hence she was thrown into the FST and chilling there getting all the goodies and perks of the universe where wishes are granted.
    • This assumes that Jacob is responsible for the FST and the subjective idea that the FST is 'good.' However, it seems likely that the FST is the 'wrong one' and will soon collapse as Desmond pushes on with his mission

Motives of the Spirits/Ghosts

General

  • Given that spirits appear and whispers are heard when something significant's going to happen, it would appear that they have the best perspective of what is happening on the island. Every now and again, they seem to have knowledge of future events (See Michael's motives below)
  • They may be trying to earn their way out of purgatory by helping out the living.
  • The spirits do not necessarily have good intentions, and they may not be trying to help out the living. Christian, the spirit we have seen the most, seems to have worked with the Man in Black and perhaps helped turn Claire crazy and to the MiB's side. From what we've seen of Christian, it seems likely that he has more evil intentions than good.
    • It is possible that all the spirits are evil and may be working with the Man in Black, including Michael.
    • Whether they are good or evil, Christian and Michael's spirits likely have the same motive for the advice they give to the Losties.
      • Not to start up the Christian/MiB debate again, but it is still very possible that what we have been seeing as Christian has really just been MiB. Hurley is the only person that actually sees dead people, so I don't think we can equate Christian's motives with Michael's because they very well might be completely different in nature (Michael is actually just dead Michael but Christian may be MiB).
        • The problem with that is Claire considers both the Man in Black and Christian as her friends, and since she was able to tell the difference between John Locke and the Man in Black in John Locke's form, it seems likely that she would be able to the difference between Christian and the Man in Black in Christian's form.

Michael's motives

  • Michael said he is trapped on the island. Maybe he can escape or be freed if the MiB leaves the island, and that is why he tells Hugo not to blow up the plane.
    • Perhaps he is now in the same situation as MiB, and therefore desires the same endgame. After all, they are apparently both stuck on the island.
  • Michael is lying. His definition of the whispers doesn't make sense. First, there is Walt, who appeared after the sounds of whispers when he was still alive; also, there is Mr. Eko's brother Yemi, who was dead, but was a priest and free of sin, and therefore shouldn't be trapped. Michael is either lying, or that's not Michael.
    • It's not Michael's explanation of the whispers. It's the "show's" explanation.
    • His definition of the whispers does make sense. Walt was special; we don't know exactly why, but the kid could kill birds with his mind. They asked if he had ever "been somewhere he wasn't supposed to be." Walt could probably either go between dimensions like Desmond or project more than one copy of himself. Yemi died before the plane crashed, and MIB was using Yemi's body to appear to Eko. Hurley can see dead people for crying out loud, Michael is dead. People have been speculating since the 3rd season that the whispers were people from previous loops.
  • Michael claimed that the whispers are tied in with people who are stuck on the island. MIB is indeed stuck on the island and therefore would be accompanied by the whispers. This would explain the reason why Walt and Yemi were accompanied by the whispers.
    • Yemi and Co. were accompanied by whispers not because of their source, (manifestations of the MiB) but simply the event or situation that is occurring. For example, the 'whispering ghosts' observe, converse and even perhaps try to warn characters of looming or impending danger, or some other significant happening. Having passed on, they probably do know more about the nature of the island then when they were alive. Therefore, when they witness the MiB manifesting and projecting to the characters, the whispers become direly concerned because they know the true reality of what/who the MiB is and are fearful for what the MiB might do to our Lost cast.
  • The Whispers are of all the souls that the Black Smoke has claimed on the island. I don't believe Hurley was talking to Michael, that was another manifestation of the MIB. I don't think Hurley understands the difference yet, but I beleive the whispers are the key to determining if it is the Black Smoke vs dead people visiting.
    • MIB can no longer take the form of other people, he is stuck as Locke.
    • This idea has some validation but perhaps its the other way around. Dead people accompanied by whispers, manifestations by MiB accompanied by nothing. Although, we have heard whispers during MiB/manifestation scenes. In addition, when Isabella appears before Hugo and Richard, no whispers are heard which seems a bit strange for Lost. It would seem the perfect place to put whispers in, especially given "Everybody Loves Hugo."
    • But Ilana says MiB cannot take any other form now once he has chosen to appear as the physical form of Locke. Doesn't that mean that he cannot appear as other people now but only change to his smoke form.
      • This is true. However, it does not answer to who's end these Whispers/Ghosts are working for. It does seem genuine that Michael is working to do good by Hugo and Co. While Christian, well, you get the picture.
        • There's no reason to assume that Michael is doing good. His advice contradicted Jacob's advice to follow Richard, and Jacob has proven to be a much better person than Michael. Michael could be leading Hurley right into a trap by having him talk to the Man in Black. Michael killed two innocent people to benefit himself, so if Michael benefits from the Man in Black getting off the island, I don't think he'd hesitate to deceive Hurley if that's what it takes.

Consequences

  • Choosing to not destroy the plane could result in these situations:
    1. MiB will kidnap/force the remaining candidates to get on the Ajira flight, ending everything.
    2. Hurley will sabotage the plane at the last minute.
    3. One or more of the non-candidates will be killed.
    4. Desmond will somehow prevent the plane from taking off.
    5. Richard's group will prevent the plane from taking off.
  • The plane is irrelevant. We know there's a submarine, even if Richard's group doesn't yet, so blowing up the plane doesn't affect MIB's ability to leave the Island. That plane could never take off anyway: pointed the wrong way, probably with insufficient space and an inappropriate surface on which to gain liftoff, and with old fuel.
    • Also, it seems likely enough that Desmond, at the bottom of the well, is poised to turn the donkey wheel (or interact with some part of the island's magic machinery), activating an electromagnetic event similar to the one he caused by not pushing the button in the hatch. It would be fitting for Desmond, having inadvertently crashed 815, to now actively choose to crash the Ajira plane as it leaves the island with MiB on board through a similar method.
      • Yeah, except for the point that Desmond has in fact not "inadvertently" crashed 815, cause these dudes on the plane were destined (!) to go there...
    • MIB seems to be stopped by water and sonic vibrations. Traveling on the sub, while it may not kill MIB, would be pure hell for him. Consider the sSonar beacon the submarine needs to navigate not to mention the pressure on the sub when dived may affect MIB differently then everyone else.--Zaggs 17:26, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Jack and MiB Face to Face

When Jack and Flocke came face to face...

  • MiB had a look of fear. MIB knows Jack is the true candidate.
    • MiB has Locke's memories. He's remembering everything that transpired between Jack and Locke.
    • MiB was not afraid, only Jack was.
      • Jack's not afraid of anything.
  • Jack had a look of fear. Something happened to Jack. Something important.
    • But Jack knows it's not really Locke.
    • Jack and Locke have a huge history, and it's the first time he has seen him since before the Ajira flight. It feels like we have known about Flocke forever, but only a few days have gone by on the island this entire season. Jack has only known that "Locke" was still "alive" for a few days. It must be pretty hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone has come back to life. Even though Jack knows it isn't Locke, it's Locke's body. He's having trouble telling his brain that it isn't actually Locke. Anyone would be disturbed if they saw someone that had died walking around again.
      • Also, keep in mid how affected Jack was by the news of Locke's death. Jack was the only one at his funeral. Jack had to put his own father's shoes on Locke's corpse. Jack is just recovering from a lengthy mental breakdown, and seeing Locke alive and well isn't helping him with his daddy issues.
        • And in the FST Jack is likely going to meet Locke now since he was hit by Desmond and will be sent to the hospital. This could trigger Jack's own recollection of the island memories. There is a major connection between Jack and Locke/Flocke.
  • The reason Flocke only greeted Jack, is because Jack is the only one who hasn't met him yet. The sight of Locke has just shocked Jack.
    • Hurley hadn't met MiB in a human form until this episode.
      • Hurley is also the first of the Candidates to NOT let MiB speak first.
        • Also note that Flocke handed Hurley his knife. As we know, Jacob was killed with his own knife, and it seems highly likely that somebody (Hurley?) will be able to kill Flocke with his own knife.
          • Note that Sayid tried to kill MiB with his own knife as well, and failed. This is likely for two reasons:
            • Sayid let MiB talk first.
            • The knife that Sayid tried to use was not actually the MiB's, or it is not effective now that MiB has changed forms.
  • It is possible that fake Locke is Christian, Jack's father - after all Jack did see him several times on the island, and Locke saw him too before turning the wheel - yes it could merely have been only MiB, but it could be he is really Christian.
    • MiB predates Christian S. by god knows how many hundreds of years. Also, Christians' absence seems a bit peculiar, no doubt he will come to play again soon for a pivotal role. He may attempt to manipulate Jack once and for all to side with FLocke. This may very well be Jack's biggest challenge, not necessarily the old rhetoric of Jack Vs. Locke, but actually Jack Vs. His Father, Christian.
    • Jack knows Hurley can see dead people, etc. So perhaps, the reason Jack had a shocked look on his face, is because he thought that Hurley was going to talk to the "Ghost" of Locke, and not expecting to see "Locke" alive.

Zen Desmond

  • Desmond was not feeling fear about being alone with MiB. He then got thrown down into a well. Desmond is not afraid or worried about his path on the island anymore because he knows his FS counterpart is working on setting the timelines straight.
    • Desmond is pure determinism at this point. His consciousness never left the FST, as such his OT consciousness just does what it's told, acts without any free will. His salvation for everyone else is the transfer of consciousness for everyone on the flight from OT into FST.
      • But it seems quite the opposite; that FST Desmond wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT and transfer their consciousness to the OT.
        • He definitely wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT, but we have no evidence that he wants to transfer anything. Desmond touched his own OT consciousness and received from Daniel the explanation that something in the OT made them want to change something. Now that they have, Desmond wants to reconnect everyone with their OT memories so that they can all reclaim in the FST what was important to them in the OT.
  • Desmond now knows he caused the plane to crash, and like Faraday doesn't "want to set off a nuclear bomb", Desmond wants to correct his "mistake".

Whispers and The Others

  • For the better part of the series, The Whispers have generally been associated with the presence of "The Others". If the idea that The Whispers are voices of souls stuck on the island is true, then that would mean that some of "The Others" that we've seen in the past/present have in fact been ghosts. This would also mean that while Hurley can see them at all times, these ghosts do have the ability to reveal themselves to anyone should they choose to.
    • Not only does the newly revealed information on the whispers NOT imply that some Others we've seen are themselves ghosts, but also Hurley has never been shown to "see (souls trapped on the island) at all times". Hurley's power is seemingly subject to the will of any spirit he talks to (with the possible exception of his first conversation with ghost Charlie, at the end of which Hugo seems to will him away) in that they show up whenever they feel like and leave the same way, with no way for Hurley to find them himself or call on them in any way. It seems that the whispers have an agenda unrelated to Jacob's or MiB's. It would make sense that the agenda of the whispers falls in line with the desires of the people who's spirits are whispering. They tend to precede attacks from the others and from smokey in any form, so it seems like they are just trying to protect people. This holds with Ben telling Rousseau to run the other way when she hears whispers. If Ben had no real desire to bring Rousseau any harm, telling her to use the whispers as an alarm was pretty sound advice, even if it was (in Ben's eyes) just to prevent her getting caught by the Others.
    • Typically the whispers are heard before The Others make an appearance.
      • It is assumed The Others are the source of the whispers, however, it is the whispers that appear before the Smoke Monster arrives. The Whispers have been traditionally followed by the "tick tick" sound and black smoke - hence the ghosts providing a warning to those in danger. Knowing that alive inhabitants might be a little perturbed by the sound, this is a pretty good warning; and the alerted islanders run for cover. This is also indicated by Danielle Rousseau "when you hear the whispers run)
      • There are no tracks left - if they are ghosts or smoke; no tracks would be left. Ghosts cannot be seen by inhabitants other than Hugo Reyes (others might have seen them, but they are possible deceased).
      • The Others don't leave tracks simply because they're well trained and experienced and know how to set dummy trails or remove their tracks entirely.
    • In Season 5 The Whispers are heard before Christian Shepherd reveals himself to Sun and Lapidus in the Dharma barracks
      • This would potentially confirm that Christian is in fact a spirit
    • At the beginning of Season 6 when Kate/Jack/Hurley/etc... are in the tunnels leading to the temple, whispers are heard before The Others kidnap them.
  • Perhaps the whispers show themselves only in times of trouble. They are not associated with Others, MiB, or higher power even. They watch, and when something big is going down, they're 'talking' becomes more intense and it gets louder, to the point where the audience and characters can hear them. Therefore, the whispers are tied to events that happen, not factions/people. The reason they appear so often with the Others is because for a lot of the time, the Others were committing kidnappings, deceptions, raids and so forth, which would have invited a lot of talk among the witnessing whispering ghosts.
  • The Whisper transcripts need updating for later episodes, but the ones that exist can seem to indicate "ghosts" who both watch the action of the Losties but also attempt to manipulate the action in some undisclosed way.
    • For example, during the whisper sequence with Charlie on the beach, the following statements were made:

"Grab it right now" "I know I've had it" "Let's get him moving" "Are you confused or something ?" (sped up) "He's just leaving him " (reversed) "We can all raise this baby " Many such examples of "action" exist.

  • It seems clear that death (and love) are "Doors" in the Lostverse. Some people get stuck on the other side of the door without moving on. When Ilana dies, she will "wake up" surrounded by a myriad of ghosts and will work with them for whatever their endgame is.
  • In the first season, there is a boar that is taunting Sawyer, and it's accompanied by whispers saying "it'll come back around," which are the last words of the man Sawyer killed, leading Sawyer to believe that the boar is the ghost of the man he killed. Lost's explanations of the whispers make sense for that episode, but it is unclear why that man's spirit would end up on the island.
    • It could just be what Sawyer, with his guilty-conscience, imagined the whispers to be saying when he heard them.


  • Walt was whispering to Shannon in Man of Science, Man of Faith and Abandoned and both Shannon and Sayid also in the same episode but Walt clearly got off the island and wasn't stuck on the island so how was he one of the people who could whisper if he was able to leave the island.
    • The explanation offered so far has been Walt is "special," and that is why he was able to appear as if he was a ghost.
    • To more detail: Walt can be theorized as projecting his image into other people's minds. Almost as a manifestation. Walt's ability had emphasis in the creative mind, meaning he can project what he can think of. So, he reads about polar bears, and you get one. He reads and thinks about birds, you get them flocking in. He even tries to visualize him throwing the knife with Locke before he successfully nails the throw.

FST visions of the OT

  • In the FST, only people who have died in the OT have organically generated visions of the OT
    • Charlie, Faraday, and now Libby all had visions of the OT without the aid of someone else
    • Desmond and Hurley had visions, but only with the aid of other people