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*He didn't seem particularly surprised to see Hurley pop out of the bushes at that particular moment.
 
*He didn't seem particularly surprised to see Hurley pop out of the bushes at that particular moment.
 
*He knows that he has no influence over them as False Locke and therefore has to resort to incarnations of people relevant to the person he wishes to persuade.
 
*He knows that he has no influence over them as False Locke and therefore has to resort to incarnations of people relevant to the person he wishes to persuade.
 
==FST Conciousness to the rescue!==
 
*Desmond is trying and eventually will force Locke's FST consciousness into the OT. That way Flocke become Locke again but merged with the original consciousness of the MIB so that he is the MIB but with consciousness of Locke.
 
Evidence: Jack said "Yeah, I know Locke, and I wouldn't give up on him yet" line during the Season 5 finale. This way, Jack will become the new Jacob, and Locke is the new MIB, but instead of warring with each other, they will peacefully coexist. Black and White. Yin and Yang.
 
   
 
== Desmond's Master Conundrum ==
 
== Desmond's Master Conundrum ==

Revision as of 06:25, January 16, 2011

Main Article Theories about
Everybody Loves Hugo
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Why Desmond Hit Locke

Deja Vu Flash

Desmond needs Locke to have a near-death experience like himself and Charlie to show him the existence of the original timeline. Support:

  1. "[He] just need[s] to show them something."
  2. He's matching Charlie's dangerous stunt.
  3. Desmond wants Locke to regain his ability to walk by getting him to a hospital where spinal super surgeon Jack can work his magic. This will open his eyes à la Desmond, Charlie, Hurley, Faraday, etc.

Every character who has had their first flash to the OT has done so after some kind of close interaction with their "true love" in the OT or a traumatic near death experience. Desmond had a strong connection in the OT, Libby/Hurley had one as well. Charlie and Daniel's close connections don't exist in the FST. Charlie's connection of OT "true love" came during his near death experience on the flight. Who did Locke have a strong connection with in the OT? Jack (though essentially a negative connection, their power struggle, it was strong nonetheless). Now Locke will be taken to the hospital, where Jack will operate on him, and both will experience a flash. Locke and Jack have already met in the FST, although I can't remember if they touched or if Jack just handed him his business card.

  • Desmond seems to be making connections between the timelines, maybe in an attempt to merge them. Near-death experiences and Love seem to be the means to accomplish this. If a strong enough connection between FST Locke and Flocke in the OT were made, Locke might gain some control over Flocke, or even reoccupy his OT body. Since Flocke was said to be trapped in that body, just as he is trapped on the Island, this might be a particularly vulnerable position, which in turn might make it possible to tip the scales in Jacob's favor. Desmond hitting Locke with his car could be the means to this end.

To Kill Him

  • Desmond's is aware of two time-lines and he said Man in Black was the real Locke so he wanted to take revenge on Locke for throwing him into the well in OT.
  • He hit Locke with the car because he believed it was MiB.
  • Fake Locke comes to the island in the form of real Locke. Thus Desmond killing real Locke would prevent Fake Locke from making the transition. Fake Locke realizes this so he tries to kill Desmond by tossing him down the well.
  • In the island reality, MIB IS John Locke; Everyone on the island has an alternate self in the alternate universe; So, in order to trap the MIB (John Locke) on the island, Desmond has to remove John Locke from the alternate universe to keep MIB from being able to exist there;
  • Killing Locke in the FST is also necessary to reconcile with the OT where Locke is dead.
  • Sun's reaction to Locke in "The Last Recruit" supports that they remember him as MIB.

Assisting MiB's Plans

The FST takes place in 2004. fLocke is trying to leave the island in 2007. In order for the Ajira plane to carry fLocke to freedom, everybody from the OT who is accompanying him must also be on the FST Ajira flight 316 in three years time. One plane will survive and the other will fade out of existence as the universe course-corrects. By awakening the others, Desmond is serving the MiB, because their desire to discover the truth about their island memories will lead them to board Ajira flight 316, since many of them remember that particular flight as the way back to the island.

  • The Island is underwater, however, so Desmond cannot assist the MiB in "getting people back to the Island."

Getting Jack to Fix Him

Not sure why this was taken down but since The Candidate only supported my theory I'm going to repost it. Here was my original theory - Desmond knew that Jack could fix Locke. The closest hospital to the school was Jack's hospital and Desmond knew that Locke would be brought to Jack and Jack would fix him.

Hurley's Visitors

  • Hurley can only talk to people who have not "moved on". People such as Michael, Charlie, etc. have not "moved on" due to their killing. Richard's wife may have failed to "move on" for another reason.
    • Miles can only talk to people who are moving on.
      • And yet Miles was able to talk to Jacob ("He was standing over Jacob's body with a bloody dagger, so... yeah, I'm pretty sure."), even though Jacob appeared to Hurley numerous times after his death.
  • A reason for spirits not moving on is the Island is not done with them.
  • It seems that there may be some difference between the spirits viiting Hurley on the Island and the ones visiting him off the Island. Michael's spirit said he was stuck on the Island because of what he had done. He could not move on because he still hadn't gotten over his murders and the falling out between him and Walt. Charlie, Eko, and Ana Lucia all visited Hurley off the Island, which means they may have moved on and their spirits could leave the Island. Charlie sacraficed himself for all of his friends, Eko stop blaming himself for his brother's death and realized he was doing what he had to, and Ana Lucia was finally accepted by everyone and refused to kill Ben. Richard's wife may have felt that Richard killing the doctor may have been her fault, which is why she can't move on. They all still have a purpose for the Island which is why they can still appear on Earth, but the ones who haven't moved on emotionally can not move on from the Island.

Dead People who Reappear Are MiB

  • Dave was actually MIB trying to get Hurley to commit suicide because he knows how important Hurley is to Jacob.
  • Jacob and Isabella are incarnations of MiB. MiB is capable of assuming the forms of dead people. He assumed the form of Ben's island adopted dead daughter to manipulate Ben into following MiB. He assumed the form of Jack's dead father to manipulate Locke and Ben into moving the island and establishing the conditions which would make his plan work. And he assumed the form of dead Jacob to manipulate Hurley into doing things which served MiB's interests. And the most impressive incarnation is assuming the form of Michael to convince Hurley to stop Ilana from destroying the plane and then to lead all of the remaining candidates to MiB's camp.

(However Ilana said that MIB can no longer change his face. So Hurley's visions must be actual visions of the dead, if she is to be believed.)

  • They confirmed that he was Yemi, Alex, etc., but they would never confirm that MIB was Christian Shepard, in fact they strongly suggested that it wasn't.

They are made to appear by the MiB

  • When they appear they seem to be serving the needs of the MiB, and while it's clearly not the same entity as is currently present in a Locke-shaped body, the MiB can manifest itself as dead people in order to encourage people to do what he wants them to i.e. getting the other candidates to join him.
  • The MiB has said that all he needs in order to get off the island is the other candidates, and yet he (as Locke) is not particularly active in pursuing them - he is 'waiting for them' calmly, as if he knows they are on their way.
  • He didn't seem particularly surprised to see Hurley pop out of the bushes at that particular moment.
  • He knows that he has no influence over them as False Locke and therefore has to resort to incarnations of people relevant to the person he wishes to persuade.

Desmond's Master Conundrum

Desmond is proved to be invincible and unable to be defeated. He has incited fear in John Locke, and poses a danger to Flocke's plan to leave the island. Flocke is unable to survive higher levels of energy. The young child smiles because Jacob is winning. Winning the war of course. If one is able to actively leave the island, then that person takes on the role of Jacob. Jacob shared the island with others while MIB wants to prevent that.

  • Desmond is one of the candidates, (either he was on Illana's list given to her by Jacob or he was the person coming to the island Jacon told Hurley about in The Lighthouse and is now a new candidate), his FST hints greatly at this when he is chatting with Hurley awaiting his chicken order and the man behind the counter calls out for number 42, which is desmonds number for his order. In season 4 when Hurley stumbles accross the cabin in which he see's christian shepherd and the eye at the window (which i have always believed to have been John Locks) the whispers are heard discussing Desmond, this could be a further clue he is more important than the other candidates.

The Well

  1. Desmond is in the well with a Frozen Donkey Wheel
  2. Pushing Desmond down the well into the electromagnetic anomaly is Locke's way of killing him without him remaining on the island as a whisper (However, unknown to Locke, Desmond can survive this). Once Desmond hits the pocket of energy he awakes back in FST.
  3. The wells are connected via underground tunnels. These same tunnels are the Cerberus Vents. Because of MiB's inability to withstand the EM pylons, the tunnels were a way of routing the monster around the island, in effect, a way to control and direct the "security system" by utilizing the Electromagnetism found in each well.

Well is not FDW Well

This well is not the FDW well, but still has electromagnetic properties that will trigger some event for Desmond.

  • Evidence: The scenery around the well is different than the FDW well, and MiB references there are several of these wells, and that its builders didn't find anything at this one. However, MiB does indicate this to be an EM hotspot.

Jack and MiB Face to Face

  • MIB knows Jack is the true candidate and MiB looked at Jack as if he was his new target. Seeing Locke alive and well isn't helping him with his daddy issues.
    • Evidence is his relationship with the candidates not yet committed to MiB. Sun has come because she trusts Jack, not MiB. Hurley is here because he has Jack's trust Should MiB recruit or convince Jack, Jack could bring Hurley and Sun on board.
  • The sight of Locke has just shocked Jack.
  • Jack and MIB react strongly upon seeing each other because Jack is no longer Jack, he is Jacob now. This is why he has stopped leading people. This episode gave an important clue. Richard says that Jacob can't tell people what to do. This is why Jack(Jacob) is no longer the "man in charge". This new "Jack" corresponds in time to Jacob dying.
Evidence please
    • Jack and MIB exchanged strange looks because the last time Jack saw that body it was John Locke, and he was dead. Think if someone you knew died, and you felt like you had something to do with it. Then you hear that some guy is in his body, sure you can tell yourself that, but you cant believe something like that until you see it, and even then it is hard to process. Jack was seeing a dead man walking, if that wont make you look concerned I dont know what will. You guys are looking into this way too much, they aren't trying to add mysteries at this point.

Zen Desmond

  • Desmond was not feeling fear about being alone with MiB. He then got thrown down into a well. Desmond is not afraid or worried about his path on the island anymore because he knows his FS counterpart is working on setting the timelines straight.
    • Desmond is pure determinism at this point. His consciousness never left the FST, as such his OT consciousness just does what it's told, acts without any free will. His salvation for everyone else is the transfer of consciousness for everyone on the flight from OT into FST.
    • FST Desmond wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT and transfer their consciousness to the OT.
    • He wants everyone in the FST to remember the OT, Desmond wants to reconnect everyone with their OT memories so that they can all reclaim in the FST what was important to them in the OT.
  • Desmond now knows he caused the plane to crash, and like Faraday doesn't "want to set off a nuclear bomb", Desmond wants to correct his "mistake".
  • The last time Desmond was subject to Electromagnetic Energy he began to see into the future on a regular basis, allowing him to see and prevent Charlie Pace's death, it also allowed him to move his conciousness to another time. Considering that after his second experience with Electromagnetic Energy he can again move his conciousness, it's fair to believe he can once again predict the future and it's ultimate outcomes (He could see Charlie's death would get them rescued). If you know what's about to happen before it happens, there would be no reason for him to fear Locke.

The Whispers

  • Michael is lying about the whispers.
    • 3 instances of whispers are followed by a sighting of never-been-dead Walt and his backward words of warning. Appearances after whispers are manipulations toward certain actions and outcomes. (An opposing force caused Walt's messages to translate backwards and uninterpreted--'don't push the button, the button's bad' and 'they're coming and they're close'.) #In Season 2, whispers are heard: a) right before Cindy is secretly taken by the Others. (The Other 48 Days); b) right before Jack, Kate, Michael, Hurley, Sawyer (darted) are surprised by the Others (Live Together, Die Alone, Part 2).
      • It was confirmed by the producers in their most recent podcast that the Whispers are what Michael said they are.
    • Whispers are a distraction preceding manipulative words. That's why Ben told Rousseau: "if you want your child to live, every time you hear whispers, you run the other way." (Season 5, Dead Is Dead) Rousseau survived the Others for many years following this advice.


  • The Whispers are as Michael said - dead people who can't move on
    • The whispers have an agenda unrelated to Jacob's or MiB's. The agenda of the whispers falls in line with the desires of the people who's spirits are whispering. They precede attacks from the others and from Smokey in any form, so they are just trying to protect people. This holds with Ben telling Rousseau to run the other way when she hears whispers. If Ben had no real desire to bring Rousseau any harm, telling her to use the whispers as an alarm was pretty sound advice, even if it was (in Ben's eyes) just to prevent her getting caught by the Others.
    • The whispers show themselves only in times of trouble. They are not associated with Others, MiB, or higher power even. They watch, and when something big is going down, their 'talking' becomes more intense and it gets louder, to the point where the audience and characters can hear them. Therefore, the whispers are tied to events that happen, not factions/people. The reason they appear so often with the Others is because for a lot of the time, the Others were committing kidnappings, deceptions, raids and so forth, which would have invited a lot of talk among the witnessing whispering ghosts.
    • The Whisper transcripts need updating for later episodes, but the ones that exist can seem to indicate "ghosts" who both watch the action of the Losties but also attempt to manipulate the action in some undisclosed way.
      • Examples, during the whisper sequence with Charlie on the beach, the following statements were made: "Grab it right now", "I know I've had it", "Let's get him moving", "Are you confused or something ?" (sped up), "He's just leaving him " (reversed), "We can all raise this baby "
      • Death (and love) are "Doors" in the Lostverse. Some people get stuck on the other side of the door without moving on. When Ilana dies, she will "wake up" surrounded by a myriad of ghosts and will work with them for whatever their endgame is.


  • The Whispers are connected to the Others
    • Typically, the whispers are heard before The Others make an appearance.
    • Many of the ghosts would be dead others, and they would want to help or warn the living others.
    • Whispers appear before the Smoke Monster arrives. The Whispers have been traditionally followed by the "tick tick" sound and black smoke - hence the ghosts providing a warning to those in danger. Knowing that alive inhabitants might be a little perturbed by the sound, this is a pretty good warning; and the alerted islanders run for cover. This is also indicated by Danielle Rousseau "when you hear the whispers run)
    • At the beginning of Season 6 when Kate/Jack/Hurley/etc... are in the tunnels leading to the temple, whispers are heard before The Others kidnap them.


  • The Whispers/Ghosts are connected to the FST Characters
    • No one who is a 'Ghost' has made an appearance in the FST thus far.
    • Michael is the first original passenger of Oceanic 815 to appear as a 'ghost' on the island (Walt and Christian Shepherd excluded).
    • Michael asked Hurley to apologize to Libby if he saw her. This suggests that Michael cannot see/find Libby and this could be explained by two possibilities: (a)That her spirit has 'moved on' or (B)Her 'spirit' has left the OT altogether to join FST Libby's consciousness.
    • FST Libby's memory of the OT was triggered easily by seeing Hurley in a commercial. This is much less extreme than what other characters have had to go through to obtain their OT memories (see: Charlie's and Desmond's near-death epiphanies).
    • Taking the Libby example further, those who have died in the OT (who are not 'ghosts') have had their consciousness merged with their respective FST mind. This is why their memories of the OT are much easier to obtain. For example, FST Daniel Faraday simply looked at Charlotte and had an OT-related memory.


  • Incongruities with the Whispers
    • In the first season, there is a boar that is taunting Sawyer, and it's accompanied by whispers saying "it'll come back around," which are the last words of the man Sawyer killed, leading Sawyer to believe that the boar is the ghost of the man he killed. Lost's explanations of the whispers make sense for that episode, but it is unclear why that man's spirit would end up on the island.
    • Walt was whispering to Shannon in Man of Science, Man of Faith and Abandoned and both Shannon and Sayid also in the same episode but Walt clearly got off the island and wasn't stuck on the island so how was he one of the people who could whisper if he was able to leave the island.
    • Walt is "special," and that is why he was able to appear as if he was a ghost.
    • Walt projects his image into other people's minds. Walt's ability had emphasis in the creative mind, meaning he can project what he can think of. So, he reads about polar bears, and you get one. He reads and thinks about birds, you get them flocking in. He even tries to visualize him throwing the knife with Locke before he successfully nails the throw.

FST visions of the OT

  • FST Desmond knows the name of his son in the OT (when Ben asked him outside the school)
  • In the FST, only people who have died in the OT have organically generated visions of the OT
    • Charlie, Faraday, and now Libby all had visions of the OT without the aid of someone else.
    • Charlie, Faraday and Libby had visions of people they loved, ie their soul-mates. If someone doesn't find their soul-mate on the island, then they don't have a vision. (so not Charlotte)
    • Jack didn't aid Charlie's vision, he interrupted it, which is why Charlie was angry. It was the near death experience that brought on the vision, not Jack reviving him.
    • Desmond and Hurley had visions, but only with the aid of other people
    • Meeting their soulmate in both timelines establishes a "constant".

Purpose of FST visions of the OT

  • THEY have to be convinced that their life has improved in the FST. Finally, LOST stands in the line of literary tradition that a story leads its characters through crises to an ultimately better life. FST Desmond helps them to get their happy end. Locke will walk. Happy couples erverywhere... Everything good from the OT island life has to be transferred to the FST timeline, so that the characters will be motivated to prevent the OT loop / a new loop. Some mistakes must not be made (again). OT Desmond has to set everything in motion on the island to establish the FST as definitive timeline. FST Desmond has to keep the FST in motion / safe.

Sun is the Kwon of the candidates

  • From the transcript of the show:

KATE: So what are we waiting for?

LOCKE: You were only able to come back to this island because you all did it together. If we're gonna get on that plane and leave, it has to happen the same way. We're waiting for your friends to get here, Kate. Hugo... Sun... Jack. That's the only way we're ever getting off this... Godforsaken rock.

Flocke isn't worried that he doesn't have Jin, he only needs Sayid and Sawyer (who are with him), and Hugo, sun and Jack.

  • Flocke is talking about the passengers of flight 316 being together, not all the candidates. Sun came on the flight, Jin did not. That is why he needs her.

The End of the Timeline Fracture Theory

For the past three or four episodes, The entire Time Fracture Theory has been looking increasingly untenable. This week's episode appeared to have put the final nails in the coffin:

  1. The appearance of FS Pierre Chang, presenting an award to Hugo, would seen to show pretty conclusively that if FS Chang had been in Dharma 1974-1977 and the events of the time travelling losties had occurred, he would not have been so calm about presenting Hugo with an award, when Hugo appears the same age as the last time he would have seen him. He also has two good arms; inconsistent with what we have seen in the Jughead 1977 Incident.
  2. The fact that Hugo is so famous, would mean that anyone who had been in Dharma 1977, if the time travelling losties had been there, would have recognised Hugo
  3. The fact that many FST characters are now 'remembering' events from the OT, which, if the timelines were running in parallel, would not yet have occurred (eg Hurley's date with Libby did not occur until almost 2 months after 22nd Sept - the tailies did not meet the midsectioners until 48 days after the crash).

All of this runs entirely counter to a time fracture theory, and in order to maintain it, those proponents who still believe it, would have to come up with some really convoluted explanations to deal with all these issues. In particular, (1) & (2) appear to kill off completely any Jughead 'split the timelines' notion, and (3) would appear to need an explanation of why time would be running at different rates in the two branches of the timeline.


X cannot meet Y

Let's begin Hugo can meet anybody anytime the other person wants. He can tell if they are real or fakes (Pretenders). The term death is irrelevant to him. same is true of Walt WALT is one of the four truly powerful figures. Ben cannot never encounter Faraday who is the master of Desmond. Ben decides not to kill mib because (unfortunately for the drama), he chooses redemption. THE ONLY PEOPLE OR DEMONS BEN CANNOT KILL are HUGO & WALT. desmond and faraday must avoid Ben until his conversion. When mib picked Ben to kill Jacob, he gave ben the power to destroy. Ben become ben plus jacob. Ben had the power to kill Widmore. In that Moment miB he understood he was in trouble. BEN could have stopped Desmond-Faraday anytime as long as either hurley or walt was absent.--Past recaptured 17:54, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

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