FANDOM


(Kate and the Lawyers)
(Who can stop the island from moving in time?)
Line 243: Line 243:
 
*The O6-returning to the island will stop this process
 
*The O6-returning to the island will stop this process
 
**I like this line of thinking. Perhaps the time-jumping is the island's way of recognizing that some people who should have been on the island (the O6) are gone, and time-jumping is the island's way of looking for them. That could be why Ben and Locke claim that the O6 should not have left, because they knew this would be the result after turning the wheel.
 
**I like this line of thinking. Perhaps the time-jumping is the island's way of recognizing that some people who should have been on the island (the O6) are gone, and time-jumping is the island's way of looking for them. That could be why Ben and Locke claim that the O6 should not have left, because they knew this would be the result after turning the wheel.
  +
**The O6 are the Island's constants.
 
*Desmond-because Faraday thinks he can save them somehow.
 
*Desmond-because Faraday thinks he can save them somehow.
 
*Whoever succeeds in preforming some critical task in the past
 
*Whoever succeeds in preforming some critical task in the past

Revision as of 22:47, January 23, 2009

Main Article Theories about
Because You Left
Main Discussion
 Theories may be removed if ... 
  1. Stated as questions or possibilities (avoid question marks, "Maybe", "I think", etc).
  2. More appropriate for another article.
  3. Illogical or previously disproven.
  4. Proven by canon source, and moved to main article.
  5. Speculative and lacking any evidence to support arguments.
  6. Responding to another theory (use discussion page instead).
  • This does not include responses that can stand alone as its own theory.
  • Usage of an indented bullet does not imply the statement is a response.

See the Lostpedia theory policy for more details.

Faraday in the Orchid

  • Faraday causes "the incident" that babies are no longer allowed to be born on the island and the one that is always referred to because he somehow released all of the energy in the room with the wheel. When he does this he travels to the future and loses his memory; this is why we see him with a caretaker when we are first introduced to him on the show.
    • Except that in this case, wouldn't Ben experience the same effects, as he actually entered the room where the wheel is?
    • Also it is unlikely that a construction worker would then become a Professor is Quantum Physics. More likely that his memory loss is caused by the experiments while at Oxford.
    • In The Constant, Faraday puts on an anti-radiation vest before experimenting and Desmond asks if he ought to wear one on his head. He has memory loss because Des was right as usual!
  • During one of the Islands "skips" through time, the group will find themselves back in the time of the DHARMA Initiative. Faraday is attempting to stop the island from skipping by disguising himself as a worker in order to get closer to the wheel and it's energy, possibly attempting to turn it back and perhaps causing "the Incident".
    • His haircut fits in with how we see him 'now', not when he had a professor-esque hippie haircut.
    • It doesn't seem like the time skips are long enough for Daniel to be able to infiltrate Dharma without causing suspicion. It does seem like this is the most likely explanation though, since his facial hair and hair cut are consistent with his look when the time skipping started. Is it possible that the more time skips, the longer the time between skips gets.
    • Daniel seems the most likely of anyone to figure out how to control the time skips, at least a little. Perhaps that's what he's doing there in the first place: trying to fix time.
    • According to the rules that Daniel says to Saywer he cant just go barging in a infiltrating DI unless he has already met Chang and all the other people working at the Orchid. Unless he was lying to Saywer and it was coincidence that Desmond didn't come outside.
      • It wasnt a coincidence. It's part of the History. Desmond told Faraday "you've been banging on my door for the past 20 mins". So he heard Sawyer's banging, but they were not fated to meet, as Faraday is the only person qualified to explain/instruct things to Desmond in such a way that he has a hope of deciphering it later in the future.
        • You're on to something. When Daniel bumps into Chang at the bottom of the Orchid, he hides his face as if he knows Chang would recognize him. This tells me that they might have a previous relationship, indicating he is in fact infiltrating Dharma from the future.
        • It's also just as possible that he was afraid Chang -wouldn't- recognize him, in other words, that Chang would know he wasn't supposed to be there, whether or not he actually knew him as a person. Isn't that what anyone would do, sneaking into a place dressed as a worker and coming across the head honcho? I know I would instinctively hide my face. I thought at the time that it was a visual indication to the audience that he wasn't just a Dharma worker who discovered the wheel, that he was a "future" (present?) Daniel infiltrating the past for a purpose.
        • Daniel may have misled the rest of the group so that he could deliver his message to Desmond. Sawyer may well have been able to interact Desmond, just as Sawyer is able to interact with the soldiers, and the flaming arrows are able to "interact" with Frogurt.
  • This is a flash-forward. The island sends them back to the time of the Orchid construction and Faraday is curious like always and sneaks in.
  • Maybe the 2 hours that Faraday was gone while contacting Desmond was enough time for him to get to the Orchid as well.

The Image of the Wheel

SonarImage

The image of the chamber

The workers show Chang an image of what is behind the wall. A chamber with the wheel. How was this image obtained?
  • The image is a view from above, so either the shot was taken from above, or it was a side view like a cross-section, similar to an ultrasound showing a baby in a womb.
  • The numbers along the sides of the image represent distance, giving a scale of sorts. Having see the Wheel in There's No Place Like Home, and judging Ben's height at a bit under 6', the Wheel would seem to be approx 8' across (makes sense - an eight spoked wheel being 8 feet wide). Comparing the size of the Wheel to the numbers in the image, it would seem these numbers are metric metres (8' is about 2.4m). It also indicates the the Wheel is 14m away from wherever the image was shot.
    • The use of metric would indicate a more European flavour to DHARMA, though scientists have long used metric.
      • Scientists have used metric for a long time, but English Units are still more common in American construction than metric, and certainly would have been more common during Dharma's active years.
  • If the image is taken from above, then it would be from something like ground-penetrating radar. Even today, that technology would not produce such an image. Therefore, this image was take from the side.
    • Is this time period around the late 70's? Would ultrasound, sonar-graphic or side-scan radar equipment exist that could do this?
    • If this image was taken from the side, then the detection equipment would need to be on the same lateral level as the wheel (as we have see the wheel lays horizontally). But we saw that Ben had to climb down a ladder, then kick through an ice window, and climb down again to reach the FDW. So if the image is from the side, then there could be a level under the one we have seen so far in the Orchid Station.
      • It appears the Orchid Station is in the construction phase, and there were many other rooms off the corridor in the station, so that is possible.
      • Chang is making orientation films for DHARMA Stations, yet this one is not finished yet? Or is being expanded. Either way, this seems to indicate the flashback is in the early days of establishing DHARMA on the Island.
          • Also indicates how senior Chang is, that he is the one they bring to deal with this Orchid Station issue.

Desmond and Faraday

  • Faraday contacted Desmond through the front door of the hatch. While this did not happen in Desmond's original timeline, Faraday must be aware (as he tells Desmond so) that Desmond is special. Turning the key and exploding the Swan gave Desmond the power to make a new string in time. When Faraday contacts Desmond, Desmond remembers the contact in his sleep that day, because his past has been altered, and the update has trickled through to his consciousness (somewhat like the time-shifting properties of the move "Frequency," which happens to star the actress who plays Juliet)
    • We didn't see it in Desmond's original time line because at that time, this meeting had not taken place ... until now. The reason Desmond does not recognize Faraday is because Desmond (according to his own timeline) had not met Faraday yet. That Desmond is pre-crash Desmond, and he doesn't meet Faraday until post-crash when he starts time-jumping. Faraday knows Desmond, because Desmond time-jumped to Faraday's past and they met there.
    • Further, because Desmond is Faraday's constant, there is a linear connection between the two characters' time lines regardless of how each individual is subjectively experiencing time/time travel. Even though Faraday is jumping around backwards and forward through time while Desmond is three years into Faraday's subjective future from when the Island moved, they have an absolutely linear connection in their individual personal time lines. That is why Desmond "dreams" about this change in reality immediately after Faraday tampers with the time line (from the perspective of the viewer of the show).
      • Though it is possible that Desmond merely forgot about the meeting with Faraday. It was at least three or four years before his "dream," and lasted only a minute or so. Also, Faraday disappeared into thin air after confusing Desmond. It's possible Desmond dismissed the entire encounter and then only remembered it after his dream.
  • Faraday is only able to talk to Desmond because he is also a "special". This would explain why Sawyer failed to get Desmond to come outside, but Faraday was immediately successful.
    • Faraday lied about changing the past in an effort to convince the rest of the group to not try, because if they did it could possibly create a time paradox and cause "bad things" to happen. Additionally, Faraday contacted Desmond at The Swan because he felt that this would not create a time paradox.
  • Just before Faraday jumped while talking to Desmond, he told Desmond to go find his mother. It is possible that Faraday's mother is Ms. Hawking.
    • While it seemed insignificant at the time, Faraday was cut off just as he was about to say his mother's name. Both of them have a lot to do with time travel.
  • In the episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes," Ms. Hawking has to persuade Desmond against buying the ring for Penny and changing his past. If Faraday's explanation that you cannot change the time line is correct, then this is evidence that Desmond is "uniquely special" in regards to time. If Desmond were subject to the same rules as everyone else, there is no reason for Ms. Hawking to explain the futility of his actions ... it would become readily apparent on its own.
    • She persuades Desmond to not buy the ring because he can not change his past (or change the future).
    • Desmond being the "key" to saving everyone (as implied by Ms. Hawking in that episode) actually would fit to the theory of her being Faraday's mother. Like so: Faraday tells Desmond to look for his mom (Hawking)-> Desmond does so-> Hawking/Ben/Locke etc figures out whats going on and hatches a plan to save the world from a Time Collapse or something.. and so forth. Ergo, If Desmond married Penny, he wouldnt be at the Orchid, Desmond wouldnt know who to talk to at that point, no one's going to warn Hawking at all, End of the Universe ensues. At some point in the future they realized this, and sent Hawkings BACK in time to ensure Desmond ultimately ends up taking the Island job.
  • Also, when Faraday knocks on the hatch door, Desmond answers wearing his protective clothes. It should therefore mean that Kelvin is still alive as Desmond discovered that the protective clothing was pointless the day he killed Kelvin (the day the plane crashed). So where was Kelvin when all this was going on?
    • With that, Desmond would have noticed that Faraday was not wearing a suit either, and that should have made him question whether wearing the suit was a good idea or not to begin with.
    • Desmond seeing Daniel not wearing a suit and realizing it was not necessary would completely change the time line, as I'm sure Desmond would confront Kelvin about it. We don't get that indication the a time line was changed at all, just that a message was sent to Desmond in his sleep, three years after the O6 are rescued.
      • Unless, of course, Desmond was "special" in some way, a person for whom the rules do not apply.
  • Desmond asked Daniel if he was "him" (his replacement), so this should be after Kelvin is gone, why Desmond is still using the yellow suit?
    • Why the yellow suit? Obvious plot device used to add momentary suspense for viewers wondering if it was Desmond or not.
    • Desmond could possibly be wearing the suit to con whoever is outside into becoming his partner/replacement, much like Kelvin did when he found Desmond on the island. Live Together, Die Alone
    • Just because Desmond asked Daniel if he was "Him" does not necessarily place this event after he kills Kelvin, we can assume that Desmond was aware of the possibility of replacements since Kelvin asked him that very same question when he shipwrecked. Additionally, the suit could be more than a simple plot device for suspense, this can let us know that the event happened after Desmond reached the Island but before 815 crashed, which IIRC is the day that Desmond notices the tear in Kelvin's suit.
  • The castaways that were all left behind believe that Desmond died when the freighter exploded, yet Faraday still tells Desmond what to do once he's rescued. This either implies that Faraday somehow knows that the Oceanic Six and/or Desmond made it safely off the Island, or it's a major continuity error.

Infiltration through time skipping

  • The opening scene is not a traditional flashback, but instead a non-traditional flash forward. As the Island skips, the Left Behinds will encounter the DHARMA Initiative. Daniel will use his knowledge of the DI to gain a job working on the Orchid. This is also when Daniel helps Chang record and send the message we saw at Comic Con '08.
    • It is both flashback and flash forward, depending on point of view. It is a flashback of Chang, but it is a flash forward of current-day Faraday.
    • The flashes are too close together for Faraday to "get a job." He simply sneaks in and gets past everyone, because Faraday (in the past) is an actual worker at DI - he's the one behind the camera. So it would be easy for current-day Faraday to sneak in.
    • Faraday made the rules clear to Sawyer, you cant meet someone during a skip that you haven't already met at that time in the past/future.
    • If you truly can't change the course of history, Faraday is probably in the Orchid to gather info on the wheel/energy. Sawyer and crew are probably just outside, having knocked out a generic DI drone and swapped out his clothes. Faraday keeps a low profile hoping no one realizes that he doesn't belong. His worried look when talking to the foreman is in part due to the fact that he's initially afraid that he's been discovered.
      • He can likely use his doodad to focus on the field and get the EXACT 'when' they are in.
    • Was it a worried look or a conflicted look, since this might be time-traveling Daniel?
      • Faraday might have looked worried because he was about to set off the Incident by doing what Chang just said, just drilling one inch further. Perhaps the Incident was always triggered by Faraday in order to restore the losties to their timeline and prevent them from dying.

The Others not Moving Through Time

  • They do not travel through time because they have already established their constant, unlike Locke who still has to get use to this property of the island.
    • If this is true, why did Richard Alpert tell Locke that he would not recognize Locke the next time they see each other and that Locke had to give him the compass in order for him to know. If Richard and The Others don't travel in time, wouldn't Richard always recognize Locke.
    • He means Locke wont recognize him. This visit took place already in season 4 when Locke was a small boy. He did not give Alpert the compass.
      • I thought Richard said "I won't recognize you" so give me this compass.
      • Yes. If Locke tells Richard "I am John Locke" and gives him the compass, then Alpert will recognize him as the boy he wanted to recruit.
    • But Locke as a child didn't have the compass. Alpert brought it in to him to choose. So little boy Locke pulls it out of his pocket and gives it to Alpert?? If that's so then what we saw didn't happen, which goes against the "course correction" theme. The question is about the Others not moving through time and if Alpert won't recognize Locke at some point goes against the theory that the Others "stay put" so to speak and don't travel like Locke/Survivors/ET AL do.
      • Richard is not referring to the encounter with young Locke when he mentions the "next time". He is talking in terms of Locke's perspective, and obviously, Locke does not revert back into a young child. It is an indication that in one of the next time-jumps, Locke (and company) will jump back to an earlier time where Richard meets adult Locke for the first time, therefore will not recognize him. Richard has obviously not kept tabs on Locke, since when he met with young Locke, he thought Locke was not the one he was looking for.
    • Err, no. There are different time periods of The Others, times before Locke came to the island and times after. Which is why Ethan didn't recognize Locke. So the Others aren't moving through time, and at some point Locke will see Richard in a time period before Locke originally came to the island, and Richard won't recognize him because the last time he saw him, Locke was a teenager.
  • Then Faraday should stop moving through time, because Desmond was his constant.
    • Desmond's time jumping was due to the implosion of the Swan and not moving the island - therefore the same set of "rules" may not apply.
      • Furthermore, Desmond jumped not only in time, but also in location - Faraday et al. do not change location when time shifts.
      • George Minkowski's travel (both in time and location) was related to not following the correct path to and from the island - which again, may have a different effect on people than moving the island does.
    • There are TWO types of time travel occurring here, and it is important to keep them separate. Desmond is moving through his own time line, to places he has already been. Not once has Desmond ever traveled somewhere new due to this. Locke and Co. are traveling to different time periods, but NOT to where they were at the time. We know the plane crash that Locke witnessed took place within their lifetime, but before they arrived at the island. Locke essentially existed in two places at the same time when he saw the plane crash, as somewhere in the real world he was going about his pre-island life. Desmond, as far as we know, has never been in two places at once.
  • Perhaps they don't appear to move because they are "one" with the Island. That is, everyone else is separate and therefore moveable, the Others, a.k.a. the natives, are somehow intrinsically connected with the island's time stream.
  • Jacob is the Others' constant.
    • Constants don't seem to apply to this type of time travel. If that was the case, then Faraday wouldn't have jumped time after speaking to Desmond.
  • Perhaps the Others were born on the island, which gives them special properties
    • That would mean Charlotte wouldn't move either, and Cindy, the flight attendant who joined the Others, would move
      • Charlotte's proper history has not as yet been established. She may have merely vistied the island and not be an "other"
  • Only people that are still alive move through time, the other just stick to their "normal" time line
    • Yes, the others are made up of individuals who have died. They can only be "led" by the living, e.g. Ben and Locke. They also do not age, as seen by Richard.
    • It seems unlikely that the others are dead, as they can leave the island and talk with everyday people (such as Alpert speaking with Locke's mother).
  • People do not move through time who have already established that portion of their time line on the Island. Ie: you can't move through time to a point you have already been to. If it is impossible to change time, then it is also impossible to see yourself in time, as that inextricably changes it. Alpert & Co. existed elsewhere on the island during the first jump, but Locke did not (this was before the plane crashed after all, so he had not arrived yet). Alpert & the others were simply back to whatever they were originally doing in the time line (since it can't be changed), while Locke is free to roam about like other crash survivors since he was not there yet. This also explains why Juliet is jumping through time, as she had not gotten to the island yet (she was a fairly recent addition to the others).
    • According to the above, Faraday should not be jumping, because he is the one filming Chang.
      • You are assuming you are seeing the events in the order they actually happened, which is never the case on Lost. Faraday could be filming Chang because during a future time skip he is there, yet originally he was not on the island at this time. Remember how old Faraday is and then think to how old he would be if he was filming Chang at the actual time Dharma was on the island. He would have been much younger. So we know that 'now' Faraday is involved with Dharma, not 'then' Faraday.
      • The filming was prior to anyone living within the arrow station (presumably) so it is possibly Faraday was on the island for the filming, and not there for the time they are jumping too, allowing him to jump.
    • Faraday may have filmed Chang during his own time travel and not in his initial time line
    • Juliet is not actually an other, but rather someone brought from off island to help them. The rules that apply to them probably do not apply to her. For example, she probably ages.
  • We only know that Richard Alpert is not moving through time, with no evidence as to what is happening with the remaining "Others." We already know that Alpert has special abilities (not ageing), and with "Marvin Candle"'s reference to an "indigenous" population, it may be safe to assume that he is part of that population. The other "Others" (dead or alive: i.e.: Mr. Friendly, etc.) may not be indigenous, but may have been brought to the Island. Also - The "constant" that people keep bringing up only applied to Desmond because his consciousness was travelling through time which required a "constant" (something from his past and present) to stabilize it. The losties are physically travelling through time (so far as we know), meaning that a "constant" is not needed. Charlotte's nosebleed issue doesn't seem to be the same as Desmond's (i.e.: she is not blacking out/experiencing time loss), and could be related to the fact that it has been suggested she was born on the Island; so, as she moves backwards in time, she is in danger of "colliding" with herself in time.  :)
    • We can assume the others are not moving with the survivors because a group of them - Alpert included - vanished when Locke first "jumped."
    • Alpert does not have anti-ageing properties. He can somehow control his time-jumping and we are simply seeing him at his current age jumping to past times.
  • Moving in space and time would explain how Ben ends up in Tunisia and Charlotte finding evidence of Dharma and the polar bears.
    • Ben Arrived in Tunisia because he turned the wheel. He had the exact same jacket and wound when he was dumped there as when he was turning the wheel. The Polar Bears are found in Tunisia because they were previously used to turn the wheel. It is cold down there and extremely heavy, so it required a large arctic animal.
  • They do not travel in time because of their location at the time of the wheel-turning: The Temple ("BEN: It's a sanctuary. It may be the last safe place on this island.").
    • However, Ben is hanging with a bunch of Others, including Alpert, when he first skips, and the Others do not move with him. As they are all out in the open, it doesn't seem they were at the Temple. Location therefore appears to be irrelevant.
      • Locke is hanging with a bunch of Others, not Ben
  • The Others could be moving through time just like everyone else. This would explain Richard's message about not remembering Locke next time and stating that he was there at that place and time because Locke told him to (either in the future, or past, or Locke's next jump.) Also Ethan does not appear to recognize Locke, if Others weren't moved in time Ethan would be dead or would have already met Locke in the future.
    • Ethan did not remember Locke, because the time frame of the scene, given by the crashing smugglers plane puts it well before 815 crashed. Similarly, The next time Locke meets Alpert it will be prior to the crash and he won't remember him either. Possibly, the next meeting is also when Locke tells Alpert where to find him, explaining why Alpert recognises him prior to the 815 crash in this scene.
      • In the prior time line when Locke meets Alpert, he is near death from the gunshot, tells/convinces Alpert where he needs to be to save him, the point of reference Locke gives is in 4-D space being the smuggler plane crash (Time & Place). When Alpert meets up with him, he treats his wound and gives him the Compass, possibly to avoid some kind of time loop paradox by changing the parameters of their next meeting in the past?
      • The fact that Alpert won't recognise Locke can also clue us in to two possible explanations about Alpert, and whether or not he ages: Since we know Alpert meets Locke at least 2 times in his youth, we can either assume a) Their next meeting will be set in a time prior to Locke's birth, or prior to Alpert being made aware of the birth of a potentially special individual. (Ageless) or b) The Alpert seen in the nursery and at Locke's Grandmothers house is on-island post 815 Alpert travelling in time to meet & test Locke. (Possibly Aging normally, but still could be an Ageless time traveller)

Rousseau's Crew

  • The sickness previously discussed is their continuous time travelling and not being able to adapt to this and establish a constant. They then became sick and delirious and passed on. We see this happening to Charlotte now, and she is need of a constant to prevent from dying.
    • When Hurley, Ben and Locke were going to the orchid Ben said the crackers were 16 years old, which suggests that is the last time the island was moved, which goes along with Rousseau giving birth to Alex and the sickness of the crew.

Counter Evidence:

  • Charlotte knows that Faraday knows quite a bit about time travel and would most likely ask him what to do after her first couple "time jumps."
    • The entire Island is time-jumping.
      • No, the island is not, they are. If the island is a constant, and the people who aren't affected by the time jump stay in the constant time line, just the people from the crash/freighter/juliet are moving around. My thought is that the island physically moved when Ben turned the wheel, and now because of that is unstable, and those who were not on this island for a long enough period (Richard and those people) are not affected by it, but those who are new to the island are affected by this teetering time effect that is going on.
      • But then what happened to Cindy and the two kids.

Why does Richard tell Locke that in order for the Oceanic 6 to return to the island he has to die?

  • It seems like only people who have died can come to people off the island and talk to them. When John dies he becomes like Charlie, Claire, Tom, Ana Lucia, etc. and can make contact with people who have left the island.
    • Only Hurley sees the dead people consistantly and they do not stay around. Charlie and Anna clearly can't stay at a hotel, order room service, or have a date like Tom did.
    • There has been no evidence that Claire is dead or that Tom has appeared after his death. When he was seen recruiting Michael that was before his death since the freighter was just off shore with Michael when Sawyer shot him.
      • There definitely is evidence that Claire is dead. Her barrack was hit directly by a rocket during the mercenary attack, and she subsequently left Aaron alone in the middle of the jungle and went to join certainly-dead Christian. If she's alive, something really, really weird is going on.
        • Sawyer found her, and to my recollection she was not dead at that point. She wandered off into the woods in the middle of the night when she was with Sawyer and Miles.
          • She could have been dead when Sawyer found her and he was just dealing with an apparition. She mentioned Charlie, which might just indicate that she was disoriented, or she could see him now that she is no longer alive.
    • I don't believe this point is valid. The Others do evidently move back and forth between the mainland and the island; Richard Alpert and Ethan Rom recruited Juliet Burke, for instance, and Ben is seen to have a stash of passports.
  • Maybe he knows the oceanic 6 wont be convinced unless they see Locke kill himself. Only that will finally convince them how serious he is about going back.
    • Except that the Oceanic 6 aren't convinced Locke did kill himself... they think he was murdered. Either way, his death seems to have shocked Jack, at least, into taking him seriously.
      • All they say is that Bentham is dead, I don't think they know how or why.
  • John "has to die" because it is his destiny to become Jacob. When he returns to the island, dead in his coffin, he will awake in the same manner Christian Shepherd has on the island.
  • John will not "become Jacob". If he does, why would he tell himself "help me"?
  • Maybe he's not dead and has instead taken the venom of the same spider that Nikki and Paulo took
    • The effects of the Medusa spider are not that long-lasting. We see Nikki and Paulo begin to recover just as they are being buried, which was the same day they were bitten.
      • Except that the odds are good that Locke's body has been embalmed. This process usually occurs before the funeral services are held, and as it involves draining the corpse's blood, among other processes, embalming is an effective means of making sure someone is really dead and not just paralysed by Medusa spiders.
      • He is also about to be frozen in a meat locker, that should kill him, unless some crazy island magic keeps him preserved that way.
  • Because Richard has been to the future and knows that the key factor to the O6's return is Locke's death. So he knows that one way or another the only factor that will truly motivate the O6 is seeing Locke dead.
  • Locke left the island by turning the donkey wheel and the only way to return to the Island after doing that is to have your dead body brought back and resurrected on the island. If the island is shifting in time randomly then the donkey wheel may be the only safe way to leave the island.

The Compass

800px-AlpertItems
AlpertCompass
  • The compass given to John Locke by Richard Alpert was the same object in which a young John Locke was supposed to select in order to prove to Richard that he was the chosen one.
    • The compass is only the first of the objects from the test that Richard Alpert gave to young Locke; as Locke continues on his journey through time on the Island, Alpert will bestow the rest of the "correct" objects from that test to Locke.
      • When Richard interviewed the young Locke, he was upset that Locke picked up the knife. Locke has lived with the knife so far - now Richard, in giving him the compass, is saying "this is a point of change".
        • A compass is about direction but also discovery. It is used on the path to a location, not once you get to that location.
          • Young Locke would have been correct to choose the compass. He only chose the knife because Locke, young and old, has an affinity for knives. So, like a child, he simply chose the object he liked best, not the one he should have known was his in another life/time. This refusal to accept his past/future destiny is shown later in Cabin Fever when teenage Locke refuses the science camp.
    • When Eko died, his staff said "Lift up your eyes and look North", which could also refer to the fact that the compass "points north."
    • The Cabin Fever scene will be shown again and John will select the compass. Richard will give John another clue.
  • A similar looking compass was feature in LOST: Via Domus.
    • The compass from Via Domus was supposed to point "the way home," not North as Richard stated.
      • Richard was humorously stating the obvious in order to get Locke to ask "the right questions".
      • or North is Locke's "way home"
      • Way back Sayid pointed out that the compass he had did not point to north as it was supposed to. Perhaps the way north faces points the correct course off the island, which Daniel is currently trying to figure out.
        • But the Hatch was still around then and the electromagnetic pull of the station was distorting the compass bearing. Since the implosion compasses have worked just fine or at least have not been mentioned as innaccurate.
  • Clearly this is the same compass as in Cabin Fever.

The disaster for Dharma

  • I'm convinced at this point that the "Incident" that happened for Dharma that was referenced in previous seasons was the breaching of the donkey-wheel chamber. Since obviously this chamber was breached based on the Orchid station and judging by Pierre Chang's dialogue that it would be very bad, this has to be it. The question I have at this point is that when we saw Faraday there at the beginning of the episode did this happen while he was skipping through time or was he actually working for Dharma when he was younger? With the beard it's hard to place how old Faraday is at any certain point. My guess based on his memory loss and his caretaker earlier in previous seasons is that he worked for Dharma, he was the one that breached the chamber since he was studying space/time, and caused the bad accident and ended up losing his memory because of it. Probably why he is so dependent on his book and knew of the Orchid station before; he was actually there and may have even caused it.
    • Perhaps in the future Faraday travels back to this point because it is a critical time for what is to happen that we haven't learned yet.
    • It is doubtful that Faraday is old enough to have actually worked for Dharma in the past. Dharma was on the island some 20 years back, and assuming Faraday was all of 18 working for Dharma, that would mean he is pushing 40 now. There was definitely not a 20 year difference between Dharma Faraday and now Faraday. This means that Daniel will end up working for Dharma in one of the future time skips.
    • The "Incident" was probably a failure to push the button. The Swan station and the button existed to stabilize some of the negatively charged matter in the chamber that had escaped during construction of The Orchid. When Locke doesn't push the button the matter is discharged and would have sent the Island into time-jumps like when Ben turned the wheel. This didn't happen because Desmond turned the fail-safe key. The Swan Station and the button are no longer factors any more because the mater it was protecting has already been discharged, which was separate from that in the donkey wheel chamber.
      • The incident could not be a failure to push the button. Dr Cheng refers to the incident in the Swan orientation film and states that the button has to be pressed because of it. In other words, having to press the button is the effect of the incident, not the other way around.
        • Plus Cheng is wearing a swan jacket in the arrow video take and that would probably suggest that the station has already been made.
        • He just states that they can't afford another incident. When Desmond missed the 108 minutes and pushed the button while the hieroglyphs were flipping he was still able to stabilize everything. Something similar could have happened with Dharma and Cheng was simply stressing that they can't afford to let it happen again.
  • Or maybe he will end up shifting back to Dharma times in a few episodes and disguising himself.

Skipping through time

  • One of the concepts I'm struggling with is the fact that the island disappeared and appeared to skip through time, however it appears that anyone other than the Others is having their consciousness skip through time. So did both the island move and anyone other than the others also get dislodged (like Desmond before)? Why are the Others immune? Assuming the bodies of Sawyer, Juliet, Faraday, etc are in "true time," is that the when/where of the island?
    • Skipping though time doesn't really even seem to explain the island's disappearance, as it would still be mostly there at any given time. Unless it went back to before/after there ever was an island, but that doesn't seem to make sense. Did the geographical location change or not? Maybe time travel sickness is a side effect of moving though 'crazy space time stuff' with the island? The same way Desmond got sick when he was near the hatch anomaly when it blew up.
      • If the island moved in space, the skipping of time would be a side effect of this since moving an object instantaneously (at or above the speed of light) will cause the object to move backward in time relative to some observers.
      • In the linear time line, the island also somehow moves around (physically). This is supported by the changing headings given in order to leave the island at different points in time, the impossibility of finding the island, the adjacent island that is nowhere to be found and also by Faraday saying that he can't determine a heading until he finds out "when" they are. Thus moving the island in time moves it physically.
    • What if the island itself is unstuck in time and is now moving to all the places it has been before? Perhaps that is why the island is not in one fixed location, because it is constantly changing to where it used to be.
      • So would it be the reason that Ms.Hawking said Ben and Locke and Oceanic 6 have to go back within 70 hours once she found the exact location of the Island, as after that the island would "jump" to another unknown place or time?
  • Perhaps the Island moved forward, to the exact same spot but three years into the future from the perspective of the Islander. But as it reaches that point it skips through the Island's history. Everyone travels back in time, with the people who were on the Island before (the Others) having the consciousness that they had at that time in the past, to avoid paradoxes and such of their future knowledge.
    • This would explain why the island physically vanished from the view of the O6 and those in the helicopter. The island went approximately 3 years into the future, and is now skipping like a record. In order to elaborate upon Faraday's record analogy, the island is a record, and by turning the wheel, Ben moved the needle onto the next song. The O6 are looking for the people on the first song, but they are further forward. Now that they are on the next song, so to speak, the record is now skipping. Those not "one with the island" i.e. the Losties, the Freighter people, and Juliet (since she was Marked) are now on top of the record unstuck in time.
  • Because the are skipping through time on the island like they are, they are the voices that everyone is always hearing on island
    • This would explain why the others seem to be able to appear and disappear out of nowhere (like Harper did when she was delivering a message to Juliet). If the others can control their time travel, there may be a small overlap of sound between the time that they leave and the time that they arrive.
  • The island is still in the process of moving. It disappeared and is now skipping around in time before it will settle again, in a new place and/or time. Mrs. Hawking is calculating how long they have before it settles again. Once it settles it will be too late for anyone to return.
  • The island itself is not moving, or at least not with the survivors. If it were, the beach camp would still be there, the hatch would still be imploded, etc. The people aren't changing with each jump (i.e. getting younger or older), but the island is. There are separate processes happening.
  • In the past, the producers have been asked if this was a real island (as opposed to purgatory). They seemed to answer in a way that indicated it is "viewed" by the Losties as an island, but they might also have meant this "thing" is not a physical real island - that it is a place in time with certain properties, and the collective belief of the crash survivors makes it seem like an island. But if the Island is formed by belief, this may explain Ben's "magic box" talk, and how when he needs something, he has it at hand.
    • So with the O6 off-Island, the Island is unbalanced and will keep skipping.
  • Faraday says that there's no camp as it has not been built yet; then how can we explain the Zodiac boat on which he has just arrived? Shouldn't it disappear as well?
    • They threw in a caveat to explain that. Juliet said something like, "whatever we have with us, goes with us," which also explains

why they still have their clothes on.

  • The Island moves in space, not time. It has been been located in other places in the past. The crashed Beechcraft indicated this some time ago. Such a plane has a range measured in the hundreds of miles, not the more than 10,000 miles between West Africa and the Island in 2004. Once the Island changes location, some residents (Sawyer, Juliet, Daniel, et al.) become dislodged in time. Daniel knows the Island has had different locations in the past; he wants to "take a bearing" after they time travel with his sextant, an instrument used to determine latitude. Locke will probably discover this fact very soon as well; he has conveniently been given an instrument that "points north".
    • However a compass has no practical use in determining latitude...
  • What does this mean for the events following the initial discharge at the end of Season 2, in Live Together, Die Alone? That is obviously when the Island showed up on Penny's radar station, yet none of the other affects of 'moving through time' seem to have hapened then. It would seem that whatever protected the Others this time around protected everybody that time.

Constant

  • Since everyone on the island is experiencing the time travelling, everyone will eventually need to find their own constant. This is the reason why Locke said, "bad things" were happening on the island and the only way to prevent it is to have the oceanic 6 to come back.
  • A Constant is needed for people to remember things about their life. As far as we know, Sawyer and Juliet are well aware of where and who they are and how they got there.
  • As I stated above - the "constant" was needed for Desmond because only his consciousness was travelling through time. He needed something from his past and his present to stabilize it. The Losties are physically travelling through time, so far as we know.
    • Does not explain Charlotte.

Kate and the Lawyers

  • The client who hired the lawyers is Charles Widmore, who is trying to expose the Oceanic 6.
    • However, Sun says she thinks that they want this to remain covered up.
    • Widmore knows whats what. He doesn't have to "try" anything. He knows whats going on. He faked the crash for the sole purpose of no one knowing about where they were.
  • Sun is the client.
    • Something about Sun's demeanour and body language during her meeting with Kate suggested to me that she is lying to her. Perhaps Widmore did hire the lawyers to manipulate Kate in some way, and Sun got in touch with Kate because she has a role in the con as well. Then again, maybe Sun is secretly a double-agent, in reality working for Ben and manipulating Widmore.
      • I don't think it was Sun for the same reason I don't think sun really wants to kill Ben. How could she know Keamy had a heart monitor and that Ben killed Keamy? It happened when they were in the chopper and then flew away...unless Locke/Bentham told her in a visit...
  • The client is Ben, who was trying to scare Kate into going back.
    • The client is Ben trying to get Kate to run to Jack for help, or Jack himself. The camera focusing on the photo of Jack and Aaron is a clue.
      • The client is almost certainly Ben. Ben said he had a "few ideas" to convince Kate to go back, and what better way than threatening the perfect existence she has off island with Aaron. As Sun said, if the maternity issue was the main goal, the client would have gone public, its clearly an ulterior motive, which Ben is quite the master of. She'll go back to the island willingly to protect Aaron, which goes along perfectly with Ben's mastery of making someone do something and having them think it was their idea.
  • The client is Aaron from the future who, being special, suspects Kate is not his real mother.
    • There would be far more easier ways for a future Aaron to figure out who was his mother, rather than travelling to an arbitrary time when he was three and forcing a paternity suit upon his alleged mother. This idea just seems ridiculous.
      • Thanks for your useful contribution, but no need to pun :)
  • The client is Aaron's grandmother - Claire's mother.
    • But, as sun said, if maternity was the real goal for hiring lawyers, Claire's mom would be public about it. This is someone being sneaky, i.e. Sun, charles or Ben.
  • Charles Widmore is Dan Norton's client. The man whom Dan introduced to Kate as his associate was Aaron's father, Thomas. Reference these screencaps of the actor, Keir O'Donnell, as he appeared on Kate's stoop in Because You Left, and in the feature film After Sex. Thomas' paintings are displayed in Charles' homes in Flashes Before Your Eyes and The Shape of Things to Come, proving a connection between the men. Charles has moved Thomas into play in an attempt to thwart Ben's mission to return the Oceanic Six to The Island.
  • When Ben goes to the butcher, he asks if 2 men have checked in. The "lawyers" and court order may be fake. It is unusual to serve a warrent like that out of the blue (courts usually want both parties involved infront of them) and without a police escort seems very odd. It seems more like an attempt to dislodge Kate from her comfortable life and get her moving again leaving only the Island as safe haven. Classic Ben.
    • It's not a warrant. It's a court order. And I agree that it is highly unusual for the plaintiff's attorney to act as the process server.

Charlotte's Nosebleed

  • Charlotte is getting a nosebleed only when the Island goes back in time to the DHARMA period and the nosebleed is occuring because she's too close to her past self, possibly as an infant.
  • Everyone has time sickness but are travelling together somehow. It will only be so long till someone else starts bleeding. Alternately, Charlotte has less "constant-ness" with the island since she hasn't been around any landmarks/people there for very long, so she is sick/more sick/sick first. She was never at the hatch before it blew up. But what about Miles?
    • Miles will have more "constant-ness" if he is born on the Island and lived for quite a long time in childhood?
      • Could Miles be Pierre Chang's son?!
  • Horace Goodspeed had a nosebleed when Locke saw him in a dream building the cabin in "Cabin Fever". Horace said he was dead. Charlotte has jumped to a time when her present self has already died.
    • The nosebleed was showing how his body was when he died. He got the nosebleed from the gas that Ben released in the DHARMA bus
      • The gas released in the van only killed Roger (Workman) - Ben's Father. The remaining Others, including Horace, were killed in the village.
    • However, nosebleeds seem to signal death in many characters. Horace and the other Dharma workers were not the only ones to suffer nosebleeds as they died.
    • Didn't Minkowski have a nosebleed on the freighter right before he died? It seems like nosebleeds are a symptom of time-travel-related sickness, implying the person will die soon.
    • The rat Eloise had it too and Faraday said it was something to do with her brain and not having a constant.
  • The strain/confusion that they experience when they become unstuck in time causes them to have a Haemmorage and die.. thats what happened to Minkowski. The nose bleed is a sign of that. She is unstuck....
    • But isnt everyone else also unstuck? I hope they have lots of Dharma kleenix.
  • The problem with going along with the idea that her nosebleeds have some connection to being unstuck, is that in Minkowski's, Desmond's, and the even the mouse's case, their mind was moving back and forth in time. In that sense, when they move back and forth, they go back to where they were at that time. Desmond found himself back in the army a few years back, and then back on the boat. And when he moved through time, it just appeared to Sayid that he passed out. It's different now. The unstuck are just physically moving through time, now, but remain in the same position when there's a time shift. In essence, they are all aware of the change and they have people around them to confirm their beliefs. It's almost as if they are each other's constants.

Charlotte's Memory

  • Charlotte not being able to remember her mother's maiden name is caused by the same thing that was causing Daniel's memory problems mentioned briefly in Season 4. Presumably, this is a side effect of time travel, something that Daniel has apparently done a lot of.
    • Probably Daniel does not have memory problem, he just started to lose the consciousness in time and he got confused with where and when he "is" after lots of time travel.
      • How does this explain the memory loss Daniel clearly experienced (and subsequently commented on) with the deck of cards in "Eggtown"?

Juliet and the Hatch

  • After the losties jumped back to before the hatch blew up, Juliet seemed to know exactly where The Hatch was. However, as far as we know, Juliet could not have known where it was, as she did not know about it until after it had blown up. This would imply that she had been to the hatch before the plane crashed, which would mean there was a meeting between her and Desmond neither of them has said anything about.
    • When they time-jump back to before the hatch blew up, they are already there. Furthermore, she, nor anyone else, is losing their memories, so since she knows where the hatch is she can easily find it now, regardless of when they time-jump to. Their bodies and memories remain in current-time, they do not revert to the time period they jump to.
    • Not necessarily, we know Ben knew about The Pearl and The Flame (and took Juliet to both). It is safe to assume that Ben knew what was going on in The Swan and got that info to Juliet.
      • It's still odd she would be able to just walk over and immediately find it under a bunch of overgrown and dirt if she hadn't been there at least once before. During the time Desmond was there, it would seem as though it had been forgotten by the others, or at least not visited, yet she knew it's exact location even though it was buried.
        • They were just looking at where the hatch was. Of course she knows where it is supposed to be. The big hole is covered.
    • Couldn't she have just visited it off-camera during the time she spent at the camp? I think this is a bit picky. Im sure they also had lots of maps showing its location.

Who can stop the island from moving in time?

  • Locke-because he is the chosen one
  • Richard-because he seems to know everything about the island
    • Richard isnt the only one not moving. All the hostiles are staying in the same timeline. Ethan told Richard about where he saw Locke when he was pointing the gun at him, and the memory remained with Richard and he knew where to find Locke when he jumped back.
  • Ben-because he has to bring back the O6
  • The O6-returning to the island will stop this process
    • I like this line of thinking. Perhaps the time-jumping is the island's way of recognizing that some people who should have been on the island (the O6) are gone, and time-jumping is the island's way of looking for them. That could be why Ben and Locke claim that the O6 should not have left, because they knew this would be the result after turning the wheel.
    • The O6 are the Island's constants.
  • Desmond-because Faraday thinks he can save them somehow.
  • Whoever succeeds in preforming some critical task in the past
  • Mrs. Hawkings because she is the wizard behind everything!

Save the Island - Conflicting Directions?

To Save the Island, you must; a. According to Jacob, Locke is told he must move the Island. Ben knows what that means, as so makes it happen. b. According to Richard, Locke is told he must bring the O6 back.

    • But, hang on. On the way to the Orchid, Ben is handcuffed to the helicopter, so he knows there is a group of Losties trying to leave in the chopper. Perhaps he doubts they will escape the radius of the shift event. Or that they would not reach the freighter before it went up. He would assume the freighter would explode when he killed Keamy. So he might have thought the chopper escape was useless and they would fly back to the Island with no choice once the freighter sank. Before he moved the FDW.
    • Also, we have Desmond, Michael and Jin trying to dis-arm the bomb of the freighter, managing to delay it with super-cold nitrogen. It is delayed long enough for Desmond to get onto the chopper, and for Jin to almost make it. When the nitrogen runs out, Dr Shepard appears to Michael and tells him he can go now. Does this indicate the Island (represented by Shepard) held off the explosion on purpose, for the chopper to escape?
      • The O6 never should have made it to the frieghter because it should have blown up earlier. Des/Michael/Jin inadvertantly ruin that plan by delaying the explosion. As a result, the O6 reach outside the radius and escape. Ben, not having planned for the O6's escape, thought he would never get back to the island, but upon finding out about the O6, now realize that they will be his answer for getting back, as the island wants them back.
    • So did the Island let the O6 go, or not?
      • We now know that Desmond is special - does the Island need him alive? Was the only reason the O6 got away was that Desmond could return to the real world?
  • So now Richard says the O6 must come back. To bring back balance?
    • Yes, they never should have left. But saving the island from the outside world was the first priority. If O6 had stayed put this never would have happened.
  • Also, the dead people and off-island visions are giving conflicting directions to the O6. Christian Shepherd and Charlie are saying to go back, while Claire is telling Kate to not bring Aaron back.
    • Claire did not mention Aaron to Kate; she said, "Don't bring him back."
      • Definitely - the him could just as easily be referencing someone besides Aaron, like Bentham/Locke. It would, like the basis of the show so far, depend on your frame of reference.
        • Or Claire's "him" could be reference to Ben or Widmore, as is seems Sun has allied herself with Widmore.
        • Since the O6 and Locke have to go back to save the island, it is unlikely she means either of Locke or Aaron. It seems more likely she means Ben or Widmore since they have both been exiled.
          • We don't know that Locke and the O6 have to go back to save the island, just that they have to go back 1) to save the others left behind, and 2) to help Ben get back to the island (it's his hidden agenda).
            • Richard told Locke that (in order to save the island) Locke needed to get all the people who left, to come back. There is little ambiguity in his statement.
Community content is available under CC BY-NC-ND unless otherwise noted.