Changes: Adam and Eve/Theories

Latest revision as of 11:03, 9 June 2013

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Theories about
Adam and Eve

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They drifted apart during the centuries due to nature and/or other Island inhabitants noticing the bodies. Jacob placed them side-by-side again in the three years after Jack & Kate found them and before Jack & Hurley arrived at the Caves.

He would presumably visit them on occassion, as they were his family.

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 {{Theorytabtop}}
+[[File:6x15_OriginOfAdamAndEve.jpg|thumb|left|150px]]They drifted apart during the centuries due to nature and/or other [[Island]] inhabitants noticing the bodies.  [[Jacob]] placed them side-by-side again in the three years after [[Jack]] & [[Kate]] found them and before [[Jack]] & [[Hurley]] arrived at the [[Caves]].
+He would presumably visit them on occassion, as they were his family.
-==The Stones==
-* The black and white are a reference to yin and yang. This ties into the online theories of "twinness" that [[Rousseau]] proposed. This also relates to [[Boone]]'s t-shirt (84), and the original status of Adam and Eve as created from a whole (if Eve was created from Adam's rib, then together they constitute a whole. Apart, like yin and yang, two complementary parts of one). The yin and yang symbol can also be seen in the [[Hanso Foundation]] logo.
-**Boone's t-shirt means "18 plates." Hardly a reference to black & white
-* The two people died in a suicide pact, and used the stones to determine who would kill the other first, like drawing straws.
-*The stones are just being used as a plot device to give conclusive proof of who the skeletons are; the skeletons belong to whoever has the stones last at the end of the show.
-*In the second pilot episode Locke is talking to Walt about backgammon and how it's the oldest game, 5,000 years old. As Locke is explaining to Walt how to play he says "two players, two sides, one is light, one is dark." He holds up a black and white playing piece or stone, and it made me think of the black and white stone found in Adam and Eve's pocket. We know there's going to be some sort of a war, is it possible the pieces found on Adam and Eve are somehow related to backgammon? To the war?
-Also, people are always throwing out their opinions of who they think Adam and Eve really are. Has anyone thought that maybe Adam and Even may actually be the real Adam and Eve? That would be something, so obvious! That the island is the Garden of Eden, and this is how the whole Jacob and the twelve tribes (which has been previously theorized) relates.  It would be pretty hackneyed of the show creators to go into taking the Bible literally.  Even if you do, bodies definitely decay after millions of years.
-*Adam died just over 5000 years ago and his bones were totally obliterated in a world wide flood 700 years later.
-*Producers have already stated Adam and Eve are not the Biblical figures, from [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQlM9tIuXsA Sky1 interview]
-*The stones are evidence of a lottery--a group of people need to "draw straws" in order to decide who will perform some dangerous task that is likely to be deadly.  This task may involve the [[Incident]] and detonating [[Jughead]]. The person who drew the black stone was the one who must risk his or her life, and the person who drew the white stone decided to accompany the other despite the clear danger.  Also, the black stone is an allusion to the [[Black Rock]].
-*Urim and Thummim are two stones, one black and one white, used for making decisions, with black representing "yes" and white representing "no". From Israelite religion and culture, the stones are consistent with the "Adam and Eve" analogy. In the novel "The Alchemist" by Paolo Coelho, the shepherd boy puts Urim and Thummim in a pouch and "from then on, he would make his own decisions."
-*The colours of the two stones are significant, as the skeletons are [[Rose]] and [[Bernard]]. The two of them stated that they did not care if they died, as long as they were together ("[[The Incident, Parts 1 & 2]]"), and the two skeletons being found together would be their wish coming true. The two may have died as a result of The Incident, which sped up their decomposition, throwing the estimation of the time of the skeletons' death in season one off.
-**Jack's estimate of decomposition taking forty years was just an estimate. Rose and Bernard died in 1977, making the corpses almost thirty years old when Jack found them. Jack's forty year statement doesn't defeat this theory. They needn't have their decomposition "sped up" to make this viable. They may have been originally meant to die in the nineteen-fifties or -sixties when they planned it in Season 1, but it was always meant to be Rose and Bernard.
-**If the remains do belong to [[Rose]] and [[Bernard]], then that would mean they were somehow unstuck in time and '77 became real time for them. Otherwise, the rest of the Losties would have aged 30+ years upon their return from '77. Unless new phsyics is being introduced, then regardless of their state the bodies of[[Rose]] and [[Bernard]] were unstuck in time and would have returned to '07 with the others in the same condition.
-***Not necessarily, perhaps only those near the atomic explosion during the Incident (Kate, Sawyer, and the rest) were transported back to the future. There is no evidence that any of the other 815 survivors made it back to '07, for all we know they're all dead, including Bernard and Rose.
-***Also consider that the stones were black & white and Rose & Bernard are what color people, Black & White...coincidence, I think not...
-*Adam and Eve are Jack and Kate.  Jack takes the stones and we don't see him giving them to anyone ever, so we can only assume that he still has them when he dies.  In ("[[House of the Rising Sun]]") Kate also says "I don't wanna be Eve."  Some less than subtle foreshadowing.
-**'''counterpoint''': First of all, it seems highly unlikely that Jack would hold onto those stones for months, bring them off the Island when he was rescued, hold onto them for THREE YEARS in the "real world," and then bring them back to the Island when he returned. What significance could those stones possibly have that would make him do that? Second of all, if Jack got the stones off his own dead body, and then held onto them until he died (thus becoming that same dead body), then where did the stones come from to begin with? The producers are already doing a "chicken & egg" paradox with Locke & Richard's compass, so it seems unlikely that they would do it with those stones as well.
-***'''counterpoint to the counterpoint''': Jack and Kate are also the first two people we see in the first episode, and could be considered the "Adam and Eve" of the show on the island. Plus, only Kate saw the black and white stones with Jack, and neither one mentioned them to anyone else, which shows that they thought there was something to them that they didn't want to share with anyone. That in itself would be reason for Jack to hold onto the stones and bring them back to the island with him. If they didn't seem significant to either of them, why wouldn't they just share that information with everyone else?
-*The stones not only signify Rose and Bernard but are a marker for Jack.  Jack finds the stones and doesn't show them to anyone.  In the timeline from season 6, Rose and Bernard do die 40 to 50 years prior and Jack lays them to rest.
-*The black and white stones resemble the same stones that were found on the scale in Jacob's cave on the side of the cliff. FLocke throws the white stone into the water and mentions the stones to Sawyer as an inside joke. Could the Adam & Eve bodies be the original bodies of Jacob and MIB? Or Bodies they have used in the past?
-*"Exo 28:30  And you shall put in the breastplate of judgment the Urim and the Thummim, and they shall be over Aaron's heart when he goes in before the Lord. So Aaron shall bear the judgment of the children of Israel over his heart before the Lord continually."<br><br>The breastplate of judgment had a pocket that held the Urim and the Thummin, they are said to be one black and one white. The High Priest was the only one who wore these.  Perhaps Jack taking the pouch with the stones represents passing on the office of the islands "High Priest".
-==Miscellaneous==
-* Interestingly, there is an apocryphal book of the New Testament, written in Syria in the 4th cent., called "The Cave of Treasures." The book chronicles the "first 5,500 years" of human history and describes how, upon banishment from Eden, Adam and Eve settled in a cave. It is in this cave that they begin to sire the "good people" that make up the human race. Meanwhile, the exiled Cain, is starting his own extended family in the valley below. These are the "bad people," who engage in all sorts of wickedness. The conflict between these two groups comprises most of the first "2,000" years.
-*"Only fools are enslaved by time and space" may just simply refer to the Gnostic Christian concept that original sin is the ignorance or denial of our true spiritual selves; the original sin of Adam and Eve being descent into materiality, including ideas of reincarnation (rep. by time-jumps) and the attainment of immortality. The two skeletons could possibly be Adam and Eve. The DI might want to control time to go back and reverse the effects of original sin.
-*Simply, Stephen Hawking Book in "Not in Portland" = Ellie Hawking; Widmore Pregnancy Test in "Not in Portland" = Charles Widmore; Season 6: They will have to die before Ellie is pregnant with Daniel because we're told the corpses are over 40 to 50 years old, dating it back to the 50s when the hydrogen bomb was first brought to the island.  It will be that the bomb must go off then in order to change everything "what happened".  1977 was too late because in order to change what happened, you must go BEFORE the original event occured, it must be stopped at conception (just like others can't be born at conception after the bomb goes off in 1977).  Ergo, Daniel must not be born and Ellie and Charles must never get off the island. (Note the concept of egg: A Brief History of Time is a book about the beginning of the universe; The pregnancy test is the result of a fertilized egg.)
-==Last appearance of Adam and Eve in the series==
-When the producers stated that the mystery of the skeletons in the cave would be "solved" in season 6, they thought about the events of [[The Lighthouse]]. In this episode the mystery is kind of solved. Here some arguments:
-*Now that we have seen the cave again, it is almost certain we wil not see the cave ever again in later episodes. Mainly because it is the FINAL season. So the things we have seen in the cave in this episode are probably the last things we will see of it. The writers expect us to have figured out what the answer behind the mystery is.
-*Hurley's quote 'It could be us if we stayed in the 70's', makes it likely they ARE people they know.
-*Rose and Bernard lived at least from 1974 to 1977 in the jungle. They are likely to go to places like the caves.
-*It is very likely that Rose and Bernard did not time travel to 2007. Firstly, because they were not at the site where the explosion took place and secondly because they are probably not need for Jacob's plan.
-**If this was true, then there was no need for them to travel back to 1974. They would have stayed in 2004 like Claire did.
-*** True, why would they go to 1974 and time travel in the first place if they had no purpose, they simply traveled wherever the other time travellers went, they still want to remain alone and live there life, they are in the jungle doing so.
-**True.  If Claire is around, hiding in the bushes and evading the Others, there is no reason to suspect that Rose and Bernard are not doing the same.
-**Also, the black and white stones hint that Adam and Eve were part of something greater. The likelihood of Rose and Bernard carrying these stones is extremely unlikely.
-**Even if they did remain in 1977, and lived out there lives, they surely wony die days after the bom went off, Danielle survived 16 years alone in the jungle, Rose and Bernard have each-other, and may have lived at least 20 to 30 years. The bodies in the caves, dont look like deceased people of about 10 to 20 years tops.
-==Identity==
-{| class="wikitable" style="font-size:90%;  text-align:left; width: 98%; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;" border="1px solid #000000;-moz-border-radius:10px;"
-|-
-! style="width: 23%;" | Character(s)
-! style="width: 42%;" | Reasoning
-|-
-! Descendants from the [[Black Rock]].
-| Descendants from the [[Black Rock]] who died on island.
-|-
-!Jack and Kate
-| [[Jack]] and [[Kate]] never return to the Island in their own time.They live out the rest of their lives in the caves, and are laid to rest there by The Hostiles when they arrive. [[Jack]] and [[Kate]] are the first people we see on the Island in the very first episode of the show.  Jack first, and then Kate finds in the jungle and helps him with his injury, a cut on his ribs, all of which is a reference to the biblical Adam and Eve.
-|-
-!Gerald and Karin DeGroot
-| [[Gerald]] and [[Karen DeGroot|Karen]] are the founders of the [[DHARMA Initiative]].
-|-
-!Rose and Bernard Nadler
-| Rose and Bernard are planning to stay on the island. The beads signify their races: one black, one white.
-Also,the producers promised an anagram in the episode NOT IN PORTLAND as a clue to that mystery. "Only fools are enslaved by time and space" (of the room 23 video) can be re-arranged to form the phrase: "bones of Nadlers may lay lost deep in cave". Rose and Bernard skipped with many of the other 815ers back to the 1970s, where they lived alone in the jungle with Vincent, independent of DHARMA or the Hostiles.  Rose told Jack that she and Bernard were "retired," and no longer interested in pursuing adventures.  It is possible they remained on the Island in the 1970s, eventually dying or being laid to rest in the caves.  Even if less than 40-50 years passed since their deaths, as Jack had postulated, their bodies would be plenty decomposed by the time they were discovered in 2004. Bernard and Rose may be the two characters who help Jacob to win the argument of the goodness in humanity, as foreshadowed by the sentiments they expressed in the finale. This explains the significance of the skeletons.
-|-
-![[Aaron]] and [[Ji Yeon Kwon]]
-| If the island moved back in time then the Oceanic 6 and anyone else will need to go back to that point in time. Aaron and Ji Yeon will grow up on the island but in the past. Because time course corrects there was never any direct evidence of the Oceanic 6 to be found by anyone on the island in seasons 1-4 (ranging from the castaways themselves, [[the Others]], [[the Kahana|the Freighties]], [[tail section survivors|the Tailies]], [[DHARMA Initiative]], [[Danielle]]'s [[science expedition]], [[Desmond]][[Elizabeth (sailboat)|'s arrival]] etc). Claire's dream way back in season one about Aaron's crib and Locke having one white eye and one black references this fate for Aaron. Aaron and Ji Yeon were both born under special circumstances. Aaron was conceived off the island but born on the island. Ji Yeon was conceived on the island but born off the island.  In {{ep|5x02}}, Sun comments that it would be nice if Aaron and Ji Yeon could play together.
-|-
-![[Jin]] and [[Sun]]
-|
-#The episode when the caves, as well as Adam and Eve are introduced is "House of the Rising Sun." If Sun is Eve then the Cave would be the "House" of her "rising" (dead/dying) body. Most of the episode titles are significant, but they are usually somewhere in the dialogue or very clear cut if not. This title is more abstract and the only one that I was never sure how exactly it applied to the episode. In the flashbacks, Sun did attempt to "rise up," but ended up not leaving Jin.
-#The episode is Sun/Jin Centric and shows their wedding (how they started), and them in the caves as Adam and Eve (how they end). Jin also told Sun "you complete me" or "you make me whole" at some point, which could be symbolic of the yin and the yang (black/white).
-#It appears that Jin may end up with MIB (black team) and Sun on Jacobs team, (white team) although I doubt it would be by choice. They will both end up dying and they will be put to rest together since they will most likely have Lost their lives "playing this game." Somewhat of a consolation for keeping them apart for the greater good when all they wanted was to be together.
-#Sun and Jin had essentially dedicated their lives to finding eachother when they were separated. They never gave up on eachother, and Sun even left her own child to get back to Jin.
-#From the producers perspective, it would be kind of ironic for people to rewatch the show after seeing the end, and seeing that the answer was right in front of them.
-|-
-!Daniel and Charlotte
-|At one of the points where The Island is skipping through time, Charlotte dies when Daniel is alone with her.  The next time Daniel is seen is the following episode and explains to the rest that Charlotte disappeared in a time flash, although this was never shown on camera.  During this time, Daniel could have been moving Charlotte's body to the caves.  Similarly, when Daniel is shot by his mother, she is reading his journal and seems intent to ensure his death was not in vain.  It's possible that in his journal, he has recorded both his love for Charlotte and where he laid her to rest, leaving his mother to fill in the gaps and lay them to rest together.  Lastly, Damon and Carlton said that Adam and Eve would be one of the clearest indications that they knew where the show was going from the start and having Adam and Eve being two characters who were introduced in Season Four would be a good way to show this.
-|-
-!Bernard and Rose
-|During the course of season five we learn Bernard and Rose have been living in the jungle in a self-made cabin for the past three years. They expressed that they were happy living peacefully on their own, away from the violence and drama that the other survivors had always been involved with. Bernard, with an unkempt appearance, appeared much more relaxed than his former anxious self. Perhaps at one point they decided they'd return to the caves and spend the rest of their days there.
-|-
-!Two survivors of Flight 815
-|We can now presume that the majority of the survivors of Flight 815 were killed in 1954 by the Others. Two survivors headed for the caves, since their geography of the island is limited. However, the 1954 Others tracked them down and killed them, laying them to rest at the Caves. They obtained the black and white stones after rummaging through Jack's stuff before the flashes occured (or during, when they were flashing in the future and their camp reappeared to them).
-|-
-!Jack and woman character
-|The events leading up to Jack's presumed death are unimportant with regard to these stones. The importance is that Jack takes the stones from his dead body, again and again and again. This theory nulls the free-will concept, as it states that Jack is destined to take the stones from his own corpse, and die with them in his pocket in the past, and when 2004 rolls around again, his living self continues the actions. The stones themselves have no meaning other than being a marker. The woman character is probably Kate, for predictable reasons that their relationship ebbs and flows through the series.
-|-
-!The Man in Black and his lover
-|In the Substitute the Man in Black claimed to "know what it's like to lose a loved one."  Also, since his mortal body is dead, that's why he can only take the form of dead people and not his own form.
-|-
-!The Man in Black and Jacob
-|They have the Black and White Rocks because that is how they decided what roles they would play. They have not decomposed so quickly because the island has the fountain of youth properties even on decaying bodies.
-|-
-!Zach and Emma
-|They're another male/female pair on the island that has been around since early in the show (season 2). As [[Others]] they have a special connection to the Island, and they've been "chosen" for some reason.
-|-
-!Sawyer and Kate
-| [[Sawyer]] and [[Kate]] can't return back to the real world due to their criminal histories. Given their previous relationship history, the two will most likely decide to stay on the island together if rescue does come to avoid returning to lives as fugitives. By choosing to stay on the [[Island]], they become its protectors and are transported back in time to live out the rest of their days.
-|-
-!Desmond and Penny
-| [[Desmond]] and [[Penny]] are brought back to the island in Season 6, perhaps in Charles Widmore's submarine.  Something happens and they are transported back in time and end up in the cave.
-|-
 {{Nav-MysteriesTheories}}
 [[ru:Адам и Ева/Theories]]